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mrmrmrmr 05-04-2011 05:02 PM

Hi,

I am planning to create 3d frame packed movies with new version of Sony Vegas Pro.
But I guess this software does not have the feature of adding Bluray Disc menus. (either 2d menu or 3d menu)
Is there a free or affordable software which can enable authoring of Bluray discs with 3d content and 2d or 3d menus ?

I've read that Adobe Encore , Sony DVD Architect and some other software are capable of Bluray authoring but are they able to use 3d movies ?
What about frame packed movies ?

Thanks.

Don Landis 05-05-2011 07:13 AM

Right now Blueprint is your choice. This is very expensive and robust authoring package. It is what all the studios use. There are also several add-on's to do special features too.

The new Vegas Pro 10d will allow a timeline burn to BlueRay for 3D Full HD content playable from any 3D Blue Ray Player with DD5.1 sound same as present Blue Ray burn from the timeline but in 3D. No menus of course as that capability falls under "authoring" which is the DVD Architecture v 5.2 domain. Strongly hinted at NAB the reps said to look for this in the next major version of DVD A. It will not be as robust as Blueprint but offer same capability as present BlueRay 2D menus, just for 3D file structure. That's all I heard but that is good enough for me. If you are a Vegas user now the upgrade price to get into 3D BluRay authoring in the future will be very reasonable price.

mrmrmrmr 05-05-2011 12:34 PM

thanks for this information.
blueprint is very expensive.
vegas pro doesn't do authoring.
so let's say I'm willing to use 2 seperate software and 2d menus are enough for me. is there a solution as:
1. create the 3d full hd movie in Vegas pro
2. create bluray disc in current DVD Architect with 2D menus and full 3D movies

would that work ?

bigbarney 05-05-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post
1. create the 3d full hd movie in Vegas pro
2. create bluray disc in current DVD Architect with 2D menus and full 3D movies

would that work ?
No.

Vegas pro 10D will allow you to do full 3D from the time line (no menus) but the present version of DVDa will most likely not allow you to use frame packed interlace (MVC) when authoring a Blu Ray. The present version does not understand MVC and will want to re-encode it to what it believes to be a "compliant" blu ray format.

The next version of DVDa will most likely be upgraded to include MVC authoring.... but at present there are only 3 programs that can do this.... and the cheapest one (net blender) starts at about $6000

If you want to author in 3D then your best bet would be to go SBS 1/2 res. Not so great.... but it's one of the few options available right now.

It can be both tough and expensive when you want to live on the bleeding edge of technology!

Don Landis 05-05-2011 09:00 PM

Quote:


will want to re-encode it to what it believes to be a "compliant" blu ray format.

Only thing to add to that is the "compliant format" will be just one of the image pairs which results in a 2D only BluRay. Got that straight from Sony. I'm not sure about the SBS mode but if I had to guess, it will work because SBS still is 2D where the 2D is interpreted by the monitor and put in a 3D mode manually.

One of the things I learned about the authoring end of 3D is how the z axis adds complexity to the video in the menus. A control that needs to be in there is the collision prevention of the scene getting penetrated by the graphics and vice versa. In Vegas 10D if you add a track or two of graphics over the video it normally rides on top of the 2D video but in 3D it may be on top, and as the scene progresses, collide with graphics and partially occlude it. So, in Vegas you would need to manually take care of that occlusion. According to one Sony demonstrator, this will be a limitation to timeline Blue Ray burning for the full 3D version as the meta data will not be generated. He said this is a limitation that I will discover with Vegas when I start using it. He said that the blue ray burn will not do everything we are used to seeing present day 3D blurays. Sony is working on plugins to aid in this sort of 3D conflict.
Once again, as I've stated before, these things have limitations and its important to know the limits and to produce quality, not to work in the region outside what works.

mrmrmrmr 05-06-2011 01:07 PM

ok. thanks for all this information.

do you know if we'll have a possibility of adding multiple movie clips in one BD with Vegas Pro 10.0D ?
I mean, we'll have no menu feature but shall we have ability of adding multiple video clips ?
Also, is there a possibility of adding both 2d and 3d clips in one BD ?

I am not used to timeline burning so I have doubts.

And one more thing:
if I decide to go with SBS format, which one is a good BD authoring software ?
any software which would support 3D menus in SBS mode ?

mrmrmrmr 05-06-2011 04:43 PM

VegasPro 10.0d is out now !

But I'm really confused.
Which setting should I use for the frame packed 3d format ?
On project properties, which stereoscopic 3d mode should I select ?
obviously it's not SBS or Top/Bottom or anaglyph but whaich one is it ? is it Difference ?

Frank 05-06-2011 05:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post
VegasPro 10.0d is out now !

But I'm really confused.
Which setting should I use for the frame packed 3d format ?
On project properties, which stereoscopic 3d mode should I select ?
obviously it's not SBS or Top/Bottom or anaglyph but whaich one is it ? is it Difference ?
Looks like it doesn't matter which stereoscopic mode you select because when you render it to MVC format there are only two options which are 720P60 and 1080P24.
The only way to get frame packed out is to burn it to bluRay ISO.

mrmrmrmr 05-06-2011 05:14 PM

ok; let's try that way.

btw, if I add multiple movies to the timeline, it produces a BD image with only 1 movie and when viewing there is no chance of selecting the title/movie clip.
is there any method for that ?


And, I also couldn't understand the MPO file support. I add the mpo file to the timeline but it is not identified as 3d photo.
what is it that I'm doing wrong ?

Frank 05-06-2011 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post
ok; let's try that way.

btw, if I add multiple movies to the timeline, it produces a BD image with only 1 movie and when viewing there is no chance of selecting the title/movie clip.
is there any method for that ?
Doesn't look like it.

Quote:
And, I also couldn't understand the MPO file support. I add the mpo file to the timeline but it is not identified as 3d photo.
what is it that I'm doing wrong ?
Probably nothing. You might want to try extracting the left and right jpegs from the MPO first.

mrmrmrmr 05-07-2011 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Probably nothing. You might want to try extracting the left and right jpegs from the MPO first.

But the release notes say that mpo files are supported as multiple stream files.
so I thought that adding them to the timeline would result in 3d stream.

Don Landis 05-08-2011 02:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Looks like it doesn't matter which stereoscopic mode you select because when you render it to MVC format there are only two options which are 720P60 and 1080P24.
The only way to get frame packed out is to burn it to bluRay ISO.


This is not correct! Version 10d has new options in the Render As section which are the MVC you list above. Of course these are useless since we do not have a purpose for them now. Later I see these as intended for the DVD A authoring. ( Note- just thought of a purpose besides immediate 3d authoring. You archive finished projects to use later in pieces for a trailer or part in another project. )

The main purpose of the properties is to set the way your preview and output window display the 3D files and how files are recognized on the timeline. When I did my test run last evening I used anaglyph red / cyan because I don't have a 3D monitor connected to my computer. The blu Ray burn executed flawlessly and gave me a very high quality video on my 3D 110" front projector.

You can edit different 3D compatible format video clips and 2D clips on the timeline. I added sample clips from twin cameras paired in Vegas, with my 3D Bloggie clips and a sample clip from the Sony TD10 all together with 1 second dissolves. Added a popout in front text with motion. Sound was in 5.1.

What you can't do and have it work on playback is add a SBS video clip as it will not reverse the SBS version back to the raw 3D original. When I did this I ended up with a blurry dual image stretched tall render on the blu Ray disk mixed with good 3D clips.

Quote:


btw, if I add multiple movies to the timeline, it produces a BD image with only 1 movie and when viewing there is no chance of selecting the title/movie clip.
is there any method for that ?

In Vegas timeline you can add markers with captions that can be imported to DVD A for chapter/scene stops. I want to test this on my next 3D bluRay test burn. I doubt I'll see the captions but the chapter/scene advance button does work on my remote control with my first test, so who knows, this may be a way to add scene markers you can quickly skip ahead and back with a remote control button.

Haven't played around with MPO yet. On my to do list but low priority.
Try this- right click on the file on the timeline and tell it is a 3D file. I would think you wouldn't need to do that but I have no experience. When all else fails- go to the Help index and look it up. Or, you could do that first and save time.

mrmrmrmr 05-08-2011 12:13 PM

Ok; I'm trying to build a 3D BD iso w,th Vegas Pro 10.0d but it keeps giving me this error, which I don't have a clue of the reason:

"An error occured while creating the media file test.mp4."
"Error 0x80010105 (message missing)"

I am using Vegas Pro 10.0d 32bit version on Windows 7 64bit. I have a quad core cpu (Core i7) and 8GB ram. I tried to decrease the size of the movie but it still gave me this error with a estimated 8GB of movie.

Does anyone have any idea about it ?

mrmrmrmr 05-08-2011 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

This is not correct! Version 10d has new options in the Render As section which are the MVC you list above. Of course these are useless since we do not have a purpose for them now. Later I see these as intended for the DVD A authoring. ( Note- just thought of a purpose besides immediate 3d authoring. You archive finished projects to use later in pieces for a trailer or part in another project. )

Well, would it be possible to use this MVC file as input on a USB memory on my Samsung 3d Bluray player ? Or even directly on the Samsung TV's media player ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

What you can't do and have it work on playback is add a SBS video clip as it will not reverse the SBS version back to the raw 3D original. When I did this I ended up with a blurry dual image stretched tall render on the blu Ray disk mixed with good 3D clips.

I'm not sure about that. When I add a full resolution (3840x1080) SBS movie on the timeline, it accepts this as a 3d movie and I hope it can produce frame packed MVC video from that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

In Vegas timeline you can add markers with captions that can be imported to DVD A for chapter/scene stops. I want to test this on my next 3D bluRay test burn. I doubt I'll see the captions but the chapter/scene advance button does work on my remote control with my first test, so who knows, this may be a way to add scene markers you can quickly skip ahead and back with a remote control button.

How do you add markers ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Haven't played around with MPO yet. On my to do list but low priority.
Try this- right click on the file on the timeline and tell it is a 3D file. I would think you wouldn't need to do that but I have no experience. When all else fails- go to the Help index and look it up. Or, you could do that first and save time.

I tried doing many things but I couldn't find how to tell the timeline that the MPO file is a 3D file. How do you do that ?
When I check the manual, I can't find much about MPO files except seeing that it's supported.

Don Landis 05-09-2011 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post

Ok; I'm trying to build a 3D BD iso w,th Vegas Pro 10.0d but it keeps giving me this error, which I don't have a clue of the reason:

"An error occured while creating the media file test.mp4."
"Error 0x80010105 (message missing)"

I am using Vegas Pro 10.0d 32bit version on Windows 7 64bit. I have a quad core cpu (Core i7) and 8GB ram. I tried to decrease the size of the movie but it still gave me this error with a estimated 8GB of movie.

Does anyone have any idea about it ?

Yes! Switch to 64 bit version of Vegas. There are lots of issues with using 32 bit Vegas on a 64 bit OS. Should be a perfect world but it isn't and the Vegas dev team didn't fully debug the incompatibilities since they make a version that is compatible and damn near flawless.
How do I know this? First I experienced it too and second I asked.

Note- the only reason I wanted to try Vegas 32 bit on my 64 bit computer is to be able to use several old well designed plugins that aren't upgraded to 64 bit. This is the biggest issue most Vegas Veterans have with 64 bit. My personal work around was to edit little clips with the plugin in 32 bit Vegas and then port that prerender to 64 bit for speed and project completion.
Vegas license allows you to have both resident on same computer. But you will have lots of bugs on the 32 bit version unless you install it on a 32 bit OS.

Don Landis 05-09-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:


I'm not sure about that...

By reverting back to original file after the original is converted to SBS, I meant like the conversion was done in a non destructive way. From what I see if you don't have the original and are just converting a copy to SBS then you can't get back to the original. Of course I do agree that you can edit and manipulate the conversion to act like it's the original shape and even with 3D but it won't be the original quality as a clone due to all the conversion artifacts you will generate in the process.

Quote:


How do you add markers ?

Play along the timeline, pause where you want the marker to be and tap your M key. Label it with the Name of choice and enter. Continue playing along to your next marker location and repeat. Always start with the first one at the beginning.

mrmrmrmr 05-09-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Yes! Switch to 64 bit version of Vegas. There are lots of issues with using 32 bit Vegas on a 64 bit OS. Should be a perfect world but it isn't and the Vegas dev team didn't fully debug the incompatibilities since they make a version that is compatible and damn near flawless.
How do I know this? First I experienced it too and second I asked.

Note- the only reason I wanted to try Vegas 32 bit on my 64 bit computer is to be able to use several old well designed plugins that aren't upgraded to 64 bit. This is the biggest issue most Vegas Veterans have with 64 bit. My personal work around was to edit little clips with the plugin in 32 bit Vegas and then port that prerender to 64 bit for speed and project completion.
Vegas license allows you to have both resident on same computer. But you will have lots of bugs on the 32 bit version unless you install it on a 32 bit OS.


thank you. I've just installed 64bit version. However, when I run it (vegas100.exe) immediately the process stops. I can see this by monitoring the process on task manager.
why doesn't it run properly?
what can I check ?

thanks.

Don Landis 05-09-2011 11:09 PM

Did you uninstall the 32 bit version first? I don't know if that is the problem because I have both running on my system here. But when trouble strikes, installing to a clean system with nothing else running in the background is usually the first thing the tech support guys will tell you to do. Another thing to do is shut down virus scanners ( you may disconnect ethernet for safety during the install process, but reconnect for registration. Also try to redownload as your vegas100.exe file may have been corrupted.

mrmrmrmr 05-10-2011 11:54 AM

I tried also after uninstalling the 32bit version.
Re-downloaded 64bit version and tried a clean install.
Due to your suggestion, I've tried removing the virus scanner but the result didn't change.
anything else to try ?

mrmrmrmr 05-14-2011 12:01 PM

I finally managed to make my first 3D BD with 64bit edition. It's nice; but I really would prefer a bd with 3d menus. I hope wecan see the new DVD Architect soon.
Any news about when it will be released ?

Don Landis 05-14-2011 12:41 PM

New versions of Vegas Pro come out in the Fall. I don't know if V11 with a DVDA V6 will have the 3D Menus capability but one of the Sony Creative software people strongly hinted to be on the lookout for it. He then showed me some of the difficulties they were working on to resolve, stuff us mere mortals would never have imagined would be necessary. He also said don't expect the menus to have the robust feature set as BluePrint, rather just the ability to apply the typical existing menu design we have now but for 3D Blu-Ray as well.

ngkou 05-14-2011 01:05 PM

Hello mmmmmrrr,

Could you tell us in details the settings you used to create a 3D Blu Ray (MVC) ?
what was the setting of Compositing mode ? screen or ?
what was the setting in video project? checkerboard, blend , diference or what?

did you play your disc on 3d blu ray player to confirm compatibility?

thanks

mrmrmrmr 05-15-2011 08:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngkou View Post

Hello mmmmmrrr,

Could you tell us in details the settings you used to create a 3D Blu Ray (MVC) ?
what was the setting of Compositing mode ? screen or ?
what was the setting in video project? checkerboard, blend , diference or what?

did you play your disc on 3d blu ray player to confirm compatibility?

thanks

hi,

those settings don't actually matter. when you do the final step (burt iso to disc) you have to choose mvc format. I chose 1920x1080 x24

I played the disco on my SamsungBD-C6900 3D BD player.
my Samsung TV got the 3D signal from HDMI 1.4 cable and switched to 3D mode automatically.

mrmrmrmr 05-22-2011 10:44 AM

I couldn't get any news from sonycreative about new release of dvd architect.
how can we get notified of any possible new release ?

Don Landis 05-22-2011 07:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post

I couldn't get any news from sonycreative about new release of dvd architect.
how can we get notified of any possible new release ?

You'll need to wait like everyone else. Sony will be release and update to Vegas Pro in the Fall.

Meanwhile, I plan to generate chapter stops on my Vegas timeline. This will allow me to sequentially access different programs on my BD.

mrmrmrmr 05-23-2011 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

You'll need to wait like everyone else. Sony will be release and update to Vegas Pro in the Fall.

Meanwhile, I plan to generate chapter stops on my Vegas timeline. This will allow me to sequentially access different programs on my BD.

I've tried adding markers as you've suggested. It works.

Is generating chapter stops something else ?
what are the advantages ?

Don Landis 05-23-2011 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post


I've tried adding markers as you've suggested. It works.

Is generating chapter stops something else ?
what are the advantages ?

When you do DVDA those markers with titles added will be your chapters in the menu structure with an auto assemble mode in DVDA. It a very very fast way to assemble all your scene selection titles in multiple page menus. You will have to allow the markers to export and import in the preferences to do this. For now, BD-R in Vegas burn will only get you a sequential skip forward to the next marker since there are no menus in Vegas DVD or BD burning. Better than nothing.

mrmrmrmr 11-03-2011 04:00 PM

I've seen that Vegas Pro 11 is out.
Does that bring anything new to 3D Bluray creation ?

Wolfgang S. 11-03-2011 04:51 PM

Short anwer: no.

Don Landis 11-03-2011 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmrmrmr View Post

I've seen that Vegas Pro 11 is out.
Does that bring anything new to 3D Bluray creation ?

Long answer- Faster rendering time and better preview speed due to V11 recognizing GPU processing if your hardware is supported.


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