Petition for reviving LG's OLED 3D TV's - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 06-08-2019, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Petition for reviving LG's OLED 3D TV's

This might be old news, but here is a petition still in circulation asking LG to revive 3D on their OLED TV's. I agree with the many who think that using LG's 4K OLED with passive 3D is among the best ways to view current content (3D Blu-Ray, etc.). If you are like me, and have a huge 3D Blu-Ray collection and an aging 3D TV, please consider adding your name to this petition.

Thank you

The petition can be fund at this URL --> chng.it/DKSh4CTZwZ Sorry I can't post the complete link until I get 5+ messages.
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post #2 of 33 Old 06-08-2019, 04:20 PM
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I wonder if its just a software add on, or if they need to include parts to add the feature again...

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post #3 of 33 Old 06-08-2019, 09:26 PM
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Well, both. They used a FPR layer for 3D, so that's gone and so is the built-in software for displaying 3D.

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post #4 of 33 Old 06-10-2019, 06:32 AM
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There were 3 strikes that killed the 3D market.

1. Initially 3DTVs had active shutterglass technology and many bought them, but there was little content available, and using the shutterglasses was a nightmare by many because of the short battery life or need to recharge them. Plus 3D inversion could happen and confuse watchers and give them headaches.

2. The rise of passive 3DTV with polarized glasses helped save the industry, but it wasn't long before many complained of the crosstalk issues and bad alignment of the polarizer barrier on the TV. Many were sent back for realignment, and it became a nightmare for manufacturers to cover the high cost of shipping and replacement of screen technology.

3. TV watching is typically a casual event of watching, talking to others, reading, etc., even during movies, but with glasses on, people have to pay more attention to the screen and lights typically have to be turned down or off to increase the image contrast. And don't get me started about the glasses. People hated them.

Also, especially in the US, people would not go to movies to watch a 3D movie, but wait for it to come out on bluray, and these were mainly projection TV users, but it did start to take money away from theaters. Go to a 3D showing now at a theater, and sometimes there are only 5 or less people watching. That is just not going to make money--AND, it's all about making money. People in Europe, Asia and Russia are still active 3D theater watchers, and that is why you see many releases of movies in 3D in foreign countries and not in the US. I've talked to a few TV reps and they always say, thank god 3D TV died when it did, and with the rise of 4K and 8K, TV sales have finally picked up again and the industry is very strong.

I had an experience at a theater that really drove the problem home to me about the glasses. In the same theater, several young children were there with their parents, and as I looked around, most had their glasses off after 15 minutes of watching. There was also a gaggle of 5 teenage girls sitting down the row from me. 3 refused to put their glasses on. I heard them whisper, that they wouldn't be caught dead wearing the glasses, as some boy might see them and laugh. Yeah, I laughed...

Maybe glassless 3DTV will save the industry, but without money being invested in the technology by the big companies like LG and Samsung, it isn't going to fly. Yes, there are small entrepreneurs investing in it--mostly for advertising, and James Cameron would like to see the next Avatars using glassless technology, but it's just not going to happen anytime soon.
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post #5 of 33 Old 06-10-2019, 10:16 AM
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not again...
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post #6 of 33 Old 06-10-2019, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
There were 3 strikes that killed the 3D market.
There was also the tech war of Active vs Passive 3D that flares up every so often (still) which didn't help at the time. Earlier versions of the tech (like FHD Passive) had visual artifacts which only really got fixed with 4K Passive 3D; Active tech apparently had flicker/crosstalk issues (and glasses compatibility issues) that also dampened the enthusiasm I expect. Plus 3D TV's came out shortly after the "LED" TV push so they probably had saturated the market a bit by that point (2008 - 2010).

The glasses issue for 3D movies probably drove most people away along with the brightness being lowered due to the glasses + the higher premium cost of tickets over the perceived value of the experience. In Australia we still have the odd movie screened in 3D (Godzilla: King of the Monsters for example) but generally it's dropped off considerably or entire city cinema groups aren't bothering (one group didn't even try with Avengers: Endgame, which was a shame). Though, when I have gone it is still fairly well attended if it's a new release movie in the week or two it's screening. Nowadays they're trying for the new 4DX experience + 3D as a premium offering instead.

Hard to know if glasses-free technology will be able to pick 3D up again; without strong content production it seems unlikely and given companies like Paramount aren't releasing 3D Blu-Rays (along with Disney in most cases) it seems pretty remote at this point in time. For advertising etc it will work fine I expect, just hard to know if it would really reach the home market successfully if there isn't new fresh content available.
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post #7 of 33 Old 06-11-2019, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by RonAlam View Post
not again...
Yup, here we go again...breathe, come on breathe, we scream, as we push heavily on the heart of 3D, hoping the giant that once was will again push 3D pairs into our eyes once more.
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post #8 of 33 Old 06-11-2019, 05:26 PM
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I would love for this to happen, but don't see it.
It drives me nuts that manufacturers stopped when they did, and that the hard and fast rule of used televisions being cheaper doesn't apply to these. 3D is so terrible, yet the demand is enough that a used television has held or increased in value. 😛
I haven't had a chance to see what LG OLED 3D looks like, but everyone seems to say it converts the 3D haters and is better than the 3D in theaters, so maybe a revival would be profitable/beneficial... *shrugs*
Until then, hoping my PN64D8000 holds out for another few years.
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post #9 of 33 Old 06-11-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sacramentojoe View Post
I haven't had a chance to see what LG OLED 3D looks like, but everyone seems to say it converts the 3D haters and is better than the 3D in theaters, so maybe a revival would be profitable/beneficial... *shrugs*
Assuming it's LG OLED 4K with a properly aligned FPR filter in general it's as good as it gets for a home TV 3D experience overall PQ/3D wise (if it's not 4K it has visual interlacing artifacts from the lower resolution used). I'd expect projectors would beat it for immersion value (since the screen is bigger) but not on contrast unless it's a high grade projector. I'm due to try out a later generation Active 3D TV soon so I'll be interested to see how it compares since it's been a while since I had an opportunity to do so but I'd expect it should match up to OLED 4K except for contrast/PQ quality obviously.
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post #10 of 33 Old 06-12-2019, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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3D TV has been a good experience for me.

I have a 2012 model year Samsung 60" 3D TV. Yes, it has active shutter glasses that cost me an extra $80 to get 4 pair. Yes, they are powered by a button battery that would die after about 100 hours use. No big deal. The batteries are 50 cents each when bought in bulk off Amazon. And... The 3D quality on some movies made it all worthwhile. Yes, there were also many "fake" converted to 3D Blu-Ray releases, and the only way to know is to watch them. The fake releases seemed to always have the same boring 3D depth regardless of program content. However, the real 3D movies would take your breath away on some scenes.

Ok, enough soap boxing. I get that many don't like 3D. However here we are with over 1000 Blu-Ray releases, tons of players, etc. In the market place. When Laser Disc died, Pioneer kept one high-end model player in production for 10+ years (The DVL-919) and you can still find new-old stock if you look. There is *no* reason for the TV Manufacturers, not to keep 1 old 3d model in production. The demand is obvious in how much an 2016 era 4k OLED LG 3D capable set can fetch new in the box. Try double+ the original store price!!

If my Samsung ever dies, then I'm either buying a used set or one of those commercial projectors that still offer 3D. In my decades in this hobby (and in the business) I've always told my friends and customers the same thing. Hardware is a means to an end. The real value is in the packaged media. I'm not about to orphan my 3D library because the TV makers decided in block to drop 3D.
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post #11 of 33 Old 06-17-2019, 01:18 PM
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I signed, because why not.

I don't understand why there isn't a single major manufacturer making a single, high end model with 3D. That's inexplicable to me. They'd have a competitive advantage by capturing the entire 3D market. People would drop their brand loyalty for that.

I understand and accept that it's a dying market, but surely there is enough interest left to support at least one model with 3D.
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post #12 of 33 Old 06-18-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCS1 View Post
This might be old news, but here is a petition still in circulation asking LG to revive 3D on their OLED TV's. I agree with the many who think that using LG's 4K OLED with passive 3D is among the best ways to view current content (3D Blu-Ray, etc.). If you are like me, and have a huge 3D Blu-Ray collection and an aging 3D TV, please consider adding your name to this petition.

Thank you

The petition can be fund at this URL --> chng.it/DKSh4CTZwZ Sorry I can't post the complete link until I get 5+ messages.

First, glasses-free 3D really is coming as is a 4k 3D standard.


Second, if you want awesome 3D get an Epson with a laser light engine or 5050ub. I have an Epson 9600e laser projector that I use solely for 3D as I have a very nice Sony 4K projector for 2D material. The Epson produces a bright, reference quality picture with very little cross-talk, very little judder, and no flicker. You never get fatigued or get a headache watching on this PJ. In fact, I feel the 3D experience with my Epson is far superior to that with my OLED. The sense of depth is much greater and the popouts really seem to pop out. Unlike most projectors that do bright 3D with little or no cross-talk this Epson has excellent contrast and black levels. They are not as good as an OLED but they are so good that you won't notice unless you are specifically looking and making a comparison. Size also matters. You simply miss out on most of the benefits of 3D on a small screen. Watching from 8 feet away on a 100-inch screen is amazing.
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post #13 of 33 Old 06-19-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
First, glasses-free 3D really is coming as is a 4k 3D standard.
Source?

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post #14 of 33 Old 06-21-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Also, especially in the US, people would not go to movies to watch a 3D movie, but wait for it to come out on bluray, and these were mainly projection TV users, but it did start to take money away from theaters. Go to a 3D showing now at a theater, and sometimes there are only 5 or less people watching. That is just not going to make money--AND, it's all about making money.
I wouldn't agree at all on this point:

1. People weren't buying 3D Blu-Rays in the U.S. Otherwise, studios would pump them out continually. And it's easy to see why: $35 for a film vs. $15-$20 for the non-3D set. We're enthusiasts but we're not the largest part of the market. That's why TV manufacturers stopped making them - no one was paying the premium for them, and the same TV manufacturers were making the Blu-Ray players as well, and in some cases the movies (Sony in this case).

2. People ARE paying for 3D movies at the theater - notice a lot of films are getting a 3D theatrical release in the U.S., but no Blu-Ray 3D release. People like 3D on a large screen, but at home, not so much. 3D films in the U.S still get a wide release, and there are plenty of them still being released.

I honestly believe that watching at home isn't as focused as a theater combined with the high cost of the 3D Blu-Ray killed off home 3D.
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post #15 of 33 Old 06-22-2019, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by danlshane View Post
Source?
The HDMI 2.1 standard explicitly supports 4K in 3D. The committees that put together these standards don't just put stuff like this in for kicks. They know that there is a media format being developed somewhere that will make use of this functionality.
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post #16 of 33 Old 06-23-2019, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
The HDMI 2.1 standard explicitly supports 4K in 3D. The committees that put together these standards don't just put stuff like this in for kicks. They know that there is a media format being developed somewhere that will make use of this functionality.
So no actual documentation for what you state as fact. The very definition of vaporware. I will believe it when (if) it happens.

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post #17 of 33 Old 06-23-2019, 09:08 AM
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https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx


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post #18 of 33 Old 06-23-2019, 09:12 AM
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Don’t see anything about 3d


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post #19 of 33 Old 06-23-2019, 06:28 PM
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Don’t see anything about 3d


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That is not the actual standard. The actual standard is not publically available. You have to be what is called a current adopter to get a copy. I have seen the final 3D section.
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post #20 of 33 Old 06-24-2019, 05:54 AM
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Oh ok. That will be good then because I love 3D and have a ton of movies. Guess we will have to wait and see what the tv companies do in the future.


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post #21 of 33 Old 06-24-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
That is not the actual standard. The actual standard is not publically available. You have to be what is called a current adopter to get a copy. I have seen the final 3D section.
That's encouraging. Thanks for the insider info.

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post #22 of 33 Old 06-25-2019, 02:05 AM
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Oh ok. That will be good then because I love 3D and have a ton of movies. Guess we will have to wait and see what the tv companies do in the future.
The confusing part will be partially compliant HDMI 2.1 devices that support some of the 2.1 specs but not all of them or the full 48 Gbps bandwidth (and I suspect enhanced 3D would be part of a partially supported feature set, meaning things like AVR's may not pass it properly). See here so there's a lot of buyer beware on the current 2019 models for things like eARC, VRR and HFR which I suspect will keep going into 2020 or 2021 before it settles (or standardises) down.
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post #23 of 33 Old 06-26-2019, 11:45 AM
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Signing...I don't like thinking about the day my 3D TV will die. I really love 3D cinematic adventures.
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post #24 of 33 Old 06-27-2019, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
I signed, because why not.

I don't understand why there isn't a single major manufacturer making a single, high end model with 3D. That's inexplicable to me. They'd have a competitive advantage by capturing the entire 3D market. People would drop their brand loyalty for that.

I understand and accept that it's a dying market, but surely there is enough interest left to support at least one model with 3D.
I for one would certainly have been prepared to switch brands and, if needs be, pay extra.

A good candidate flat panel screen type for 3D capability would be OLED because it is capable of practically instantaneous extinguishment of individual pixels (unlike LCD technology with its significant grey-to-grey transition times).

Some TV sets these days will actually accept 120fps input and display it at 120fps. A manufacturer ought to be able to reconfigure an OLED set to accept 3D input and display it for viewing with 120Hz active glasses. (I'd actually aim for 144Hz rather than 120Hz, to improve the 3D smoothness.)

The TV market these days is about High Dynamic Range and I must say HDR can be very impressive. I'd be happy though with a set that could do 1080p 3D with standard dynamic range. For an OLED set, that should not be a big ask!
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post #25 of 33 Old 07-02-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PCummins View Post
The confusing part will be partially compliant HDMI 2.1 devices that support some of the 2.1 specs but not all of them or the full 48 Gbps bandwidth (and I suspect enhanced 3D would be part of a partially supported feature set, meaning things like AVR's may not pass it properly). See here so there's a lot of buyer beware on the current 2019 models for things like eARC, VRR and HFR which I suspect will keep going into 2020 or 2021 before it settles (or standardises) down.
I don't know what the Blu-ray Association is going to do about 4K 3D. My guess is that they will wait for 8K panels and and glasses-free 3D to develop more thoroughly. The HDMI 2.1 standard is very much about trying to accommodate anything that might pop in the next few years to reduce the need for one new HDMI standard after another in rapid succession.
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post #26 of 33 Old 07-02-2019, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
I don't know what the Blu-ray Association is going to do about 4K 3D. My guess is that they will wait for 8K panels and and glasses-free 3D to develop more thoroughly. The HDMI 2.1 standard is very much about trying to accommodate anything that might pop in the next few years to reduce the need for one new HDMI standard after another in rapid succession.
But yeah. Your point is well taken. Buyer beware.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-04-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jaychatbonneau View Post
First, glasses-free 3D really is coming as is a 4k 3D standard.


Second, if you want awesome 3D get an Epson with a laser light engine or 5050ub. I have an Epson 9600e laser projector that I use solely for 3D as I have a very nice Sony 4K projector for 2D material. The Epson produces a bright, reference quality picture with very little cross-talk, very little judder, and no flicker. You never get fatigued or get a headache watching on this PJ. In fact, I feel the 3D experience with my Epson is far superior to that with my OLED. The sense of depth is much greater and the popouts really seem to pop out. Unlike most projectors that do bright 3D with little or no cross-talk this Epson has excellent contrast and black levels. They are not as good as an OLED but they are so good that you won't notice unless you are specifically looking and making a comparison. Size also matters. You simply miss out on most of the benefits of 3D on a small screen. Watching from 8 feet away on a 100-inch screen is amazing.
I have an Epson LS-10,000 and two JVC (2016) projectors. Up until a few months ago I would have rated the JVCs ahead of the Epson for 3D due to some very annoying "ghosting" the Epson was displaying. Just for the hell of it I decided to play around with the 3D depth setting. I figured that I might be able to ameliorate it somewhat if I set the depth to -1 or -2. No go; however I then did the counter intuitive thing and increased depth to +2 and all cross-talk disappeared. I have no idea why but the Epson is now a 3D killer -- love 3D on this thing.

As to 4K 3D and glassless 3D they had better come soon or I may not be on the planet when they finally arrive.

Also, I signed the LG 3D petition some time ago. Apparently no one at LG cares -- too bad for the 3D community.

When glassless 3D arrives it will no doubt be hyped to the hilt with the intent that everyone had better discard their formerly latest and greatest T.V.s for the new kid on the block.
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post #28 of 33 Old 07-06-2019, 02:30 AM
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When glassless 3D arrives it will no doubt be hyped to the hilt with the intent that everyone had better discard their formerly latest and greatest T.V.s for the new kid on the block.
Not unless there is a new firm commitment from content producers (ie movies, games/VR) to support it. Without content (or systems to capture 3D content) it won't go down well I think, regardless of how good technically it is - if there's no content to watch on it then people won't use it.
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post #29 of 33 Old 07-08-2019, 01:43 PM
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Not unless there is a new firm commitment from content producers (ie movies, games/VR) to support it. Without content (or systems to capture 3D content) it won't go down well I think, regardless of how good technically it is - if there's no content to watch on it then people won't use it.
I think glassless 3D T.V.'s will play current 3D content and probably provide pretty good 2D to 3D conversion. Whether or not we get 4K 3D is anyone's guess and probably not crucial.
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post #30 of 33 Old 07-08-2019, 02:27 PM
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My advice, enjoy what you have. If you don't have a 3D TV, get a projector now--they still have a couple of years left. And get a 4k that will do 3d if you can--and get the brightest projector for the money. Then wait it out until Cameron releases the next Avatar series, which just ignite more interest.
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