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post #1 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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SmoothVideo Project with 3D

As a prelude it was pretty easy getting 3D SBS/OU material to output 60fps on my Benq HT3050 ( or most other 3D displays that support it) using a strong PC, and supposedly the same can be done with 3D blu-ray and MK3D for 720p/60hz frame-packing content ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶f̶r̶a̶m̶e̶r̶a̶t̶e̶s̶ ̶s̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶4̶8̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶1̶2̶0̶

I am wondering if anyone has any experience using SVP on an HTPC with 3D content (mainly frame-packing blu-ray or mk3d)? For those who don't know, it is software that renders extra frames (ie frame interpolation) into just about any video when used in conjunction with many video players on a PC. It uses a bit of juice so you need a decent dedicated gpu and cpu.

I have spent the day trying to get SVP to work with either mk3d or 3D blu-ray. Actually the problem is that SVP does not work with my (and many others) 3D playing software PowerDVD, but it does work with mpc-be and mpc-hc. I can't get these formats to play in their native 3D formats with these programs, though. I went through several sets of instructions including http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4163 and https://www.avforums.com/threads/gui...madvr.2030649/. The videos either try and play in a messed up OU/SBS mode, play in 2D, or crashes the program on full-screen.

As said earlier, it worked easily on SBS and OU 3D content. It was pretty cool too. There was some visual artifacts here and there, but it really does work and FI in 3D is much nicer than in 2D imo. I may be able to get rid of some/most of the artifacts since there are so many options between the player, madvr and SVP. I just didn't get to them since I was trying to get the superior 3D formats working.

I've been eyeing up the Optoma uhd-51a/lv and trying to figure out if they have any FI in 3D mode since I've enjoyed it in the past. We can't get a concrete answer on that so I'm just assuming no. Then I figured if I can get FI working with my 3D content regardless of the projector/display, it opens up my options a bit more.

Mostly I wanted to start the discussion on this topic to see if anyone else is interested, and I could not find anything about it while searching here. Any questions I can drop my very limited knowledge on you as well!

Edit: I am also aware that I will likely not be able to view any frame-packing 3D above 24fps as that is the limit of my projector. I was just trying to figure out if I'd be able to use it on my next hypothetical projector that did support higher hz. Looking at specs of some newer 4k ones for example those uhd51's, maybe there are none that go above 24hz frame-packing 1080p 3D?

BenQ HT3050 (Previously BenQ W1070, Epson 8350, Mits HD1000u)
Elite 100" Spectrum Electric 16:9 Screen
Pioneer VSX-1131
SVS SBS-01/PB12-NSD 5.1.2 system
HTPC/Pimax5k+/XboxOneX

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post #2 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ryudoadema View Post
As a prelude it was pretty easy getting 3D SBS/OU material to output 60fps on my Benq HT3050 ( or most other 3D displays that support it) using a strong PC, and supposedly the same can be done with 3D blu-ray and MK3D for frame-packing content and other framerates such as 48 or 120.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience using SVP on an HTPC with 3D content (mainly frame-packing blu-ray or mk3d)? For those who don't know, it is software that renders extra frames (ie frame interpolation) into just about any video when used in conjunction with many video players on a PC. It uses a bit of juice so you need a decent dedicated gpu and nice cpu for full-res 3D at least.

I have spent the day trying to get SVP to work with either mk3d or 3D blu-ray. Actually the problem is that SVP does not work with my (and many others) 3D playing software PowerDVD, but it does work with mpc-be and mpc-hc. I can't get these formats to play in their native 3D formats with these programs, though. I went through several sets of instructions including http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4163 and https://www.avforums.com/threads/gui...madvr.2030649/. The videos either try and play in a messed up OU/SBS mode, play in 2D, or crashes the program on full-screen.

As said earlier, it worked easily on SBS and OU 3D content. It was pretty cool too. There was some visual artifacts here and there, but it really does work and FI in 3D is much nicer than in 2D imo. I may be able to get rid of some/most of the artifacts since there are so many options between the player, madvr and SVP. I just didn't get to them since I was trying to get the superior 3D formats working.

I've been eyeing up the Optoma uhd-51a/lv and trying to figure out if they have any FI in 3D mode since I've enjoyed it in the past. We can't get a concrete answer on that so I'm just assuming no. Then I figured if I can get FI working with my 3D content regardless of the projector/display, it opens up my options a bit more.

Mostly I wanted to start the discussion on this topic to see if anyone else is interested, and I could not find anything about it while searching here. Any questions I can drop my very limited knowledge on you as well!

Edit: I am also aware that I will likely not be able to view any frame-packing 3D above 24fps as that is the limit of my projector. I was just trying to figure out if I'd be able to use it on my next hypothetical projector that did support higher hz. Looking at specs of some newer 4k ones for example those uhd51's, maybe there are none that go above 24hz frame-packing 1080p 3D?
The Optoma 51alv, like most projectors that do 3D, will do 1280x720p 60fps frame packing as well as 1080p 24fps framepacking--since these two formats are the bluray 3D standard. Optoma has said in the past that the 51a/lv series does frame interpolation in 3D, but has recently stated it does not. That said, in 3D mode, frame interpolation is greyed out to low. I do think there is some minor interpolation, but nothing significant. All of my home-brew 3D bluray videos now, I've redone into 720x60p bluray, and they are just simply great! I don't see any degrading of the image, and since the image gets upscaled to 1080p resolution (because that is the resolution of the chip used), the picture blows me away. That said, I use a bluray player and not my computer, so the software you mention is a mute point for me.

See page 61 of your user manual for the 3050. It will do both 720x60p and 1080x24p frame-packing.
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
The Optoma 51alv, like most projectors that do 3D, will do 1280x720p 60fps frame packing as well as 1080p 24fps framepacking--since these two formats are the bluray 3D standard. Optoma has said in the past that the 51a/lv series does frame interpolation in 3D, but has recently stated it does not. That said, in 3D mode, frame interpolation is greyed out to low. I do think there is some minor interpolation, but nothing significant. All of my home-brew 3D bluray videos now, I've redone into 720x60p bluray, and they are just simply great! I don't see any degrading of the image, and since the image gets upscaled to 1080p resolution (because that is the resolution of the chip used), the picture blows me away. That said, I use a bluray player and not my computer, so the software you mention is a mute point for me.

See page 61 of your user manual for the 3050. It will do both 720x60p and 1080x24p frame-packing.
Thanks! I knew that my and most pjs are limited to 24hz frame-packing in 1080p. I was just hoping that since there are some cutting edge movies coming out with higher fps (like Billy Lynn) that maybe there were some pjs or other displays upcoming that could do more. I know some people enjoy FI with 3D and not many pjs do this, so this could be another option for those with a PC/HTPC.

I wish I could get the Blu-rays or mk3ds working with one of the said programs, then I could do the 720p/60hz without re-encoding to sbs- though I suppose the resolution would be about equal if I understand correctly. 1280x720 (preferred due to the balanced res) vs 960x1080.

BenQ HT3050 (Previously BenQ W1070, Epson 8350, Mits HD1000u)
Elite 100" Spectrum Electric 16:9 Screen
Pioneer VSX-1131
SVS SBS-01/PB12-NSD 5.1.2 system
HTPC/Pimax5k+/XboxOneX
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 05:15 PM
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720x60p doesn't half the resolution like SBS does. Remember, that it is also frame packed 1280x720 resolution, that is upscaled on an 1920x1080 chip. The human eye/brain also combines both eyes in 3D to double the apparent resolution, whereas in a 2D movie, each eye gets EXACTLY the same image and resolution. It's a 3d phenom, that mostly gets ignored.
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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720x60p doesn't half the resolution like SBS does. Remember, that it is also frame packed 1280x720 resolution, that is upscaled on an 1920x1080 chip. The human eye/brain also combines both eyes in 3D to double the apparent resolution, whereas in a 2D movie, each eye gets EXACTLY the same image and resolution. It's a 3d phenom, that mostly gets ignored.
So that's why quality 3d looks so much sharper than it's 2d equivalent. I always just assumed it was due to the layering and distinct separation. 720p frame-packed material should look nearly as sharp as flat 1080p then? In that case I have a reason to continue trying to get mk3d and blu-ray 3d working with MVP!

BenQ HT3050 (Previously BenQ W1070, Epson 8350, Mits HD1000u)
Elite 100" Spectrum Electric 16:9 Screen
Pioneer VSX-1131
SVS SBS-01/PB12-NSD 5.1.2 system
HTPC/Pimax5k+/XboxOneX
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-09-2019, 03:40 PM
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All of my home-brew 3D bluray videos now, I've redone into 720x60p bluray, and they are just simply great!
How did you convert to 720x60p bluray from 1080px24p?
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-10-2019, 07:22 AM
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How did you convert to 720x60p bluray from 1080px24p?
I do the initial rendering at 1080x30p in Edius and create a dual-stream 3D file, then create a 1280x720x60p bluray from that in Powerdirector. Or I can create a 1080px24p 3D bluray from Powerdirector, which I did in the past thinking I needed to do that to get the resolution I needed, but 24p causes a lot of jerky video (judder), especially when panning or objects moving. So 720x60p 3D bluray is much smoother, and I'm finding out just as sharp.
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post #8 of 20 Old 07-03-2019, 10:23 PM
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I do the initial rendering at 1080x30p in Edius and create a dual-stream 3D file, then create a 1280x720x60p bluray from that in Powerdirector. Or I can create a 1080px24p 3D bluray from Powerdirector, which I did in the past thinking I needed to do that to get the resolution I needed, but 24p causes a lot of jerky video (judder), especially when panning or objects moving. So 720x60p 3D bluray is much smoother, and I'm finding out just as sharp.
Does the final 1280x720x60p have interpolated frames from the 24p in 1080p?
Ideally I would like a 1280x720x24p so interpolation with SVP can be applied, although I don't know if (using MPC HC+madvr) that will jump into the projector's [email protected] 3D mode (maybe they have to be at 60Hz for that to happen). 3D playback is enabled in madvr.

Are there any samples available online of [email protected] in 3D frame packing?

BD3D2MK3D has an option to resize to 720p frame packing, with another option for 30/60fps. It gives a warning (5th picture attached).
Tried resizing to 720p with and without the 30/60fps option, the result was very jerky image. It did not go automatically into 3D 720p @60Hz FP. When selected manually (3D 720p 60Hz FP) and then played the file, it jumped into 2D 720p @60Hz.
Screenshots with Media Info attached: first one is without the 30/60fps option, 2nd one is with.

Also tried Format Factory with 720p, 23.976 fps, 16:9 ration (video is test file is shot in 16:9) for MKV output (no 3D MVK available). Video was not jerky but behaved as with the BD3D2MK3D converted files. Not sure it was a 3D file. Attached 3rd picture from MediaInfo.

The original sample in MediaInfo is the 4th attached picture.

In NVCP inverse telecine is enabled.
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post #9 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 07:42 AM
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@noob00224 The original video is 30p, so there is no 24p interpolation to 60p. Going from 30p to 60p is relatively smooth. The problem with 30p original video going to 24p to save the 1080p resolution is the judder you get from that interpolation.
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post #10 of 20 Old 07-08-2019, 12:27 PM
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@noob00224 The original video is 30p, so there is no 24p interpolation to 60p. Going from 30p to 60p is relatively smooth. The problem with 30p original video going to 24p to save the 1080p resolution is the judder you get from that interpolation.
So what is the best process to get an [email protected] frame packed blu ray to 720p frame packed (whatever resolution)?
If the frame rate is changed from 24p upward is there any interpolation done there?
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post #11 of 20 Old 07-15-2019, 09:56 PM
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I do the initial rendering at 1080x30p in Edius and create a dual-stream 3D file, then create a 1280x720x60p bluray from that in Powerdirector. Or I can create a 1080px24p 3D bluray from Powerdirector, which I did in the past thinking I needed to do that to get the resolution I needed, but 24p causes a lot of jerky video (judder), especially when panning or objects moving. So 720x60p 3D bluray is much smoother, and I'm finding out just as sharp.
Creating a BluRay in Powerdirector is not available in free mode.

In Edius I can't seem to export a 3D frame packed file. [email protected] is the desired format.
3D MVC MKV's cannot be imported.
Files from mounted ISO's can, and the stream file is selected.
When right clicking and selecting Set Stereoscopic there is nothing there.
Drag that file from the left to the right (underneath the 2 viewports).
Exporting it to either Blu ray disc or file does not seem to get the proper file.
In the Stream folder there are 2 files, and only one of them seems to get copied.

What settings should I be using?

The files for testing are the 1st and 5th from 3D Test Clips:
https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples#3D_Test_Clips
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post #12 of 20 Old 07-18-2019, 01:09 AM
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Creating a 3D Blu ray in Powerdirector only allows for [email protected] and [email protected], no [email protected]
Unless you know another way @3DBob, it does not seem possible to make a [email protected] MVK MVC or Blu Ray Disc.
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post #13 of 20 Old 07-18-2019, 09:45 AM
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Creating a 3D Blu ray in Powerdirector only allows for [email protected] and [email protected], no [email protected]
Unless you know another way @3DBob, it does not seem possible to make a [email protected] MVK MVC or Blu Ray Disc.
1080p/24 and 720p/60 are the two international standards for bluray 3D, that is why. Not sure why you want 720p/24, since it's lower resolution than 1080p/24?
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1080p/24 and 720p/60 are the two international standards for bluray 3D, that is why. Not sure why you want 720p/24, since it's lower resolution than 1080p/24?
The 3D Frame Packing at [email protected] video would have been interpolated to 60Hz, achieving 3D Frame Packing in [email protected]
Right now the only way to achieve 3D @60Hz is via SBS/TAB.

Not sure what re encoding a 3D FP [email protected] Blu ray to [email protected] would have done with regards to the frames, I don't think any interpolation is taking place.
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Edius cannot output Frame Packing or MVC 3D MKV.
Apparently Sony or Magix Vegas can be used.
https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...ad.php?t=43581

At this point it's become too complicated and the software is very expensive, unfortunately.
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I created a dual-stream file out of Edius of a 1080x24p file. Dual stream is essentially like a frame-packed 3D file and can be viewed by PowerDVD as 3D. I input that into Powerdirector 17 and created a 720x60p bluray iso file. I then tried to view that in PowerDVD, and it could not be read. I tried several different versions of PowerDVD, and all were the same. At one point it gave me an out of range error. So my conclusion is you are not going to be able to create a 720x60p frame-packed file from a 1080x24p file. Might be a false conclusion since I only did this with one file.
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I created a dual-stream file out of Edius of a 1080x24p file. Dual stream is essentially like a frame-packed 3D file and can be viewed by PowerDVD as 3D. I input that into Powerdirector 17 and created a 720x60p bluray iso file. I then tried to view that in PowerDVD, and it could not be read. I tried several different versions of PowerDVD, and all were the same. At one point it gave me an out of range error. So my conclusion is you are not going to be able to create a 720x60p frame-packed file from a 1080x24p file. Might be a false conclusion since I only did this with one file.
But I don't want to make a [email protected] FP 3D file, it's a [email protected] FP 3D that I would like.
I know it's an unsupported format.

After this file would have been created as an 3D MVC MKV (from an 3D ISO (via MakeMKV) or directly), it would have been interpolated to @60 on the fly in an interpolation software, or by transcoding it in SVP: https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Manual:SVPcode
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-24-2019, 02:57 PM
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But I don't want to make a [email protected] FP 3D file, it's a [email protected] FP 3D that I would like.
I know it's an unsupported format.

After this file would have been created as an 3D MVC MKV (from an 3D ISO (via MakeMKV) or directly), it would have been interpolated to @60 on the fly in an interpolation software, or by transcoding it in SVP: https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Manual:SVPcode
Ahh, I see what you are trying to do, but it isn't going to work for bluray.
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Ahh, I see what you are trying to do, but it isn't going to work for bluray.
What do you mean by for blu ray?
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post #20 of 20 Old 07-28-2019, 08:23 AM
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There is another application for transcoding with interpolation, but don't know how to use it: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174793

LE: SVP transcoding does not support MVC codec.

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