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Morgus1 02-01-2018 09:54 AM

My 3D Project and Equipment... any thoughts?
Hi - I'm new here but plan on frequenting as I work on this phase of a lifelong project that is getting to the stage of more advanced audio visuals..

I'm hoping for some critique on my tentative plan, althogh some equipment choices are already set..

So I have been spending the past 3 years and thousands of hours buiding a super detailed 3D Model/ Environment in ZBrush/ 3D Studio Max with the plans to output educational pre scripted 3D stereoscopic videos to be shown to ENT doctors, family doctors, Nurse practicioners, and online... patients.. to educate multiple Ear Nose and Throat topics ranging from advanced Sinus surgical techniques (my specialty) all the way to more simple things like how to correctly use a Q tip.. There are a bunch of such 3D anatomy models but mine is much more detailed and could never be rendered or used in real time like most of them are tailored to... all VRay rendering and hyper realistic effect .. animated and narrated tours and demonstrations...

Anyway.. to show this at meetings and at lectures I have accrued the following.

1) One of the last Airflex5d available AF5D-30 units that lets me input full HD HDMI 3D formats ( 3840*1080 input and 2025*1920) and it splits it to 2x 1080p streams, at 24 fps .. it also does full corner registration and keystoning to speed calibration of 2 HD projectors.. the other unit that can do this is called Geobox, and cost more but is still in production..

2) 2x Optoma HD142X 1080p 3000 Lumens DLP projectors... with the appropriate circular polarizers and lenticular screen

3) Hoping I can encode the videos with Adobe Premier Pro in H.264 at one or the other Full HD frame pack formats, and store on a USB drive of some sort and play through a Roku Ultra... that part I have a long way to go being sure how that works out.. Im open to other media players, but hope not to have to bring a computer with me.

4) And to view as I go with my workstation at the office, I have a super cool LG Electronics OLED55E6P Flat 55-Inch 4K Ultra HD 2016 model that is one of the last passive 3D TVs... I love it..

So.. any thoughts escpecially about rendering format, encoding format, and delivery device for this plan?

Thanks guys, I hope to show off some content soon...

tomtastic 02-01-2018 02:21 PM

Frame packing output is limited, mainly to Blu ray disc. Vegas Pro is the only NLE that I know of with the official MVC disc encoder. Power Director has a similar MVC Blu ray encoder but does not accept dual file inputs, you would need to have a full resolution file first like side by side full or top bottom full to input into PD. Power Director, Edius and VP all have MVC file outputs (non Blu ray disc) but you're limited to basically PC for playing the files back with app like Power DVD. Not sure on Premiere, it does have 3D support.

So you could encode to Blu ray disc and just bring a 3D Blu ray player along or use digital output and use a PC or a media player box like a KD Links. Something I would look at first is your resolution needs. So Blu ray is limited to 1080p24 for highest resolution and projectors won't play higher than 1080p for 3D as well. Your LG screen will accept 3D resolutions up to 4096x2160 in 3D in either side by side or top/bottom. For 16x9 you would get 3840x1080p per eye resolution which is half 4K but looks very much 4K, depending on what your project is set to. And yes, you could just store on USB stick and input directly into TV for file playback. I've also been using a Playstation 4 Pro which has 4K output and it handles my 4K3D top/bottom files very well.

And I have to mention it, because this is something I think would be great for a demonstration of 3D on the go: glasses-free 3D displays. There are two companies right now with glasses-free screens Rembrandt and Izon, models up to 65". I think if you had something set up in a lobby the screen is 3D without having to hand out glasses. I haven't seen these in person yet but sounds very promising. Though I would hold off yet another company, Stream TV has announced a glasses-free 8K screen later this year, no idea on price yet.

Morgus1 02-01-2018 04:52 PM

Thanks for the thoughts Tom. I had not considered just making a Blu-ray and bringing a portable player. That sounds easy as it should all be presets in Premier and the stereoscopic plugin I’m planning to use. And the Airflex5D box takes blue ray 3d output in full uncompressed resolution, they say.
So I’m new to all the codecs and formats but I gather you can encode Blu-ray as either full frame side by side or full frame over under or half frame side by side or half frame over under. The dual projector Airflex5D thing accepts either at 24 FPS, but is there any reason to choose one over the other. Thanks

tomtastic 02-01-2018 05:29 PM

Frame packing is only way to get full resolution per eye (1920x1080) on Blu ray. So with disc, frame packing would give you highest resolution, side by side full isn't an option on blu ray, Power Director has side by side half option but you might as well do the full resolution.

For top/bottom full or side by side full you would need just a digital output file and play back via PC or media box, usb stick etc. I'm not familiar with Premiere for 3D, haven't used it. Check to see if there's full top/bottom output. There's also Vegas Pro but with the cost on that NLE you might as well do all your work in there for pairing, editing and output. The disc output does not have menu screen though for 3D, unless you take project into DVD architect and then you can create 2D menu. Power Director has menu screen option and in 3D but it doesn't accept dual file 3D files, you have to import as one file with full resolution first, so you need a more advanced NLE to create the full resolution files.

Morgus1 02-01-2018 06:06 PM

So frame packing is different than full over under? Is the difference the 45 pixel separator or is the difference related to the encoding? The premier plugin lists the following outputs, so it sounds comprehensive
* Left/Right
* 50 Percent Side-by-Side
* Full Frame Side-by-Side
* 50 Percent Stacked
* 100 Percent Stacked
* Line Interlace
* Greyscale
* Alternative Anaglyph
* Work with Stereo Pairs or Multiplexed file
* Difference Map
* Onion Skin (50-50)
* Anaglyph (Red/Cyan)
* Swap Left and Right
* Start Interlace on Odd
* Frame Offset to Sync

tomtastic 02-01-2018 08:15 PM

Frame packing is similar to over/under but the encoding is different, only the layout of the frames are similar. Yes, there is also the 45 pixels active blanking which isn't used in over/under format. The official Blu ray 3D format uses MVC encoding and there's basically the left view and a 50 percent reduced right (dependent view). The dependent view is compressed and saves space by using information from the left. That's only going to be found in Vegas Pro's Blu ray 3D output.

Power Director uses an unofficial MVC encoder, it is similar but it doesn't use the dependent right view, it's basically both left/right streams reduced for a combined 26 mbps file frame packing signal in full resolution. And these discs are recognized fine by blu ray 3D players even though they're not official Blu ray 3D discs.

Both of those are completely different than an over/under file from your NLE. The output would be 1920x2160 for a top/bottom full or in Premiere the 100 Percent Stacked option, no active blanking pixels. Side by side full would be 3840x1080. But you can only use those formats played back from your rendered file output, not burned to disc.

If it was me, if you wanted to burn to disc, I would just pick up PD as it's cheaper than VP and if you're already using Premiere and it looks like it has all the important outputs for 3D just use that for your main NLE. You could use top/bottom full from Premiere and import to PD to burn to disc. From Premiere you would just use the top/bottom full file if you want to play back from USB stick or a stand alone media player.

I'm not familiar with that dual projector deal. You may want to test formats first, side by side full and top/bottom to see if they are recognized first. If you're output is 1080p and using a full resolution 3D format you may wish to expand the frame to 16x9 which can be done easily in mkvmerge, a free app. Otherwise you'll have to expand it with your display or media player each time the file is played. If you don't expand full resolution 3D files they will not display properly on a 16x9 screen.

Morgus1 02-02-2018 04:51 AM

Thank you, that is very helpful helpful. And yes, the next step is experiment to see what works best, but that gives me a good starting point.

BlackShark 02-04-2018 01:48 AM

I have a dual-projector setup with a VNS Geobox 501 (looks identical to the airflex unit, I guess Airflex is just a rebranded and imported Geobox).
It does convert full resolution frame-packing from a bluray player to dual-hdmi for dual-projectors systems.
However, for personal content it is easier to use side by side video. It's just that the tools are better. And full resolution SBS is achievable at any refresh rate with little effort, but that's using a computer for playback.

You don't need a very powerful machine, a laptop is enough but DisplayPort or Dual-link DVI output is required. (since there are no hdmi2.0 3D demultiplexers currently on the market)
I just output a 3840x1080 60Hz desktop to the Geobox/airflex unit, and play regular H264 videos in 3840x1080 full-resolution SBS, any Hz, using any regular 2D video player.
No powerDVD, no complicated BluRay 3D format, no hdmi HDCP compliance nightmare.

My preferred way of working is with SBS (full resolution, or half depending on the usage). Because it's simple, very reliable, and almost all stereoscopic players know how to convert it to any format your display would need, like the native horizontal interlaced format of your LG passive 3DTV. (pay players like 3dtv.at stereoscopic player, or even free players like sview have it)
I do not recommend using frame sequential transmission (it works but it's not plug and play, and there is often a lot of fiddling around to initialize it, I only use it when I do not have any other choice : for Nvidia 3D Vision games).

Since you want to use stand-alone players, then before you do anything : ALWAYS MAKE A HALF-SBS COPY OF YOUR FINAL VIDEO, for compatibility's sake.
The downside of stand-alone players is they they are designed for standardized file formats and will usually cause issues if you try to force something with an unusual resolution (or downright refuse to play the files) I do not know about the Roku streaming units, as I am not familiar with them.
Half-SBS will always work, on any stand-alone player (even a 2D unit) or laptop with standard 2D hdmi output, or even streamed from a cell phone to a streaming receiver over wifi (chromecast for example).
It will work on any 3D display (TV, active projector, or Geobox/Aiflex system), provided you use the display's remote controller to manually turn on the 3D mode.

Note : The stand alone unit I have is a Sony BluRay 3D player BDP-S4500 / S5500, with usb-stick and network DLNA capability, it's connected to the Geobox/Airflex using hdmi1.4.
If I use half-sbs files with the proper 3D tags flagged (mp4 or mkv), it will detect the 3D flag and automatically switch to 3D mode (hdmi 1.4a frame-packing output with proper up-scaling, and working multi-language and subtitles).
Mkv files are particularely easy to work with, use mkvtoolnix (previously called mkvmerge gui) to easily set up the flags up. (can convert mp4 files to mkv, or modify existing mkv files to add the stereoscopic flags).
(by default, the mkvtoolnix will rename 3D mkv files with a .mk3d extension, just change them back to .mkv extension so that video players can detect these files normally)

It is possible that some 4K players might be able to play and output full-sbs 3840x1080 files, but I have not tested any, and do not intend to try one any time soon. I would probably require significant amounts of tweaking to force it to output such an unconventional resoluiton.
Stand alone players are usually designed to output 1080p (FullHD) or 2160p (UltraHD), and nothing in-between.
If you want full resolution playback on stand alone players, then the BluRay 3D format is the only guaranteed way (the file format is called MVC, not frame packing, Frame packing is an hdmi transmission format only).

In order to keep the full resolution on a Bluray 3D player, the MVC encoders from professional NLE software and BluRay authoring is the easiest way to go. (with accessible graphical user interfaces). But they're expensive.
There is a free MVC encoder however is it quite complicated to use due to it's command line nature and it's very restrictive input types (uncompressed stream, some other application must decode the image first and feed it). It's called FRIM encoder.
It's actually Intel's accelerated encoder (quicksync), but Frim allow accessing it with the correct settings.
Be warned : the intel encoder has very poor quality/file-size ratio. You will need to use very high bitrates in order to keep a good video quality. Only use it if you must produce MVC and don't have access to anything else. (do not expect the famous 50% MVC file size improvement over regular H264 with this scheme, from my testing at equivalent file size, the free x264 2D encoder provides significantly better Full resolution side-by-side quality than Frim'sfull resolution MVC). Intel Quicksync encoder is designed to be fast, not high quality.

Some people have tried with some success to make files imitating the frame-packing format (2025*1920 with the 45 lines of blanking), and somehow forced some TVs to accept these inputs as 3D frame packing.
However I do not believe any stand alone player would be able to play these files (most probable file playback limitation), I believe these people used a PC and forced their graphics cards to output at this unconventional resolution. You can try these for experiments, but be warned that these files will not be compatible with regular 3D players (the 45 lines of blanking will interfere and players don't have the algorithms to remove them, 3D players don't expect them to be there)

BlackShark 02-04-2018 08:21 AM

When editing (premiere or your other editing tool), you can use the line interlace mode on the video preview in order to display a live 3D preview or your project on the passive 3DTV (it is the native panel format of this type of 3DTVs) use the swap eyes function if needed.
You'll need to make sure you disable all image enhancement features in the TV's menus in order for this trick to work (including the sharpening filter) because the TV does not know it's receiving a hybrid 2D/3D image, otherwise the TVs enhancement filters will destroy the 3D image and create a massive amount of crosstalk.

But do not render your video files in interlaced mode. The modern formats are not designed for interlaced recording anymore.
Always keep your video files either in separate left/right view pairs, or together in a single file (stacked horizontally : side by side , or stacked vertically : top/bottom).

Morgus1 02-05-2018 08:45 AM

Wow Black shark... that is extremely useful information... I appreciate you taking the time to help out.. Let me digest some of that, but I think that my idea to go without a laptop needs to be reconsidered... Once you get carts with 2 projectors, glasses, geoboxlikething, and lugging my lenticular screens to a presentation, adding a laptop is pretty simple...

So an HDMI output on most laptops doesn't quite work out, DVI needed or do I misunderstand? And Ill play with it but I wonder how you instruct the graphics card to output 3840x1080 , on my workstation, the Nvidia card lets you set up any custom resolution.... Ill figure that out Im sure... my son has an AlienWare laptop that he doesn't use with a higher end graphics card, but it has an HDMI out, Ill fiddle with that next..

Thanks so much

BlackShark 02-05-2018 12:41 PM

The limitation is due to the bandwidth for transmitting 3840x1080 pictures from the computer to the Geobox/Airflex demultiplexer unit.
hdmi 1.4 which is used for input in all the demultiplexer units i've seen so far isn't designed to carry 3840x1080. The bandwidth is barely enough for 3840x1080 24hz and i'm pretty sure you will run into problems if you try forcing such an input.
hdmi 2.0 does have enough bandwidth, but you'll have no demultiplexer unit capable of receiving the signal.

This is only required if you absolutely want full resolution side by side. (which is easy to use and extremely reliable)
If you're fine with hdmi frame packing limitations (1080p24 or 720p60), you can use hdmi 1.4a from a Bluray3D player... or a laptop (caution : special hardware and software required !)
If you're fine with just half-sbs, then you can use source you want, any software your want etc... (which is why it is extremely important to always have a copy of your video in this format, just in case...)

If you want to do 3840x1080 full resolution side by side, you need either :
  • DisplayPort
  • DVI Dual-link (dual link is important : it's the version of DVI which uses ALL the pins inside the DVI plug)
Hdmi is very common on laptops, DisplayPort also exists but is more rare.
The version on laptops is usually a mini-DisplayPort plug in order to fit in the small form factor of laptops. Mini-DisplayPort is exactly the same as regular DisplayPort, just in a smaller size and without the locking plug mechanism.

For setting up the resolution, there are multiple choices :
- the latest Geobox unit with the most recent firmware provides the 3840x1080 resolution automatically, you just need to select it in the graphics card control panel.
- you can use the graphics card's custom resolution tool, to test and add the extra resolution to the list of available resolutions (you'll need to do it every time you unplug the device)
- you can create a custom EDID override (it's a custom setting for Windows's display driver) which will be saved and reused automatically, this way your computer wil lautomatically use the resolution you want as soon as you plug the device (that's what I do with my Geobox 501)

Morgus1 02-05-2018 01:07 PM

So I for sure will be rendering out full frame left and right saved independently then will format them however best.... but Im sure Ill shoot for full frame for this.

Granted Im soon to experiment, waiting on my filters for the projectors and need more time to render out some test images from 3DS max's Vray plugin and stereoscopic cameras... and I just bought 100 Omega glasses and big filters as Ill be taking this on the road, and while I have a big lenticular screen, its a pain to lug.

Anyway, on the back of the Airflex it has 1 ports marked DVI/HDMI2 in and in the specs it says Video Input Ports: 1) 1x Analog D-Sub VGA up to 205 MHZ 2) 1x DVI input up to 165 MHz 3) 1x high speed HDMI to support FHD 3D signal - does that mean that the HDMI will support HDMI 2 bandwidth eventhough this unit came out before I think HDMI 2.0 was out? And can one use a HDMI 2.0 to DVI converter so that I can use an HDMI 2.0 output on a computer to go into the DVI on the Airflex? Im impatient as Ill work it out... but I thrilled to discuss with someone who has already worked it out..

BlackShark 02-05-2018 02:48 PM

I guess the "hdmi 2" label actually means input #2 .
Hdmi 2.0 is all about 4K and UHD signals, and it is labelled "2.0", never just "2".

From your description, the only input on your unit capable of receiving full resolution 1080p is the hdmi input, using hdmi1.4a signals.
Your source will need to output the hdmi1.4a frame packing format, meaning your source must be either a stand alone BluRay3D player (and MVC files), or a computer with the appropriate hardware and software combination. (in order to activate the spacial mode for outputting the special 3D hdmi format).
Side by side 3840x1080 may work through hdmi but is not guaranteed.

I just had a look at the equivalent VNS Geobox which would match this description, it's probably a rebranded G303.
Then the DVI input should be DVI Dual-link capable. If you can't get 3840x1080 through hdmi, then it should be possible through DVI-dual-link (provided your computer has it... it's quite rare on laptops)

Since you will be using Omega filters, then you can use any type of screen you want. You can even project directly on a white wall.
Beware of ambient light though... The omega system uses reflective filters, you will need to make sure the room is in absolute darkness in order to reduce reflections, or your audience will be annoyed by the reflection of their own eyes.

Morgus1 02-05-2018 03:19 PM

what about converter plugs/cables..... HDMI 2.0 out from computer to -> DVI dual link... they are available... would that possibly work ? Or the DisplayPort -> DVI converters... They are cheap enough and the ones on Amazon say 4K compatible....

And given how much time and money Ive spent on this and will... if I need to get a Geobox G-601 I sure will.... I see them on Alibaba for $1200

BlackShark 02-06-2018 01:33 AM

In theory, converters should work, provided they are actually converters.
The amazon page of signal converters is a mess of misinformation and false promises like no other.

There are two types of converters :
  • Adapters : also called PASSIVE converters, they are a simple plug to plug re-wiring, they are very cheap to make (5~10$), all cables with different ends are of this type. These rely on the computer's graphics card to detect the re-wiring and send the correct type of signal through the plug. They work great with desktop computers, they work more or less with some laptops (if the manufacturer did it's job properly), but they don't work with stand alone devices.
  • Converters : also called ACTIVE converters (to emphasize that there is a chip inside which changes the signal from one format to the other), these cost a little bit more (30~50$) because they actually do the work internally
And the amazon page happily mixes everything together in one giant mess. It takes a lot of time cross-checking the specs, the price, the user's reviews to know what you are buying.
Be also aware that these converters are one way only. (you cant reverse a DP->hdmi to do hdmi->DP).

Morgus1 02-06-2018 07:50 AM

OK, this thread is costing me but what Im ending up with is going to be fun :)

So Ive ordered the GeoBox 601... it has integrated display port and they still actively support it... got it for $850 from the manufacturer

And Im looking at this as a video server https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Generat...t+media+server

Since it says it does 4k video has a displayport output and can support dual screens, but it has Intel HD Graphics 520 as the graphics card and windows 10... I would suspect that could be customized to play whatever I want such as full frame side by side HD....

Does display port report back to the source to provide a list of supported resolutions like HDMI does?

BlackShark 02-06-2018 08:15 AM

Well you could go much cheaper with active glasses and a single DLP projector...
The passive route is indeed significantly more expensive, but there is no better 3D picture.

DisplayPort does report the list of all it's available resolutions. And just like the other outputs, you can override them.
I do not know if intel provides an easy to use resolution override menu in it's drivers or if you will have to use an EDID override.

In my case I ended up using one just to make it easier to use. By default my Geobox initalizes into 1024x768 (compatibility default resolution). And it has a super long list of available resolution I will never use.
I made a custom EDID just to get rid of all the unused resolution and have the device initialize automatically into 1920x1080 60Hz. (because that's the 2D resolution of my projectors)
My favourite feature is to have the default output as 1920x1080 for 2D content (the Geobox clones the same image on both projectors), and then have my 3D application be preset to use 3840x1080 full screen mode (to force the resolution change) and automatically be in the proper mode for 3D. Then when then 3D app is done, returning to the desktop automatically switches back to 1920x1080 for 2D usage.

The G601 with image warp will indeed make setup with high accuracy easier and will allow you to do 2D presentations and 3D showings on the same screen.
Without image warp, getting the images to line up is very difficult and would take a significant amount of time. 3D is fine, but 2D would be too blurry to be usable.

Do you still intend to use the Omega filters or do you want to do it polarized ?

Morgus1 02-06-2018 09:02 AM

For this project... I wanted the clearest picture possible and it seems Full Frame HD side by side is it for now even if it is technically possible from a PC with a fancy card to use 2x 4k projectors, , rendering 4k VRay images in Maxeven using a render farm service, takes more than 4x the time (and expense) of HD... In addition to animated CG images, some shots are stereo photography stills, or pans of anatomy dissections but with long pauses at a still point as the image is discussed. Active is annoying in such a scenario to me.. I bought a large Omega Filter set and 100 glasses yesterday.... :) I have to be able to give a lecture to a medical school class, and there is usually 150 kids per class and they usually have 50% attendance at a lecture. They usually have screens built in to the lecture rooms, so the Omega is going to spare me that hassle..

I'm a passive guy and there may be some situations where I will have big enough audiences that active is problematic... and I can afford more Glasses if needed...

The more I look, turns out there are plenty of very small form factor cases and motherboards out now that hold a full length graphics card, I'm obviously actively ciphering this out now, but with the Omega purchase, the Geobox 601, and Ill probably build a very small footprint PC to lug.. Im about set to start editing and testing content..

Thanks again

BlackShark 02-06-2018 02:11 PM

Here is a little alignment chart I am sure you will find very useful for lining up your projectors.

Originally Posted by BlackShark (Post 34806969)
Here are the features :
-white crosstalk test with 5% light increment from 0% to 50% grey.
-black crosstalk test with 5% light increment from 100% to 50% grey.
-Left/Right color calibration and comparison scales with 10% light increment from 0 to 100% grey and primary colour
-bigger primary and secondary color comparison (100% colour only) for easier calibration
-marked corners and alignment lines cross-crossing the pattern for main alignment
-alignment arrows pointing at each other only displayed by one eye : to fine-tune alignment
-moire check across the sides (the small scale makes it look grey, it's actually a succession of 1-pixel wide black and white lines), the final proof things are lined up if you see sharp lines... or reveals possible scaling issues if you see moire garbage.

Download : PNG FullSBS (3840x1080)
Download : MPO FullHD (thanks RBTO)

Morgus1 02-21-2018 05:35 AM

So I’ve about got this workstation set up and outputting to my LG Electronics OLED55E6P and to my dual projectors. The Geobox DisplayPort does report to my mini intel NUC computer 3840x1080 so that was a snap and they took my Airflex5D unit back in return, it didn’t have a displayport so I would be dealing with adapters I guess.

Is there any way to have the LG Electronics OLED55E6P accept 3840x1080 full SBS ? I have the premier pro outputting to it and the 50% SBS works fine and has a great stereoscopic picture but my main final NLE output will be 3840x1080.

tomtastic 02-21-2018 06:12 AM


Originally Posted by Morgus1 (Post 55730078)
Is there any way to have the LG Electronics OLED55E6P accept 3840x1080 full SBS ? I have the premier pro outputting to it and the 50% SBS works fine and has a great stereoscopic picture but my main final NLE output will be 3840x1080.

It's really up to the player, because the TV will just display that in rectangular form because it's not 16:9. Most media players can change the AR so you can display it for the screen, but you'll have to enable that every time. You can run your file through mkvtoolnix and force 16:9, would be best way.

Morgus1 02-21-2018 09:12 AM


So its coming out of a high end Nvidia card, should be able to do whatever I want... Ill play around with it some... I don't guess it can damage the TV by outputting non standard resolutions...

tomtastic 02-21-2018 09:41 AM

No, won't damage anything, your TV can handle up to 4K in 3D resolution. I've used VLC player to send top/bottom UHD 3D files with 4K GPU from my Mac Pro. VLC player can adjust that resolution to display in full screen, just go into the video tab and change to 16:9, or like I said you can just remux the file in mkvmerge (mkvtoolnix) by expanding the 1080 to 2160 so it displays right, or use the 16:9 setting.

What will happen when you display 3840x1080 is it will be a horizontal rectangle with black bars on top/bottom which won't expand to full screen for 3D so you'll have to do one of the above I mentioned to get it to display right for 3D. Try displaying that resolution first, you'll see what I mean. I don't believe changing the tv's built in viewing options will work right either. One get's it close, I think the 16:9 or zoom mode but it's not the same as original, which is why I say it's up to the player. If you use VLC it has an option to expand the image correctly, but better option is to just expand the file itself so it displays without having to enable that every time.

In mkvmerge, import file, in second box (tracks, chapters) highlight the video portion of the file, click the format specific options tab, click display width/height and change 1080 to 2160. Start muxing, this will create a new file just use the new file it creates.

Morgus1 02-25-2018 07:16 AM

So I?m about to buy 2 cameras to build a couple of custom stereoscopic rigs. I found a used stereoscopic endoscope that usually engages on a davinci operative robot for $95. It was probably a 10k item but is obsolete and I?ll have to 3d print a mount system , and then attaching to operative microscopes is standard but usually just one eye at a time.

So my question: one option, expensive commercially available mods to genloc and add a cmount to 2 GoPro 6. The more palatable is a cmount mod for 2x Yi 4K sport cameras but no way to genloc them.

So how hard is it to manually synch 2 streams in an nle (premier pro with stereo plugin) ? Probably pretty short clips and can cut and resynch fairly often if needed.

Hoping that is doable.

tomtastic 02-25-2018 04:39 PM

You won't get genlock sync with Hero 6. The Hero 3 Plus Black edition cameras were the last models to officially support a sync cable. However, the Hero 4 also had a similar port connector and could be hacked with a modded cable and some programing. I just read about it other day, it's in the GoPro thread here but it's not official.

Genlock sync is really only going to matter if you have fast motion though. If you're dealing with slower motion you might be able to get away without it.

And all of the more advanced NLE's can handle dual streams for 3D pairing. It's not hard to line them up, but need a start/stop que, usually with audio is best and you can line them up by audio peaks. You will have to trim off whole frames at beginning and end of clips then combine as 3D. The hero 3 black's cable was a specific length which would likely not be the right length to attach to microscope, a 3rd party made an expansion cable.

Stereoscopic endoscope looks interesting, would make a nice macro 3D camera.

Morgus1 02-25-2018 05:26 PM


The C mount adapter for the Yi 4k is $99 per camera but you have to take it apart, I can do such things. The C mount for the 6 is much more, you have to buy the 6 already modified from them for $900 each https://www.back-bone.ca/shop/ ... And the Yi does have an opensource bios that people have modified to link the cameras for frame accurate simultaneous start, but not genlock. The 6 Genlock is expensive https://www.timecodesystems.com/syncbac-pro/

I couldn't believe I found that endoscope... Ill make it work... https://www.ebay.com/itm/263512192808

Thanks again.. I hope to share some interesting stereo media with you guys in the future..

tomtastic 02-25-2018 06:14 PM

I had heard they were releasing sync products for multi cam GoPro for VR, that sync bac might be it or another version. Didn't realize they had been released yet.

So the endoscope has small CMOS sensors with 640x480 resolution? So what is used for the connection at the other end to feed the signal out?

Morgus1 02-25-2018 09:00 PM

It hasnt come in yet but if it is like the modern ones on the davinci at my hospital, It is just the optics and has a video module that mounts to it that I didnt get and wouldnt want. The unit as pictured above can be sterilized and is sealed with that center fitting being for a standard fiber optic light source and the two ports are the end of the lens system, I think.
Did you read that that unit had electronics and a sensor?

tomtastic 02-26-2018 08:28 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Saw a couple others: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Intuiti....c100012.m1985


Saw this article on it, from 2003 so that's pretty impressive from that long ago. Some smaller ones 8.5mm now, that one appears to be 12mm.

Not sure if that's the same type, can you fit small cameras to the output or is it a signal feed?

could use some micro CMOS cameras.

I think this is the apparatus that attaches to output?:

Morgus1 02-26-2018 09:09 AM

It is dual feed, and it looks spaced enough I can use the Yi 4K without any type of periscope offset system.

cool, good find... no.... Ill figure out a way cooler video dual head given the small format of the new 4k cameras and 3d printing to create a snap on mount system... I just need to get the optics right, but there are plenty of options with C mount for attaching to endoscopes that have zoom and focus that I can use to start with. That diagram uses a 50 mm lens, most endoscopes need a 30 mm, a standard prebuilt 50 mm might be hard to come by but Ill figure that out... Ill keep yall up to date, this is going to be fun..

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