3D stereoscopic camera in 2018 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 64 Old 03-19-2019, 09:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1087 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post
I’d have to dig some up - but no the magnification doesn’t get in the way as I used it generally wide open. However, even a video (casual) i shot at the Miramar Air Show with it, zoomed all the way in the 3D was still damn good, 10x better than the TD series which, the more you zoom, the flatter the image. I also did not use digital zoom.

But it wasn’t just the 3D with the wider distance between the lenses, but the quality of the CMOS chip and the processing the camera was doing. The quality looked like my 1” sensor cameras. The image, 3D or 2D (whether converted or shot that way) was damn good. Selling off my 3D cameras was hard, but letting that one go, I still have regrets.

And if you want to make it more interesting, I also was using a Sony HMZ-TW3 3D headset with it to frame shots, etc. a bit cumbersome, but easier to see if I’m getting all the parallax, etc. the built in screens on the TD cameras I found ineffective, especially outdoors.
Interesting, it would have been great for the Africa trip I did in 2016. I have a lot of gopro 3D of it, but without a zoom (though I can do some zoom in editing), it loses the effect of seeing the animals up close. I see now, they are hard to find. A couple showed up on Amazon for over $6k, yikes.
3DBob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 64 Old 03-19-2019, 10:32 AM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Interesting, it would have been great for the Africa trip I did in 2016. I have a lot of gopro 3D of it, but without a zoom (though I can do some zoom in editing), it loses the effect of seeing the animals up close. I see now, they are hard to find. A couple showed up on Amazon for over $6k, yikes.
I snapped the DEV-50 up back in 2016 - got a killer price ($1500) on a new one. I ended up selling it for $2k, and yes, used ones on eBay go for high numbers. If you keep your eye on Yahoo Auctions (Japan) they show up (along with the DEV-30 which wasn't sold in the U.S.) for less money. And, unlike the consumer camcorders bought from overseas, you can change the menu language and system (NTSC/PAL) from the menu.

I'm keeping my eye open, I may jump back into 3D recording and pick up a DEV-30 and a TD-10.
Jet-X is offline  
post #33 of 64 Old 04-10-2019, 09:47 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Well, lucky me I snapped up a DEV-50 this weekend at a killer price.

Also found a review of the base version (DEV-30, same as 50 sans digital zoom, GPS and rubber eye cups)

https://sites.google.com/site/sonydev30minireview/
Jet-X is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 64 Old 04-12-2019, 03:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1087 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post
Well, lucky me I snapped up a DEV-50 this weekend at a killer price.

Also found a review of the base version (DEV-30, same as 50 sans digital zoom, GPS and rubber eye cups)

https://sites.google.com/site/sonydev30minireview/
Dang, where and how? PM me if you can...
3DBob is offline  
post #35 of 64 Old 04-12-2019, 11:03 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Dang, where and how? PM me if you can...
Ah sadly I found it on a Craigslist ad - not a store. Otherwise happy to PM you. Going to take one more dive down the rabbit hole and see if I want to try 3D a bit more. Also going to try Power Director as Vegas just kills it for me. Hate editing in Vegas.
Jet-X is offline  
post #36 of 64 Old 04-29-2019, 04:31 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
@Jet-X , do you have any examples of the DEV50? Would be interesting to see what you are seeing. Doesn't the magnification get in the way of a normal 3D shot?
Took long enough, but here's a smattering of raw footage I shot last week in Washington. Tried to give a few different examples including zoom.

Will keep up for about a week or so then will remove. Raw M2TS files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VyK...ew?usp=sharing
Jet-X is offline  
post #37 of 64 Old 04-29-2019, 05:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,445
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1087 Post(s)
Liked: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post
Took long enough, but here's a smattering of raw footage I shot last week in Washington. Tried to give a few different examples including zoom.

Will keep up for about a week or so then will remove. Raw M2TS files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VyK...ew?usp=sharing
Wow, I want! I would like to see more. This would have been so nice to have had when I wen to Africa. I took all of my 3D video with the twin gopro 3+ 3D system and there was no stabilization and no zoom and really missed a lot.
3DBob is offline  
post #38 of 64 Old 04-29-2019, 06:53 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Wow, I want! I would like to see more. This would have been so nice to have had when I wen to Africa. I took all of my 3D video with the twin gopro 3+ 3D system and there was no stabilization and no zoom and really missed a lot.
Yeah it’s an amazing camera. It was last camera I bought, but when I sold all of them in 2017, it was most painful to let go. Ironically, at least with earlier models (DEV-3/5), when you plugged in an HDMI monitor (like a small one) it would switch recording to 2D. I will try with D-50 and see if it remains 3D. Sometimes you don’t want to have to look through the lenses to shoot.

The DEV-3/5 are like binocular versions of the TD10. The 30/50 have much wider lens spacing (IA).
Jet-X is offline  
post #39 of 64 Old 04-30-2019, 11:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post

The DEV-3/5 are like binocular versions of the TD10. The 30/50 have much wider lens spacing (IA).
What is the IA on those btw?

The TD10's best feature is the built in image stabilization and smaller size, good for walking around without additional stabilizer need, but it's at the bottom of my 3D cameras quality range and only interlaced recording and I believe all the recording is the same on the DEV models. All that and these command a steep price tag I've never though they were worth it. Hard to justify when 4K looks so much better.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #40 of 64 Old 04-30-2019, 11:47 AM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
What is the IA on those btw?

The TD10's best feature is the built in image stabilization and smaller size, good for walking around without additional stabilizer need, but it's at the bottom of my 3D cameras quality range and only interlaced recording and I believe all the recording is the same on the DEV models. All that and these command a steep price tag I've never though they were worth it. Hard to justify when 4K looks so much better.

The TD10 had a 31mm IA distance, but on the DEV-50 I don't remember what they were (I believe 68-72mm). And this camera does have both steady shot and active steady shot, plus uses new sensors (it's not the same as the TD10/20).

It does only record interlace, but for my needs it more than suffices and I don't have to fumble with more than one camera. Whip out, record, all good. This is the camera Sony should have built in a professional-like rig (i.e. HXR-NX3D1) with 24p option (even though I don't record 24p) and the Blu-Ray association should have supported the AVCHD format. It's the same crap with 4K. Most cameras record 4K/30p (some record 24/60p), but the 4K Blu-Ray standard only supports 24p/60p.
Jet-X is offline  
post #41 of 64 Old 04-30-2019, 01:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
I never tried burning any BD's with AVCHD, but I mostly only output digital formats, top/bottom or side by side. But as long as you have a player that supports AVCHD that is an option for interlaced recording.

UHD you can upconvert 30p to 60p, not as good as native but at least it would be compatible for the disc if disc output is needed. For 3D projects that would go to Blu ray, I only shoot 24p. What I find the most difficult is deciding what cameras to take, it depends on the project but over the weekend I shot some civil war battle footage, took my GoPro rig to test it out first time and my big 3DA1 camera. I already have last 2 or 3 years footage with the 3DA1 so I'll have footage that will match, wanted to shoot 4K but the difference will be obvious.

But for the distance shots, I wish I had brought my 4K rig and set it up with cameras at the max 5" apart. Glancing at the GoPro footage though it looks like it will match up pretty good with 3DA1, they're close in quality, 3DA1 I think is better, but I don't have the color graded yet on GoPro footage. I had the GoPro rig set up for 2.7k medium 24p RAW and flat color profile. And I like the wide angle, it's not as wide in medium mode since it has the sensor cropped.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #42 of 64 Old 05-01-2019, 10:16 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
tom- FYI- I have a preset color LUT I use that matches the curves for REC709 I use for the GoPro Flat. There are others in my Color grading set in Adobe Premiere but I find the REC 709 looks the most natural. The others are for creative Hollywood Director stuff. I think Barry created his own LUT but that is for underwater color. That is a completely different correction set.

I'm doing mostly 5.7K 30fps shooting in VR360 2D these days except for VR360 3D which is 4K 30 fps. VR180 3D is also 5.7K 30 fps.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #43 of 64 Old 05-01-2019, 11:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
I haven't taken any footage of my GoPro into VP yet, I had some presets already saved, will see how they look. I think I'm liking the overall look of 2.7k medium. I wasn't sure if the wide angle would be too much but I think it looks very good without too much fish eye in medium crop. I don't think I'll replace the lenses in them. VR I got my goggles sold at garage sale last week. Only used them once, taking up space on shelf. If I ever get into VR it will have to be with a dedicated viewer. But I'm not going to bother until I upgrade PC's. My system is just too old for it.

I'll see if I can list all my 3D gear to date. I can't recall ever posting a complete list so far but this thread seems appropriate.

Sony 4K3D AX1003D rig strictly project work. side by side portable rig. Over/under rig for macro work.
Panasonic AG-3DA1 -strictly project work.
Panasonic HDC-Z1000 project work or home video
2x Sony TD10 home video stuff, walking around, light easy to use and carry, great image stabilization.
2x GoPro 3D systems likely for projects, from mounted position. Audio isn't great will have to dub from another camera.
Red Hydrogen 1 phone so I should always have a 3D camera with me(stills and video but limited range of 3D close IA)
Panasonic 3D1 (don't use much anymore, my phone has replaced it.
Fuji W3 3D (stills only for outdoor landscapes, still using this one)

I nearly picked up a Sony NX3d1 this year but I ended up declining to bid on it last minute. I keep coming back to the fact it's basically a TD10 with xlr's and 24p. I already have several cameras that shoot 24p and are better than that one. So I'm done with the HD 3D cameras I want. Next year I'm looking at getting something that's 4K and has genlock for 3D possibly to replace my AX100 rig.

This line intentionally left blank.

Last edited by tomtastic; 05-01-2019 at 11:59 PM.
tomtastic is online now  
post #44 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 10:08 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
tom, my two favorite 3D high res cameras now are the Vuze+, Vuze XR and the instaEVO. I don't have the insta EVO but have seen the footage in the Oculus Go and the quality is even better than the VuzeXR. While both VuzeXR and the EVO shoot 5.7K 30fps, the EVO has superior image stabilization, even better than the GoPro Hero 7. Combine that with it's size and I see it as a 3D camera for mounting on my hat. The VuzeXR has image stabilization and horizon leveling but not as good as the EVO. The quality is now claimed to be better than the $3000-$6000 3D cameras of 2018 vintage and it's only $419.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #45 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 10:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Problem is those aren't really 3D cameras. They work for VR gear better I'm sure but the lensing is just too wide for traditional 3D screens plus square image framing. I was hoping that wasn't the case for awhile because there were a few I was interested in, but it would be impossible to use the footage for 3D work. They use the full 4:3 square sensor imaging with a really wide lens like 180-200 degrees, so even if you managed to crop out a usable portion in the center it's just far too much fish eye distortion to be used for 3D plus the extra disparity once you've cropped. That and as I posted in other thread, they like to boast by their overall resolution but it's not really that much, less than 3K resolution/eye.

The GoPro Hero 3 with 2.7K resolution is really much better than what these 180 cameras do, if you want to view on traditional screens and use footage with 3D cameras and screens.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #46 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 11:40 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Quote:
Problem is those aren't really 3D cameras.
Actually they are REAL 3D cameras. But they display best in Virtual REALity.

What they aren't are 3D cameras that work BEST in a 6 year older technology. As I've been saying for some time, 3D is not dead, it is evolving into something even more real than what he had before.


Quote:
The GoPro Hero 3 with 2.7K resolution is really much better than what these 180 cameras do, if you want to view on traditional screens and use footage with 3D cameras and screens.
Yes, the new 3D cameras produce a more realistic experience in an HMD than trying to view them on an old flat screen TV. But the 3D experience with the GoPro's in the GoPro case rendered out to 1080P flat screen, while great for 6 year old technology is not as realistic as the new VR360 or VR180 3D presentations. For example- put the GoPro 3D system on the football field at the line of scrimmage. It's tunnel vision in 3D. Now put a VR360 3D camera in the same place and you get the feeling you are one of the players. You can quickly look all around while the GoPro is fixed and you are blind outside your field of view.

I have no problem with traditional older technology for 3D and still use it where appropriate. I even keep a pair of high optical quality anaglyph glasses right here near my monitor. How old is that? But I am embracing the new direction for what it offers the older didn't.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752

Last edited by Don Landis; 05-02-2019 at 11:54 AM.
Don Landis is offline  
post #47 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Yes, I didn't mean they weren't 3D, but because this thread is about stereoscopic cameras, they're not real stereoscopic cameras that can be displayed correctly on traditional screens. They are formatted for VR so they don't really belong here in this thread. Some can shoot 3D in 180 mode and 360 mode and they are 3D but not 3D that you can use for existing 3D screens. Anyone wanting to pick up a 3D camera needs to know the difference, it would be better to keep them separate.

For awhile I thought it might be possible to use a 180 3D camera in place of a GoPro 3D camera but there's simply too much wide angle and you'd have to crop the square imaging down to 1.78 (loss of image and resolution). If you're starting with a 5.7K image which is essentially only 2.85k/eye after you crop you end up less than 2.7 from GoPro. Of course in 24p on GoPro you have a 1.85 frame either leave it or crop the sides, 30p there's no crop for some reason.

I was debating in another thread about what is more immersive framing. 2.35 or square imaging. Some seem to think we see in 2.35 framing. There's a reason why VR viewers use square imaging, because it's closer to what human vision can take in so the taller imaging makes sense. IMAX uses taller imaging and the academy ratio got it right all those years ago. Now it's debatable what is more cinematic, I tend to agree that 2.35 is better. It's like looking at photographs, portrait shots are good for looking at people, landscapes are better in landscape or panoramic views which is why 2.35 is still used gathering in more scope of a scene. But if want to delve inside the image more and become more immersed, closer to what our human vision can achieve we have to forego some standards like 24p and scope framing, like VR.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #48 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 02:48 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
tom there is a lot of misinformation in your post, but that's OK, I get where you are coming from. Basically, you can view 3D video shot with a VR180 camera on a flat screen using Google cardboard to display it in L+ R SBS. You don't need cardboard phone holder either. You do need special glasses. But if you want to eliminate types of glasses to justify the claim that these cameras don't do 3D then how much do you eliminate?

fact is over the years we have had many different formats of 3D stereoscopic viewing. And not all had to be one aspect ratio either. The first stereoscopic 3D was square SBS format. Then we had film in anaglyph.

But the bottom line is 3D is evolving and while in the past we have had all sorts of viewing formats, the fact is passive LCD and OLED as well as active flat screen projectors are quickly becoming obsolete as anaglyph films of the 50's. What remains with us for stereoscopic 3D is the tradition of SideBySide, and Over/under formatted imaging. That's because we see 3D with two eyes side by side, or over under ( head lying on the side). Cameras do the same thing, two cameras side by side.

There is a recent technology that uses a new single camera and a scanning sensor, LIDAR which draws a map of the surface with a laser beam and measures the distance. This then warps the 2D camera image to a 3D surface giving us depth. This is used in facial recognition cameras like on the iphone. These are 3D as well.

But I agree, if you have a passive or active 3D TV and want a camera, the one that can display on that technology the easiest is a flat image ( no fisheye ) SBS video camera system. The VR180 3D would require a correction algorithm to adjust for geometry distortion. You know Sony has such a software that can adjust extreme WA lenses to flat screen no distortion images. I have only seen this on the NEX cameras but it does exist for 110, 135, 180 FOV lenses. If I load up a file conversion GoPro photo from the extreme WA, superwide setting into the NEX camera then play it in the camera I can come close to complete correction of the borders for a wide angle image. It does some stretching and compression so that is the artifact, lower resolution in those areas of the picture border.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #49 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 03:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
There's only so much evolving 3D can do based on viewing habits and platforms. If we stick with projecting dual 2D images onto a flat screen as it has been in stereoscopic days we've really reached the limit of where we can go with 3D and as far as cameras we're basically at the limit too, we can increase resolution, frame rate, brightness, screen size etc. but there's really an end point here given human vision and distance to the screen as far as immersion factor, that's on traditional flat screens. Given that 2D viewing is most preferable and 3D is more niche, VR is really the niche within the niche. Yes, stereoscopic 3D has been in many different formats over time, but the end result is the same, two parallax images projected onto a 2D frame. Basically, it's the same now as it was in the 50's, more or less.

VR and traditional 3D, the main difference is the viewing platform which are entirely different. It can be derived in the same manner with dual spaced lenses but the projection is entirely different which is why they shouldn't be consider a 3D camera in the traditional sense. The framing for one which is better suited for VR gear, not wider framed TV's. The ultra wide lenses are another problem if you try to view them on a flat tv, the results are abysmal yes, maybe in post you could apply some correction to some degree but wouldn't it be better to have the correct lenses to begin with? Storytelling is another, there may be a place for 360 viewing but so far it hasn't interested Hollywood. 3D evolving into VR, I don't know. I think there's stereoscopic 3D and then there's VR.

Getting people to wear even more cumbersome glasses is going to be a tuff sell even in a home market. Keep in mind, every attempt by some pioneering directors that try to make the medium more immersive like Cameron, Jackson and Ang Lee seem to be met with backlash and resistance.

Trying to think of any stereoscopic cameras released these days. The last true 3D cameras released were the Sony TD30, the GoPro Hero 3 plus Black kit in 2014 and nothing until just last year the Hydrogen One phone, which has normal framed dual images, non fisheye normal FOV so they'll work on any 3D TV or projector. It's the only 3D camera released since 2014 aside from the VR stuff, only problem is the IA is close so it's only good up close like 5 or 6 feet beyond that it just looks flat.

This line intentionally left blank.

Last edited by tomtastic; 05-02-2019 at 04:03 PM.
tomtastic is online now  
post #50 of 64 Old 05-02-2019, 05:26 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
One of the advantages of 3D VR is it does handle close and distance with full 3D solidity. It's at first experience, rather striking improvement over legacy flat screen 3D. The reason is the screen is spherical and the projected image is equirectangular which is a more complex distortion on flat screen than basic wide angle.

But you are correct, that the only good way to view all these 3D stereoscopic scenes is with some form of glasses or goggles. This will be the case until the Holodeck is invented. The closest I have seen to this is at Disney with the Avatar attraction. But you still have to wear the goggles.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #51 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 12:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Yep, the only way we can become more immersed is by having the images closer to our eyes and approximating closer to what they are capable of seeing. This means moving beyond traditional flat screens, that's where VR takes over. It is the next step, the problem is getting there. Right now, there's more incentive to remove the glasses from the equation and VR is even more cumbersome than most 3D glasses and how to reproduce what VR can glasses free? Yeah, holodecks. I don't know.

Unless they can pair down the size until it's like regular glasses or maybe contact lenses, someday.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is online now  
post #52 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 08:26 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
tom- there may be another factor in the equation--

Glasses free was made possible when the TD10 and their competitors demonstrated it was possible to do, but that technology had too many limitations the general public refused to recognize, but we owners of it understood. So for the general public, there was hope for glasses free.

With VR in the HMD the glasses became big goggles, further step away from goggles free. Many still cling to the glasses free and now want to carry that to VR HMD. Unfortunately there is nothing out that hints this is possible, only sci fi.

BUT, VR gave the public more incentive to use it because it offers much more experience than traditional 3D on a flat screen Doesn't mean 3D on a flat screen is going away and is being replaced by VR. It just means there is a new kid who moved into the media neighborhood with different experiences. The gamers have embraced this VR early on while media production is still trying to figure out how to best use it's key benefits. Here is what the film producers are bringing to the table:
1. Documentaries with a put you, the viewer there.
2. Interactive stories where you are one of the actors in the drama. The story changes depending on how you the HMD VR wearer react to the others in the story.
3. Travel maps. Let's go on a tour of a place.
4. Advertising- play with a new device and be able to examine all sides of it.
5. Real Estate- Tour a property
6. Design- Look at a vacant home and add furniture and fixtures to see what it might be like to live there.
7. Porn- Interact with a date or just observe. Yeah that industry has already embraced this new media technology.
8. Watch a traditional flat screen production inside a VR environment- imagine sitting in a crowded theater with the movie on the big screen; or build a half million dollar Home Theater to watch your movie. Add Dolby Atmos to your Living room TV set. Finally, experience the environment of the movie in an IMAX theater screen while sitting on a cross country flight, cramped in your seat with other passengers.

The Oculus Go seems to be priced and designed more for the media experience than for Gamers, but it still can do games. 100% wireless now just improves the experience.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #53 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 09:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Steve P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 119
[QUOTE= flat screen projectors are quickly becoming obsolete as anaglyph films of the 50's. .[/QUOTE]

Don, surely as an enthusiast of all things stereoscopic, you aren't under the mis-conception that 3-D movies in the 1950's were presented in anaglyph? They were not. When will that myth die? Every feature the studios released was exhibited in dual interlock polarized projection.

www.3dfilmarchive.com has a whole section about myths regarding 3-D movies. It's well worth a look - and so are the classic films themselves, as they have far more impressive 3-D than anything in multiplexes today.

Last edited by Steve P.; 05-03-2019 at 09:34 AM.
Steve P. is offline  
post #54 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 10:33 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Steve- actually, I experienced my first anaglyph media in the comic books of the late 50's, not the movies. But about the same time period, my first exposure to 3D stereography was the viewers and the post card side by side.

These were at my grandparents house and he was a huge fan and collected thousands of the cards. I don't recall seeing 3D in the movies for another 20 years until I saw it at Disney. I'm more a hands on guy with all things 3D media, not so much 3D games. So I bow to your expertise on the history of the technology as that is something I really haven't spent much time on. You can teach it and I will learn from you, I will do it and you can watch what I do. Thanks for the correction.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	s-l200.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	3.7 KB
ID:	2561930  

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #55 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 11:04 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Quote:
www.3dfilmarchive.com has a whole section about myths regarding 3-D movies. It's well worth a look - and so are the classic films themselves, as they have far more impressive 3-D than anything in multiplexes today.
OK, I took you up on your offer to get educated in the history of 3D movies. I recently rented the Jivaro movie and recall the Creature from the Black Lagoon from my childhood but don't recall it in 3D. This is one film that was stated as re-released in anaglyph in the 70's and later again on DVD. I also saw that Anaglyph was actually first published before the Civil War so it's been around for print media for a long time.

Anyway thanks for the history lesson, now I have to get back to some VR360 2D editing of my recent stroll through the town of Getsemani, Colombia. Later I will be publishing a VR360 underwater drift dive in Bonaire. I shot this place twice now in flat screen 3D with the GoPro and this time now in VR360 with the Insta360 OneX.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #56 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 11:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Steve P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 946
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 119
It was Viewmaster reels that first sparked my interest, but when I saw a 1976 re-issue of "The Bubble", I was hooked. Not long after I picked up a Stereo Realist, and ventured into the word of stereo photography, and was able to experience the 1980's mini-revival of 3-D cinema, warts and all.

However, being fortunate enough to attend the three World 3-D Film Expos in 2003, 2006 and 2013 allowed me to finally experience the marvels of the golden age movies under optimal conditions. Watching these films finally get the respect they deserve, often in the company of the craftpersons and actors involved, was something I will remember forever. Having many of these available to me to watch at home is icing on the cake.

The thing with the older 3-D movies is that quite simply, they blow the newer ones out of the water. It is too bad some of the modern film makers don't study them, as they would certainly have both of their eyes opened. These days, almost all films are converted anyway, and much of the work is excellent, but I'd really love to see someone shoot a movie natively and not be so restrained. Out of the latest wave of native movies, only a handful even come close to what they achieved 65 years ago, with now antiquated equipment! That is simply amazing to me.

These days, my Realist is a shelf artifact and I use a Fuji W3, which still works for my needs.
Steve P. is offline  
post #57 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 06:00 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1481 Post(s)
Liked: 438
Yeah, I had a Viewmaster too but never really got interested in 3D stereography film and video until I saw it well done at DisneyWorld in the 80's. Back then I was pretty envolved with shooting video underwater, having graduated from 16mm film. I didn't begin experimenting with 3D video until Sony came out with the 3D Bloggie. Then I bought the TD10 and still use that TD10 as my rough and tumble camera for on boats and thru the windshield in my car. Although, I am thinking about upgrading that now to the newer 5.7K VR180 cams.

I'm not with you on the older movies. Many, especially in the SciFi genre are too corny today. The special effects look like kids Halloween costumes. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

My 3D and 360VR videos and more
Don Landis HT System: Projector Sony VPL VW665ES Players: Samsung UBD K8500 OPPO BD93 Sony BDP S6200 All Regions Player Denon AVR S940, 7.1 JBL Professional series and Klipsch PS3, XBOX360, Dish VIP722K; 3D Edit Suite:Adobe Premiere, Edius7.53, Vegas Pro v13, Power Director16, i9-7980XE/GTX1080Ti, LG 3D TV DM2752
Don Landis is offline  
post #58 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 08:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Barry C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,455
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 317 Post(s)
Liked: 201
Ah yes, a stroll down memory lane! A 3D view master in the 50s, a used 3D Realist in the early 70s, a Nashika in the 80s, a pro level rail system for large lenticular 3D prints from a company in the early 90s ( I can't remember their name) I used for medium format 3D stills, and finally JVC-TD1s, and Gopro Duals 2012 to present. What a long strange trip it's been!
Barry C is offline  
post #59 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 10:01 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1270 Post(s)
Liked: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post

However, being fortunate enough to attend the three World 3-D Film Expos in 2003, 2006 and 2013 allowed me to finally experience the marvels of the golden age movies under optimal conditions. Watching these films finally get the respect they deserve, often in the company of the craftpersons and actors involved, was something I will remember forever. Having many of these available to me to watch at home is icing on the cake.

The thing with the older 3-D movies is that quite simply, they blow the newer ones out of the water. It is too bad some of the modern film makers don't study them, as they would certainly have both of their eyes opened. These days, almost all films are converted anyway, and much of the work is excellent, but I'd really love to see someone shoot a movie natively and not be so restrained. Out of the latest wave of native movies, only a handful even come close to what they achieved 65 years ago, with now antiquated equipment! That is simply amazing to me.

These days, my Realist is a shelf artifact and I use a Fuji W3, which still works for my needs.
On the Realist, I was tempted to pick one up but I've never owned a film camera and at this late date I don't want to bother. But it is 3D and I'm everything 3D but I also have the Fuji though so it's really tough to justify picking one up now. With a good film scanner though 14-20mp images vs 7.2 on the Fuji.

Classic era. It's really amazing to see these films. Most, I've never seen before picking up on Blu ray 3D. I suppose at the time they looked awful, which was due to the projection issues. But now, they really do look quite good and it's interesting that all those years ago, they were able to film 3D at that level but look at the size of that camera though, that's what it took then.

Today, I would say we definitely have better capability now, problem is most movies are converted and we know they're decent for conversions since not enough directors shoot native anyway and all the cgi. But there's one big reason why digital is better than film with 3D and that's the scanning process always leaves the frames out of 3D alignment. I've had some problems watching some of these movies on my projection screen, since I sit pretty close and you can see the two frames moving in and out at times, can be pretty eye straining. Digital that's all locked in. At further distances it's not so bad. Switching to my 65" screen behind the pull down screen it's not so bad on the eyes. That's a problem with any filmed 3D, even IMAX films today, I've seen it on those too.

I think for 3D movies and if it will evolve somehow into a VR viewer of some sort, I think that takes a lot of the experience away. We're still used to seeing images at some distance and sharing the experience with others. VR sort of takes that away. Part of it is nostalgia but I just got through watching Sangaree other day on projector, the movie was so-so, 50's were way before my time but I appreciate what went into that film and the 3D which at least after the restoration is pretty darn good. Looking forward to Jivaro next. For me it's not always about if the movie is a great movie, a lot of the times I just want to see something old and be impressed by the experience. There's some like The Mask, movie itself, not so great. Others though, September Storm, Inferno, Gun Fury, very enjoyable to see these. These movies make me want to host a Classic 3D movie night. You want to share the experience.

This line intentionally left blank.

Last edited by tomtastic; 05-03-2019 at 10:04 PM.
tomtastic is online now  
post #60 of 64 Old 05-03-2019, 10:44 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 36
There’s lots of Vr content, but I’d argue most of it is either boring, or doesn’t really use Vr360 other than “being there” as a gimmick. People think filming 360 is enough, but when your subject is still front and center, and the only 360 thing is to just look around, it gets old really fast. I’ve had VR (ignoring early 1990s days) since Oculus was shipping development systems, have had GoPro rigs, Insta360 pro, Oculus Rift and now Oculus Go (and Hololens) and none get much use these days.

Filming something compelling in VR (let alone 3D) isn’t easy - and it’s one reason why we all still watch on flat screens: it’s easier to tell a story. VR is at best a niche, or at worst a gimmick outside of gaming.

That being said, most people I know who are tech geeks and adopt everything, most shun VR and won’t buy any headset. And no, I’m not down on VR - but outside gaming I haven’t found anything compelling on it. I’ve experimented with shooting some small features, but most would be better off as VR180. I’m going to play and compare the Insta360 Evo out as I have a few ideas.

I still like my 3D non-VR cameras.
Jet-X is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 3D Source Components

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off