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post #1 of 31 Old 01-15-2015, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Two HDMI sources to full res 3D signal?

Is there a converter box out there that would take two HDMI input sources and then push a 3D signal to a single HDMI output? (so Input 1 would output to "left eye" and Input 2 would output "right eye") Prefer reasonable price of course... hopefully under $200.


What I have and want to do:
LG 55UB8500 passive 3D 4K TV... "dual play" 3D glasses...


Instead of using one game console to play "split screen" dual play (which halves the resolution, stretches the images and not all games support split screening)... I'd like to hookup two game consoles through the converter box and output full resolution "left" and "right" (3D signal) images.


Audio is not an issue thanks to headsets.


Of course I could also use this to play a game on one "3D" channel and let my wife watch TV or a movie on the secondary "3D" channel.


I've tried several internet searches and I'm not the only one asking for this, but many threads were several years old. Hoping something new has been released.


Thanks for any input or ideas.




EDIT.. here's an example... only I want to do the reverse... I want to use two consoles to output to a single TV.

TK

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post #2 of 31 Old 01-15-2015, 06:38 AM
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I don't think this is possible. To begin with, both the console and the game would need to support this feature, since both consoles would need to communicate with each other in order to output a synchronized, 3D video feed. So before even researching external devices, you would need to check what games would be capable of supporting such a function (my guess, zero). I would imagine this process would also introduce quite a bit of lag.
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post #3 of 31 Old 01-15-2015, 09:12 AM
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I do not know any consumer harware that does this. And I guess professional hardware capable of inputting two simultaneous streams into one would probably be based on HD-SDI inputs (to plug professional cameras).

I believe I have seen some computer cards from blackmagicdesign or aver media that should be able to gather two hdmi inputs into a computer. You'd then have to find the right software to assemble the pictures into a video stream. But that's complicated and waaaay above your specified budget.
And they also have an no-HDCP restriction (can't watch a BluRay through it for example, some TV programs would also be blocked).

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 02:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input...


I do fail to understand why each stream would need to be in sync though. I'm not trying to make a 3D image.... only push two 2D images with one going to a "left" set of glasses and another going to a "right" set of glasses. Nothing would need to be sync'd.


I do agree with you though IF I was trying to create a truly 3D image using two consoles then yes... they'd need to communicate and sync... but that is NOT what I'm trying to do. I want to display console #1 strictly to the "left eye channel" and console #2 strictly to the "right eye channel"... in glorious 2D (two dee).


All that really needs to happen is for the device to tell the TV that "this is a 3D signal"... and push Xbox1 to the left field and Xbox2 to the right field.


We already have cheap HDMI splitters that will take one image and split it... technically we're just doing the same in reverse.... only this time we need to pass through a 3D converter. The TV doesn't care if the signal is "True 3D"... it just cares that the "left eye channel" is getting an image and the "right eye channel" is getting another image. You can display any image you want in each channel. I could display a tractor to the right eye and a train to the left... using dual play glasses I could then either only see the tractor or switch pairs and only see the train with both are being displayed.


Of course I wouldn't need a converter if the TV would simply allow me to use HDMI port 1 and 2 and display them (kinda like picture in picture) to each the "left" and "right" fields.

TK

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post #5 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 03:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's another example...
http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-3D-Comp.../dp/B008L2QNNW

List price is $100, but is "on sale" for $20.


This little box will take a 2D image and convert it to 3D.... to me this is far more complicated and requires image processing in the box to do this.


All I want a little box to do is "pass-through" of two separate 2D HDMI sources....so pass through xbox1 to the "left field" and pass through xbox2 to the right field.... no image processing needed. All the little box as to say to the TV is "this is a 3D signal" and "combine" or "merge" the two separate HDMI inputs to one "3D HDMI" output signal.




To me it's kinda crazy no one has created a cheap little box that can do this for a consumer... but they'll put the time and effort into making "fake 3d" images out of 2D images. hmm.

TK
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 12:36 PM
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The cheapest thing I could find was $1,670.

That would take two HDMI inputs and let you put them side by side so that you could then tell your TV that you had side-by-side 3D (if it's like my Sony TV).

I assume the idea is that you wear glasses that are for the left-side 3D only and your wife wears glasses for right-side 3D only
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post #11 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 12:39 PM
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknomedic View Post
Thanks for the input...


I do fail to understand why each stream would need to be in sync though. I'm not trying to make a 3D image.... only push two 2D images with one going to a "left" set of glasses and another going to a "right" set of glasses. Nothing would need to be sync'd.


I do agree with you though IF I was trying to create a truly 3D image using two consoles then yes... they'd need to communicate and sync... but that is NOT what I'm trying to do. I want to display console #1 strictly to the "left eye channel" and console #2 strictly to the "right eye channel"... in glorious 2D (two dee).

All that really needs to happen is for the device to tell the TV that "this is a 3D signal"... and push Xbox1 to the left field and Xbox2 to the right field.


We already have cheap HDMI splitters that will take one image and split it... technically we're just doing the same in reverse.... only this time we need to pass through a 3D converter. The TV doesn't care if the signal is "True 3D"... it just cares that the "left eye channel" is getting an image and the "right eye channel" is getting another image. You can display any image you want in each channel. I could display a tractor to the right eye and a train to the left... using dual play glasses I could then either only see the tractor or switch pairs and only see the train with both are being displayed.


Of course I wouldn't need a converter if the TV would simply allow me to use HDMI port 1 and 2 and display them (kinda like picture in picture) to each the "left" and "right" fields.

Stop for a moment and reflect on what you are asking to have done. By sending two different full-screen 2D images simultaneously and having the display alternate them, you are doing EXACTLY what framepacked 3D Blu-Rays do. To the set, it is a 3D image based on how it has to be processed and displayed alternating between left eye and right eye views. Alternating views mean there has to be sync with the glasses. If you want to show more than one image simultaneously without syncing them you have to use picture-in-picture or picture-on-picture.

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post #13 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post
Stop for a moment and reflect on what you are asking to have done. By sending two different full-screen 2D images simultaneously and having the display alternate them, you are doing EXACTLY what framepacked 3D Blu-Rays do. To the set, it is a 3D image based on how it has to be processed and displayed alternating between left eye and right eye views. Alternating views mean there has to be sync with the glasses. If you want to show more than one image simultaneously without syncing them you have to use picture-in-picture or picture-on-picture.

They don't need to sync with the glasses with passive 3D. Just tossing that out there for your consideration.


Also... Unless I'm misunderstanding something about 3D. Even in the case of active 3D it wouldn't matter. What you need is the TV and Glasses to sync up, not the images. The TV doesn't care what's being displayed per eye channel. The TV is still displaying a 2D image for each eye channel. For active the TV alternates in sync with the glasses between the two 2D eye channels... in passive, the TV is displaying both channels at the same time and it's the polarization direction of each lens that determines what channel your eye sees.


IF you want to create a real 3D image... then yes, you'd need the images to be in sync so that you don't get odd cross talk, but you're still displaying two 2D images (one for each eye).. however the image your displaying per "eye channel" can truly be anything... as long as you don't care that it won't be 3D and would look horrible... UNLESS you're using glasses that only show the same channel for each eye.... such as dual play glasses.


In my case I don't want a 3D image. I want to display different sources to each "eye channel".

TK

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cunnin61 View Post
The cheapest thing I could find was $1,670.

That would take two HDMI inputs and let you put them side by side so that you could then tell your TV that you had side-by-side 3D (if it's like my Sony TV).

I assume the idea is that you wear glasses that are for the left-side 3D only and your wife wears glasses for right-side 3D only
Similar prices to what I've been seeing... and yes you are 100% correct... "dual play" passive glasses. "Player 1" glasses have "double right" or "double left" lenses... not the standard "right and left" pair.

TK
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-20-2015, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you BTW... I loved how you hit the post mark so you could link, ha.


Technically I can already do two player split screen and my TV will "stretch" those images and do what I want.


My goal though is FULL resolution, no stretching 2 player or shared TV and gaming at full res and full screen. (also, some games don't support split screening which invokes needing a double input source. Sad to say I'm not going to pay $1700 for professional converter box when a cheap consumer level dual HDMI pass through box would work... if someone made them, ha.


I may need to get into contact my some electrical designers and see if they could hobble some little box together.

TK
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-22-2015, 11:07 AM
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What you ask cannot be done with a simple passthrough or splitterbox because the 3D output stream contains twice the amount of pixels than each individual 2D input stream : the signal frequency will be different, so processing is required.

The 3D hdmi stream is called "frame packing", it does not contain simply 2 2D Left/Right streams in parallell, the pictures are synchronized and assembled together in a precise way.
The box will have to read both input streams, store them to resynchronize them, create a new combined picture and then create the new output stream.

It's not very complicated, it could have been done since the very beginning of hdmi1.4, but there is just so little demand for this feature that nobody cared to build one.

There is a more practical issue you may encounter : crosstalk.
I do not know about your TV, but since your pictures will be completely different, any crosstalk will be painfully obvious and you will be able to see the other player's picture bleeding through.
Did you do a crosstalk test first ? (activate side by side 3D mode on any random 2D content, see if the picture bleeds between the eyes)

Also, since you want to keep full resolution, you'd better have a look at your TV 3D input capabilities, hdmi1.4a only mandates 1080p24Hz full resolution, anything above is entirely optionnal (i.e. no TV manufacturer bothers to make the effort).
If you want to play games, you may get stuck at 720p.

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post #17 of 31 Old 01-22-2015, 11:49 AM
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Okay, you guys aren't understanding this scenario at all. I want to do the exact same thing as the OP.

On a passive 4K 3DTV, every other ROW is for the left or right eye. This leads to a resolution of 3840x1080 per eye (since only the rows are halved).

So what we want to do is take two separate 1920x1080 sources and have a box process them into a single 3840x2160 signal, with each alternating row being the opposite source (since this will align with the passive 3D filter).

This output format is possible using PC software (like Stereoscopic 3D player). With this system, the TV is only RECEIVING a 3840x2160 signal at whatever refresh rate the devices are (30Hz or 60Hz). Everything is passive to the TV, and it doesn't engage any 3D modes or processing. No frame-packing or extra Hz created.
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-22-2015, 12:39 PM
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It still requires processing in order to obtain the 3840x2160 picture, but this time you are not looking for a standardized output format, you are aiming for a custom picture specifically tailored for your TV. That would be an even smaller market, less reasons for any manufacturer to make that box. Or if you look at it the other way, if one manufacturer were to make that box, it would be in very small quantity, thus expensive.

Yes a computer can do this, you just need to buy the computer, make sure the motherboard has enough PCI-express slots to handle the two hdmi input capture cards.
Find and install the right software that is able to capture the two streams with different clocks simultaneously and process them, and configure everything properly with pixel accuracy. And finally turn off all your TV image quality improvements to make sure it does not accidentally mixes the lines together. (because the TV isn't aware it's displaying 3D content).
But it's possible.

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post #19 of 31 Old 01-27-2015, 02:09 PM
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Basically what you want is a live full resolution "Dual Play" converter type deal...

I have never seen anything like this but it does sound like it would be a great way to share useage of your TV.

Didn't some TVs come out with basically this functionality built in?

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post #20 of 31 Old 01-30-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post
Basically what you want is a live full resolution "Dual Play" converter type deal...

I have never seen anything like this but it does sound like it would be a great way to share useage of your TV.

Didn't some TVs come out with basically this functionality built in?
Sony SimulView is built in to the TV and PS3. In this mode, 1 PS3 outputs the player 1 and player 2 streams as a TNB 3D format (from what I've read online). Then the glasses only view one eye's stream.

With the 4K passive TV's if you feel the TV a 4K signal with every other row having the image for the other eye, you can use the SimulView passive glasses to get a better than 1080p image @ 2D.
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-31-2015, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post
With the 4K passive TV's if you feel the TV a 4K signal with every other row having the image for the other eye, you can use the SimulView passive glasses to get a better than 1080p image @ 2D.
Yes that's the idea.
However you'd need a "better than 1080p" source to obtain a "better than 1080p" final image.

Still possible but that would mean you would capture a resolution higher than 1080p at the source. The only thing standardized you'd get any hope of finding would be capturing 4K.
Definitely expect a sky-rocketing price for such a conversion box.

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post #22 of 31 Old 03-08-2015, 08:07 PM
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I want to do something similar but with a PC.

I have used split screen coop and the LG's built in side/side "dual play" mode. It works, but everything is stretched out. Afaik only one game ever published support LG's dual play. And what it does is squish the image for each player into the half screen side by side, so that, when the LG takes the side by side and stretches it back out for 3D, the aspect of the original image is maintained.

So playing coop on dual monitors, but then combining left/right into 3D. Obviously every other frame from each source would have to get dropped, thus halving the refresh rate. It would be worth it.

Unfortunately the market for 3D is very niche, so these things probably won't be happening. nVidia could add this kind of thing to their drivers for devs to tap into. Would be nice.

I was going to try tricking a 3D game into rendering at double the rez for split screen then forcing the video drivers to squish it. Who knows, I might get that to work. So the game would output 2560x720 and then have the drivers underscan the width by half, so I get the squished 1280x720 signal. Oh wait, that probably won't work since the nVidia card wants the rez to be 1280x720 up front. Hmmm....
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post #23 of 31 Old 03-15-2015, 10:08 PM
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There's something else I haven't seen mentioned here yet - And if it HAS been mentioned and I missed it, please excuse me.

The images for each eye are different, not just shifted over a few inches either, but angularly different too. Granted, not by much, but enough to make a difference in the 3D functioning, that's for sure. So feeding 2 hdmi sources can't work cuz both the images would be identical.
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post #24 of 31 Old 03-16-2015, 06:01 PM
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It hasn't been mentionned because the goal of this thread is not to obtain stereoscopic 3D content.
It's about hacking around the 3D feature of TVs in order to allow two users to watch a different 2D picture in full screen on the same TV without interfereing with one another.

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Kicking a dead thread here I know.... but given that Halo 5 is not going to have a splitscreen option this is a concept that needs to be addressed.

For the record Samsung had a TV with this exact feature in 2013... but it looks like the concept was abandoned
Google samsung dual-view

This is not an issue that is all that complicated or demanding... what it boils down to is we need a device that will "interlace" 2 hdmi signals and out put them out to a single feed with the color shift for passive 3d glasses.

This is not super complicated nor does it tax hardware resources very much... video scalars and matrix devices and even tvs with split screen already do the same thing they just display the lines as 11111111 00000000 instead of 10101010101010

the "Skreens" device has the hardware to do this it would just need a slight software addition to create and interlace mode ... of course that device didn't meet its kickstarter goal so who know if it even still exists

So.... has anyone found a work around to do this? Is there maybe a hardware 3d interlace device for video editing?

The Matrox MC-100 only supports 1080... but If I have read the specs right is allows for 2 input over/underlaying for 3d... the issue.... its sdi to hdmi so one would first have to convert HDMI- SDI then back... which might create lag....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRush View Post
Kicking a dead thread here I know.... but given that Halo 5 is not going to have a splitscreen option this is a concept that needs to be addressed.

For the record Samsung had a TV with this exact feature in 2013... but it looks like the concept was abandoned
Google samsung dual-view

This is not an issue that is all that complicated or demanding... what it boils down to is we need a device that will "interlace" 2 hdmi signals and out put them out to a single feed with the color shift for passive 3d glasses.

This is not super complicated nor does it tax hardware resources very much... video scalars and matrix devices and even tvs with split screen already do the same thing they just display the lines as 11111111 00000000 instead of 10101010101010

the "Skreens" device has the hardware to do this it would just need a slight software addition to create and interlace mode ... of course that device didn't meet its kickstarter goal so who know if it even still exists

So.... has anyone found a work around to do this? Is there maybe a hardware 3d interlace device for video editing?

The Matrox MC-100 only supports 1080... but If I have read the specs right is allows for 2 input over/underlaying for 3d... the issue.... its sdi to hdmi so one would first have to convert HDMI- SDI then back... which might create lag....
NRush: I am looking for something similiar. I have two independent HDMI or DVI video streams comming from two different video sources and I want something to join the signals into a top/down 3D signal that can be played on a 3D TV (passive stereo). Have you find any hardware to do such think with no big latency? Price is not an issue in this case...
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post #27 of 31 Old 09-22-2015, 12:41 AM
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Hi,maybe the following setup would work: Connect an HDMI to SDI-HD converter toeach console (e.g. google "AJA H5").Then, connect one SDI-HD output from each converter to the input of an SDI toHDMI 3D converter (e.g. google "AJA HI5-3D").Then connect the 3D HDMI output of that converter to the 3D TV and use the dualplay glasses to see the image of one console only. Does that make sense? Don'tknow if that would create additional latency, however.
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I'm trying to find a solution to this same problem. Has anyone figured this out or tried Jorg's idea above?
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ok, its 2017 and after having the same question as the OP and finding this thread, I researched more based on user Teknomedic's earlier reply and believe I've found something that fits the bill and budget. It seems to do what we want, althou not full 1080P res with a 3d signal per eye, but a proper SBS signal which is what the Dual Play asks for. From the description I still have one question on how the audio source selection is handled in split-screen mode and hopefully the seller can answer it on their page. My real question to anyone on here with dual play experience is how's the cross talk? I haven't pull the trigger yet cause I'm not sure if I'm ready to sink $80 for something that may not be very usable. I can see how dual play is feasible for most games since the stuff each player sees are similar (HUDs, backgrounds, race tracks, etc..) but if I would share the screen watching two separate movie/TV shows, I worry that the crosstalk would be too annoying to bare.. maybe in dark scenes? Any feedback would be appreciated.

sorry, the forum wont let me post the link cause I'm new, but you can go to eBay and search for "HDMI2 Dual Screen HDMI splitter screen processor PIP function PIP 2"
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post #30 of 31 Old 01-30-2017, 01:36 PM
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quick follow-up to my previous post, apparently this looks like a newer version of the PureLink HDS-21RS (you can google the specs there is a manual online and it retails for $200). this version has a mini USB instead of a RS232 serial port for PC controls. Anyways, I confirmed with PureLink's tech support that audio will follow input 1 during the split screen mode, so there is that..
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