3D Is Not Dead. It's Awesome. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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3D is Not Dead. It's Awesome.

Today I offer my apologies for prematurely eulogizing 3D. A few months ago, I published a post titled "3D for TV is Dead" and while it's true that fewer current-model TVs support the feature than was the case in recent years, that does not mean 3D itself is dead.

In the aforementioned article, I wrote that "Personally, I’ll take the superior color and contrast–not to mention the glasses-free viewing experience–of a 2D HDR presentation. It’s funny, two or three years ago I couldn’t get enough 3D. Now, I actively avoid it." There's nothing quite like setting yourself up for a mea culpa.

What I failed to appreciate when I wrote that was that every 3D experience I have had paled in comparison to what you get with active-shutter glasses and modern DLP projection. More to the point, once I installed a decent 3D-capable projector and a suitable screen, I realized that front-projected, cinematic 3D at home is incredible.

It's only been a couple of weeks since I hung a 120-inch Stewart FilmScreen StudioTek 130 in my studio, which I paired with a BenQ HT4050 single-chip DLP projector that I have in for review. I'll get into the specifics of the projector's performance in a dedicated review that's coming soon. What I wanted to express immediately was how shockingly good Sin City: A Dame to Kill For looked in 3D when I watched it last night. It was absolutely amazing, with depth and clarity that easily beat any passive 3D system I have seen in terms of contrast, brightness, fidelity, depth, lack of ghosting artifacts—you name it. I even found the active-shutter glasses to be an advantage when used with projection, since they make blacks look super-dark.

As CEDIA approaches—I'm headed to Dallas in exactly one week—I'll have my eye on home-cinema projectors. After several years of living a TV-only lifestyle, I'm getting back into front-projection—which is the experience that got me to join AVS Forum in the first place. Today's projectors offer amazing performance for the dollar, and DLP models are specifically spectacular at making the most of 3D.

The good news is that directors keep making films in 3D and are getting better at it. For example, I look forward to the November 15 release of Star Wars: The Force Awakes on 3D Blu-ray. Going forward, I promise to include 3D performance in my reviews of any projectors and TVs that support it. Now that I've seen how truly great it can look, I'm hooked again. Better late than never, right?

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post #2 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:31 AM
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I have often commented on the peripheral vision need for 3D. I own a LG LV9500 55 inch active 3d TV with the lack of wide viewing, it takes away the full effect of 3D.
I do not have the room for a projector or the money for a very large TV. I remember some of the comments of the first 84 inch LG 4K and how the owners stated, that with 4K passive 3D looked really good. I think the size of the TV also helped with 3D effect.
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post #3 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:34 AM
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It makes perfect sense that one's enjoyment of a 3D presentation should rely heavily on the quality of it. New LG OLED televisions offer a very enjoyable passive 3D experience.

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post #4 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 6athome View Post
I have often commented on the peripheral vision need for 3D. I own a LG LV9500 55 inch active 3d TV with the lack of wide viewing, it takes away the full effect of 3D.
I do not have the room for a projector or the money for a very large TV. I remember some of the comments of the first 84 inch LG 4K and how the owners stated, that with 4K passive 3D looked really good. I think the size of the TV also helped with 3D effect.
The size of the image makes a more significant difference than I had anticipated. I have heard that 4K passive looks great on TVs, and especially so on LG's OLEDs. But, I also think the bigger the screen, the better.
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post #5 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:36 AM
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I just re-watched Gravity in 3D on my Mits HC7900dw projector and it was just outstanding with the inky blacks of space. I had become disenchanted with 3D on this projector as the bulb was exceeding 3000 hrs, but I just replaced it recently and have been getting back into the 3D. I bumped the 3D slider on my pany BR player to the max when I played Gravity and it far exceeded my disappointing 3D viewing at an IMAX a few years ago.
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post #6 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:42 AM
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3D done right is amazing. I have a Sony X900A, and it has some of the best passive 3D I have ever experienced. Another excellent movie to check out in 3D, if you have not already, is Pacific Rim.
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post #7 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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3D done right is amazing. I have a Sony X900A, and it has some of the best passive 3D I have ever experienced. Another excellent movie to check out in 3D, if you have not already, is Pacific Rim.
I had a Vizio with passive 3D some years ago, it looked great except for the loss in vertical resolution. In a way, it spoiled me (just a little bit). I know 4K passive 3D looks great, I briefly say it on an LG OLED and it's a "wow." But my recent viewing experience was on a whole another level, and with a sub-$1500 projector to boot.
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post #8 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:50 AM
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Yes, active DLP 3d at home has long been amazing. I have however noticed that some theater projection technologies are starting to at least equal what I get at home.
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post #9 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 06:59 AM
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But there are only 4 people in the theater photo.
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post #10 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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But there are only 4 people in the theater photo.
Professional models are expensive!
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post #11 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, active DLP 3d at home has long been amazing. I have however noticed that some theater projection technologies are starting to at least equal what I get at home.
I hope so! Looking forward to having a next-generation theatrical 3D experience by the time Avatar 2 comes around.

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post #12 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:14 AM
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If they can improve the glasses allowing minimal light and color degradation, I would watch 3D.
The other thing is, it seems like the movies are mostly optimized for TVs so when you blow it up to 120 inch, the depth is a bit weird like people in the picture have very flat heads.
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post #13 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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If they can improve the glasses allowing minimal light and color degradation, I would watch 3D.
The other thing is, it seems like the movies are mostly optimized for TVs so when you blow it up to 120 inch, the depth is a bit weird like people in the picture have very flat heads.
If we're talking about a movie, then there's little likelihood the director is thinking about what it'll look like on a TV. What you describe sounds like a bad 2D to 3D conversion that might not be so noticeable on a TV, but is obvious when projected.

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The size of the image makes a more significant difference than I had anticipated. I have heard that 4K passive looks great on TVs, and especially so on LG's OLEDs. But, I also think the bigger the screen, the better.
Mark, I believe the 4050 has frame interpolation in 3D mode. Try that, even if you hate FI normally.

Higher frame rates make a massive difference in the quality of the 3D effect. Everything just looks more "solid" and believable. It really turns up the dial on 3D to 11.
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Mark, I believe the 4050 has frame interpolation in 3D mode. Try that, even if you hate FI normally.

Higher frame rates make a massive difference in the quality of the 3D effect. Everything just looks more "solid" and believable. It really turns up the dial on 3D to 11.
It does, I'll give it shot. Thanks for the tip.

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post #16 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:28 AM
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I just hope eventually we get affordable 4k HDR laser projectors with active 3D for full 4k resolution, along with 3D HDR UHD Blu-rays. But then I'd never go to an actual movie theater...
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post #17 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:29 AM
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Exactly what I've been saying all along

What a debate that original thread started, I personally had to leave the thread, it got a little to excited for my tastes. What you are saying is exactly what I was trying to convey.
3D requires the right environment and the correct equipment in order to experience it in a way the producer intended. 3D for TV on the other hand is a novelty, the viewer
experience was never good enough to support a following that would keep it mainstream. So I agreed 3D for TV was dead. Well, not dead, just on the back burner, so-to-speak.

With my new JVC RS600 the contrast takes 3D to another elevated level and I ,like yourself ,had lost interest. Loved 3D, even set up my theater maximizing the environment to make
it work. My new JVC RS600 my 136" curved screen ( Draper Techvision 1.8 gain XT1800 material) the anamorphic lens and bat cave is what makes this incredible. Shutter glasses
that are OEM specified ( others are not ideal) with large ear pieces to block stray side light and all is good. Glasses still a pain in the assets but that is my only gripe.

Recommend Jupiter Ascending , The Great Gatsby or Prometheus 3D, all spectacular.
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post #18 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsong View Post
If they can improve the glasses allowing minimal light and color degradation, I would watch 3D.
The other thing is, it seems like the movies are mostly optimized for TVs so when you blow it up to 120 inch, the depth is a bit weird like people in the picture have very flat heads.
I love the performance I get off my active 3D Sony projector but the glasses are just too small and too heavy. I do almost all my 3D watching on my OLED because the glasses are light and comfortable.
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post #19 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:41 AM
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I just want a "VR" headset that I can jack into my 3D Blu-ray player and then adjust the image size to my personal immersion preference. Is that too much to ask?
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post #20 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I just want a "VR" headset that I can jack into my 3D Blu-ray player and then adjust the image size to my personal immersion preference. Is that too much to ask?
Nope, not at all. But, I'd like that VR to be free of the "screen door effect," that's my number-one complaint about the current state of VR tech.

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post #21 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
If we're talking about a movie, then there's little likelihood the director is thinking about what it'll look like on a TV. What you describe sounds like a bad 2D to 3D conversion that might not be so noticeable on a TV, but is obvious when projected.
You can do your own experiment moving closer or further away from the screen when watching a 3D movie. The objects get shallower when you are closer.
I think it's a perspective thing. When things are further away, they become more flat which is fine when viewed on a TV because it's small and further away. When you blow it up to 120 inch at 11 ft, it gets weird.
The problem is 3D movies only have two frames so you can't adjust object depth separately. You can bring it froward or push it back but the objects stay the same flatness.
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post #22 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:46 AM
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I love the performance I get off my active 3D Sony projector but the glasses are just too small and too heavy. I do almost all my 3D watching on my OLED because the glasses are light and comfortable.
My Samsung active 3D glasses works fine on my Epson projector.
You sure you can't use other glasses with the projector?
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post #23 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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You can do your own experiment moving closer or further away from the screen when watching a 3D movie. The objects get shallower when you are closer.
I think it's a perspective thing. When things are further away, they become more flat which is fine when viewed on a TV because it's small and further away. When you blow it up to 120 inch at 11 ft, it gets weird.
The problem is 3D movies only have two frames so you can't adjust object depth separately. You can bring it froward or push it back but the objects stay the same flatness.
It wasn't weird in the slightest when I was watching 3D with approximately that viewing angle this past weekend. Indeed, that experience is what inspired me to write this post. Are you sure your source doesn't have a screen-size setting for 3D that might be causing this?

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post #24 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:48 AM
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I sit 11 feet from a 140" screen, I use the modest but impressive Benq 1070 ($700), aside from a drop in color and black level performance compared to my 65" passive LG, it is the only way I view 3D (or any movies) now. I feel completely immersed in the movie, even movies without any pop out 3D are still enjoyable.

What we need is a progression to 4K3D now. The content is already there for it at least in filming, just need the hardware and Ultra HD 3D discs. I think it will happen but not for a few years at least. Maybe by 2018 or so there will be new interest in improving the 3D home theater.

I think a large percentage of 3D adopters are turned off because they purchase a passive screen, mount it 6 feet or more above a fireplace (like I did myself) and then complain because of ghosting and lackluster results. 3D requires more consideration on setup.

The one concern I have is there has been a drop in native-filmed 3D movies last couple of years, that is movies filmed in 2D and post converted rather than a 2 camera system. Most would agree post converted 3D movies don't hold up as well as native ones. Post conversion is getting better, but still can't mimic a native movie.
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post #25 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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My Samsung active 3D glasses works fine on my Epson projector.
You sure you can't use other glasses with the projector?
I deliberately used one pair of BenQ OEM glasses and one pair of glasses I bought on Amazon for $25 for my viewing. Both provided spot-on color accuracy and zero ghosting.

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post #26 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 07:54 AM
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It wasn't weird in the slightest when I was watching 3D with approximately that viewing angle this past weekend. Indeed, that experience is what inspired me to write this post. Are you sure your source doesn't have a screen-size setting for 3D that might be causing this?
It does and I sat both the source and the projector correctly.
It possible could be just that particular movie.
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post #27 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 08:12 AM
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The one (only?) useful aspect of the now ubiquitous 4K displays is their excellent 3D. It seems a shame that a number of manufacturers are dropping 3D when it is finally so good.

Is there any chance that Netflix streaming will provide any of its offerings in 3D? And how can you tell whether the Netflix DVD service is providing 3D versions?
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post #28 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 08:20 AM
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Similar observation for me. I always thought 3D was worthless (as seen in Cinemas) until I got my JVC projector (RS500). Now, with the RS500, I want more 3D and I really hope we will get 3D movies for years to come!
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post #29 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 08:30 AM
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better late than never is a good place to start.

it's no wonder it didn't take off on TV's. They are just too small to really enjoy the 3D experience. there is a big difference between watching any movie (2D or 3D) on a 60-70" TV vs. a projector at 120"+. The bigger the better.

We watched Jungle Book in 3D last night in a full velvet room, JVC RS600 on a 142" 16:9. it was remarkable and a much better experience than watching it in 2D. they put a ton of effort into the 3D, it's a shame Disney is no longer releasing these 3D titles in the US. It's easy enough to find them online to import.

This experience was better than even the best cinema DLP presentation which has it's own issues of using awful circular polarizing glasses and also weak native contrast that looks muddy in low APL scenes. The JVC's kill here and low APL scenes in JB 3D looked amazing.
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post #30 of 192 Old 09-06-2016, 08:30 AM
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Is there any chance that Netflix streaming will provide any of its offerings in 3D?
Netflix used to have 3D streaming, but it looks like they discontinued it.

My wife would get migraines when watching passive 3D in the theater. She doesn't have that problem at home with our active shutter glasses.
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