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post #271 of 300 Old 03-22-2014, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

That's good news that your brand new LG 55LA8600 passive-glasses 3D TV is doing frame packed from the TD10 3D HDMI camcorder output. This is AVCHD 2.0 3D support of 1080i60-3D. Compared to LG 3D TVs I looked at a while back, this is an improvement.
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Which more TVs and Projectors do support 3D AVCHD at 60i? Anymore news..
... (for instance my Benq W1070 DOES NOT frown.gif
I have no news on 3D displays & projectors that do support 60i frame-packed 3D though I think the Panasonics would be a good bet.

Yes it's a real nuisance the BenQ W1070 projector doesn't support the 60i frame packed 3D created by the TD10. The picture displayed is recognisable but unusable. [There are three horizontal 'blanking' bars. Above the top bar and below the bottom bar cropped frames appear. Below the top bar is a squashed Left frame, and below the middle bar is a squashed Right frame. My W1070 reports the input as 1920x2228, but will not allow manual selection of frame packed mode.]

This is the result whether connecting the projector to the HDMI output socket on the camera (with the camera HDMI set for frame-packing) or the output of a modern Blu-ray player capable of 60i frame packed 3D such as the Panasonic DMP-BDT230. I find that whether the BTD230 is reading the camera contents via USB, or from a 60i frame packed Blu-ray disc authored using PlayMemories, the picture is the same distorted mess on the BenQ projector. However my 2010 model Panasonic 50" plasma TV (a VT20) will display the 60i frame-packed 3D picture properly. Hence my suggestion Panasonic TVs are probably a safe bet.

I also have a Pioneer BDP-160 Blu-ray player. The file navigation interface is quite poor and clunky. I've found this player can perform an imperfect conversion to 24p frame-packed 3D on-the-fly if reading the Sony HDR-TD10 m2ts file from a USB stick, and with media input type set to to video rather than AVCHD. The real time conversion process appears to drop frames. (This method won't work if connecting the camera via USB as the media type the player selects in that case is AVCHD and the video generated is 60i frame-packed 3D. It also won't work with the player reading 60i frame packed files from a Blu-ray produced using PlayMemories.)
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post #272 of 300 Old 04-13-2014, 03:29 AM
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The MLXXX household is the proud owner of a 65" Sony 4K passive glasses TV bought in Australia (the KD65X9004A). This is likely to be extremely similar in operation to the US model: XBR-65X900A.

This set despite being a 2013 model will not read m2ts files from the TD10 in 3D.
It reads them in 2D. It won't even read a 3D still (an MPO file) from my FinePix REAL 3D W3 camera in 3D, only in 2D.

However this TV will accept 1080i60 frame-packed 3D from my TD10, and display it properly in 3D. The picture is breathtaking: bright, calm, and with minimal ghosting. The fine horizontal line pattern from the FPR passive screen technology is extremely faint, if noticeable at all. The FPR pattern is much finer than with Full HD passive televisions.*
_____________

*Note: unfortunately the 55" Sony 4K set sold in Australia does not appear to use as finely spaced an FPR pattern.
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post #273 of 300 Old 05-25-2014, 12:22 AM
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Hello all, first time posting, after I got SonyHDR-TD20V. Tonnes of questions right away, most of them were solved by me looking through this forum; thank you for such support. Anyway, I need to express my concerns, experience, and questions. Will be happy if anyone can offer help and encouragement.

First thing first. My setup: PC>HDMI>OnkyoReceiver>HDMI>BenqW1070. I'm playing 3D .mkv files, and stereo pairs, that I make from time to time, via CiberLinkPowerDVD (framepacking). My computer screen isn't 3D.

So, today I got TD20. My desire is to edit filmed 3D video fragments on my computer (cut, splice, add music and transitions - simple stuff for home video), store resulting short movie on the computer (get rid of originals), and to be able to play it through my setup. I released that VegasPro13 is the only convenient software to do so (even though I got used to Premiere; unfortunately it doesn't have 3D support whatsoever). My project properties should be "side-by-side half"&progressive scan to get rid of ugly interlacing.

When it comes to rendering the final product "AVCHD 1920x1080 60i 5.1 Surround" profile able to preserve quality and 5.1 sound. Resulting file is .m2ts which I'm fine with as it can be understood by Premiere and common media players.

Lastly, the questions. Is it true that I can't, in similar matter as explained above, save "side-by-side full" 3D? I could never understand why. Is it because TV and projectors can't handle the truth? Or is it because HDMI cable isn't "side-by-side full" compatible?

Another question. When I play 3D content from TD20, where camera slowly pans through the scenery, it looks like frame rate is dropped to 7-10fps. If I play the same scene in 2D or in 3D on the computer (since I don't have 3D monitor I play anaglyph) it doesn't have that lag. When I play movies in .mkv, I don't observe this problem. So, what gives?

Last question. When I play 3D on the projector it goes into [email protected] mode, even though videos that I play are not in 24. Is it normal?

Thank you.

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post #274 of 300 Old 05-25-2014, 06:32 AM
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Is it true that I can't, in similar matter as explained above, save "side-by-side full" 3D? I could never understand why. Is it because TV and projectors can't handle the truth? Or is it because HDMI cable isn't "side-by-side full" compatible?

It's not a question of the truth as in a political debate- It is the technical limitation that most display devices aren't equipped to display SBS full or T/B full without squeezing or distorting the image. The main purpose of using these two FULL formats is to transfer a 3D file from one application to another and not lose resolution in the process. This purpose does not display the file. There are some computer players that will do a conversion of the SBS Full but what ends up being displayed is still a SBS Half or some other resolution limited format behind the scenes.
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When I play 3D content from TD20, where camera slowly pans through the scenery, it looks like frame rate is dropped to 7-10fps...
Not enough information to understand what is going on. Normally, connecting your camcorder to a 3D TV via HDMI will play properly and is the best way to review your shots. Other connections, transfers, and conversions may have their own limiting problems.
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When I play 3D on the projector it goes into [email protected] mode, even though videos that I play are not in 24. Is it normal?
Check to see if your projector is locked in 24fps mode or set to "auto." Most BluRay movies are 1080 24p A few devices will output 3D movies in 720 60p such as the PS3.

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post #275 of 300 Old 05-25-2014, 11:58 PM
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I know Premiere, and would like to use it for editing .mts files, but how to import into Premiere both frames (left and right) from the SonyHDR-TD20? Getting 2D is not a problem, I simply drop the footage into Premiere's timeline, and it sees one of them. But what if I need 3D? Here is what I come up with so far:

1. Drop all filmed episodes into Vegas.

2. Select "side by side half" in properties.

3. Without any editing, save footage as AVCHD 1920x1080 60i 5.1 Surround

4. Drop resulting file into Premiere, and edit it as heart desires.

5. Save as .mp4 1920x1080 29.97 Progressive VBR 2pass target15Mbs AAC 5.1 (I figured, it is small convenient file that has close to original quality and 5.1)

If I need to duplicate the same footage, but in 2D, I simply render Vegas project again but without 3D option, and replace the footage in Premiere. This way, all transitions, music, etc are preserved.

Let me know if you have a better solution.

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post #276 of 300 Old 05-26-2014, 07:23 AM
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Since you already have Vegas, you might be much better off spending a single day of dedicated study to get to know Vegas as your primary editing platform. This way you will be working in all one package and be editing your 2D and 3D at full quality. Vegas Pro is really easy to learn, especially if you just take the time to start from the beginning with a basic tutorial and in a couple hours you will be editing faster than you ever did with Premiere, Final Cut, or any other 3 point editing platform. If you do have lots of plugin's that only work in Premiere and lots of money invested in those then it is tough to make the switch but if you want to edit 3D, then you really should work in a 3D compatible platform. But if you insist on the old film style 3 point editing work flow, you can still do that too in Vegas, it is just a slower process to do the same thing that all timeline editing accomplishes in modern NLE's.

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post #277 of 300 Old 05-26-2014, 10:30 AM
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I'm not familiar with Vegas style workflaw at all. I couldnt find how to make progressive video (I thought I did, but the result wasn't progressive). I couldn't find how to save mp4 with 5.1. I couldn't find how to make keyframes for sound level and balance. Can you suggest the resource that could teach me basic Vegas?
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post #278 of 300 Old 05-26-2014, 10:42 AM
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The Sony Webinars are a good starting point -

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/training/vegaspro
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post #279 of 300 Old 05-27-2014, 12:19 AM
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Some rendering templates do not have everything you want to do turned on and you need to customize your own, then save it as something you will use in the future- In some rare cases a video render type will not permit audio embedding and you are required to render the sound separately, then these files are muxed to the play back format in another program such as DVD Architecture. If you run into these, then you have selected a render output that does not permit audio and video in one file. These options are grayed out.

Adding volume adjustments are done using a volume line added to the sound track. Then you can adjust the volume with keyframes by clicking on that line and then click on it and slide it up and down. Left right panning is also done this way. In addition you can adjust the volume of the entire clip and add fade in and fade out. Vegas even supports hardware control using a Mackie audio board for live play audio level and pan recording to the timeline.

A basic trick in Vegas to learn is right click on something and a popup menu will open you up to many options for what you are clicking on. In addition, if you get confused on something select the ? pointer and here a popup tutorial Help file will open to teach you about something in the program that is confusing.

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post #280 of 300 Old 08-18-2014, 07:32 AM
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Hi,
Really great thread on 3d.


I have been editing films and videos for a long time initially using premier pro but last couple of years Sony Studio.
I have the same issues as most posts, want to edit HDR-TD20 3D both streams in HD and then burn the result to BD with minimum loss of resolution and movement artefacts.


Since upgrading to version 13 I find that there are very limited options in modifying the supplied templates and that to get best quality I need to save to disc and then re-render in DVD architect as the Sony template does not seem to render SBS and unable to force the option (project is set to 3D and SBS).
As others also mentioned SBS half is half the resolution, and Sony studio does not offer the option for frame packing rendering.


Have tried the trial download of Power director but that has most of the 3D templates locket so could not really asses.


Does anyone know of sub £100 renderers who could take the edited footage from Sony studio 13 and render it in the format used by film studio released BD's?


I know Sony do in Blu-print but at 10's of thousands of dollars is miles out of the reach of most of us who have bought into their 3D products.


Any thoughts suggestions please?
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post #281 of 300 Old 09-22-2014, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgioua View Post
Hi,

I have the same issues as most posts, want to edit HDR-TD20 3D both streams in HD and then burn the result to BD with minimum loss of resolution and movement artefacts.


you get minimum loss and framepacked with Vegas Pro with
Tools>Burn disk>bluraydisk. you have option to first render .iso on harddrive or directly burn to disk.
Good luck.
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post #282 of 300 Old 11-10-2015, 12:40 AM
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Anybody has a deeper knwoledge about Sony 3D cam MTS format?
I like to edit my 2D 1080/50p footage with Sony Vegas, copy back to the card,
and playback via hdmi. So no need for separate mediaplayer. Is it possible?

I have a TD30, but i think TD10 work similar here.
I started with just copying a new MTS file to the stream folder, but it doesn't worked of course.
Then i recorded 5 sec with the cam, and replaced that file with an edited, 5 sec MTS,
rendered with the same parameter as the original (1920x1080/50p, AVCHD, Bluray-video, AC3 256kb audio, etc).
The best what i can see is the cam start this video but only play 1 sec, then stops, or freeze.
Why? Should i use other rendering program?

thanks a lot!
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post #283 of 300 Old 01-07-2016, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostya00 View Post
Nevermind I just realized the Side by Side (half or full) .M2TS render isn't actually in 3d because when I watch the movie without glasses I can see the two images are the same distance apart (regardless of how far away the things in the movie are). It creates a side by side render but it's like it's the same left or right stream instead of two different streams.
I had the same problem when I opened mts file to render as 3D mp4 SBS format in Vegas 13. Two images are the same. It took me a long time to solve.

You have to set Stereoscopic 3D Mode for your project before add/open video streams to Render:

Go to File > Properties and navigate into the Stereoscopic 3D Mode drop-down. Choose the desired setting (for me is Side by side (half)).
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post #284 of 300 Old 07-28-2017, 07:16 AM
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I hope somebody of you guys can help a somewhat naive guy, i.e. me...

Since 5 years I make family videos with my HDR-TD20, which has yielded me app. 400 GB of *.MTS files on my Macbook. This archive is intended for later use, when my children have grown up, so I only looked occasionally onto them using VLC in 2D.

But now I would like to watch them on my iPhone 6S+ in a Google cardbox in 3D. But for this I would need an iPhone player app which can play MTS 3D files and display them as a left/right video on the iPhone (I hope my description is understandable).

Unfortunately my search for such a player didn't yield anything... Does anybody have an idea?

Converting those files to a new SBS file format wouldn't be nice because of the sheer number of videos.

If there is no such player, then I might have to consider to play these MTS files on my Macbook generating an HDMI output in SBS or 3D HDMI? For using an Oculus Rift type of display?

But my preferred solution would be playing on the iPhone.

Many thanks for help!

Falk Kuebler
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post #285 of 300 Old 07-28-2017, 10:29 AM
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You'll need to convert files to .mp4 type (mac friendly) to get them to play on iPhone. If these are the raw files are they already side by side files, if so you can use a free tool like handbrake to reencode them. If not you will need to convert them to side by side first. However, there is another free tool called Bino which should be able to play the files on your Mac, you have to select the 3D format and output, but you will need a 3D monitor or else you could select anaglyph output.

I tried using my VR goggles for 3D stills but they really lacked any 3D effect. Also, the images are not laid out in the same aspect ratio, goggles use a square image so the image is squashed. There may be an app now that will correct the image layout but it's something to keep in mind. I assume the image height that the goggles use will also be reduced if the AR is corrected.

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post #286 of 300 Old 07-28-2017, 11:43 AM
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The 3D video in the Sony TD-10, 20 cameras use a special format that is not SBS. It uses a left eye independent view that can be viewed in 2D and a right eye dependent view that cannot be viewed except in a codec that recognizes these formats. The SBS player on an iphone in Google Cardboard requires SBS display when the little head gear goggles icon is selected while playing. This is activated with the meta data for VR.

The TD 20 3D video clips are best viewed using Sony Vegas Pro in 3D mode. The output is then sent to a 3D TV set. But once the mts files are imported to a PC you can use windows media player to play them in 2D as well.

If you are not concerned about editing, you can also connect the hdmi cable to your TD20 and plug in directly to a 3D TV set for 3D viewing. I've done this with my TD10 many times.

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post #287 of 300 Old 07-28-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
...
If you are not concerned about editing, you can also connect the hdmi cable to your TD20 and plug in directly to a 3D TV set for 3D viewing. I've done this with my TD10 many times.
Sending the video from the TD20 works well, but unfortunately I cannot use this as a general solution, because the files meanwhile amount to more than 400 GByte.

At present I didn't yet want to use an editor, but I wanted to continue filling the archive and wait until I get the time and sufficient mental energy to do editing on all.

My present experiments intended just to search an easy way for sometimes digging into my archive and watching something.

Apparently my present system environment isn't well suited for that...

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post #288 of 300 Old 07-29-2017, 05:20 AM
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On a related note, I have a TD10 coming today (super excited!). I know it's been a few years since the heyday of topic discussions on working with the Sony TD10/20/30 lines. What's the final 2017 verdict for the best economical way/worflow for doing simple editing of family videos and getting a quality conversion to 3d bluray 1080/24p? Settled on the 1080/24p since my projector only does 1089/60i as sbs and 3d bluray would be universal, and most likely be supported in future iterations of video players.

BTW Cyberlink is offerering Power Director 13 for free, so hopefully that is still part of the suite you guys recommend.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
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post #289 of 300 Old 07-29-2017, 05:30 AM
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On a related note, I have a TD10 coming today (super excited!).
Good camera. I hade it before my TD20, and it had slightly better 3D effect due to the bigger lens distance, but obviously is a slight bit bulkier.

It has the same MTS file format like the TD20, and if you unexpectedly stumble upon playback software on your Android smartphone, or upon other playback gear, I'm sure you will let us know here...

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post #290 of 300 Old 07-29-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by adam_knox View Post
On a related note, I have a TD10 coming today (super excited!). I know it's been a few years since the heyday of topic discussions on working with the Sony TD10/20/30 lines. What's the final 2017 verdict for the best economical way/worflow for doing simple editing of family videos and getting a quality conversion to 3d bluray 1080/24p? Settled on the 1080/24p since my projector only does 1089/60i as sbs and 3d bluray would be universal, and most likely be supported in future iterations of video players.

BTW Cyberlink is offerering Power Director 13 for free, so hopefully that is still part of the suite you guys recommend.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Yes, Power Director is about the best low cost solution. It accepts MVC type 3D files and you can burn to disc or file-based output. For output modes it has MVC and side by side for both disc and files. One feature it doesn't have is top/bottom format.

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post #291 of 300 Old 08-03-2017, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuebler View Post
Sending the video from the TD20 works well, but unfortunately I cannot use this as a general solution, because the files meanwhile amount to more than 400 GByte.

At present I didn't yet want to use an editor, but I wanted to continue filling the archive and wait until I get the time and sufficient mental energy to do editing on all.

My present experiments intended just to search an easy way for sometimes digging into my archive and watching something.

Apparently my present system environment isn't well suited for that...
Did a software called Picture Motion Browser come with your camcorder? You might try that. It converts the MTS file to M2ts and generates some other files too. Not sure about the Mac though. I normally import my TD10 3D video using Picture motion Browser (PMB)

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post #292 of 300 Old 08-04-2017, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
Did a software called Picture Motion Browser come with your camcorder? You might try that. It converts the MTS file to M2ts and generates some other files too. Not sure about the Mac though. I normally import my TD10 3D video using Picture motion Browser (PMB)
Thanks for pointing to that.

With my TD20 in 2012 came a small Windows software PMHOME.EXE, which I never tried. Most probably this is what Sony at present calls "PlayMemories Home". On their website they now tell that "PlayMemories Home is successor of Picture Motion Browser (PMB) and should be installed instead of PMB".

Looking at the most recent versions on their website I was happy to find even a version 3.4 for Mac, and the most recent version 5.402 for Windows. I am using a virtual windows on my Mac and will eventually compare both (right now unfortunately my virtual windows is down).

In the meantime could you be so kind to point me to the main differences between MTS and M2ts from you practical viewpoint? Thank you.

Falk Kuebler
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post #293 of 300 Old 08-04-2017, 10:43 AM
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In the meantime could you be so kind to point me to the main differences between MTS and M2ts from you practical viewpoint? Thank you.
I only use the PMB utility and not always. As far as I can see, there is no quality difference between the two.

The m2ts that gets generated with PMB also generated a thumbnail in the Vegas Pro editor. The file name is updated to have the date and time of the recording rather than just a number.mts. It may also stitch together very long clips into one but it has been a long time since I rolled a long clip in my TD10 so I don't recall on that last part.

The PMB transfer to your computer takes longer than a simple file copy but the additions I noted can be an advantage when editing.

I hope these utilities and the subsequent ones for the Mac resolve your needs. If nothing else I suppose the use of Parallels or other windows for your Mac can work.

One thing you can do with some of the editors is to generate a Blu Ray of the clips as another option to play anywhere. I've never tried that with just the camcorder and a BR or DVD-R recorder.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
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post #294 of 300 Old 04-25-2018, 10:56 AM
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Can I shoot 720p in 60hz with this camera? If I can I am going to pick one up.
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post #295 of 300 Old 04-25-2018, 01:57 PM
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No, only 3D option is 1080i60.

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post #296 of 300 Old 04-23-2019, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
The 3D video in the Sony TD-10, 20 cameras use a special format that is not SBS. It uses a left eye independent view that can be viewed in 2D and a right eye dependent view that cannot be viewed except in a codec that recognizes these formats. The SBS player on an iphone in Google Cardboard requires SBS display when the little head gear goggles icon is selected while playing. This is activated with the meta data for VR.

The TD 20 3D video clips are best viewed using Sony Vegas Pro in 3D mode. The output is then sent to a 3D TV set. But once the mts files are imported to a PC you can use windows media player to play them in 2D as well.

If you are not concerned about editing, you can also connect the hdmi cable to your TD20 and plug in directly to a 3D TV set for 3D viewing. I've done this with my TD10 many times.
Sorry to necro a thread, but are you saying you use Sony Vegas simply as a viewer for these files?
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post #297 of 300 Old 04-24-2019, 06:17 AM
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About the headache attributed to 3D

Another way to watch videos obtained with TD10, 20 or 30 at the highest resolution in 3D with Cardboard is:
You edit the video left/right full frame at 3840x1080 and without losing any resolution, then you must view the mp4 file on a smartphone with good resolution. I view them in my sony Z5 premium of 4K held in a glasses "ColorCross" the result is total immersive without grid in the screen.

About the headache attributed to 3D
A problem of 3D in television is that it projects the right and left images in consecutive times it gets dizzy, This does not happen if we project them simultaneously to each eye.
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post #298 of 300 Old 04-24-2019, 09:44 AM
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only active tv-s
with passive its also simultaneously
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post #299 of 300 Old 04-24-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Spektre99 View Post
Sorry to necro a thread, but are you saying you use Sony Vegas simply as a viewer for these files?
Probably just referring to VP's ability to view project assets in 3D while editing or just to view. Once you dump your card you've lost the ability to view them in 3D, unless you dump the files back on card and view on camera or HDMI out to 3D display.

On another note:

With 1080i60 there is a limitation of full resolution support mainly because MVC doesn't support interlaced recording and output. How are you guys viewing files in full resolution or are you settling for half resolution? There is also AVCHD 3D Blu ray discs which supports 1080i but this again is half resolution.

Other options include converting to 720p60 MVC. A full resolution file output could be made as well for viewing on 4K screens but would not be compatible with non 4K screens. Then what I've always done is just outputting half resolution files so they are compatible with all screens. Myself, I don't see much difference between full or half resolution.

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post #300 of 300 Old 04-26-2019, 08:05 AM
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Well, I guess AVCHD is full frame packed not half resolution, got that wrong. I was thinking it was like a side by side blu ray but that's not right. It's full frames when recorded on the cameras that have AVCHD and its MVC compression. Only drawback is it is a disc file structure like Blu ray. I think my old Pioneer player supports those discs. I mostly don't burn filmed content any more so it's not a disc-less method, maybe a BD player would play the files though off disc but that's sort of the same issue, I can't play it from my Plex server like half resolution files.

I think AVCHD makes the most sense with interlaced footage if you want full resolution, just have to have a player that supports those discs. I've never burned one yet, I think Power Director supports it, I can't remember on VP, have to check.

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