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post #1 of 15 Old 07-28-2018, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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My new experimental cameras

So I am at the production stage of a many year project that I expect to be a lifelong extension of my medical practice. About a month from finishing a 5 minutes stereo demo that I’ll share with you guys.

I spent a few years building an extremely detailed and complicated model of head and neck anatomy in Z brush and 3-D studio Max/Vray. Over the years I’ve been documenting cadaver dissections and surgical procedures using various stereoscopic cameras and recently I’ve acquired some new display equipment including a few LG TVs and I’m about to try out the ultra D monitor and I have a duel projector Omega / Geobox based system I’ve been playing with.
Anyway, I’m going to create a bunch of pre-rendered stereoscopic short videos on multiple topics centered around Ear Nose and Throat medicine especially sinus and nasal surgery, but other common topics too. Audience will be other surgeons, medical students, primary care doctors, and patients - depending on the topic. I’ll figure out as many ways to get it seen in Stereo as I can but also include just 2D videos.

So in that effort I’ve recently been working on a few camera systems, I just bought a Sony 10 and a Sony30 3D handy cam and Cyclopia mods for both to do macros. I found a stereoscopic endoscope on eBay that goes to an obsolete surgical robot but it has excellent optics and the fact that it’s obsolete is because it’s so big compared to the modern ones but that’s perfect for attaching cameras and it does really nice close-up macros in nooks and crannies. I’ve fitted two YI 4K+ cmount modified action cams to it. Works great. Having a little more trouble with a rig using 12 mm c mount lenses to do closeups from a distance ie over the shoulder of a surgeon. The lenses are manual focus and with the small sensor size even with bright light and a small aperture there is a narrow depth of field. To help I mounted 2 laser gun sights on the cameras, calibrated them to shine parallel to the axis and can more easily set toe in and keep the rig at the correct focal distance during shooting.
I’ll post up some pics.
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-28-2018, 07:42 PM
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Nice setup! Good to see you got that 3D endoscope going. What macro lenses are you using? Might be too far from working distance on them, the 4th pic. I take it the lasers are for lining up your convergence when you toe-in? Have to be careful how much toe-in is applied. I've done some really close toe-in with side by side cameras and keystoning can get real bad. How far apart do you have the lenses? Center to center measurement.

The Ultra D monitor I think would be a good way to go for showing 3D, looking forward to hearing your results on it, might be a lot to haul around with a 65" model. They'll probably release smaller screens too at some point.

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post #3 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 12:51 AM
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Anyway, I’m going to create a bunch of pre-rendered stereoscopic short videos on multiple topics centered around Ear Nose and Throat medicine especially sinus and nasal surgery, but other common topics too. Audience will be other surgeons, medical students, primary care doctors, and patients - depending on the topic. I’ll figure out as many ways to get it seen in Stereo as I can but also include just 2D videos.
I'm finding more use for high resolution 3D display using HMD goggles, so you should try them to see if they might suit your needs. If your video is not 360VR then you will get the full HMD panel resolution. Current low cost HMD panels in the goggles are now 2560 pixels screen width. Some are split for 3D and some are 2560 per eye. I have one HMD that is 1920 per eye and it looks as good as an HDTV in 3D.


Nice construction! What Gimbal did you use? I have several here, depending on which camera I want to use. The new 2018 Feiyutech models are really good.

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post #4 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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The gimbal is the mid level Zhiyun. The macro lenses have been apparently tested out by the guy at Cyclopital, Im still waiting on that mod to come it, but it is a 3D printed filter holder and a set of Vivitar Macro lenses. He has a chart that shows the ranges for the different lenses as it allows convergence and focus closer than the native setup. http://www.cyclopital3d.com/Sony-HDR...P-ADAPTER.html

Have you used the Oculus Go much yet? Except that I'm busy buying too much other stuff, I plan on getting a few of these.

As far as the toe in issue... Im still experimentin but for the surgical shots, there is no background to foul up things, the closest object and farthest object in the field are just a few centimeters different. I have this cool plugin for Adobe After Effects from Vision III http://www.inv3.com/quicks3D that makes tweeking keystoning and most other possible adjustments pretty easy, as I learn to use it. I start out filming a couple of grid patterns first at the same distance and then use that to adjust in software.

Introcular distance, Ive played with a few and for that sort of 3 foot distance, over the shoulder, I think about 50 mm is about right.. but Im still playing with it. And the lasers are helpful to align these small cameras, I have set screws on the base of one that lets me do fine adjustments.

As far as lugging those monitors around... well I also am in pursuit of more LG65s or curses there are 2 77inch models out there right now but in the 10k pricerange... but I am designing a hard case with wheels for them that also lifts up and is a self contained eye level stand... sort of like roadie gear for a band covered in carpet and metal corners and with rubber machine mounts holding the TV in place to reduce vibration.
They are going to be one of my main display options as I can leave them at med schools in the department conference rooms and the students can come by at their leisure and watch presentations without me having to show it with my projectors all the time.

My Demo reel is critical so I want it to be very good as I'm hoping to pick up a corporate sponsor or work on a University position at LSU or Tulane where I can get grant money to hire some people to help with the animation and production. As with most projects, the first runs aren't always the best as I'm learning the tools, right now struggling to get better with Premier Pro and After effects and develop a workflow.
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 08:51 AM
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Have you used the Oculus Go much yet?
No, I first bought a Sony Xperia Premium smart phone that has a native 4K screen so 4K 360VR is 1920 pixels per eye for 3D. This is used with a HMD that just holds a smart phone, larger size. Later I shopped around and decided to get an active HMD with navigation controls but at the time nothing was higher than 2560 panels so I didn't want to spend too much. I tried Original Occulus Rift and HTC Vive and the Samsung at a trade show and believe for image quality, my Sony system beats them all and my active HMD is just as good as the big names out there. This is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I had a sale price of $150 so not so bad. The downside is they are not standard so they have to be used stand alone while the Occulus and HTC are adobe compatible. Just that I don't need that right now. I'm really holding out for compatible HMD with adobe that uses much higher resolution panels. For 360VR that is the most important weakness right now because of the way 360VR is created.

I use Adobe Premiere Pro for editing 360VR 3D but it doesn't support basic 3D pairing for flat screen. So for editing basic 3D I have Edius, Vegas Pro v13, and Power Director v16. I guess you have to do your pairing of your 3D in After Effects. Due to subscription cost, After effects is not in my budget as I have other software that does the job just fine.

I tried Occulus Rift with Adobe Premiere Pro at NAB in April and I can tell you it is really awkward and difficult to edit that way. The hand controllers don't make it any easier. Maybe if I could use a glove with finger sensors it would have been more intuitive.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 08:53 AM
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Morgus1, I'm assuming you are simply shooting twin video with the YI cameras (by pressing the recording buttons at the same time) and then aligning the frames in post processing. I have those same cameras and have found the frame alignment to be spot on when done right and would like to know your experience using those cameras. Pretty impressive stuff and your Avatar scares the hell of me... .
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a clap board to help sync... and recording in 60 fps, but nothing I record is moving fast at all, so I can sync to half a frame as I end up rendering it out in 30 fps ... And with my plugin I can edit in premier and after effects and get realtime output on my LG TV for some of it, then I have to copy the settings and change the output to 3840x1080 for one of my final outpust and I havent found a way to set the aspect ratio with the plugin, so it doesnt give me realtime stereo while editing with final Full SBS... but by then I have done everthing except for timing and fades and such and don't really need to see it in stereo. I have my geobox set up right there but havent put it to work with the editing software


And Morgus is a New Orleans Icon... google it. Growing up in the 60s here, and way before that too, Morgus was a mad scientist who would come on Saturday morning with a kids show with his spooky chemistry dungeon and Munsters like scenes, before that a radio show, and he would host Elvira like movies ....
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-29-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Morgus1 View Post
As far as lugging those monitors around... well I also am in pursuit of more LG65s or curses there are 2 77inch models out there right now but in the 10k pricerange... but I am designing a hard case with wheels for them that also lifts up and is a self contained eye level stand... sort of like roadie gear for a band covered in carpet and metal corners and with rubber machine mounts holding the TV in place to reduce vibration.
They are going to be one of my main display options as I can leave them at med schools in the department conference rooms and the students can come by at their leisure and watch presentations without me having to show it with my projectors all the time.
If you're referring to the OLED models, as you probably know those screens are very fragile. They're basically just 2 pieces of 1/8" glass glued together. There's also the higher cost and potential burn in issues on those, being left on static images for long periods, something that might be out of your control if you left them alone. For setup and demoing, I'd probably go with lower cost LCD's if you could find them. They still look pretty good and would be stronger, less expensive. Save the OLED models for your own personal use but that's just my opinion. I have my 65" E6 up on the wall and I hope to never have to move it again.

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post #9 of 15 Old 09-18-2018, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So I've been super busy with this and other aspects of my project. Since this is a thread on my experimental cameras, I'm almost finished tuning up a helmet head mounted/ optical periscope - cyclopital macro adapter - sony td30v that is giving super surgeon view macros of the operative field, The optical grade mirrors allow the camera to view from almost eyeball perspective, surgeon peeks just below the mirror. I still have 2 LED super bright mini flashlights to attach.
I now have 2 65g6p and 2 77g6p in road cases I built. The wheels change out for an adjustable stand to set the height once it is at the venue. I had planned to use various dual projector systems, and still plan on it, but they are proving to be such a pain in the ass as Ill be in various different venues of different sizes... and in some cases Ill leave a set in a classroom for the med students to watch over time and one of these TVs with a DVD player will not require any technical expertise to show...here is a picture of one of the 77s and one of the 65s.

a few screen shots from my intro video

https://www.instagram.com/petercasano/
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-19-2018, 07:09 AM
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@Morgus1 - My hat off to you for using 3D for the good of mankind. Most of us think of it as used for entertainment or marketing, but this is revolutionary. And where did you get this technical knack for experimentation?
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post #11 of 15 Old 09-19-2018, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Bob.... I do hope to help people understand this topic that has been my life's work, but also hope to reap some benefits. If nothing else it will be marketing for my practice. There are a few big medical companies that I hope to make proposals to and see if they will partner with me so I can hire a team to expand and speed this type of educational production.

I started with this in the 90's with much simpler 3D models and still stereoscopic photography of cadaver dissections and pathology.. My "Nose Cards" project/ marketing really started my practice off and helped me specialize in sinus problems. It was a deck of stereocopic cards and a viewer that I published and distributed as widely as I could to patients and family doctors and such. I still have thousands of decks in the attic. And as far as experimentation... well I dunno, mostly necessity as if you want something you often have to make it yourself.
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post #12 of 15 Old 10-12-2018, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Z10000

Turns out the screws that hold the mini hood on perfectly fit (I put makeshift spacers) an 86 adapter ring for filters or closeup lenses.
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-13-2018, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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and I had been fooling around trying to DIY a stereoscopic adapter for the operating microscopes that I have available, but I wasn't getting that great of a result... So I just got the correct stuff.. These super dandy things allow me to put 4k cmount cameras on each eye of a beam splitter and critically they allow me to match up the x-y of each and the focus so that very little tweeking is needed in post. I'm getting amazing shots with this contraption.
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-13-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Morgus1 View Post
Z10000

Turns out the screws that hold the mini hood on perfectly fit (I put makeshift spacers) an 86 adapter ring for filters or closeup lenses.
I modded mine awhile back (post 684), I was pretty sure 95mm was needed, do you catch any of the filter in wide with 86mm?

I made a beamsplitter awhile back for my AX100's but haven't gotten back to it for more testing, too many other projects. Last thing I did was paint it. Nice setup for your Zeiss 3D scope. I saw this one (http://www.truetex.com/zeiss_slit_lamp2.jpg) using the same instrument, what kind of magnification does that scope have? Pretty cool, keep the 3D projects coming!
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-13-2018, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool experiment...

Yes the 86 mm clips the side but only a small amount of zoom avoids that.
I didn’t know vivitar made a 95 I see them on eBay now. 👍🏻

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