I'm not sure if this forum is the best fit, but there is a absolute lack of online information about this subject.

I'm intrigued about the possibilities offered by 180 3d VR. Preserving special events, happenings, heck even loved ones, and pets! Unfortunatley I seem to be rather alone in this excitement as there is apparently little interest? This forum seems to have the most related knowledge.

The camera

I'm just a hobbyist, but would like something better than the current crop of VR "point and shoot" choices. Reports indicate they all suffer from poor video quality and resolution. I'm therefore researching a DIY camera rig, but again very little information, and discussion exists on this subject. I'd like something that cam be synced at the very least, and with genlock if affordable. I'm having a hard time finding these specs for the cameras I've investigated.

I know a popular choice is the GOPro hero 3? with the genlock kit, but they are now obsolete, and were rather low rez? is that correct?

Then there is newer GoPro camera with the aftermarket Genlock attachable backs? Any comment on these?

My first choice for a camera would be the Zcam E1 cameras. These appear to be a step above the Go pros, and are heavily discounted. However, there is no information about their :sync" abilities, and no aftermarket gen lock options? http://www.z-cam.com/e1/

There is lots of info here. See the 4K 3D Twin Rig and 3D specialized software and gadgets threads for starters. You'll find a lot of discussion about 3D cameras and technology in these threads. The Augmented Reality thread tends to slant more toward the head-mounted display type of VR/3D tech.

Wmacky- The problem with present day VR is that the goggles all are limited to 4K screens maximum. That may sound great but the way VR is projected is by taking ultra high resolution images from surround cameras that forces the normal 4K image to be zoomed to a 360 degree spherical screen so you can look all around and up and down. What that is done the image stretch causes the resolution to suffer to that of a 480 x 480 pixel view. To achive the high resolution we are used to would require the cameras to shoot at 32K and the display to have 16,000 pixels. The camera can be achieved by using multiple 4K cameras but the goggles haven't been invented yet.

I enjoy the present state of the art with the Vuze360 3D camera that shoots with 8 cameras in a compact rugged package. Vuze is coming out with a Vuze XR that will shoot 360VR in 2D and 3D 180 at 5.7K resolution.

I am not familiar with a new GoPro that offers a sync back for genlock. I have the Hero 6 and it has no multiport on the back. I have the GoPro 3 Black with twin housing and sync connections for 3D. I'd like to know more about any new GoPro with the quality of the Hero6 and has genlock for 3D.

Thanks for the responses. Yes, it is a unfortunate situation with current VR headset resolution. The good news is I have a Pimax VR headset coming that utilizes "upscaled" 4k per eye screens. That's as good as it currently gets and will have to do for now. What I need it a rig that can provide that 4K per side image.

Is nobody here familiar with a Zcam E1?? ( I read a couple comments about them being used for VR, but no other info such as how they are used?) I'm doing this in somewhat of a rush as those cams are discontinued and stock will be gone any day now. However, due to sync requirements, it appears that the Gopro may be the only option, even though the E1 appears to be a nicer cam.

About Gen lock with the newer Gopros. I didn't mean to mislead. The solution I refer to is from a 3rd party seen here https://www.timecodesystems.com/syncbac-pro/

Thanks for the link. I was not aware of this but not surprised someone came out with a true sync accessory for the GoPro.

Couple comments-
A 3D camera system would require one for each camera Price- 2 x $269 $538
A second GoPro Hero 6 Price $400
Total $938 for me to have this in my Kit because I already have one Hero6.

The setup will lose the on screen display because the system covers over the Hero6 screen
The system Operates as a Master / Slave format using free running Time code.
It does not support 50 or 60fps, only 30 and 24

Other than that it looks like a nice solution for setting up a Time code full synced GoPro Hero 6 for 3D and 4K.

If the sync blocks were $70 each I would consider it but at that price, I will stock to the Vuze XR for a 3D high resolution system that can also shoot VR180 in 2D.

I agree that it's expensive, especially since I have No GoPro at all. That would bring me up to $1400.


Perhaps I should start with a Lenovo, or Lucid 180VR Point and shoot. But, again those horrible reviews! The Vuze won't work as I really want 180 in 3D


I could cut cost and go Hero 4. I've seen some for $250. and then there is this ebay source for the genlock ( But how did he get these??????) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Timecode-Sy...item2cd98a11c0

You are not looking at the Vuze XR. That is a VR180 in 3D It is 360 in 2D.

The Vuze I have shoots 360VR in 3D but the files from 8 cameras can be stitched for either 2D or 3D in 360 or any width less than that in their software.

The advantage of the XR is higher resolution and a simpler camera than the 8 cam Vuze.

I might add that the "VR" in the name denotes that the file structure is equirectangular format so it will not display full screen 16x9. It is best viewed with goggles HMD. However it can be displayed in You Tube and Facebook(2D) with window panning view. If you were looking for a conventional 3D camera that shoots 3D the Vuze is not for you.

The only way I have ever produced 180° in 3D is with my NEX 5n camera using the panorama 3D mode but this is only for Still shots. I have a number of these in my Bryce Canyon Documentary on YouTube. At best I have done about a 100° angle in 3D video with special fisheye adapters on a wide angle lens.

Probably this person or a team of "I've got an idea" guys bought them for some video experiment. After they did their thing they decided, it wasn't what they expected and are selling them. Happens a lot these days.

I don't think so Bob. The seller is claiming "New" and to sell used item claiming new is fraud. Most likely it is just an entrepreneur internet retailer who bought wholesale and is selling at a small profit. It was only a Hero 4 version being offered. I gave my 3 Hero 4 's to my grandkids and son-in-law.

So, it looks like 2 hero 4's and 2 discounted genlocks could be had for less than $800.

Would that be a reasonable 180 rig for the money?

Would that be a reasonable 180 rig for the money?


Again, the GoPro system does not do VR equirectangular video output. It does conventional 3D. The wide angle is more like 90 degrees, not 180. With 3rd party adapters you may get 130 degrees but the image will be extremely curved. I've never used those 3rd party adapters on mt GoPro Hero4's so that is my guess.

You might just as well get a Hero3Black pair and a GoPro 3D housing for less money. Someone posted a link to the GoPro 3D kit here recently.

Otherwise the Vuze XR is your best bet for VR180 in 3D. Waiting for that to be released said for 4th quarter.


You do understand the difference between conventional 3D and VR 3D don't you? Your original post said you were interested in VR and VR just can't be done with two GoPro's.

Here is a minimal GoPro system for VR:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...QAvD_BwE&smp=y

I would be wary!

Until it is proven otherwise I would assume that this not a true genlock arrangement. The timing accuracy may be sufficient to facilitate post-production editing (e.g. cutting between different camera angles of a scene) to the nearest frame.

This device probably doesn't have accurate control over the cameras down to a few milliseconds, the level of accuracy that would be required for proper 3D sync (when shooting a non-static scene).

Here is what they say about Genlock for GoPro 4:

Can you genlock the GoPros?
The SyncBac PRO is a timecode solution for GoPro HERO4 which embeds the timecode as metadata into the mp4 file. Unfortunately, we are not able to offer genlock/sensor sync as Hero4s do not have the architecture to support external genlock in.


So basically, you are correct, this only matches the timecode between master and slaves but does not sync the timing oscillators in the camera. The use of a sound pulse from a clicker is a low tech way to match up the frames. But the sync back device allows you to just line up the clips using the time code. The frames could still be as much as a half frame out of sync even though the time code is a match.

I also discovered that the current firmware does not control the Hero cameras but may with a future firmware update.

There's a product called Syncbac Pro and I got all excited when I saw it but it's just a timecode system which isn't sync. The only one that was true genlock sync was a third party called mewpro but it's a software/hardware hack, that one was just for Hero 4 I believe.

Yup, Don, I have two YI 4K cameras and can use them like gopros. Even have a LCD display. I push both buttons and then clap. The high point of the clap is captured on both and I use that for alignment. Actually ends up pretty close. I did the same with my Nabis back in the day and did a whole twenty minutes of 3D filming on my jet ski. I was able to align it to the point that no one every questioned it. This is old desert, but still relevant I think. Heck you can still find these cameras for less than $50 a piece now and they are 1080p. Here was my setup. As we found out, the horizon wing flap on the wide angle was the hardest to eliminate. Keeping the horizon in the middle of the image is the best bet, otherwise you get up-down warp (wing flap) as the wide angle lens bounces up and down--something else to think about as you have mentioned previously.

Forgive me if this seems trite, but I think it demonstrates what even a 4K setup could/would do. You can test out all your thoughts for cheap before you invest a lot of money. Note my setup below. It was a simple aluminum frame with a typical stereo camera slider bar attached and the two cameras (water worthy-those are floater stuck to the back) attached side by side. On the first video you can see me clap for sync. Later in the video I used the kill-switch cord dangling from my left wrist as a sync. I would do this realigning the two videos every so many frames when I saw it wavering out of sync while editing the video. The second has more 3D push forward. Note the horizon warp. This is what you will get with a wide angle. These cameras were 175°.

These are youtube SBS videos flagged as 3D and will show up as anaglyph on your PC browser. If you can stream them on a projector, they will show up regular 3D. With anaglyph you can see the sync variations easily. Reason I'm showing these videos is that they demonstrate that using simple handclaps can be used for sync. If you have a long video, best to stop it every couple of minutes and start it again with a new hand clap to get the best sync for a long video. Or have something dangle close up like my wrist cord. Or use a hand clicker to create a noise jump. Oh yeah, there is a white balance difference between the two cameras as well. Another thing to think about. If these don't play for some reason, you'll have to go to youtube directly.

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Interesting info! So 2 cams, and a clicker could get me started? Looks like the timecode units are out, so that saves a few hundred.


About equirectangular projection. - I'm not sure how nessassary this is for 180 VR? I do know that standard GoPros have been used for this content.



About those Fish eyed lenses - If electronic sync is out and clickers are in, I would probably just go for the Z-cam E1 afterall I wonder if there are any reasonably priced MFT mount lens that would get me close to 180? There is the expensive I-zuger Fish eye but it's $500 per lens!!

I say try it and see what you end up with and show us the results. We'll be glad to tell you how great it is.... As for square-image VR, remember that it was designed early on to fit on a cellphone as two SBS square images in 3D that could be seen using a Google Cardboard contraption. That was replaced by Head-Mounted displays that use cellphones and now some have built-in displays. Along with that, companies like Oculus Rift came up with their own VR head mounted solution. And that sparked a VR revolution for 360° VR, both 2D and 3D. It's a field that is still trying to find itself (mostly for gaming these days) and has been pushed back a bit by the movement by TV manufacturers away from 3D and discouraging movie companies to make 3D movies. If you use two 16:9 cameras to create two SBS images for cellphone VR, then you will be losing out on the extra pixels of the cellphone. The two SBS images can be made into a 3D movie, however for showing on a PC, 3D TV and projector, which is what I do. The two SBS images are not related, however. The cellphone version is SBS not compressed (think of it as two 8:8 slightly spherical images side by side), and the TV version is SBS compressed to fit into one 16:9 frame and decompressed into two 16:9 frames for 3D, which I'm sure you are aware of. I'm probably oversimplifying...

One more thought about clickers. We all have discovered that you will be about 1/4 to 1/2 frame off with the best of frame alignment since you can't predict that both cameras will start on the same frame vs. midframe of the other camera. A 1/2 frame usually doesn't make a difference unless someone is waving a hand or walking. Then you can sometimes see a slight sync issue. It's always give and take. If you really want the best genlocked image, then the gopro 3+ system is still the way to go.

Thanks again everyone. This has been the best resource so far on a subject matter that has the most lacking internet resources I have every seen. I hope to learn more from you guys


I have decided on a system!



The vuse XR looks promising when it's released, and I bet there will be other "all in one options" soon to come, But I have decided to try something right now.


The key was Tomtastics post above about the Mew pro genlock for the hero 4. I had found it previously but lost the link and couldn't remember the name.


Anyway I have decided on 2 Hero 4 cams and the Mewpro Genlock. This looks to be the only current option in that price range for quality genlocked 4K 3D. Anybody else want to grab one, and we can figure it out together! It's going to have a big learning curve!


I actually even found a youtube video with a example

That's where I gave up on the mewpro, I know someone who could probably figure it out but I'm turning my attention to the next Sid 4K 3D release or possibly one or two others. The mewpro system I found a couple vids on YT where I first saw it and apparently it does work but it's some work getting set up if you know how to do all that.

Bob- yes I still have my old Nabi system. I only did one video project with it at Disney's underwater park in the Bahamas. Castaway Key. I believe you had convinced me to build this setup. Then I decided to move into the GoPro 3 system with the dual U/W sync. I will continue to use that as the images are really good, especially using Barry's setup with the 2.7K 30 fps. And, underwater the wide fisheye distortion is eliminated by the water /air refraction. I also use the system with my own gimbal frame for non underwater.

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Yes just viewing in anaglyph without glasses on makes it easy to spot timing discrepancies.

The missync in the second video is relatively mild. You can be lucky sometimes with unsynchronised cameras!

There is a lot of info in the Gopro 3+ system forum threads that should help. Here is my rig that I took to Africa in 2016. It's a 3D printed frame that can be flipped to widen the eye separation if you are willing to adapt/widen the sync cord, which is easy to do.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/192-3...l#post54796893

Here is my simple rig for the two YI 4K cameras and a stereo slide bar from Amazon. A relatively cheap solution to get going. These cameras use the same sensor as the gopros and you get 1080p stabilization as well, not 4K stabilization and it's also only 30p but the 4K is good. They also have an LCD back.

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Yesterday, I received my new Vuze XR camera. While 360 VR 2D is nothing new to me, I have been struggling to learn the ins and outs of VR 180 3D. The camera is fine and can produce very high quality 3D with really nice image detail. But the 3D can only be viewed on You Tube with Google Cardboard app.

The editing systems I am used to are well developed for 360 VR and Premiere Pro for 360 3D, but these do not work well in VR180 3D. But I have discovered some work arounds to create content in 180 VR 3D.

First of all, I learned that 180VR 3D does not play with anaglyph on You Tube. To get it to work right out of Premiere requires some manipulation of the SBS aspect ratio and then when done editing you render and that will not work in You Tube. So Google has a fix that you process your video for 180VR 3D Left/Right meta data. It's pretty fast process and doesn't affect the video quality. It just instructs YT how to process the file you upload so it plays in Google Cardboard format.

While my older Vuze 360 3D never looked like 4K the new XR does, but I had to use my Sony Xperia screen in an HMD to see that fine detail. On YT desktop computer flat screenwhat you see when you play the file is basic distorted 2D 180.

The one downside I found to the Vuze XR is it has no image stabilization active right now. Just Horizon stabilization. But the camera is small enough to fit on my Gimbal and that gets me a stable image. Supposedly, they are still working on the stabilization and I've been told it will come out soon in a firmware update. Also the Underwater housing for the XR is not out yet, to be shipped after the first of the year. There will be two housings, one for 360 2D to be released first and later one for the 3D 180.

Maybe I'm not understanding Don, but can you separate the left eye from the right eye into two different files? If so, you could bring them into your editing program separately and sync them up as a 3D file, then create an SBS 3D file for your projector or youtube. Of course, you would end up with a very wide angle image, but it might be a way to handle it. You could possibly mask the image into a 16:9 view and move the layouter mask back and forth to create a panning view. The watcher would not have any control over this, but it might be a way to use the camera as a regular 3D camera.

That's what I had thought too for awhile.

I believe all these cameras record into a single side by side video file. In this case the overall file is 5.7K resolution but it's greater than 200 deg. FOV. So you couldn't just do one overall 16:9 crop because you would end up with image in between that would need to be removed along with the sides. And I'm not sure how you would crop just an equal center portion of each image at least in VP, I've never done that before for 3D, but let's just say there's a way, that would divide up the 2 views equally but that also lowers your overall resolution and it's still fish eye even in that cropped center image. These are really meant for goggles with the square image format. It would be interesting to see the results. I suspect you would have too much distance between the two views once you had them cropped, but just a guess. The fish eye lens could correct that but given the distance of the stereo base, it may be too far apart.

I had the Lucid - junk. Quality was horrible. Avoid it.

Currently using Insta360 pro which just released an update to their stitching software that allows you to shoot 180 degree in two modes, but the camera continues to record 360 degree, but you can output 180 at 4kx4k per eye. Then, use their Crystalview software to watch the output at the 4kx4k. You can also output with optical flow 60fps instead fo 30fps.

Don, but can you separate the left eye from the right eye into two different files? use ffmpeg

ffmpeg -i HET_0001.MP4 -c copy -map 0:v:0 HET_0001_0.MP4
is the first track
0:v:1 for the second track.

Note- I do not use this but others still editing the hard way claim this is how they access the muxed images in a VR file.


The newest adobe Premiere Pro just released a few days ago, now bug free, can recognize h264 up to 8K and also recognizes SBS VR180 files. The first release of APP was buggy in that it required access to the GPU that was not supported by Nvidia drivers. But they quickly fixed that and after I updated my driver for the GTX 180 Ti GPU everything works and I can even play my timeline in full 5.7K resolution with multiple effects applied. The new cc2019 Adobe Premiere Pro has a huge number of additions that make it an even better deal at $20 a month. One new feature I am fascinated with is the ability to draw a rough mask on an object in a frame of video and select it's color then change it. Now the change will follow that object anywhere in the clip.

The Vuze XR will soon get a firmware upgrade that will add slomo timelapse and 60fps 5.7K, so I've been told.