3D Is Not Dead. It's Awesome. - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 192 Old 09-26-2016, 07:57 PM
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Crosstalk is a timing issue. The reason it's a timing issue is that with LCD's they have a slower pixel response time. DLP is basically instant so it doesn't happen, at least in theory. But proximity in my case causes crosstalk due to the LCD shutters close proximity to the screen so crosstalk can still happen. I went and figured worst to best at one point awhile back.

I think it went:

Active LCD, Passive LCD, Plasma Active, DLP.

However, there are other factors, including content that can make crosstalk more prevalent.

Number one cause is the angle and distance to the screen. A bad seating position can make any of the 3D displays really awful for 3D, even DLP. Passive can be pretty bad if you're not seated dead center in the screen, too high, low, to the side or too close and you have crosstalk.

Content. It's the high contrast scenes with wider parallax that cause crosstalk the most. I have even seen it on my DLP PJ, so DLP isn't technically crosstalk free. However, when I do see crosstalk it is because of the distance to screen which I believe is a problem with the LCD shutters in relation to screen position. When you have a 140" screen and you're seated only 11 feet away plus bright images that have wide disparity there's some light leakage at times as the LCD in the glasses are just too close and don't perform as well as further back. When I moved to approx. 14 ft, the crosstalk went away in those scenes.

I noticed this most recently throughout Batman V. Superman, in the Daily Planet scenes, heavy crosstalk on my DLP BenQ 1070 and a few other scenes. And if I can see it on my DLP PJ, I'm sure it's even worse on a passive screen.

What they can do to fix this is lower the brightness in those scenes while also toning down the amount of parallax. This shouldn't be a problem with any converted movie, native movies it could be an issue since parallax is burned in at filming. I would say the wider parallax is the most common cause more than brightness, just because when I produce my own content in 3D I will notice it, even in lower contrasting images. Comfortable parallax is probably the most important aspect to 3D. High contrasting images will make it worse, but if the disparity is closer, it's less likely to leak from one eye to the other across all types of displays.

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post #182 of 192 Old 09-28-2016, 11:17 AM
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I agree that content can challenge a display's ability to handle cross-talk -- In other words "difficult" content will reveal the flaws of a display device. I have yet to see any "ghosting" with my Sharp or Mits DLP projectors. The Epson projectors ((6010, 6020 and LS-10000) show a fair bit of ghosting (particularly background ghosting) while the latest JVCs are very good and show very little ghosting. The IMAX 3D film, Giants of Patagonia, is a great test for how a display deals with potential "ghosting" -- no problem for my DLP projectors; however, it is a problem for the LCD projectors.
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post #183 of 192 Old 10-03-2016, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I agree that content can challenge a display's ability to handle cross-talk -- In other words "difficult" content will reveal the flaws of a display device. I have yet to see any "ghosting" with my Sharp or Mits DLP projectors. The Epson projectors ((6010, 6020 and LS-10000) show a fair bit of ghosting (particularly background ghosting) while the latest JVCs are very good and show very little ghosting. The IMAX 3D film, Giants of Patagonia, is a great test for how a display deals with potential "ghosting" -- no problem for my DLP projectors; however, it is a problem for the LCD projectors.
Does the same problem happen with SXRD projectors?
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post #184 of 192 Old 10-04-2016, 10:11 PM
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Avid 3D user here. I admit I was a skeptic of in-home 3D a couple years ago, though I enjoyed it very much in the theaters. Then I started gaming on PC with 3D-Vision. Mind-blowing. My current television is a Sony XBR 900A and the 3D from Blu-ray is simply amazing. I probably have over 60 3D blu ray movies by now.

I started also buying 4K movies, but whenever I have an option of buying UHD vs 3D, 3D wins without hesitation.
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post #185 of 192 Old 10-08-2016, 01:25 PM
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Are there still new TVs for sale that offer 3D?
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post #186 of 192 Old 10-08-2016, 01:26 PM
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Are there still new TVs for sale that offer 3D?
(And hopefully this is the right place to ask that. I only ask because I heard there weren't any and just wondering if I have to get a projector or if I can still do a TV. Thanks!)
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post #187 of 192 Old 10-08-2016, 08:30 PM
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LG 55UH8500 (also available in larger screen sizes) still supports passive 3D.
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post #188 of 192 Old 10-08-2016, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
I noticed this most recently throughout Batman V. Superman, in the Daily Planet scenes, heavy crosstalk on my DLP BenQ 1070 and a few other scenes. And if I can see it on my DLP PJ, I'm sure it's even worse on a passive screen.

What they can do to fix this is lower the brightness in those scenes while also toning down the amount of parallax. This shouldn't be a problem with any converted movie, native movies it could be an issue since parallax is burned in at filming. I would say the wider parallax is the most common cause more than brightness, just because when I produce my own content in 3D I will notice it, even in lower contrasting images. Comfortable parallax is probably the most important aspect to 3D. High contrasting images will make it worse, but if the disparity is closer, it's less likely to leak from one eye to the other across all types of displays.
I haven't seen anyone else make the following type of comment regarding High Dynamic Range and 3D, so I will make it.

I believe that an important contributing factor in the decision by manufacturers to reduce the number of new TV models offering 3D, and why the new Blu-ray UHD format doesn't offer a UHD 3D mode, would be that a technological breakthrough is needed to keep cross-talk low enough for high dynamic range displays. Where active glasses are used, an increase in alternation rate (beyond 120Hz) is desirable with HDR displays to avoid flicker [and noticeable sync offset between Left and Right].

  • When Avatar came out in public cinemas, RealD projectors used in the cinemas provided adequate but not outstanding brightness. Visible cross-talk for cinema-goers using passive circularly polarized glasses was negligible.
  • When LG released Full HD displays, with passive 3D of 540 lines for Left and 540 lines for Right, brightness was good and provided you watched from the right vertical viewing angle, cross-talk was acceptable. At close viewing distances a pattern of horizontal black lines became visible.
  • For the 4K passive 3D sets that first came on the market, 3D brightness was good, and even at close viewing distances the pattern of horizontal black lines was barely if at all visible.


However the latest crop of 4K displays present a problem for 3D because if they are operated in HDR mode the brightest parts of a frame can be very bright indeed. If active 3D is used, then the eyes can be presented with a noticeable flicker if the glasses operate at only 120Hz. And if passive 3D glasses are used, cross-talk will be unavoidable if a small very bright object is shown in the foreground against a dark background.

If these issues can be overcome (perhaps with OLED screens with their very fast transition times, combined with active glasses operating with fast (144Hz plus) alternation rates), we might be offered a new wave of high performance 3D screens.
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post #189 of 192 Old 10-11-2016, 12:23 AM
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Samsung F8500 here...watched the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles CGI 3D the other day on it and WOW, best 3D image I've seen for a disc yet!
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post #190 of 192 Old 11-06-2016, 05:14 PM
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3D Is Not Dead... For Me!

3D Is Not Dead... For Me!

This week I will buying a LG OLED55C6P with Free Samsung UBD-K8500. I own 2 other 3DTVs, 3D Fujitsu AH572 Notebook, FujiFilm Finepix 3D Camera and still have a HTC 3D Cell Phone. Oh did I mention 175+ 3D Blu-rays Movies!
PS. I make sure I watch HBO 3D movies (15 listed now) and hope they don't go the route Starz did!

Still waiting for Ultra-D...

JohnnyJT
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post #191 of 192 Old 11-12-2016, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjt View Post
This week I will buying a LG OLED55C6P with Free Samsung UBD-K8500. I own 2 other 3DTVs, 3D Fujitsu AH572 Notebook, FujiFilm Finepix 3D Camera and still have a HTC 3D Cell Phone.
Glad to hear so many people are still enjoying optical stereo. johnny, you peaked my interest with that Camera but it's way too expensive at nearly $400. I have a 3D feature on my Sony HX50V but it's faux 3-D with only 1 lense.
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post #192 of 192 Old 11-13-2016, 06:44 AM
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I picked up a 2015 model UHD 3D television a few weeks ago to replace my aging, but still fully functional Mitsubishi LaserVue of the same size.

Samsung's UN75JU7100 to be specific.

The improved definition is amazing, and I never thought the colors could get any better than my laser-lit DLP, but they are brilliant! Not "SUHD", and lacking in full HDR support, but a solid performer at the price.

3D is great on this set, but not quite as ghost free as my DLP (the ghosting very, very slight. Imperceptible to my family, but I can notice it on occasion).

The televisions are still on sale at Best Buy and Amazon for just under $2,600.

Samsung UN75JU7100 75-Inch 4K Ultra HD 3D Smart LED TV (2015 Model) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00T48CW2I..._1Jhkyb31GVVEE
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