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post #1 of 68 Old 11-19-2014, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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360 Degree 3D Camera For 3D VR Headset

I saw this article today and thought this could be quite interesting for fans of 3D. Put me down in the interested column

http://connect.dpreview.com/post/402...or-vr-headsets

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post #2 of 68 Old 11-23-2014, 06:32 PM
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I mean, it's cool and everything, but I seek the same level of perspective control as a VR computer game- at least to be able to stand up, lean, tilt your head sideways.

This is currently just a few panoramic screens stitched together so you can pan your head. To do full VR they would need to scan the data in 3D and somehow convert that all into a format that a consumer PC could render in 3D in realtime.

I don't know if they'll ever get there with true live action filmmaking, but today's game consoles can render acceptable CG-quality with life-like mo-cap and visuals:


Another advantage to that is you can "film" the full 360 degree view without having to worry about the film crew or lighting being in the shot.

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post #3 of 68 Old 11-23-2014, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
I mean, it's cool and everything, but I seek the same level of perspective control as a VR computer game- at least to be able to stand up, lean, tilt your head sideways.

This is currently just a few panoramic screens stitched together so you can pan your head. To do full VR they would need to scan the data in 3D and somehow convert that all into a format that a consumer PC could render in 3D in realtime.

I don't know if they'll ever get there with true live action filmmaking, but today's game consoles can render acceptable CG-quality with life-like mo-cap and visuals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5xxi6cjjU

Another advantage to that is you can "film" the full 360 degree view without having to worry about the film crew or lighting being in the shot.
I don't think this is intended for live action movies so much as a way to virtually travel to scenic events & areas of the world with VR. Of course, if it ever really gets off the ground, who knows what will come of it. I find the whole concept quite intriguing. The head scratcher for me is, if they ever really marketed the camera to us semi ordinary folks, how the hell, and with what would you need to edit it. Definitely, more horsepower than I currently possess

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post #4 of 68 Old 04-17-2019, 10:39 AM
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While not in 3D, I thought given the news of Notre Dame burning, many would enjoy these 360 degree views prior. Also views of other historic places as well.

https://www.facebook.com/360visio/

You have to click on the pictures, hold down the mouse button and move the mouse around to see the 360 views, in case you are new to this...
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post #5 of 68 Old 05-01-2019, 11:02 PM
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Most of you know I added the Oculus Rift to my edit computer, specifically to view the Adobe Premiere timeline to verify 3D 360° editing scenes. It's been working very well but the one serious limitation of the Rift is there is no way to view the You Tube 3D content on the Rift.

Enter the Oculus Go. This is mainly designed for viewing media in 3D 360 and 180 VR off the internet and local storage on board. I added this HMD a couple weeks ago and it is amazing quality. It is also wireless self contained so no computer required. But is it very weak for high quality games compared to a computer connected Rift. For an HMD that does both, Oculus just introduced the Quest which is designed to be a self contained Gaming and Media HMD. I preordered one of these for the Home Theater. Not that I am into games that much but it will keep my grandsons from invading my Rift on the edit computer when they visit. The Quest also has a much higher quality image specification with twin OLED panels. Shipping date for the Quest is for May 21.

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post #6 of 68 Old 05-19-2019, 09:26 PM
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Update to my 3D camera collection:

I added an Insta360 EVO recently. Like the Vuze XR, it also shoots 5.7K30 fps plus some better slo mo modes. It is a foldable camera body that can shoot 3D VR180 as well as 2D VR360. I plan to use it exclusively for 3D shooting since it has better image stabilization similar to the insta360 One X. The EVO also has HDR Video and stills and can shoot at higher bit rate of 100Mbs in raw form as well as 150Mbs rendered form.

Note- HDR only works for video when the camera is locked down on a tripod. I made the mistake of testing it handheld and because the way these cameras create HDR is by shooting 3 frames at different EV and then combines them for better highlights and shadow detail. This unfortunately results in a blurred image if the camera or objects in the scene are moving. Nothing can move for HDR to do its best work.

The camera will shoot about 53 minutes with its internal battery. Requires a V30 card with 90mbs write speed uSD Card. I can shoot at 100Mbs using a 128GB uSD card with a power bank handle for 168 minutes continuously.

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post #7 of 68 Old 05-20-2019, 12:53 PM
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Don, I saw the ads for it, but what format is the video in out of the camera? SBS full frame or half-frame?
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post #8 of 68 Old 05-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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The simple answer is two INSV 5.7K30fps images. They come in separate file pairs. Have to use proprietary software to see the images after pairing them. Once paired you see two squares side by side. Then you export them to a single 5.7K 3D MP4 that can be viewed as 5.7K per eye on an HMD.

You have to render the video files with software either on a modern smartphone or on a computer. The camera stores two full square frame 5.7K30 fps or 4K faster fps for slo mo. So yes it is VR180, not traditional 3D SBS half for flat screen. Actually it is two full frame 5.7K images side by side in MP4 after rendering in the software. The actual camera sees 210° I recall so the viewing is actually wider than my Oculus Rift or Go can see forward. This means that the EVO is actually better suited for the New 8K Pimax that sports much wider FOV than the Oculus. For me, like VR360, I have to turn my head to see each side of the 3D image because of the Oculus FOV limitation.

The one problem with the extreme wide angle of view is that I can see the tip of the other camera lens at the side edge of the image. This can be cropped out in post.

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post #9 of 68 Old 05-21-2019, 01:37 PM
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Wow, that is some FOV. I'm thinking, based on the resolution, that each eye could be zoomed in and lens distortion fixed to have reasonable normal looking 16:9 as well. I have the ability to do that in Edius with some NewBlue filters I have, that I got for Powerdirector, and they actually plugin to Edius as well. I am doing that with my gopro3+ videos taken at 2.7k and that works. Another toy--can't wait

And, I ordered one of these from the company website--being sent from China, though, ugh. Should be here next week, they say.
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post #10 of 68 Old 05-22-2019, 07:25 AM
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It's better than that Bob. All VR has the capability to edit for 16x9 no WA distortion, 1x1 square, 2.35 cinema, VR360 to VR180 in the software on the iphone/Android, or in post with the immersive tools in Adobe Premiere Pro. You can also shoot everything in VR360 and get better than gimbal stabilization now, then in post decide what 16x9 or other flat screen FOV you want in your story, smooth 180° pans to a selfie point of view Simulated Drone shots using a 4 ft selfie stick and the3 camera and stick become invisible, and some new formats never before offered such as Tiny Planet view. This is why so many videographers shooting action video will choose the 5.7K 30 fps ( except when needing time compression) for all their work now.

I still am using GoPro Hero 6 and 7 for my videos out the tour bus windows on a gimbal but I may switch to the EVO now without a gimbal and then just reframe the VR180 to 16x9 since it shoots the best 3D image stabilized I have.

Of course, most of my viewers now prefer the VR360 because they are using HMD for VR.

Speaking of HMD- My new Oculus Quest arrived yesterday and it is much higher image quality than the GO. And I thought the Go was great. I can still see the screendoor effect even with the 6K H resolution between the 2 OLED panels but but the pixel size is half what the GO does. The Quest is also designed for gaming if that is your need and it doesn't require a computer, only a phone to set it up. I will still use the Oculus Rift because it's purpose is to see the VR360 from the Adobe Premiere timeline playback in HMD 4K VR360. Just can't do that with a flat screen monitor.

Here is a video I just posted using the GoPro Hero 6 for the bus shots and the VR360 OneX for the walking shots. You can see the camera and stick in my shadow. The wind was pretty strong causing the camera to whip around but the Flow State Stabilization did a great job. The bus window shots from the Gopro in 4K30 were edited to fit the 5.7K 360° spherical world. It's view was to the left since I was sitting on the driver's side of the bus. On a flat screen the view may need to pan to the left with the navigation mouse. This was edited for HMD optimum experience.


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post #11 of 68 Old 05-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
The simple answer is two INSV 5.7K30fps images. They come in separate file pairs. Have to use proprietary software to see the images after pairing them. Once paired you see two squares side by side. Then you export them to a single 5.7K 3D MP4 that can be viewed as 5.7K per eye on an HMD.
Don, I stand corrected about these not being true 5.7k imaging if they produce two files one for each eye at 5760x2880. It was my understanding they internally rendered a single side by side file to that resolution, so that each was 2880x2880x2, so that's why I claimed they were not full 5.7k resolution, but if each lens produces a file that's full 5.7k then it's true they are 5.7k at least with the raw imaging, I suppose there is some image that is lost with stitching in post. So you have the two raw files at 5.7k and you render to a usable 5.7k total file which is then half resolution, that's not unlike how I produce 4K3D which I still consider UHD resolution although half when viewable.

I was relying on just the specs on their spec page so first hand report from you is helpful.

I've been toying with the idea of picking up a PS VR, it's dropped in price now to 250.00 so I might have to pick one up. The resolution is less now than other brands but I don't have the hardware to feed it anyway like a high end PC. I already have a PS4 Pro. They're 960x1080/eye 1920x1080 resolution total but they're pretty comfortable and they work well if you already wear glasses.

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post #12 of 68 Old 05-22-2019, 01:37 PM
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tom, there still is one weakness in the full 5.7K shot by VR. If you decided to edit the video in VR360 for an HMD, now you spread that file over the entire inside of a sphere but you can only view a section of it as a time. At the best it is about 25% of the pixels in the FOV. So while you were wrong on what the file size is, you were right that it can't be viewed as a true pixel density of a 5.7K 16x9 file. As we go from VR360 to VR180, now your image has true 5.7K pixel density. This unfortunately can only be truly seen with an HMD and those are still consumer affordable at 1440 x 1600 per eye like the Oculus Quest for $400. That's not even 4K FOV or 2K. The Quest is my new HMD and what I recommend because it is so simple to use compared to the Rift or HTC Vive which requires a gaming computer with fast GPU. Being dual OLED panels it has much better color than the older Go as well as higher resolution. In order to see 4K UHD quality in 3D on an HMD the panels really need to be two at 12K. Were a long way from there yet.


Note- I understad that Best Buy's all over the country has the Oculus Quest and the Go for DEMO. Suggest you drop by and see for yourself.

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post #13 of 68 Old 05-22-2019, 04:36 PM
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Yeah, the headsets still don't allow true pixel for pixel viewing yet. And with 360 on this one you loose 3D, only 2D correct? Hoping the PS5 will have UHD VR but I may pick up the current VR for now to hold me over. I think they have around 200 games for it and I believe the VR player works with YT at least it looks that way when I'm in the menu.

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post #14 of 68 Old 05-22-2019, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Yeah, the headsets still don't allow true pixel for pixel viewing yet. And with 360 on this one you loose 3D, only 2D correct? Hoping the PS5 will have UHD VR but I may pick up the current VR for now to hold me over. I think they have around 200 games for it and I believe the VR player works with YT at least it looks that way when I'm in the menu.
NO! We do have one company now that has a custom screen in an HMD that has retina resolution of 2200 pixels per inch but has to be fed with a supercomputer using two custom GPU cards and dual HDMI cables. They expect it to hit the industrial market at $16,000. I can't recall the name of the company but they haven't gone to production. It is just a development.

The Quest not only does 3D it creates the illusion of 3D in VR360 from a 2D insta360 One X or a Vuze XR in 360 mode. I was shocked when I saw some of my 2D VR360 productions. The image is sharp too and the depth of obects in the scene varies. It's not just a push back 2D to 3D simulation. I have no idea how or why this works but it does. I tested with my true 3D VR260 Vuze+ camera and the same scene with the Insta360 One X a 2D camera and the 3D depth of objects looked the same. However, the single GoPro in the same video does not display the 3D illusion. And that is puzzling. Neither are the 360 cameras in VR180 2D mode. Only in VR360 2D will the 3D illusion show up.

On the games vs Media use of HMD, no doubt I'm into media, not games. The Quest does both without the computer tethering or sensors. Being new the game count is about 50 I heard. But it has Skybox VR for playing your videos locally either streaming over wifi or uploaded to the Quest memory. It also have You Tube VR and there is lots of VR media there.

The Oculus Go is cheaper at $199 but has lower storage and would require a game controller as the BT controller that comes with the GO doesn't work well for most games. I have one of those and plan to experiment with connecting a game controller for my grandkids to play with.

I basically know nothing about the PS HMD other than what you described. I got interested in something for being able to edit in Adobe Premiere and see the VR360 edits immediately. Before I would need to render the timeline and then load that into my iphone and play with the phone HMD which was painfully lengthy process. Now I program a transition or placement of a graphic and then put on the Oculus Rift and play the timeline, continue to adjust and play and adjust with the HMD on. The only other compatible HMD now that can do this is the HTC Vive Pro. But here's the rub- The Rift doesn't have a You Tube VR player. So there is no way to play YT content in the HMD in VR, only in flat screen mode.

I heard that Final Cut Pro does VR editing with several limitations but people I know using it are always complaining about weird problems especially in 3D VR. I don't believe FCP supports HMD either but could be wrong on that.

If anyone is interested in doing VR360 shooting & editing the gear to consider would be:

For 3D VR360, the Vuze+ limited to 4K30. $1000

For 2D VR360, the Insta360 One X 5.7K30 plus other 4K at 60 + fps

For VR180 3D and VR360 2D the Insta EVO $419

All these can be rendered to a file for upload in an iphone X or higher. Very limited editing, mostly color enhancements.

For serious editing, adobe Premiere Pro CC2019 with Oculus Rift or Rift s on a PC with strong GPU. Adobe Premiere Pro runs on a Mac but I don't know anyone doing VR with adobe, only FCP.
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post #15 of 68 Old 05-23-2019, 09:56 AM
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Hey Don, I just ordered the Vuze last night. My concern with the Evo is the audio sounded pretty bad in the demo footage I watched. How do you handle that? I may pick up an Evo as well, just to see which works out the best for me. I was thinking Vuze would be more immersive with the audio and am not thinking of walking around with it a lot. Just thinking about it though, setting the Evo on a table would be a lot more stable then Vuze, particularly with grand kids running around.

I am just interested in creating family events, to see the grand children in the future with a more realistic view. So I am not going to be big in production.

I have a lot of VR stuff. Odyssey+, 2 Rifts, Lenovo in the home all with different PCs. Also gave out 7 PCs and Rifts to the family over a year ago. Quest would have worked out better for them, they aren't very computer savvy. Definitely will be trying out Quest, though I really don't need it. I also have wireless Rift.
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post #16 of 68 Old 05-23-2019, 02:09 PM
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If sound quality is important, I use a Zoom H2N digital microphone with a dead cat in windy envioronments.

The original Vuze 8 camera VR was the worst audio I have seen since the days of the crank telephones of the turn of the century. It's really that bad but the Vuze + made a huge improvement. The Vuze XR is also very good, about equal to the Vuze+.

In the Insta360 One X the sound os not as good as the Vuze XR but better than the EVO. Note- I just got the EVO and have no field experience with it yet, only testing.



In my work the worst sound recording I do is from the tour guides. Too bad some who have a good delivery and diction I often can't hear them. Even the Zoom H2N doesn't help. Sometimes the PA system they use has near dead batteries or the audio is loaded with feedback. Pay lots of money for a tour guide and their sound is horrible.

In VR360 recording you will want to do ambisonic audio so the sound moves around in sync with the direction you are looking. The Vuze+ supports it directly and so do the insta cameras. Your editor will also need to support it. The Zoom H2n also supports 4 channel ambisonic sound. You just have to sync it up with the camera sound and I use a little hand clicker to to that during preroll.


I have some Christmas Party videos up on my channel shot with a VR360 camera. No special sound production. The last one in December was shot with the Vuze XR in 360 mode.


What is a wireless Rift? How do you have it hooked up?

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post #17 of 68 Old 05-23-2019, 02:53 PM
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I have TPCast. I hooked it up a while ago. It gives a slightly smaller FOV and I was having some other issues at the time and trying out different devices. I primarily use my two Rifts with grand kids here and there, doing Coco, etc. For demoing or their use the Wireless just added another level of complexity so I unhooked it. If I were doing a lot of action gaming I would hook it back up, or of course get a Quest.

That is what I was thinking, using another microphone adds to the complexity and cost and takes away from the simplicity of what I would likely be using it for. I ordered up the Evo today as well though and will decide.

Have you tried the Holoframe or 3DSnap to view on cell phones? I might need to get an S8 or Note8 to try one out. Though I just bought a Pixel 3a xl, yet to arrive and now realize I would need to have a Samsung or Iphone to work with these 3D cases.

Edit: also, I haven't dug into this much. But can content from these cameras be displayed on 3D devices like my UHD50 projector and have a good 3D affect? May be a way to watch family videos together.
Also, thinking of watching things together, would there be a way to watch content from these cameras together using Rifts? I know there are apps for watching movies together. Might be a way to stay in touch with family that moved away.

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post #18 of 68 Old 05-23-2019, 05:34 PM
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Ron- I have used low end HMD's and the processors were a real PIA. Not worth the trouble. The clip on foldable lenses I get free with the cameras is great for a quick view in Google cardboard mode on my iphone XsMax. But what I really wanted to get serious editing in adobe Premiere Pro is the Rift and I went to a trade show and compared the plusses and minuses of each on adobe Premiere Pro which confirmed the Oculus Rift was the way to go for my needs. I never considered games although since owning the Rift I have discovered many interesting benefits of Rift ownership that has aided my travels with Google Earth VR, and exploring the human body, etc. Participating in the forums, I get the impression that the Android OS is less capable with the software apps on these 360 cameras. My iphone as all the features advertised and never crashes. I also have a Sony ZX Premium with thr 4K LCD screen and while the screendoor effect is the best, it's features, not as good as the iphone XS max,

Dual viewing. I have not tested this but since I now own an Oculus Go and a Quest. and have two grandgids who get excited on my Rift and have been quite good as many games. I want to get them out of my edit suite, off the Rift, and in a room by themselves. The fact that these new HMD's can operate stand alone in any room or travel accomplishes that. I don't know if the Go can monitor the Quest or compete in the same game. I doubt it because the game controllers are completely incompatible. Coco is on both and I thought I will experiment with that. Also, I noticed many Free games on the Rift and the Go are expensive on the Quest, maybe because it is new. The younger one is 7 and loves painting in 3D, while the 10 yr old enjoys combat ( wants to be a Marine ) and Mine Craft and sports games. Correction- His dad told me he no longer wants to be a Marine, but wants to be a professional combat gamer developer. As a former Ranger I thnk those would best be developed by someone with real experience. But he is only 10. His youngest uncle just got out of the Marine Corps but grandpa, teaches him real combat tactics and he is fascinated how they are quite effective. Mostly when to reload and which weapon is best for the mission. Anyway, low priority for the Go to monitor the game activity on the Quest. I think there is a way to do it with mirroring and that's what I was planning to test. It works on the computer so not sure. What I have seen requires two of the same model HMD.

Watching 3D VR on a UHD flat screen. can be done with a YT VR player but you need to have a mouse or ipad for the source so you get the navigation. Then it will not be in 3D, only 2D. VR360 will look like equirectangular and VR180 will look like a circle. However, if you edit the video in POV format the software will convert it to 2D 16x9 or 9x16 format. I have a couple projects I shot with the insta360 One X and the Vuze XR and the Vuse +where I select the point of view including pans and simulated drone angles that play in my HT on the 4K screen. I haven't gotten it to work in 3D yet since the format is Side by Side it has geometry distortion of an extreme fisheye camera.

While my daughter uses text most of the time the grandkids with their new ipads call us on Facetime. I understand that is more popular with the elementary kids these days.

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post #19 of 68 Old 05-25-2019, 07:44 PM
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First, let me say, thanks for your family's service.

It must be amazing to be able to go into something like onward and train a grandchild in some of the things you have learned.

My grand kids are a bit smaller, 6, 4, and 3, so we stick to Coco and maybe a little marvel's adventures. We do watch a bit of 3D movies, but the glasses get uncomfortable for them, so we usually watch the 2D version.
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post #20 of 68 Old 05-26-2019, 10:50 AM
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We started the grandkids on 3D at age 5. I consulted with my doctor about this when I was in for my eye exam. They made some glasses that were smaller size for kids too and I picked up a pair of these. The oldest now is ready for adult size, I think.

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post #21 of 68 Old 05-28-2019, 01:49 PM
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I received the Insta360 EVO today and decided to give it a go. The camera is very simple: on, off, take pics, set mode button, take video, set lock latches to 180 or 360. Now comes the part I always dread, the cellphone SOFTWARE. I finally got it downloaded along with a firmware update for the camera. The app would not cooperate with WIFI, though, and after about 15 min. of tinkering I finally got the app activated.

NOW HERE IS THE "WATCH OUT FOR THIS!!" It will ask to confirm that it can: MAKE AND MANAGE PHONE CALLS" on your cellphone, this is an old virus trick to get a list of your contacts and to sell your phone number to telemarketers in China. I'm thinking Insta360 doesn't even know this, but it's put in there by whomever created the software. As long as you do not agree to this, you should be okay. If you have agreed to this, then uninstall the app and reinstall it and Deny it--some software animal has already got the info, probably, though.

After I finally got the thing activated, I couldn't figure out what to do to update the firmware. Don??? I took some pics and video, but had a hard time playing them back, and at one time the whole thing froze, and I had to restart the phone (I have a Samsung 8). I got so frustrated, I had to stop and put it down. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow. The files are in their special format and must be exported to your phone. So far that hasn't worked either...I give it a piece of UGH so far.

Will try to download and see what can be done to edit the files tomorrow...
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post #22 of 68 Old 05-29-2019, 02:07 PM
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"Update firmware" is in settings last item at the bottom of your app on the right.

You do not have to pair the files in the phone app. You can download the software for your PC from their web page and do it there.

I don't know about a Samsung 8, might not be powerful enough. I use an iphone XS Max and everything runs on that. There have been many reports of VR editing not working as expected with the Android OS. Ironically, Apple Macs and FCP is not always up to speed with VR as we have with adobe Premiere Pro on a powerful PC either.


I did have one bad EVO that locked up after two days of use and had to return it to Amazon. They sent me another immediately. Had it the next day. All I did was charge up the battery and then tried to turn it on and all three blue lights came on. Insta Tech support said it would have to be returned which I did.

After 7 months waiting, I finally got my underwater case for the Vuze XR but it is only for the 2D configuration. I used the Insta360 OneX for my underwater video in Bonaire, April. Currently editing it. For 2D 360 the Insta360 OneX is the best most powerful camera and has an underwater dive case.

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post #23 of 68 Old 05-30-2019, 07:49 AM
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Regarding the Insta360 EVO, I did get the firmware updated, though confusing because you have to set wifi to connect to the phone to download the firmware, then reset wifi to the camera to update it. So, when using the app on the phone with the camera, you are cutoff from any internet connections. I found using the camera with the phone a nightmare of handling both the phone and camera at the same time. Works best if camera is on a tripod, of course. Another way is to have a phone adaptor on the handle/tripod they include. To watch the video you have to watch on the phone through the app or export it to your phone or computer. On the phone, I could see that the right/left image windows were bouncing around to align the video image as if it was doing post stabilization processing. BUT, the specs say that it has "Stabilization: Built-in 6-axis gyroscopic stabilization." However, I could clearly see the software was bouncing the 3D eye windows around in the viewing software. It could be that the camera captures the floating window as it's stabilized in the camera and the viewing or exporting software realigns the video for stereo on the fly--still pretty dicey. Not sure this is any better than using the gopro 3+ and post stabilization and alignment.

As for the export of mp4 image video and stills at 180°--yikes it captures your fingers if they are slightly outward of the sides--and your feet. The image for stills is really too warped to be of any use. The video is also so warped, I had a hard time viewing it. I loaded it in Edius and right clicked it, selected it as stereo sbs and that worked, but you get image stretch that has to be corrected using an aspect ratio effect. After all that, I will definitely stick to my Gopro 3+ for stereo shots and video since the FOV is very manageable, and the images look more realistic.

As for 360° video, I haven't tried it yet as I was hoping that 3D 180° would be useful. More to come...
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post #24 of 68 Old 05-30-2019, 10:42 AM
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Regarding the Insta360 EVO, I did get the firmware updated, though confusing because you have to set wifi to connect to the phone to download the firmware, then reset wifi to the camera to update it.
That may be a limitation of your Android phone. With the iphone when I connect wifi to the camera the phone automatically switches to LTE, so the download can take place and the update automatically. If your phone can't use wifi locally and connect to the internet at the same time you may experience other problems with the phone app as well.

Shooting with a phone monitor. Yes, I use a spring loaded phone grabber to frame critical shot angles, rarely. Most of the time I use these VR cameras the way they were primarily designed, as an action camera. Point in the general direction and then crop and reframe in post.

It always helps to hold a camera steady while shooting even with the best stabilizer like Flow State in the Insta cameras. I still get a bit of rhythm bounce when holding the camera at the end of a 4 ft selfie stick while walking. But the stability is definitely far better than any GoPro video.

Edius does not do VR360 nor VR180, so you are using the wrong tool for the job. The best tool for 3D VR is adobe Premiere Pro. I have none of the problems you are experiencing. There are some other VR editing systems but they do 2D and do not work in 3D. With the right tools you should be able to get perfect geometry in 3D, crop out a finger that breaches the edge of your frame and blow up to fill the screen. There is plenty of headroom since your best monitor is 4K and you are shooting 5.7K.

In adobe Premiere Pro the file is automatically corrected for proper geometry and you can add conventional video like the GoPro 3D in a window and add the correction "Plane to Sphere" effect ti adjust the geometry to make the two match. The GoPro shooting in 1080P will be a small window when sitting in a 5.7K frame. I have examples on my website now that has GoPro Hero6 shooting 4K that does a pretty good job filling the angle of view because I blew it up to fill the screen and 4K up to 5.7K is not so soft. In the future, I plan to use the Hero 7 as it has better image stabilization than the 6. Although I was using the Gimbal with the 6 in my latest projects so it isn't too bad.

Most of my projects have been VR360 both 2D and 3D. I really haven't done any serious VR180 3D yet except for one experiment with my grandkids at the Apple store. Mistake I made there is I shot it too close. The 4-10 ft away shots looked fine. That was shot with the Vuze XR in VR180 3D mode.

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post #25 of 68 Old 05-30-2019, 02:57 PM
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Thanks, Don! I will take a look at Adobe Premiere and yes my Android phone appears to be the problem...ugh. It's always something...
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post #26 of 68 Old 05-30-2019, 05:56 PM
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Power Director can handle 180 and 2D 360. But if there are dual files you'd have to combine them first in Edius or VP then bring into PD for 180 3D.

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post #27 of 68 Old 05-30-2019, 10:40 PM
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Wrong Tom. It's easy to just download the free insta360 studio PC software to do the combine of the twin insv files to an MP4 VR file. Insta360 also has a MAC version. Edius or VP will not work with these files.


If you like to shoot in RAW or flat Log files, they have a LUT to download as well.

https://www.insta360.com/download/insta360-evo

This software will also install the adobe plugin


The same is true for the Vuze XR. It also has it's own software.



Re adobe Premiere Pro- Important to understand that while adobe PP looks similar to Edius, the work flow is different. I suggest taking a few days and go through the training videos. Start fresh with an open mind and don't try to learn it by thinking in Edius or any other editing software. Soon you will learn how to custom configure the GUI that works most efficiently for your hardware. I even had to modify the editing layout when I added the Oculus Rift as a 3rd monitor. aPP is the most widely supported video editing on the market because so many 3rd party plugins can add features. Many come with the package, but for some things you may wish to pay for a plugin, Font, special effect, transition, grapyhic, music clip, etc. beginning in mid 2018 adobe bought out the VR plugins from Mettle which used to be required to do VR in aPP or After Effects. Now those are built into aPP called immersive effect and Immersive transitions. adobe has a gazillion of addons in their library you can download and auto install too, but most, nearly all have a one time cost.

Most people are not into editing and don't do stories. They can use a screw driver and hammer to hang a picture on the wall but they don't build a house. They shoot and upload what they shot to social media. aPP is a waste of time and money for them. People I know who do this are having the most success just using their iphone X or XS with the free insta360 app on the phone. Their only complaint is these apps can create all sorts of effects but they don't join two clips with transition. You can only trim the heads and tails with the phone app. So they shoot a single clip trim it and modify the color or framing and then upload to a direct link to facebook, instagram, or YT as well as store on the iphone.

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post #28 of 68 Old 05-31-2019, 08:00 AM
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Yeah, I forgot VP 13 only handles up to 4096x4096 so it wouldn't handle all of the resolution to begin with, not sure on Edius. But if the free software works then use that to create the single mp4 and bring it into PD.

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post #29 of 68 Old 05-31-2019, 02:41 PM
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tom it's more than just resolution. It's a number of requirements to edit VR. The main one is being able to map circular and equirectangular geometry to a spherical surface projection. Power Director can do it but only VR360 2D last I looked. tom, I've been hearing good things about FCP latest version for VR but I don't have it so I defer to those using it for VR now. The main problem with the Mac for VR editing is hardware. It has speed limitations. No way to custom build a Mac for VR like we can do with a PC.

Bob, as a reminder, you will still need Edius or Vegas Pro to do your traditional 3D pairing and editing. Believe it or not, adobe Premiere Pro does not edit traditional 3D, only VR in 3D. As I have said there is no one tool that does everything.

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post #30 of 68 Old 06-01-2019, 08:13 AM
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They added the Dashwood 3D plugin for free awhile back for FCP, but in order to handle the output formats you still need the PC edit NLE's which are better equipped for output. FCP would handle you're basic editing, that's about it. As for VR, I don't know, haven't read anything about it recently. For Mac Pro, basically they have the old 2013 release or the iMac Pro, that's it supposed to release a new Mac Pro maybe this year, probably not. I haven't upgraded yet, still using a 2009 Mac Pro that I upgraded to 12 core. It might be possible to run OS X on a PC non Mac hardware, but getting it installed can be tricky.

Yes, PD, only 2D 360 not 3D the Insta is only 2D 360. I'm not sure on 180 support, it lists 360 support in specs but not 180, also not sure on resolution support for 5.7K, might not support that much resolution in PD.

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