1080p 3d vs 4k 3d projectors - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 02-15-2019, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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1080p 3d vs 4k 3d projectors

Im looking at optoma darbee 1080p and uhd51alv. They both say full hd 3d. Does that mean darbee can also project full 1080p on each eye to have clean resolution?

I only watched passive 3d on LG 4k 3d tv and 1080p 3d before, and they are different on lcd and oled tv. I'm not sure if there's a difference in the projectors with active 3d.
Only reason i am hesitant to buy uhd51alv is response time for gaming and not being a short throw.

Im planning to use it as a golf simulator, home theater, and for ps4.
Not sure if it's worth extra 1k if darbee can do all that for me.
I meed some help here. Thanks.

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post #2 of 22 Old 02-16-2019, 07:25 AM
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I have had the Optoma HD29Darbee and have seen the Optoma UHD51alv. the HD29 does a great job with 1080p 3D. So does the UHD51ALV. Both show 3D in 1080p, the UHD51alv does not upscale 1080p 3D to 4K. So in effect, you are seeing an equal image. The Darbee does look very 4K-like as it improves contrast at the pixel level for more perception of detail. If you want even more brightness for a bigger screen, then you could get the Optoma HD39Darbee. It's brighter and has great 3D as well. The UHD51alv is too slow for gaming. If gaming and 3D is your desire, then a 4K projector isn't going to improve anything for you. No projector is going to give you an OLED-like image. It's closer to LCD. Bright projectors have less contrast, but it's a trade off, since for 3D, you want a bright projector.
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post #3 of 22 Old 02-16-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
I have had the Optoma HD29Darbee and have seen the Optoma UHD51alv. the HD29 does a great job with 1080p 3D. So does the UHD51ALV. Both show 3D in 1080p, the UHD51alv does not upscale 1080p 3D to 4K. So in effect, you are seeing an equal image. The Darbee does look very 4K-like as it improves contrast at the pixel level for more perception of detail. If you want even more brightness for a bigger screen, then you could get the Optoma HD39Darbee. It's brighter and has great 3D as well. The UHD51alv is too slow for gaming. If gaming and 3D is your desire, then a 4K projector isn't going to improve anything for you. No projector is going to give you an OLED-like image. It's closer to LCD. Bright projectors have less contrast, but it's a trade off, since for 3D, you want a bright projector.
How about GT1080darbee?
My main purpose is to use it for golf sim, ps4, and 3d movies. Maybe I can just watch 4k movies on my LG65e6 until I can find the right projector for all purpose.
Is any of new 4k projector coming out with 3d and lower responsive time this year?
Maybe if gt1080darbee is good enough to use for about 2 years then upgrade to 4k when it's more available then.

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post #4 of 22 Old 02-16-2019, 12:57 PM
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The GT1080darbee is short throw and good gaming capabilities, but not as bright. Depends on what size of screen you have. I don't think you can go much over 100" screen with that in 3D. It would probably suffice until better 4K comes along. Problem there is 3D is disappearing on 4K projectors and fewer are offering it, so consider that as well.
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post #5 of 22 Old 02-16-2019, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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My screen will be about 170" 13'wx8'h mainly to use it for a golf simulator. I will be watching movie and play games about 20ft away, so bigger screen will be better for me. Hd39darbee sounds great for my purpose, but throw distance is calculated at 19' and I dont know if that will create a shadow when I'm using it for a golf simulator.

How do you like your UHD51ALV? Is it somewhat future proof?

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post #6 of 22 Old 02-17-2019, 08:42 AM
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Whoa, a 170" screen is going to require the brightest projector you can get. I would get the HD39Darbee based on your requirements. No current 4K projector is future proof, except that the UHD51ALV and the Benq TK800, both bright 4K projectors, still offer 3D. I think a couple years from now, none of them will offer it on their new and improved 4K projectors. My motto, enjoy what exists now to enjoy, and not continually wait for the next best thing to appear.

As for the shadow issue, you won't know until try it.
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post #7 of 22 Old 02-19-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up uhd51alv. I had 20% discount, so i couldnt pass. I hope the games I play on ps4 are playable. Now I need to get some 20-25ft hdmi cables, ceiling mount, 3d glasses, and hdmi 4in 2out.

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post #8 of 22 Old 03-10-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by bongta029 View Post
I just picked up uhd51alv. I had 20% discount, so i couldnt pass. I hope the games I play on ps4 are playable. Now I need to get some 20-25ft hdmi cables, ceiling mount, 3d glasses, and hdmi 4in 2out.

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Can you chime in on you experience with 3D vs the OLED?

My 65EF9500 made me fall in love with 3D. I've been looking to get back into the projector game, but as most movies I'm buying these days are 3D (usually imports) I really want a 4k projector that does 3d with two 1080p images. It's the perfect way to watch all these 2k mastered CGI movies full of 3d eye candy.

4k and HDR is great for 35mm or higher film scans, but 2k DCIs... gimme dat 3D!

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post #9 of 22 Old 04-21-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BBruin66 View Post
Can you chime in on you experience with 3D vs the OLED?

My 65EF9500 made me fall in love with 3D. I've been looking to get back into the projector game, but as most movies I'm buying these days are 3D (usually imports) I really want a 4k projector that does 3d with two 1080p images. It's the perfect way to watch all these 2k mastered CGI movies full of 3d eye candy.

4k and HDR is great for 35mm or higher film scans, but 2k DCIs... gimme dat 3D!
Is the 3D really using more pixels on a 4k projector vs a 1080p projector (besides any possible upscaling)? I've heard this from one other person in an Amazon review for the uhd51alv, but I just assumed they were misinformed. I thought that 1080p projectors were already using the full resolution that a 3D blu-ray could spit out...

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post #10 of 22 Old 04-21-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ryudoadema View Post
Is the 3D really using more pixels on a 4k projector vs a 1080p projector (besides any possible upscaling)? I've heard this from one other person in an Amazon review for the uhd51alv, but I just assumed they were misinformed. I thought that 1080p projectors were already using the full resolution that a 3D blu-ray could spit out...
Remember a Blu-ray 3D source contains a 1080p frame for each eye.

Active 3D flashes each eye's frame one after the other. The active glasses then shutter each eye so you don't see the game your not supposed to. This method has some drawbacks to brightness and sync. Technically it can give you the Full 1080p image.

Passive on the other hand displays both images simultaneously. This means on a 1080p screen it's displaying each eye at 1920*540 which causes the resolution to suffer.

On a 4k TV each eye can receive a 3840*1080 image resulting in a flawless if not upscaled rendering on each eye's 1080p frame. Combine this with the luscious colors of an OLED screen, accurate to the pixel (which is very important for effective passive 3D) and you have a wonderful home Cinema experience. One which LG decided to take away.
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-22-2019, 04:33 AM
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Remember a Blu-ray 3D source contains a 1080p frame for each eye.

Active 3D flashes each eye's frame one after the other. The active glasses then shutter each eye so you don't see the game your not supposed to. This method has some drawbacks to brightness and sync. Technically it can give you the Full 1080p image.

Passive on the other hand displays both images simultaneously. This means on a 1080p screen it's displaying each eye at 1920*540 which causes the resolution to suffer.

On a 4k TV each eye can receive a 3840*1080 image resulting in a flawless if not upscaled rendering on each eye's 1080p frame. Combine this with the luscious colors of an OLED screen, accurate to the pixel (which is very important for effective passive 3D) and you have a wonderful home Cinema experience. One which LG decided to take away.
Oh I gotcha now. I thought you were saying that normal 4k active 3D projectors somehow displayed more pixels in 1080p 3d than 1080p 3d projectors. That's definitely what the reviewer was saying. Thanks for clarifying!

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-25-2019, 02:43 PM
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Oh I gotcha now. I thought you were saying that normal 4k active 3D projectors somehow displayed more pixels in 1080p 3d than 1080p 3d projectors. That's definitely what the reviewer was saying. Thanks for clarifying!
While both HD and 4K show 3D at HD (1080p), clarity and detail vary quite a bit based on projector models. I recently saw the Optoma UHD51ALV 3D, and yes it's 1080p, but was blown away by it--best 3D I've ever seen and 4K-like quality as well, in my mind, and I've seen a lot of projectors, both HD and 4K in the last 2 years....
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
While both HD and 4K show 3D at HD (1080p), clarity and detail vary quite a bit based on projector models. I recently saw the Optoma UHD51ALV 3D, and yes it's 1080p, but was blown away by it--best 3D I've ever seen and 4K-like quality as well, in my mind, and I've seen a lot of projectors, both HD and 4K in the last 2 years....
Thanks 3DBob! I've been considering the ht3550 or upcoming bright variant, the uhd51a/lv, or getting a new bulb for my ht3050 (or even downgrading slightly to the 2050a for slightly brighter 3D). Good to hear that the UHD51ALV had such great 3d! What do you have in you're past/present repertoire to compare it to if you don't mind my asking?

At 1200+ hours on my ht3050 on a paltry 100" screen, some 3D movies are quite dim while most are great. Some, especially animated films like Moana, are still very bright. I wonder if the brighter variants are much better than their counterparts since only the whites are really brighter, while the colors suffer. Majestechs showed this pretty well where he compared I believe the 2550 and tk800 side by side and portions of the movie where it was mostly color looked brighter on the 2550. So it almost seems like they equal out for overall brightness in things like 3D, but the dimmer variant has the benefit of just having a nicer picture and blacks when the brightness is not needed.

Still from your input the alv is close to the top of my list again. If I had more throw space I might look into going with something like the Epson 5050ub which seems plenty bright, but is higher than I have ever considered going price-wise.

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-26-2019, 09:27 AM
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I am looking for a dedicated 3d projector to complement my JVC rs540 which does 3d reasonably well, but could be better. Based on this and previous discussions I am looking at the older Optoma darbees: hd29, hd39, and gt1080. I had been trying to figure out placement for the 29/39 but had the realization it would be a lot easier with dual projectors to use the gt1080 placed much farther forward.

Any opinions on the value proposition of these 3 units and whether something newer would indeed be more worthwhile for 3d only? other than fixed lens position, what are the drawbacks of the gt1080?

somewhat related, do game consoles play 3d discs? backups? have an original xbox one and might consider a one X at some point.
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I am looking for a dedicated 3d projector ...
I have been casually looking for the same. Curious if you have made a choice. Thanks.
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I am looking for a dedicated 3d projector to complement my JVC rs540 which does 3d reasonably well, but could be better. Based on this and previous discussions I am looking at the older Optoma darbees: hd29, hd39, and gt1080.

One issue that hasn't been mentioned in the context of today's 4K XPR DLP projectors is that these have very unfortunately gotten rid of the Vesa "3D Sync" ports to connect 3D-RF emitters.


So for those you rely on DLP Link only and need the suitable DLP link glasses (can't use the 3D-RF glasses previously used with your JVC) - and if you've gotten used to 3D-RF glasses, you may not like that when your turn your head that the 3D image will breakdown until the DLP Link glasses re-syncronize (I strongly favor and recommend 3D-RF wherever possible)


Both HD29, HD39 and GT1080 still have a Vesa "3D Sync" port but you can't use the JVC RF-emitter (difference in voltage) and have to look for a suitable one you can pair your existing 3D-RF glasses with.

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post #17 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post
I have been casually looking for the same. Curious if you have made a choice. Thanks.
I did not buy a 3d projector but pretty much narrowed it down to the HD39, of course the most expensive. I ruled out the HD29 because placement would have been very troublesome, and the 1080 is tough because I would have needed to use a retractable screen for it and as a short throw it would have had ripple issues. The HD39 has a little bit of vertical shift, which makes it the most flexible. Unfortunately, as I am modeling the placement of the primary projector it turns out my lens slide will likely interfere with the HD39 location. I'll keep tweaking, though, and see what I can do. It would definitely be fun to find a way to make it work.

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One issue that hasn't been mentioned in the context of today's 4K XPR DLP projectors is that these have very unfortunately gotten rid of the Vesa "3D Sync" ports to connect 3D-RF emitters.


So for those you rely on DLP Link only and need the suitable DLP link glasses (can't use the 3D-RF glasses previously used with your JVC) - and if you've gotten used to 3D-RF glasses, you may not like that when your turn your head that the 3D image will breakdown until the DLP Link glasses re-syncronize (I strongly favor and recommend 3D-RF wherever possible)


Both HD29, HD39 and GT1080 still have a Vesa "3D Sync" port but you can't use the JVC RF-emitter (difference in voltage) and have to look for a suitable one you can pair your existing 3D-RF glasses with.


My RF emitter is the Xpand brand unit, not the OEM JVC emitter. Does that change things?
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
I have had the Optoma HD29Darbee and have seen the Optoma UHD51alv. the HD29 does a great job with 1080p 3D. So does the UHD51ALV. Both show 3D in 1080p, the UHD51alv does not upscale 1080p 3D to 4K. So in effect, you are seeing an equal image. The Darbee does look very 4K-like as it improves contrast at the pixel level for more perception of detail. If you want even more brightness for a bigger screen, then you could get the Optoma HD39Darbee. It's brighter and has great 3D as well. The UHD51alv is too slow for gaming. If gaming and 3D is your desire, then a 4K projector isn't going to improve anything for you. No projector is going to give you an OLED-like image. It's closer to LCD. Bright projectors have less contrast, but it's a trade off, since for 3D, you want a bright projector.
Dolby/Christie Ultimate projector and the SIM2 HDR Duo beg to differ... they actually surpass OLEDs in pretty much every way
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
My RF emitter is the Xpand brand unit, not the OEM JVC emitter. Does that change things?

I wouldn't know. I just came across the different voltage emitter information a couple of days ago. Certainly the user manual for the Xpand RF emitter could provide clarity, I for one don't believe it only works with JVC projectors.


I should also mention that with the Hi-Shock RF emitter I got last year, the Xpand 3D-RF glasses wouldn't work with.


Then tested the Hi-Shock RF glasses and the Xpand RF glasses at a friend with his 4K Sony projector and both worked perfectly fine.


I find it somewhat odd, that during the prime time of 3D glasses no one AFAIK compiled a compatibility list of various 3D glasses brands and projectors.

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Dolby/Christie Ultimate projector and the SIM2 HDR Duo beg to differ... they actually surpass OLEDs in pretty much every way
Let me correct my statement and say "projectors that people can afford."
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Let me correct my statement and say "projectors that people can afford."
Haha, then I agree!
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
I am looking for a dedicated 3d projector to complement my JVC rs540...
I have a JVC RS520 and had a similar quest. I wanted an ultra short throw or very short throw projector that I could sit on a stand beneath and close to the screen as I did not want to ceiling mount a projector. I ended up getting a Benq. I looked at the HT2150ST but ended up with a TH671ST. It was a fair bit brighter in 3D mode than the 2150ST and I am not bothered by rainbow effect. Here is my comparison between it and my JVC.

First - I only consider using the Benq for 3D. 2D performance is not a contest with the JVC the clear winner.

My JVC has 1400 hours on the bulb. I have a 118" 16:9 screen (1.0 gain). I have the JVC behind the back wall (no noise - nice) but the longer throw of 18' 4" does lose some lumens due to its zoom position. I measured its best 3D mode (high lamp with a custom calibration for 3D) with my pseudo test pattern. I just used Chapter 3 of the first Lichtmond 3D Blu-ray where it fades to full white to get the projector in 3D Mode for this measurement. I don't really know for sure that this is a proper full white image but I used the same image for both projectors so it is a direct comparison.

The Benq is located at its optimal brightness location and I also have it set with a slightly lower gamma since I use it just for 3D (2.0 vs 2.2 for the JVC).

The comparison:

Brightness:
Both projectors lose a staggering amount of light output in 3D mode and more with the shutter glasses.
These measurements were with both projectors displaying a 3D "white" full screen image (see above).
JVC measured 150 Lux (with 1400 hours bulb wear and non optimal placement).
Benq TH671ST measured 250 Lux (with new bulb and optimal placement).
(for comparison the Benq HT2150ST I also evaluated with new bulb measured 195 Lux in this test).

Colors:
JVC colors looked undersaturated probably because of the lower lumens.
Benq colors looked very good if a bit over saturated. A surprise.

Cross Talk:
JVC has slight cross talk on some material. Can be mostly dialed out with the expense of brightness but in rare material is still shows.
Benq no cross talk that I observed. DLP a clear winner for this. This is the main reason I wanted to try a DLP.

Motion:
JVC seems a bit better with Motion (I don't use its CMD however).

Shadow Detail:
JVC also wins this but the overall effect is diminished by the dimmer image from the JVC (and the shutter glasses). I employed some family members to help me and both preferred the benq image for low light scenes. If I could have equalized the brightness this JVC advantage might be considerable. However, in my setup the Benq looks better mostly because it is just brighter (with new bulb and better placement).

Flicker:
The JVC operates at 96 Hz I believe in 3D (48 Hz per eye). The Benq 144 Hz (72 Hz per eye?).
There is a slight and subtle flicker to the JVC in 3D mode that is not present with the Benq. I notice it but many others might not.

In my setup with my JVC location and aged bulb the Benq is a clear improvement for 3D.

I only wish I could find an even brighter 3D DLP that would work in my setup.

For comparison I also have a 2016 LG Oled that is my gold standard for 3D. The Benq is the closest I have seen a projector get to its image. In fact if I reduce the screen size to 104" diagonal It is close to the experience I get with the LG. I can do that in my setup but I just prefer the larger image I get full frame on my 16:9 screen. Time will tell as the Benq bulb ages if this remains true.
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