3D stereoscopic camera in 2018 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Spektre99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
3D stereoscopic camera in 2018

When the first 3D DLP sets hit the market, I jumped on and grabbed one, along with a couple fixed focus cameras on an adjustable rod and took some home movies. While still came out great, the lack of synchronization between the 2 cameras just lead to a very hit or miss proposition of my output.

This combined with the TV’s difficulty getting in and out of 3D mode (I used to laugh you had to sacrifice a cat to get it switched) and the early TV’s checkerboard mode which halved the resolution turned me off the hobby for a bit. I always intended to return to the hobby when the displays and cameras got better. For years I looked at a Loreo adapter for my DSLR camera, but I do not like the output they produce and do not want an 8:9 final result.

Well, as you are all aware, they got a little better and then disappeared. So last year, I decided I’d better grab some gear before it is gone. Several scam websites later, I have secured a JU7100 series 4k/3D Samsung display which looks great IMO and switches in and out of 3D flawlessly. Now I need to work on camera(s).
Although this is likely opening a holy war…. Suggestions? I’ve spent the last week reading this entire forum and admit to leaning toward a TD10. I would be interested other suggestions and if there are any readily available genlock solutions available. (I’ve seen reference to linked GoPro’s)

Last edited by Spektre99; 10-22-2018 at 08:00 PM.
Spektre99 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 06:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 550
The TD10 or TD20 are good for 3D video if you can still find them--watch for ripoff. Some on Amazon and Ebay, but expensive. There are other 3D video cameras that are bigger and take better video, but harder to find these days.

As for still 3D cameras that do video (though not as good as the TD10/TD20) there are two I recommend: The Panasonic 3d1 and the Fuji FinePix W3. They both take great 3D MPO still pics (MPO files contain two full frame HD still images). The 3d1 does HD SBS video and the Fuji does AVI 3D video. They can be found on Amazon and Ebay, but buyer beware. There are still Japanese language versions floating around, but I recommend the US versions.

There is also the Gopro 3+ synconized 3D kit. You have to buy two Gopro 3+ cameras, usually used, and a 3D kit such as this (https://www.amazon.com/GoPro-System-...dp/B00J9RO4U20). They do popup on Amazon and Ebay as well. The 3+ cameras are actually showing up cheap on Ebay these days: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gopro-HERO-...2/362130337345. Typically, some of the 3+ cameras images do not align perfectly for 3D, which can only be realigned in editing software. This is really a camera system that demands a lot of posting editing for stabilization, 3D alignment, sharpness, etc.

Good luck...
3DBob is offline  
post #3 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 07:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
The Panasonic 3D1 doesn't show up very often any more, it's pretty much a collector's camera now so be prepared to pay a bundle for a camera that's 7 years old, likely way more than the original MSRP. The Fuji W3 is really only good for stills, the video quality isn't up to HD standards but there's usually several on eBay for decent price. It uses older CCD sensor technology and I've noticed on mine several pixels are out. The PD1 uses newer CMOS sensors and I haven't noticed any bad pixels yet on mine.

Yes, for video the TD10 is probably the best option on price and quality. They show up frequently priced between 350-650, make sure it's a US model, not PAL. There was the TD20 and 30 but they are priced higher for really no reason other than being a year or two newer, so save some money and just get the TD10.

For output the TD10 only shoots interlaced footage so that does limit full HD options. For Blu ray 3D you would have to convert to either 1080p24 or 720p60 or for digital 1080p30 looks really good. You can easily output half resolution file. Full resolution is possible if you have a 4K 3D screen using either side by side or top bottom full output.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Spektre99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks for the input.

There seems to be a whole line of Panasonic 3D camcorders that came out, that fit somewhere between the point and shoot and the 10k I kept reading about. Are any of those stand outs?

Such as:

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC.../dp/B004I43MJU
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC...r/dp/003XREDVE

What's the feeling of the Z10k vs the AG-3DA1?

Last edited by Spektre99; 10-22-2018 at 08:24 PM.
Spektre99 is offline  
post #5 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 09:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Not sure on those links, one of those I think uses a converter lens on a 2D camera so that produces half resolution files. I have both the Z10k and AG-3DA1, they're very different cameras. The 3DA1 is a professional camera and quite a lot bigger but it produces dual stream files vs a more compressed single MVC file. It also has hd sdi outputs so an external recorder can be used but it's a full manual camera so some ease of use drawbacks. It was the first full HD 3D camcorder so it had a prototype price of 21,000 when it came out but shortly after that there were other models released from other manufacturers including the Z10k also by Panasonic.

The Z10k I consider prosumer overall but it has a few professional features as well, a very capable run and gun camera.

If it was me I would start off with a TD10 or a JVC TD1, they're about the cheapest full HD 3D camcorders and see what you think. If you want more features like XLR inputs, 24p recording, then you'll have to look at the Sony Nx3d1, Panasonic Z10k, jvc gy-hmz1u or Panasonic 3DA1 which are the top end 3D camcorders.

Keep in mind these cameras only shoot at HD and we're in the 4K area now. I've been shooting with a dual camera 4K system for awhile now about 2 years, no it's not in perfect sync but sync is largely overrated. If you're shooting fast action then it will show mis sync so I try to avoid that type of thing. Overall, the 4K3D rig is my best 3D rig even with mis sync, next would be the 3DA1. I have a couple TD10's and a Z10k, they are pretty close in quality, the Z10k has better color and a little sharper, of course a lot more options on the Z10k. The TD10, I like it because it's small and easy to carry and it has really good image stabilization.

Here's a video comparison of the Z10k and 3DA1 I did awhile back:

And my AX1003D rig:

You'll need to play the 2160p version to get 4K 3D resolution:

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #6 of 35 Old 10-22-2018, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Spektre99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Not sure on those links, one of those I think uses a converter lens on a 2D camera so that produces half resolution files. I have both the Z10k and AG-3DA1, they're very different cameras. The 3DA1 is a professional camera and quite a lot bigger but it produces dual stream files vs a more compressed single MVC file. It also has hd sdi outputs so an external recorder can be used but it's a full manual camera so some ease of use drawbacks. It was the first full HD 3D camcorder so it had a prototype price of 21,000 when it came out but shortly after that there were other models released from other manufacturers including the Z10k also by Panasonic.
I am not a pro so full manual is probably going to leave the 3DA1 off my plate unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
The Z10k I consider prosumer overall but it has a few professional features as well, a very capable run and gun camera.

If it was me I would start off with a TD10 or a JVC TD1, they're about the cheapest full HD 3D camcorders and see what you think. If you want more features like XLR inputs, 24p recording, then you'll have to look at the Sony Nx3d1, Panasonic Z10k, jvc gy-hmz1u or Panasonic 3DA1 which are the top end 3D camcorders.
Thanks for the recommendations. With the lack of playback options (I probably won't be able to show these to my family and friends) I'll be watching them on my TV and that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Keep in mind these cameras only shoot at HD and we're in the 4K area now. I've been shooting with a dual camera 4K system for awhile now about 2 years,
How do you watch this? I thought HDMI limited us to 3D 1080p/24? No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
no it's not in perfect sync but sync is largely overrated.
Lack of sync is what got me out of this hobby the first time around. Videos I took either worked or didn't work based on the luck of the clock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
If you're shooting fast action then it will show mis sync so I try to avoid that type of thing. Overall, the 4K3D rig is my best 3D rig even with mis sync, next would be the 3DA1. I have a couple TD10's and a Z10k, they are pretty close in quality, the Z10k has better color and a little sharper, of course a lot more options on the Z10k. The TD10, I like it because it's small and easy to carry and it has really good image stabilization.
So I am probably leaning toward the TD10 and then perhaps making some dual camera rig with genlock. Would the TD10's files be viewable on my TV without the camcorder. Turning interlaced video into progressive for viewing sounds terrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Here's a video comparison of the Z10k and 3DA1 I did awhile back:
https://youtu.be/jrJY7JQnHp4
I was just looking at this video earlier tonight Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
And my AX1003D rig:

You'll need to play the 2160p version to get 4K 3D resolution:
https://youtu.be/oMQJppBXs9I
I'm a bit confused what you mean by 4k 3D resolution.
Spektre99 is offline  
post #7 of 35 Old 10-23-2018, 10:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
You would need to use a NLE program to edit your files, limiting the playback with the camera is not ideal. I suppose you could just copy your files back to SD card then play with camera to screen. As long as you copy the entire card data over and save it then transfer it back to card it should work. Most of us here use at least 1 or 2 NLE programs to edit multiple cameras together.

4K3D resolution isn't an official standard but some 3D flat screens can display half 4K3D resolution like LG's passive 4K 3D screens (in top/bottom mode) and some select Samsung models from 2014-15 (in side by side mode) I don't know which models, a few were posted on here years back. You have to film in 4K with 2 cameras then produce a 3840x2160 top/bottom half file (or side by side for Samsung), this will produce 3840x1080 per eye of resolution. HDMI 1.4 and up can handle 4K resolution it's just up to the screen then to display that in 3D. It's not standard though and only half 4K/eye but still double that of Blu ray 3D. Also, even if you downscale to HD resolution the quality is superior because your film source is higher. With my AX100's it's still 8 bit video but I do notice the colors are more accurate than any 8 bit HD camera I've used, and a major improvement coming from 8mp video vs. 2mp when downscaled. And there's some other things going on there too, bigger lens, bigger sensor, higher data recording, etc.

Interlaced vs. progressive. I prefer progressive, the interlaced look is quite awful to me, appearing lower resolution so I always convert 60i to 30p. I'd rather see judder than interlacing.

I think the TD10 would be a great place to start, that way you don't get too much money into it, then decide if you want to pay more for one of the pro cameras. The TD10 doesn't have a lot of options, it only shoots 1080i60 for 3D no 24p mode, but some have converted to 720p60 for Blu ray 3D output with good results, or just output to digital file 1080p30 half resolution. If you have a PC with Power DVD you could create MVC digital files but you also need a GPU that will handle 3D, I've never used that method.

This line intentionally left blank.

Last edited by tomtastic; 10-23-2018 at 10:06 AM.
tomtastic is offline  
post #8 of 35 Old 10-23-2018, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Spektre99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
You would need to use a NLE program to edit your files, limiting the playback with the camera is not ideal. I suppose you could just copy your files back to SD card then play with camera to screen. As long as you copy the entire card data over and save it then transfer it back to card it should work. Most of us here use at least 1 or 2 NLE programs to edit multiple cameras together.

4K3D resolution isn't an official standard but some 3D flat screens can display half 4K3D resolution like LG's passive 4K 3D screens (in top/bottom mode) and some select Samsung models from 2014-15 (in side by side mode) I don't know which models, a few were posted on here years back. You have to film in 4K with 2 cameras then produce a 3840x2160 top/bottom half file (or side by side for Samsung), this will produce 3840x1080 per eye of resolution. HDMI 1.4 and up can handle 4K resolution it's just up to the screen then to display that in 3D. It's not standard though and only half 4K/eye but still double that of Blu ray 3D. Also, even if you downscale to HD resolution the quality is superior because your film source is higher. With my AX100's it's still 8 bit video but I do notice the colors are more accurate than any 8 bit HD camera I've used, and a major improvement coming from 8mp video vs. 2mp when downscaled. And there's some other things going on there too, bigger lens, bigger sensor, higher data recording, etc.

Interlaced vs. progressive. I prefer progressive, the interlaced look is quite awful to me, appearing lower resolution so I always convert 60i to 30p. I'd rather see judder than interlacing.

I think the TD10 would be a great place to start, that way you don't get too much money into it, then decide if you want to pay more for one of the pro cameras. The TD10 doesn't have a lot of options, it only shoots 1080i60 for 3D no 24p mode, but some have converted to 720p60 for Blu ray 3D output with good results, or just output to digital file 1080p30 half resolution. If you have a PC with Power DVD you could create MVC digital files but you also need a GPU that will handle 3D, I've never used that method.
Thanks. I'll have to see if my Samsung JU7100 series will do "4k3D"
Spektre99 is offline  
post #9 of 35 Old 10-24-2018, 07:02 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Along with Tom's recommendations about 4K 3D, I would add that no projector will do 4K SBS 3D or any 4K 3D in any format. I see you are not talking about projectors, but if others are reading this, they might get confused.
3DBob is offline  
post #10 of 35 Old 10-24-2018, 09:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
It might be possible to display 4K3D with dual 4K projectors in a passive 3D setup but yes, active projectors are only capable of displaying 1080p 3D as well as most active 4K flat panels. All 4K passive LG screens can display 3D in UHD resolution from late 2013-2016 models and I found an old post that Samsung HU8550 and HU9000 series will support half 4K3D in side by side mode. I don't know what other models (if any) also support it.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #11 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 05:06 AM
Senior Member
 
relaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I just bought a LG 49UB850V for $400 with one year warranty!
This is my first 4k-3d passive tv after a 42LW5500.

All i can say is WOW! I can sit closer, and still don't see horizontal lines.
Now i have fullhd/eye quality. OR with my own videos even better:
with a cheap hdmi stick (S905x chipset+Libreelec), i can playback any 4k/60 content, even 4k top/bottom.
So i CAN have 3840x1080 / eye quality with dual Hero6 cams for example. Who cares the 3d bluray standard?

Now i only have Gopro3+ and Firefly 8S cameras, so the max what i can see is 3840x1080x30p/eye (sync is bad)
or 2560x1080x60p/eye, where sync is acceptable.

Man, this looks crytal clear!!
Can't think that LG discontinued 3D at this quality.
And UB850 is an entry level model. How good could be an OLED passive 4k 3D tv?...
danlshane likes this.

Last edited by relaxman; 10-25-2018 at 10:30 AM.
relaxman is offline  
post #12 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
It might be possible to display 4K3D with dual 4K projectors in a passive 3D setup but yes, active projectors are only capable of displaying 1080p 3D as well as most active 4K flat panels. All 4K passive LG screens can display 3D in UHD resolution from late 2013-2016 models and I found an old post that Samsung HU8550 and HU9000 series will support half 4K3D in side by side mode. I don't know what other models (if any) also support it.
@tomtastic , what container, file format, etc. do you create for getting 4k 3D. I have a 60" LG passive 3D, and created an SBS 4k 2160x30p mp4 file and it couldn't read it. I sent it directly and through my bluray player. Same result. Thanks.
3DBob is offline  
post #13 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 07:33 AM
Senior Member
 
relaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Bob: use hevc (h265) codec in mkv container. Even my 2014 UB850V can play that format up to 60p framerate.
But i use a cheap $25 hdmi stick (power from tv's usb) for playback my pictures, videos up to [email protected]
relaxman is offline  
post #14 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 09:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxman View Post
I just bought a LG 49UB850V for $400 with one year warranty!
This is my first 4k-3d passive tv after a 42LW5500.

All i can say is WOW! I can sit closer, and still don't see horizontal lines.
Now i have fullhd/eye quality. OR with my own videos even better:
with a cheap hdmi stick (S905x chipset+Libreelec), i can playback any 4k/60 content, even 4k top/bottom.
So i CAN have 3840x1080 / eye quality with dual Hero6 cams for example. Who cares the 3d bluray standard?

Now i only have Gopro3+ and Firefly 8S cameras, so the max what i can see is 3840x1080x30p/eye (sync is bad)
or 2560x1080x60p/eye, where sync is acceptable.

Man, this looks crips clear!!
Can't think that LG discountinued 3D at this quality.
And UB850 is an entry level model. How good could be an OLED passive 4k 3D tv?...
I have a 65" E6 OLED model, it's even better with less crosstalk than LCD backlit models, plus the perfect blacks and colors. It's by far the best screen I've ever owned. I also have a 49" UB8500 I believe that's the same as your 850V EURO model. I picked it up used a couple years ago, also for 400.00 listed on craigslist. I use it as a 3D monitor for editing. The crosstalk is noticeable at times. The reviews also suggest it had bad crosstalk. If you sit back about 9 or 10 feet it should be OK, but closer it will show crosstalk at times.

If it's a 2014 model like my UB8500 (check the back sticker) thru HDMI it will not support 4K60 only 4K30 max, but it should work thru usb or thru Plex app built in to play content, the Plex app works pretty good for 4K content but that requires a Plex server to host your content.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #15 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 09:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
@tomtastic , what container, file format, etc. do you create for getting 4k 3D. I have a 60" LG passive 3D, and created an SBS 4k 2160x30p mp4 file and it couldn't read it. I sent it directly and through my bluray player. Same result. Thanks.
The problem is probably your BD player, did it play the file and the screen didn't display it or did the player not recognize the file? I just render to h.264 avc for 4K in VP. Right now I use a PS4 Pro and the Plex app for media player, that way I can store content with all my media content. I have another method but it requires moving data to my KDLINKS A400 4K player with built in and connected storage. They both play back 4K content really well. The KDLINKS is just for 3D.

Actually, you want to use t/b on a passive screen so that the height is not downscaled. So you would use t/b full render and each eye would get 3840x1080. SbS would be good though for those few Samsung models and VR goggles.
3DBob likes this.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #16 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 10:10 AM
Senior Member
 
relaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Tom: No, on mine all 4 hdmi connectors support 4k/60, but hdmi deep color is available only on hdmi3.
Yes, it has ghosting when i sit closer than 2 meter. I watch now from 3 m, and ghosting isn't visible.
I tested quite a long time, with different ghosting testvideos.
Your OLED is ghostfree even from 1.5-2m?
Also i think ghosting is different with every screen. It depends how good is the FPR panel alignment with screen pixels.
So a review with one TV doesn't mean anything.

At daylight picture is so bright, i don't see the need for deeper black, especially with bright scenes.
At night and with horror/scifi movies of course i see the lack of deep black.
But what is more problem for me is the clouding. The top right corner is a little darker than the other parts of the screen
which is very visible at skies and other uniform background.
Another stupid thing is the menu: very slow, i have to wait 3-4 sec to enter menu.. This was immediately with LW5500.
relaxman is offline  
post #17 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 11:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Yeah, mine's the same, it only supports Deep Color on HDMI 3. I checked PS4 Pro settings, it's getting 4K60, I think when I have my PC connected it will only allow 30hz max for some reason even though it supports 4k60, but it may be the support of the GPU. On the specs it lists h.264 30p only I'm guessing that's internal decoding support which I don't use anyway and h.265 60 support again probably for internal so might be decoding limit for h.264 for 30hz max.

I also have an older LW65" series. It's mounted over fireplace with bad angle so I don't use it for 3D much any more but it's still a good TV but only half resolution 3D capable 1080p. The OLED, you really have to see it in person to know. If you display solid black 0000, you can't tell if the screen is off or on, I have to check the red light in front to know if it's on or off. So when you have images on the screen and the rest is black it appears that only that image is on the wall. I also have walls blacked out and ceiling tiles painted a dark gray. The wall behind is also black. There was a scene in IMAX Jerusalem when they're walking thru the water corridor, there's only a little light in the center of the screen where they're walking which is really striking, the rest of the screen is turned off. It's something you have to see firsthand.

My UB8500 is a good screen too but black's like most LCD lit screens are blueish and you can see the light bleed at times. But for a monitor for 3D editing, it's good enough. OLED you do have to consider burn in so have to watch the static images. It's too bad they discontinued 3D on LG's. They were getting so good. The OLED LG's are the best 3D panels ever, lowest crosstalk, pure blacks and superior colors. I just wish I had one in 120" screen, lol. I still prefer my projector because it's big but I have both in same room so I can switch back and forth.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #18 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 11:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
As far as distance, I sit at 10 feet with 115" projector screen and the OLED is behind that 65" screen also at 10'. I've stood closer to see how close I can get before crosstalk is present, it depends on content of course but I can get about 7 or 8 feet.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #19 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Spektre99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks about the info on 4K 3D.

My JU7100 series appears to so 4k3D with T&B AND SBS. Looks really nice!
Spektre99 is offline  
post #20 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 11:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by relaxman View Post
Bob: use hevc (h265) codec in mkv container. Even my 2014 UB850V can play that format up to 60p framerate.
But i use a cheap $25 hdmi stick (power from tv's usb) for playback my pictures, videos up to [email protected]
Are you talking 2D or 3D? Thanks.
3DBob is offline  
post #21 of 35 Old 10-25-2018, 12:02 PM
Senior Member
 
relaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Doesn't matter.
4k-60 2D
4k-60 3D Half TB or Half SBS
relaxman is offline  
post #22 of 35 Old 03-16-2019, 02:14 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Tomtastic or anyone who knows:
Your video showing the difference between the Z10k and 3DA1 made me lean towards the 3DA1. I'm just getting into 3d and have spent some time reading your posts and those of others on this forum. I hope you don't mind me asking an elementary question... from what I see I can take the file from a Sony HDR 10 or 20, and I believe the z10k and put it directly on my hard drive. I could then run it through a Mede8er box and get 1080 3d on my LG TV. I do this with my blu rays ripping them with Make MKV which allows me to rip the MVC file with the rest of the video and it works fine.
Trouble is, I don't get how the 3DA1 stores the video you shoot. I mean, I get that it's on 2 cards, one for each eye, but then how do I get it to my hard drive in one file so I can then get it to the point where the Mede8er will decipher the file like it would on the other cameras?
Any information or direction to where I might find answers is appreciated.
3d4ever is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 03-16-2019, 07:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
3DA1 doesn't use MVC, it's stored (on the cards) as AVC in AVCHD container (2x 2D files). Left on one card, right on the other. You would have to use an NLE and pair them together, then output into a usable 3D stream like top/bottom, side by side or you could make a 3D ISO in Vegas Pro that's MVC. You need a more advanced NLE like VP or Edius that handles dual stream pairing for 3D, Power Director doesn't directly pair dual streams. 3DA1 also has HD SDI outputs for better compression codecs, again they would be in dual stream format. It's basically the same as shooting 3D with dual cameras or GoPro 3D, you have left files and right.

Keep in mind the 3DA1 is a much bigger camera than the other models you listed. I only use it for bigger projects and generally on a tripod. It's a full manual camera, settings and everything. Since 2016 I've been shooting with my AX1003D rig which is dual 4K cameras. It just lacks genlock sync but I think the jump in quality over HD is worth it as long as there's not a great deal of fast action which exposes the miss sync. Some content you just can't shoot with it because it's not genlocked, I have to be selective. Just shot about 90 minutes with that rig today, yearly St. Patrick's Day parade. I considered shooting with one of my HD cameras this year but I came down to this: the quality is so much better even if the mis sync shows (and I might get lucky and have great sync, depends), for best HD video you need 24p, so it's either my Z10k or the 3DA1 and then there's too much judder with the slower frame rate for shooting a parade, 60i, I generally use it for home video type stuff but I would rather shoot in 4K 30p.

Other benefits: 30p it's not interlaced like HD and I have built in ND filters, don't have to attach them manually. But the 3DA1 is still my favorite HD 3D camera. Walking around, I think I like the TD10 the best, it's only 60i/30p 3D option but it has really good image stabilization and video quality is nearly as good as the panasonic Z10k, also a good 3D camera. If I was only going to buy one...humm probably a Z10k because it's somewhere in the middle, problem now is they don't show up often for sale, well none of these are new now so, have to watch for them.

Mede8er, I don't know about that one, I have a KDLINKS box but it's picky on file types that it supports. I tried MVC from Power Director for my own content and it doesn't like that, I haven't tried from makemkv ripping blu rays, I just rip my 3D movies to iso and those play fine if the file is on the internal drive. From USB connection it will start to stutter half way thru, haven't figured out why. Something wrong with their box.

This line intentionally left blank.
tomtastic is offline  
post #24 of 35 Old 03-17-2019, 09:31 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks for your time and info. I guess I'm going to look for a TD10. I've read that the TD20 is better because of the choice on the modes it will record in and also because of white balance. Do you have opinions in that direction?

So the Mede8er is an odd box. It has a chip in it that I read is no longer available. It will decipher MVC in a MKV file so that you can stream 1080 3d (not SBS or TAB). I read on their forum that the ap "make mkv" can will work to get the MVC 3d info from an MTS (I think I am missing a letter there!!) file and convert it to an MKV file with MVC so you can stream it in 1080 3d. Hope that makes sense. These boxes aren't plentiful, not sure the distributor has them anymore but they come up on eBay.

If the Z10k put out the same kind of file as the TD10/20, then I think it would work, but nothing on their forum saying someone had tried it. The forum is pretty dead these days.

Not sure what happened to 3d... is it that some movies didn't need it and they turned people off by taking their money and then they walked out saying "why did I pay extra?" Or was it like Disco, too much all at once. Hard to say. I got a 3d TV when they were on clearance and when I watched a movie I liked it. Don't like the active glasses, but otherwise, I don't get it why people don't like it. I've gotten a headache from bad 3d like others, but then that doesn't happen 98 percent of the time. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to a newbie. Thanks again for your time.
Brad
3d4ever is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 03-17-2019, 10:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tomtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 3,070
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1191 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Not sure on the TD20 don't have that one, I believe they have the same 3D recording options as well as the TD30 which is just 1080i 60 for 3D, the biggest difference is the lenses are closer together on the TD20 and 30 models but are smaller and lighter than the 10. The handycam models all seem to have very basic picture settings, even my AX100, it wasn't until the AX700 they finally got more advanced user options.

Personally, I would just pick up a TD10, they show up a lot cheaper and you probably wouldn't notice any difference. It's great for walking around, you can get decent stable shots without using any stabilizers. But up to you, just know that the TD20 models seem to show up for over 1k on eBay, the TD10's- 350-750, I wouldn't pay more than 650 but they are getting rarer so they're going to stop showing up as much now. I wouldn't wait too long if you're going after one. You could always get a TD20 or 30 later if one shows up cheaper. I paid toward the high end of that for my first one, but it was basically brand new, original owner only used it for less than a year, that I could tell, had about 35gb of data on it. The second one I paid the low end of that range and it was a early prototype model that I could see, didn't have a serial number or FC code on it, also lacked one LCD menu feature that the production models had. Came in a plain white box. Had a clip from a Sony office building someone shooting inside office and one other clip.

There's also the JVC TD1, it's just interlaced 3D recording.

I haven't tried any MVC files from make mkv on the KDLINKS, it's supposed to support MVC files. I think I tried files from DVDfab and those didn't work, I can't remember now. I will have to do some more experimenting because I'm ready to quit using it. It's a great box but problem is space, can't fit everything on one drive and then it stutters with any attached storage. Runs Kodi.

Edit: Ran a test file thru Dvdfab for MVC MKV, I remember now, I tested before, it plays but it's just a black screen, no video at all. Audio plays. Only plays 3D in ISO unless you're doing t/b or side by side.

This line intentionally left blank.

Last edited by tomtastic; 03-18-2019 at 11:53 AM.
tomtastic is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 03-18-2019, 02:06 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thanks for all the help. Cool to have a proto! I will just pick up a TD10 and have some fun. I tend to overanalyze things when I research stuff to buy I know nothing about. Probably won't be using it all that much once I actually get it.
There is one on eBay I might offer on... trouble is it looks like he may have used it a lot... though I'm not sure that is something to even worry about. 5 batteries come with it, that would indicate high use I'd guess. :-)

thanks again for the help.
Brad
3d4ever is offline  
post #27 of 35 Old 03-18-2019, 10:15 PM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I’ve owned all five Sony consumer 3D cameras.

I’d pick up a Sony DEV-50. Better sensor, wider I/A, overall night and day better camera than the TD10/20/30 (I owned all 3, plus DEv-3 which is a TD10 and the DEV50)

-> No longer looking for Hi-Vision LDs <-

(I buried that format finally)

www.ispeedonthe405.com
Jet-X is offline  
post #28 of 35 Old 03-18-2019, 11:31 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post
I’ve owned all five Sony consumer 3D cameras.

I’d pick up a Sony DEV-50. Better sensor, wider I/A, overall night and day better camera than the TD10/20/30 (I owned all 3, plus DEv-3 which is a TD10 and the DEV50)
Did not not of this model. Interesting, I will look into them. Thanks.
3d4ever is offline  
post #29 of 35 Old 03-19-2019, 06:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,352
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1033 Post(s)
Liked: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet-X View Post
I’ve owned all five Sony consumer 3D cameras.

I’d pick up a Sony DEV-50. Better sensor, wider I/A, overall night and day better camera than the TD10/20/30 (I owned all 3, plus DEv-3 which is a TD10 and the DEV50)
@Jet-X , do you have any examples of the DEV50? Would be interesting to see what you are seeing. Doesn't the magnification get in the way of a normal 3D shot?
3DBob is offline  
post #30 of 35 Old 03-19-2019, 07:59 AM
Preditor
 
Jet-X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,496
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
@Jet-X , do you have any examples of the DEV50? Would be interesting to see what you are seeing. Doesn't the magnification get in the way of a normal 3D shot?
I’d have to dig some up - but no the magnification doesn’t get in the way as I used it generally wide open. However, even a video (casual) i shot at the Miramar Air Show with it, zoomed all the way in the 3D was still damn good, 10x better than the TD series which, the more you zoom, the flatter the image. I also did not use digital zoom.

But it wasn’t just the 3D with the wider distance between the lenses, but the quality of the CMOS chip and the processing the camera was doing. The quality looked like my 1” sensor cameras. The image, 3D or 2D (whether converted or shot that way) was damn good. Selling off my 3D cameras was hard, but letting that one go, I still have regrets.

And if you want to make it more interesting, I also was using a Sony HMZ-TW3 3D headset with it to frame shots, etc. a bit cumbersome, but easier to see if I’m getting all the parallax, etc. the built in screens on the TD cameras I found ineffective, especially outdoors.

-> No longer looking for Hi-Vision LDs <-

(I buried that format finally)

www.ispeedonthe405.com
Jet-X is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 3D Source Components

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off