GoPro 3D System for two HERO3+ Black Edition cameras - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 1559 Old 02-22-2018, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy3d View Post
I am curious if it is consistent (after the first power-on). If it is, you can always make them in sync (smaller than 4ms) by adding some delay in powering up one of the cameras. Anyway, in the final version you would probably need DC power source (instead of AC) and use only power cables on DC side of your power supplies.



There can be many reasons why it happens. One reason could be slightly different power supplies for both cameras. You can check if this is the case by flipping the power supplies and measuring again the sync. If it changes (e.g. going from 4ms to let's say -4ms or some other value), then the reason are different power supplies. Otherwise there might be some difference inside both cameras.
Have you checked if you have exactly the same settings on both cameras? Have you checked all menu items?

Damir
So I have tested with single battery 7.2v nimh with a single switch with the DC cable side of the AC to DC converter cables and they do not turn on at same time always. The power lights are sometimes off. When they are on together they are still out of sync. So there must be more variance in their startup cycles happening inside the camera.

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post #1532 of 1559 Old 05-12-2018, 08:50 AM
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Going to be making major changes to my GoPro kit next week:

Current kit:
2 GoPro 3+ with 3D sync and U/W housing.

2 GoPro 4 Silver Cameras

1 GoPro 4 Black with U/W housing


I will be giving my 2 4Silver cams to my grandsons and the 4B to my daughter& son-in-law. My son-in-law has a GoPro 3+Black now so this will allow all 4 to have their own camera.

I will be adding the new GoPro 6 Black to my kit.


While on the most recent cruise, GoPro held a seminar on the Hero 5 and 6 cameras that I attended. I was significantly impressed by the image stabilization and the ability to shoot flat. The fact that it is water proof to 33ft was also impressive, ie no housing necessary. Since I don't go deeper any more that depth limitation is not a problem. Good for my snorkel activities.
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post #1533 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 06:22 PM
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Gopro fun facts- Or not so fun!

I just returned from a dive trip in Cozumel. For the second year in a row, I've had a Gopro Dual Hero 3D housing leak and drown a camera. Both times, I was able to save the camera that sits higher in the housing. Needless to say, I am meticulous about my gear. When I went down on the first dive, I watched the housing closely for the first 10-15 minutes to make sure no water was getting in. After that, I stopped checking. When I came up, I saw about 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of the housing. Same thing which happenned last year with another GP housing. As I was down there to work on a film for a 3D theater being built in Cozumel, who's people had also paid for this trip, I was carrying a backup set of cameras in a new spare housing, so the filming was able to continue with the combination of the GP and a housed JVC-TD1 which it is mounted on. Ironically, the faulty housing was my backup from last year and had only the one week of use from the prior year.

Last year, I was never certain where the leak came from, but this year it was apparent that it had to be from the control buttons on the housing. It didn't take on water until I started pushing the shutter on and off and turning the cameras on and off to conserve battery power. When I contacted Gopro about getting replacement o-rings for the control buttons, I was told that they don't sell that part or in any way make it available. I brought the housings to our dive shop which has an outstanding tech to see if he could disassemble these buttons and change or service the o-rings, if I could supply the parts. He said he definitely could and would and would pressure test it. He also told me that these control button o-rings on Gopros were notorious for this problem and he could never get GP to supply him with the parts. He said that GP was trying to get him to carry their line at his shop, but he turned them down over this sort of reliability issue.

GP support did the same thing they did last year and agreed to send me another free housing. I thanked them, but made it clear that this is just putting a bandaid on the problem if I can't replace the part every year. Also, same as last year, I'm having to go one Ebay to buy another 3+ Black. Strange thing, is that Gopro sells a million and one parts. New o-rings for their underwater housings shouldn't be rocket science.

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post #1534 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 06:58 PM
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That could get expensive replacing Go Pro's, could you just measure and buy the O rings from some place like applerubber.com and buy a bulk batch? Or is it a special part?

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post #1535 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 07:03 PM
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The tech told me that he tried to find the o-rings, but he couldn't and concluded that they are a GP proprietary part.
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post #1536 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 07:32 PM
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I just took a look at my Hero 2 case and took the o-ring out for a better look. Looks more like a rubber bushing than a typical o-ring. A narrow in-set gap in the middle.

I found this: Go-Pro Push Button Rings

Edit: well that may not be it, looks like similar setup though for the kit. Has new springs, washer and orings. Doesn't specifically say it's for GoPro Housings, not sure if it would work.

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post #1537 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for that link, but when I looked at it, it's pretty clear that they're for Ikalite housings. I appreciate your efforts!
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post #1538 of 1559 Old 07-02-2018, 08:19 PM
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Yeah, that seems to be the case. The kit looks like similar parts, but I can't tell by the photo since it doesn't show the side of the o rings so I can't tell if they're the same and I'm not sure if the Hero 2 is same as 3 case. Thought these might be a universal replacement kit, the knock off underwater cases I have look the same as official Hero case. But without the parts I couldn't say for sure.

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post #1539 of 1559 Old 07-03-2018, 09:52 AM
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Barry- Glad to see you made it back OK. Get the stitches out yet?

My info is pretty dated but when I was building underwater camera housings in the 80's, I used Ikelite controls. These all used X rings, not O rings. X rings are designed to be packed with heavy silicone grease.

I'm not sure what the GoPro push controls use but I've never had any leaks. Of course unlike my deep camera housings, I've never had my GoPro rig deeper then 20 ft. Most of the dives have been less than 6 ft. while snorkeling with a reach pole.

The o-ring set in that link definitely so not look the right size.

I have an old housing that got scratched so I have been using it for parts. I pulled one apart and the seal is an o-Ring. I marked in the photo several inspection points to look for trouble. Most likely it is lacking proper grease packing. After inserting the o-ring into the cleaned plastic housing the entire o-ring should be packed to the surface of the o-ring cylinder with heavy silicone high vacuum grease. The kind used in laboratories for vacuum seals. It doesn't extrude under water pressure/vacuum. Then insert the spring and spring plate and next insert the button as long as there is no scratches on the shaft. From the inside push the tiny e-ring back on the shaft. There is a groove where it goes. The hardest part is getting that tiny e ring off and on the shaft. Much easier with an 3-4mm e ring pliers.

The silicone grease that comes in the ikelite tubes is not stiff enough, IMO. I used this:
https://www.amazon.com/Corning-High-...+vacuum+grease

The o-ring looks to be a 2mm ID by 5mm OD rough measurement. I'd find one that is a bit smaller than 2mm ID
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post #1540 of 1559 Old 07-03-2018, 11:34 AM
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Hi Don, got the stitches out this morning! If I end up with a scar on the follicley challenged back of my head, rather than the true boring cause- slipping on a tile floor- Ryan and I have decided it would be much more interesting to say that we were attacked by 3 guys, a beer bottle was broken over my head, but we kicked their asses. Sounds more interesting!

As for the GP button seals, the tech told me that aside from the drying/cracking potential problem, they have a tendency to do what he called "set." That is, permanently flatten out. He said this is the main problem he's seen.
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post #1541 of 1559 Old 07-04-2018, 08:10 AM
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If the rubber o-ring is cracking then someone was using petroleum based grease, not silicone. That is wrong, but I have heard similar complaints in the past. Years ago Nikonos cameras came with a small tube of Petroleum grease but their seals were made of Buna rubber which is resistant. The rubber used in these GoPro cameras is not. Must use heavy silicone based grease and the rubber will not crack, harden or take flattened shape over time.

I think the other problem is the grease used by GoPro is lower viscosity and could be washed out eventually. That's why I recommend High Vacuum Silicone that just doesn't not wash out with water.

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post #1542 of 1559 Old 07-04-2018, 10:26 AM
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On the JVC TD1 housing, every year, upon returning home, I always soak it overnight in the bathtub, and then lube all the control arm shafts with 100% silicone, then work the shafts in and out to lube the rubber in the shafts channel. This has proved successful so far. With the GP, since I don't have the precision tools or expertise with such tiny things- and my dive shop tech does- he will be disassembling the buttons and inspecting the o-rings on the new housing that didn't leak, doing all necessary cleaning and silicone lubing- if he determines that they have not set. On the one that had been used the previous year that did leak, he will be replacing the parts with ones taken from an unused single GP underwater housing which I had laying around. I also found that BH still had some of the discontinued Dual housings in stock. They are discounted to $125., so I ordered 2 of them. GP is also sending me another free one, which first they said they no longer said they had any of left. However, a subsequent more persistent customer service rep I later talked to did locate one. So, at least I have this covered for awhile.

A couple of days ago, I bought, what looked like, a good used 3+ Black on Ebay for $72. This seems to be about right for decent used ones, these days.
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post #1543 of 1559 Old 07-04-2018, 12:14 PM
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Yes, you have it covered for awhile. Recall at your suggestion I bought the dual housing repair kit and never opened it. That's for the big custom seal and other stuff. Haven't really looked closely at what's all in it.

Regardless of the condition of your current o-rings, I would be replacing them when the button is pulled out. The cost of these are quite low so I would buy ISO-004 and Standard size AS568 -003 and one size above and one below to be sure. Apple Rubber seems to be a good resource.

Yeah, it does take a steady hand and some magnifying head gear to work on this stuff these days. Hardest repair I have ever done was replace the ribbon cable on the gimbal of my dji Mavic Drone. Replacing the battery in my iphone was tricky too.

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post #1544 of 1559 Old 07-30-2018, 11:17 AM
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Not 3D but this is my new GoPro Hero6 kit. Finally found a case to fit the new G6 Gimbal with the camera, U/W housing, holder frame, filters and spare batteries, chargers. Basically everything plus I can grab it out of the case and begin shooting in less than 15 seconds with gimbal. I'm getting the former GoPro 3+ Black 3D Underwater kit ready as well. Doing some slight modifications since this one nolonger needs the GoPro Hero4's.
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post #1545 of 1559 Old 07-30-2018, 12:49 PM
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I see BH still has the Gopro 3+ 3D system--includes the sync cord--in stock: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ystem_for.html


Could be they just haven't updated this yet, but I've found BH to be pretty reliable about stating no stock available or out of stock.
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post #1546 of 1559 Old 09-20-2018, 10:21 AM
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This is, of course, off topic but I just wanted to share a link to a time lapse film I just completed after 5 months of filming at locations in 4 states, and countless hours of post time. Needless to say, it wasn't filmed with a Gopro! Now, it's on to editing the 3D content from this summer's Cozumel trip which was largely filmed with a GP.
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post #1547 of 1559 Old 09-20-2018, 11:11 AM
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Looks great! Amazing how much our eyes miss when you look up at night.

Looks like people ascending a mountain at 3:40, pretty cool.
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post #1548 of 1559 Old 09-20-2018, 11:36 AM
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Gratulation, thanks for sharing.
I can imagine how much work this need.
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post #1549 of 1559 Old 09-20-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
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Gratulation, thanks for sharing.
I can imagine how much work this need.
Oh yea, an incredible amount of time and work, but all enjoyable!
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post #1550 of 1559 Old 04-01-2019, 09:09 PM
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Ok, time to dig up this thread again. I finally got a GoPro for 3D about 5 years late, oh well. Gave up on the whole 180 3D camera thing, waiting for them to release something that would work there were a couple I was interested in but I'm done pondering on those. Just not going to work for 3D, just too wide angle plus the resolution is a split frame.

I pretty much already had everything I wanted for 3D cameras, and last year picked up a couple TD10's this year two 3+black cams and the hero case with sync for 3D. Also, ordered a second Gopro housing and case and will order a couple more cameras too. Might as well get a backup. I'll probably just use them for mounted filming like on hood of car stuff like that.

I had picked up a couple knock off cameras few years ago, those had LCD screens which was nice, but the quality was not so great and no sync so looking forward to better cameras. And since the 3 plus Black models are the final models to support 3D, that's all I was interested in. I may send in my second pair of cameras when I get them and get the lenses swapped out for a regular wide angle, less fish eye.

So what are your favorite recording modes? I think I'll likely use 2.7k24p, sounds the best, it's 17:9 but it looks like it will be the highest quality. I need to take it out and run some test footage with it and see how it does.
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post #1551 of 1559 Old 04-01-2019, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Ok, time to dig up this thread again. I finally got a GoPro for 3D about 5 years late, oh well. Gave up on the whole 180 3D camera thing, waiting for them to release something that would work there were a couple I was interested in but I'm done pondering on those. Just not going to work for 3D, just too wide angle plus the resolution is a split frame.

I pretty much already had everything I wanted for 3D cameras, and last year picked up a couple TD10's this year two 3+black cams and the hero case with sync for 3D. Also, ordered a second Gopro housing and case and will order a couple more cameras too. Might as well get a backup. I'll probably just use them for mounted filming like on hood of car stuff like that.

I had picked up a couple knock off cameras few years ago, those had LCD screens which was nice, but the quality was not so great and no sync so looking forward to better cameras. And since the 3 plus Black models are the final models to support 3D, that's all I was interested in. I may send in my second pair of cameras when I get them and get the lenses swapped out for a regular wide angle, less fish eye.

So what are your favorite recording modes? I think I'll likely use 2.7k24p, sounds the best, it's 17:9 but it looks like it will be the highest quality. I need to take it out and run some test footage with it and see how it does.
Congratulations! I suspect that you'll quickly come to the conclusion that it is far better than any of your other cameras. I know I feel that way about mine. Yes, there's no zoom, and the IA is a bit smaller, but the dynamic range is head and shoulders above the other cameras.

To maximize what the camera is capable of doing, the 2.7K mode is by far the best. I almost always use medium FOV, as i dont really care for wide. I also use 30fps, as I really don't like 24 fps in general, but that's an individual thing. Also, I prefer 720 60p to 1080 24p for BD, but again, that's an individual preference. 2.7K 30 converts beautifully to 720 60p for BD! For BEST results, you should always use Protune mode- it has a higher bitrate than the standard mode. I always use the WB and color modes in Protune set to raw and flat. Again, this will give you substantially more dynamic range. I like doing my own grading and there's great versatility using these modes. Additionally, using them will eliminate any color and WB disparity which my occassionally exist between the right and left cameras. Don, who does longer features than I do, has done well with one of the standard Gopro color modes and this workflow serves him well, but for my style of shooting, I prefer using both raw and flat and working with the very flat profile of the clips.

Definitely, a good idea buying some extra 3+ Blacks, as I suspect that good ones will be much harder to come by in the coming years.
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post #1552 of 1559 Old 04-01-2019, 11:09 PM
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Yes, I remember the quality is pretty good from the footage I've seen, they shoot at higher bit rate plus the larger 12mp sensor, no zoom but I think from mounted position it is fine. It should intermix well with my larger Panasonic 3DA1 which records at 22mbps for each frame. I think the next thing I want to get is an external recorder for that camera and have better compression codecs but that will have to be another time.

I was looking at the manual, I had the same thought on color, flat and raw and do you have sharpness on low? The menu's are not fun to navigate thru but I'm getting used to it.

And the stereo base, I think is fine. On my NoPro's I experimented for a time widening them out but I think that just makes it worse because you have too much disparity then. I only plan on using the Hero case and fixed stereo base, so I don't plan on getting any other cases or extension sync cables. Early on I thought they were too close but I understand more about that now. My Hydrogen phone has a 12.5mm stereo base cameras and that really is too close but it's great for close up shots. The screen sort of adds some to it, but I tend to think it just looks flat on that screen. My Fuji pics look great on it and the 3D1, have to cherry pick them, some have too much crosstalk.

I want to try out stills on GoPro too. I see it has photo mode or I could grab some frame stills from 4K 15 mode. Time consuming though.

Attaching the manual pages on these modes for anyone who's interested.
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post #1553 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 12:34 AM
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I set the sharpness on medium and very often don't have to do any additional sharpening in post. Also, you should get and use the tablet/smartphone app from Gopro. I use Android devices and download it from the Google App Store, but I'm sure it's equally available from Apple as well. It is excellent! Once you pair the cameras with the phone/tablet, you can do all your settings using the app. It's great, it's easy! I never ever use those awful cumbersome settings on the camera itself. The app will also recognize the paired cameras in the 3D case and set them both simultaneously. You really should use it. You'll be happy you did!

I also feel that the IA was well thought out when this 3D system was designed and it has no need to be wider.

For non underwater use, I bought a small, optical viewfinder which I made a velcro backed plastic mount for which fits nicely on the camera. A very simple solution. For underwater use, I mount the Gopro on top of my larger housing for the JVC TD1 and align it with a viewfinder I have in that housing.

Another very cool thing about shooting at 2.7K 16:9 is that you've got very good cropping room, while still maintaining true 1980 res.

I really believe that when shooting at 2.7K in Protune, particularly when using raw/flat mode, that this system offers the highest image quality of any 3D system any of us own. I know it stands head and shoulders above my other 3D cameras- JVC TD1 & Panasonic Z10000. FAR better dynamic range and much sharper!!
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post #1554 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 08:14 AM
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I use the same settings as Barry, except auto WB, etc. Having the app on your phone makes it easier to make settings in the field since the displays, etc. are very small. I made a 3D printed rig that allowed me to shoot normal eye separation and flip the cameras over for wider separation. You get more depth that way, but also a sense of miniaturization, so I normally leave it on close separation as was the original design. For wider separation, you have to get another cable and slightly modify it.

See this link from further back in these threads: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/192-3...l#post54796893

I took the Gopro 3+ 3D camera with me to an African safari in May of 2016 and shot a lot of 3D with it. I had the 3D printed setup hanging down on a strap, so it was with me all the time, even when I shot with my DSLR. I don't have a viewfinder on it, and had to train myself previously to be able to point it correctly and keep it level. Panning is the nemesis with all of these cameras, and you have to learn to do it very slowly. By having the gopros out of the gopro 3+ stereo plastic case, you get much better sound as well.

I also have been playing around with 720px60fps 3D Bluray per Barry's suggestion, and have to say, with the right stabilization, it looks fantastic and butter smooth. 1080px24fps has just too much judder and the difference in apparent resolution is minor, especially when you realize that 720p 3D bluray gets upscaled to 1080p 3D in most projectors now, and on my 4K living-room 3D TV, it looks 4K.

By shooting in 2.7K 30fps, you can easily create your own zooms and still maintain resolution, by doing a layouter keyframe zoom in. As you zoom, you also have to keyframe-correct the 3D separation. I use Edius for all of my gopro videos and find that the stabilizer built-in using max rolling shutter correction works best to get rid of the wavy horizon wing flapping. Barry uses Mercalli, but I haven't found it as stable for what I do.

I'm currently redoing all of my gopro videos that I made for youtube and 1080 blurays into 720px60fps blurays. I'm currently working a complete compilation of all of my Africa Safari videos, Fuji W3 stills, plus some 2d to 3d video and stills, and 2D video set back into the 3D window. I have over one and half hours so far. I've got lots of titles and overdubs to add, so it's going to take another month or so to complete

I use Cyberlink Powerdirector to do some 2D to 3D conversions and also 3D Titles and bring that into Edius. Then do the whole thing in Edius and render to an MP4 dual-stream 3D file. Import that into Powerdirector and produce a 3D bluray with menu. Powerdirector is definitely the way to go for creating 3D blurays.

You can see my two-camera setup in the picture below. We visited a Masai Tribal Village, and I was jumping with the Masai women. It is a ritual during their singing of tribal songs. The men can jump up to 3 feet. It's a sight to see.
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post #1555 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 10:48 AM
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What's amazing is the 3 plus models are 5 years old now and they have a ton of settings. Unfortunately no 4K, unless you want 12 or 15fps which isn't enough, it might be ok for still grabs though, haven't tried yet.

I haven't pulled the cards yet to check, ran a little test footage last few days, but I have the left camera inverted in menu, does that just change the menu so it is flipped upright or does that also change the video recording so you don't have to flip/invert in post? And if it does, does that mean the rolling shutter is now the same since they're both upright?

The wing flapping, I'm going to likely just avoid panning with these altogether or minimize that movement.

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post #1556 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 11:40 AM
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The video will be upright, though, the camera is upside down. I once built a side-by-side mount using both cameras upright, thinking I could get more separation, but the one camera would film upside-down, and the shutter goes in the opposite direction, so that didn't work well when I flipped the camera image in post. There is no shutter, by the way, the sensors simply get scanned line by line from top to bottom. Obviously done very fast, but if you move the camera, it slightly warps the images as I've found out. That's why I use the Edius stabilizer with full rolling-shutter correction. That seems to avoid that pretty much. The gopros 5 on up have adjustable shutter speeds, but the 3+ does not. Theoretically, a slow shutter should avoid a lot of judder, and that's what the pros do when shooting 24fps movies--as I've read. However, slower shutters also cause rolling shutter stretch.

You probably already understand this, but here is a good explanation for rolling shutter issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter Spatial distortion is a big issue with panning.

Something I haven't tried but I've read about is to attach a weight to the bottom of the 3+ case. This adds heft to the camera and keeps the image more stable. I've had to learn how to walk with the camera, since walking causes a shifting body motion. You have to try to glide your feet without shifting balance. I'm still not there yet, but close. You already have discovered these issues with the 3D cameras you have, probably.
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post #1557 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 11:42 AM
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You don't need to invert anything with the camera settings or in post. It's all done automatically when the cameras are paired with the sync cable. I'd advise you to get the app, and do all your settings with the app, which will control both camera settings simultaneously. When you take the card content to your computer, there is no inversion.
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post #1558 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 11:54 AM
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As for panning, you shouldn't be afraid of it or avoid it. Just do it carefully and you'll get very good results. Actually, the main thing I concentrate on even more than the panning speed- where I'm pretty confident- is making sure not to do any guick forward/backward motions with the camera, as that will cause a real jello look.
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post #1559 of 1559 Old 04-02-2019, 12:12 PM
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Yeah, I guess it's really the tilt up/down that would cause the flapping, panning will increasing stretching of objects like trees and buildings. I've got a stabilizer for smaller cameras, takes up to 2lbs. Will have to test it out on that.

That's good to know on the invert, so it's all auto by the sync system, that's nice. I guess I'll go back and turn it off in menu.

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