MartinLogan Motion Vision X Soundbar Review - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 26Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 51 Old 02-23-2016, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
MartinLogan Motion Vision X Soundbar Review

Compared to a typical TV's speakers, a soundbar is a serious sonic upgrade targeting the nexus of price, performance, aesthetics, and convenience that many consumers crave. Some soundbars are simple, inexpensive devices that exist for the sole purpose of replacing the abysmal built-in audio found in most TVs. Others aim higher and aspire to be the center of attention, be it for movies, TV, or music. Unsurprisingly, higher performance comes at a higher cost.

The MartinLogan Motion Vision X soundbar ($1700) is undeniably in the second, high-performance category. It is overflowing with features, including DTS Play-Fi wireless audio, 100 watts of total power, four woofers, and folded-ribbon tweeters. This soundbar is explicitly marketed as a premium sound system for playing music as well as a surround system for TV and movies.

If you are picky about audio fidelity yet have no choice but to go with a soundbar due to spousal acceptance, kids, pets, or limited space, then you are likely looking at premium models such as the Motion Vision X. You might even add a nice subwoofer to make it a full-range system. Let's see what this luxury soundbar has to offer.

Features

The Vision X is noticeably better built than soundbars I've reviewed in the past. For one thing, the piano-black, sculpted, rear-ported enclosure is very substantial, weighing in at 20 pounds. The device measures 5" (H) x 40" (W) x 5.8" (D) and supports either wall mounting or placement on a flat surface; a wall-mount bracket is provided in the box.


Closeup view of the Vision X's piano-black, sculpted enclosure.

Connectivity options are audio-only; this is not an HDMI-equipped device. The back panel offers optical, coaxial, and Ethernet digital connections. It also offers dual-band 802.11 g/n Wi-Fi. You'll also find a 3.5 mm stereo analog input back there, as well as an input for an IR repeater.


The rear panel on the Vision X.

The soundbar's network connectivity comes in handy because it works with DTS Play-Fi, an open-platform streaming-audio system that supports resolutions up to 24-bit/192 kHz on multiple devices. The cool thing about Play-Fi is that it's brand-agnostic, meaning the Vision X will work with products made by other companies. With Play-Fi, the soundbar can serve as a stereo system that taps into a vast library of cloud-based content, all at your fingertips.

The performance specs are impressive for a soundbar; frequency response is listed from 43 Hz to 23 kHz (+/-3 dB). Three "Folded Motion Transducers"—aka AMT (air-motion transformer) tweeters—handle highs from 3000 Hz on up. Meanwhile, four 4" mid/woofers take care of lower frequencies. The Vision X has a subwoofer output that works with any sub featuring an RCA input, and it also connects wirelessly to any sub using MartinLogan's SWT-2 kit (which I did not test).

Power is provided by seven amplifiers—one per driver—and the system's total output is spec'd at 100 watts (200 watts peak).

This soundbar includes an extruded-aluminum remote that is simply fantastic. It's rare for me to get excited about a remote control, but in this case it's justified. Offering only the controls you need most often, it defers to the menu for deeper adjustments. It feels good in your hand, and the buttons are solid (not squishy rubber). The Vision X also has an IR-learning function that allows you to program it to respond to other remote controls.


The Vision X's remote is just about perfect.

Several listening modes are available, and each offers numerous adjustments for fine-tuning. You can select one of three sound modes—Bass+, Normal, and Night—and tweak bass levels in 2 dB increments. When playing stereo content, you can select one of three modes—Wide (for an expanded stereo image), Voice+ (which creates a virtual center channel), and Normal (no processing). When playing surround content such as PCM, Dolby Digital, and DTS Digital Surround, you can turn simulated surround on or off and boost the surround effect by 6 dB.

A blue alphanumeric LED display is located behind the soundbar's grill. It shines right through the grill cloth, and it's invisible when not in use. You can adjust the display's brightness, set it to adjust automatically based on ambient light levels, and choose whether it turns off a few seconds after changing a setting.

Setup

Every time I set up a soundbar, I'm reminded of one major factor that makes these devices appealing to people who want better sound from a TV: easy installation. Nothing is simpler than placing a soundbar on a flat surface, and that's how I used it. The only issue I encountered was the 5-inch-tall chassis blocking the bottom of my TV screen, so I used a 2-inch-thick shelf—which I keep handy for exactly that purpose—to give the TV a boost.

I connected the Vision X to my Wi-Fi network so I could use Play-Fi. At first, it didn't show up on my network, but then I had a revelation—read the instructions! I followed the manual's advice and placed the unit next to my router while performing the initial connection using WPS, and within a minute the process was complete. The Play-Fi app then prompted me to update the soundbar.

My TV offers an digital-optical output, so I used that to connect it to the soundbar. I also connected a subwoofer—an ELAC S12EQ ($700, review coming soon). That sub offers on-board EQ, which is beneficial for this application since the soundbar does not feature any sort of EQ or room-correction capability. I tweaked the sub's levels using REW and a UMIK-1 measurement mic, but most people can adjust the level by ear to suit their taste. Note that this soundbar does not require a subwoofer, although it does benefit from one. As the specifications indicate, it's quite competent in the bass department.

Performance

As long as you don't expect miracles, the Vision X offers an elevated listening experience that is notably better than what most soundbars can muster. Indeed, the primary limitation of the system is the spacing of the drivers as opposed to their quality.

Quick in-room measurements yielded very impressive frequency-response graphs, on par with what I'd expect from good bookshelf speakers. Specifically, from my listening position I measured a frequency response (without a subwoofer) of 40 Hz to 24 kHz, just like the specs claim.

Bass response was somewhat uneven, which is not a huge surprise, since the location of the soundbar is determined by the TV, not by what would be acoustically optimum. In my room, that put the soundbar about 30 inches forward of the front wall—and, of course, right below the TV screen. The result was overly strong bass at default settings. Once I dialed down the bass level to -6, the bass-response curve flattened out and looked very good. Adding the sub provided an even better measured result—a near-flat response that extended from 25 Hz up past 20 kHz. Using the sub's onboard EQ reduced the effect of room modes responsible for bass peaks and nulls and also improved the system's bass extension.

I cycled through the Vision X's various sound modes and found myself gravitating toward the most neutral settings. For stereo listening, that was the Normal mode; for surround material, it meant using the simulated surround without the 6 dB boost. I never felt the need to use the Bass+ or Night setting. To my ears, the sound of the system was so accurate that added processing was a distraction, especially for 2-channel music listening.

The Motion Vision X managed to conjure a surprisingly wide and deep soundfield while playing stereo music in Normal mode, despite being only 40" wide. It's not the same soundfield you'd get from a pair of optimally placed bookshelf speakers, but it's several cuts above what I expect to hear from most soundbars. What's impressive to me is that it does this without using reflected sound or any DSP trickery. Wide mode brings DSP processing into the equation, and the result does sound more expansive, but there's a loss of definition that I felt was too much of a compromise.

DTS Play-Fi was a pleasure to use; I really appreciated the PC app that can stream just about anything to the soundbar, including iTunes and local files. It's a feature that Google's otherwise fantastic Chromecast lacks, and one that makes Play-Fi very appealing. I used it to stream a bunch of ripped CDs I keep on my PC, including Coil's Love's Secret Domain, Com Truise albums, Sly & Robbie albums, classic Peter Gabriel, Thievery Corporation, Massive Attack, and a whole bunch of hip-hop including Danny Brown and Dr. Dre. What can I say? It makes music sound great.

Of course, soundbars have to be adept at reproducing TV, video-game, and movie sound—music is only part of the equation. And yes, the Vision X deftly handled AV sound, whether it was the Super Bowl, an action movie like Spectre or Jurassic World, or an extended session of Grand Theft Auto 5.

Conclusion

I'm not going to lie—for the same money you'd spend on a MartinLogan Motion Vision X soundbar, you can get a better-performing system that consists of an AVR and speakers. It's just a fact of life. But if speakers and an AVR were the best choice for everyone, soundbars would not exist.

While $1700 is a lot for a soundbar, you get what you pay for from MartinLogan. Is it three times better than a $500 model? Yes. Is it twice as good as any $800 soundbar I've heard? Yes. High fidelity is what sets the Vision X apart from its competition, and I have never heard another powered soundbar sound so much like a high-quality speaker system.

The Vision X is a great choice for a modern living room where a full-sized stereo is not an option but high-quality sound is desired.

ASSOCIATED GEAR

Sony PlayStation 4
Samsung PN64F8500 plasma TV
Sony VAIO Windows 10 laptop
ELAC S12EQ subwoofer
freeman4 likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 02-23-2016 at 08:46 PM.
imagic is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 51 Old 02-23-2016, 06:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 799 Post(s)
Liked: 410
Nice review Mark.

If you liked the soundbar, you should try to review a full Martin Logan Motion system some time. I'm thinking you'd enjoy those "Folded Motion" AMT's quite a bit when optimally placed. Outstanding finishes for a reasonable price to boot.
emcdade is offline  
post #3 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 03:30 AM
Member
 
comike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 7
The review was very thorough and I learned a lot from reading this. At that price point however, it will cost more than some 65"-75" 4K televisions this sound bar will sit beneath. But at $2400 (sound bar and sub) I'm sure the two customers that MartinLogan ultimately sells this to will appreciate the sound.

Mike O
comike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,470
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by comike View Post
The review was very thorough and I learned a lot from reading this. At that price point however, it will cost more than some 65"-75" 4K televisions this sound bar will sit beneath. But at $2400 (sound bar and sub) I'm sure the two customers that MartinLogan ultimately sells this to will appreciate the sound.

Mike O
It will also cost a lot less. Both sides can equally be argued.

Why would you assume only two customers would purchase this?
fatuglyguy likes this.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
bgtighe23 is offline  
post #5 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 10:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 2,873
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2325 Post(s)
Liked: 1130
What other soundbars would you consider this soundbar to be "better" than?

Wirecutter did a very in-depth review of soundbars and while the Martin Logan was the winner the previous year - they gave the Paradigm Soundscape the award (then changed it to the Sonos later, but let's not go there!).

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-soundbar/

Have you heard the Paradigm Soundscape or B&W Panorama 2?
New24K is offline  
post #6 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 10:50 AM
Senior Member
 
freeman4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 1057
Thanks for the review, Mark!

Ease of setup and aesthetics aside, I'm wondering how this soundbar would stand up to a pair of AJ's new ELAC Uni-Fi UB5's paired with an economical AVR. For sure, it would be half the price.
freeman4 is offline  
post #7 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by New24K View Post
What other soundbars would you consider this soundbar to be "better" than?

Wirecutter did a very in-depth review of soundbars and while the Martin Logan was the winner the previous year - they gave the Paradigm Soundscape the award (then changed it to the Sonos later, but let's not go there!).

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-soundbar/

Have you heard the Paradigm Soundscape or B&W Panorama 2?
Sonos, Denon HEOS, any Vizio, any Samsung, Definitive Technology, Klipsch, Bose... and the YSP-5600 if you leave out the Atmos,are all beaten by the Vision X.

Soundbars I've heard that appear to be in the same league = Focal Dimension, Paradigm Soundscape. I don't know about vs. DefTech, B&W, or Sony's top soundbar.
WOLVERNOLE likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #8 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeman4 View Post
Thanks for the review, Mark!

Ease of setup and aesthetics aside, I'm wondering how this soundbar would stand up to a pair of AJ's new ELAC Uni-Fi UB5's paired with an economical AVR. For sure, it would be half the price.
Left unsaid in the review is that's the exact comparison I made.
freeman4 likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #9 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked: 533
Mark, between the Vision X and YSP-5600 which has crisper vocals? Which has a less warm sound? I'm looking for clean crisp fidelity, not warmth.
Orbitron is online now  
post #10 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Mark, between the Vision X and YSP-5600 which has crisper vocals? Which has a less warm sound? I'm looking for clean crisp fidelity, not warmth.
Can't say for sure, have not compared with the same material, in the same room. The MartinLogan is extremely clear and finely detailed, great tweeters, I suspect it could out-crisp the Yamaha. Regardless, there's nothing harsh about the Vision X highs, either.
WOLVERNOLE likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #11 of 51 Old 02-24-2016, 06:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked: 533
Right, not questioning harshness. My interest in the Vision X would be as a possible replacement for my B&W Panorama. Anyway, the local big box store has it in stock but no floor model to demo - buy, take home, then decide...
imagic likes this.
Orbitron is online now  
post #12 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 06:38 AM
Member
 
comike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
It will also cost a lot less. Both sides can equally be argued.

Why would you assume only two customers would purchase this?
I'm honestly surprised at the price point. Even at half that cost it's still just a sound bar (and one that is recommended to add a subwoofer as well). But like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder I guess and folks will spend their money where they wish.
comike is offline  
post #13 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Right, not questioning harshness. My interest in the Vision X would be as a possible replacement for my B&W Panorama. Anyway, the local big box store has it in stock but no floor model to demo - buy, take home, then decide...
If you do, please post your impressions.
WOLVERNOLE likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is online now  
post #14 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 08:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,470
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by comike View Post
I'm honestly surprised at the price point. Even at half that cost it's still just a sound bar (and one that is recommended to add a subwoofer as well). But like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder I guess and folks will spend their money where they wish.
I'm not very surprised at the price point. It's Martin Logan...
Even at half the cost, they are still speakers... or subs... or a TV...or a car... Even at half the cost, it's still a snow mobile...I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

Just because this isn't something you would personally purchase, doesn't mean that it will only appeal to a couple people. You shouldn't cast products out because it's not something you would personally use. You say "just a sound bar" like they are only allowed to be built and produced cheaply. Then a sound bar that's on the expensive side comes around (yes, I know this isn't the first) and you disagree with it because "it's still just a sound bar". I have a problem with that.

This is for those you can't have large speakers (and the other things that follow, receivers, cables, etc.) due to space, WAF, or whatever the reason, but still want great SQ reproduction.
I understand ML isn't going to sell as many as these as they do speakers, but it offers extended flexibility as a consumer, and as a company and appeals to those select few.
imagic and WOLVERNOLE like this.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
bgtighe23 is offline  
post #15 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 09:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Why Not Wider?

The inclusion of MartinLogans' tweeters probably do give this soundbar greater clarity and definition than others, but it's regrettable that they didn't make the soundbar wider, to create a bigger soundstage and greater channel separation.

That's a limiting factor in most sounbars, and is probably an unfortunate reflection of styling and a desire for compactness.

I'd like to see a wider version, with rear satellites employing the same folded ribbon drivers.
taichi4 is offline  
post #16 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 09:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tezster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mississauga, Canada
Posts: 1,705
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 643 Post(s)
Liked: 541
Hi Mark - how does this soundbar compare with the GoldenEar SuperCinema 3D Array XL (which you've previously reviewed)?
WOLVERNOLE likes this.
tezster is offline  
post #17 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,465
Mentioned: 425 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8812 Post(s)
Liked: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post
Hi Mark - how does this soundbar compare with the GoldenEar SuperCinema 3D Array XL (which you've previously reviewed)?
Can't touch the much wider GoldenEar for imaging, the GE also benefitted from the inclusion of the in-depth bass management as well as room correction offered by the AVR I drove it with (Pioneer SC-85)
WOLVERNOLE, hpp8140 and New24K like this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum

Last edited by imagic; 02-25-2016 at 11:37 AM.
imagic is online now  
post #18 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 11:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: WI
Posts: 2,873
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2325 Post(s)
Liked: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Can't touch the much wider GoldenEar for imaging, the GE also benefitted from the inclusion of the in-depth bass management as well as room correction offered by the AVR I drove it with (Pioneer SC-85)
I would assume that the GoldenEar 3D Array XL along with the SuperSat 3s for the surrounds and ForceField sub/SuperSub X would be hard to beat.
imagic likes this.
New24K is offline  
post #19 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
I was going to mention the GoldenEar in my original post, as that system sets the bar, in my mind, for a wide and deep soundstage. I'm glad that Mark acknowledged it.

The GoldenEar also employees left right channel differential, via sound processing, to expand the soundstage. Really, the width of the soundstage is an important determinant of the performance of most soundbars.

Of course, the need for an AVR with the GoldenEar again raises the question of soundbar versus separates... with a further wrinkle provided by the consideration of compact satellite-sub systems. Such systems can fit well into space-challenged environments.

I've been reading recently about Monitor Audio's Mass 5.1 system, which even though not updated since 2013, seems a remarkable system.

Do any readers of this thread own the Mass?
taichi4 is offline  
post #20 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Orbitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,295
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked: 533
As someone who would be looking to boost the treble on a soundbar, where is the treble adjustment?

http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manua...n-vision-x.pdf
Orbitron is online now  
post #21 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 02:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
hpp8140's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DC Metro
Posts: 962
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Liked: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
As someone who would be looking to boost the treble on a soundbar, where is the treble adjustment?

http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manua...n-vision-x.pdf
The Paradigm soundscape includes a few details left out by ML.

  • Treble adjustment
  • 80Hz crossover when used with a sub vs. continuing to play full range

Paradigm PW AMP, KEF Q100, Emotiva B1, Rythmik L12
hpp8140 is offline  
post #22 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 04:25 PM
Member
 
comike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
...You shouldn't cast products out because it's not something you would personally use. You say "just a sound bar" like they are only allowed to be built and produced cheaply. Then a sound bar that's on the expensive side comes around (yes, I know this isn't the first) and you disagree with it because "it's still just a sound bar". I have a problem with that....
I wasn't aware there were rules preventing me from offering a dissenting opinion.

When it comes to spending MY money, I indeed vote with my wallet, and I can cast out any products I wouldn't personally use. I guess if you comment on these forums you're supposed to fall in love with every product and make certain you don't offend anyone else's buying decisions. And BTW, I couldn't care less if it's Martin Logan or Radio Shack, I still offer my opinion that they are over priced for a sound bar.

'nuf said.

Mike O
comike is offline  
post #23 of 51 Old 02-25-2016, 06:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by comike View Post
I wasn't aware there were rules preventing me from offering a dissenting opinion.

When it comes to spending MY money, I indeed vote with my wallet, and I can cast out any products I wouldn't personally use. I guess if you comment on these forums you're supposed to fall in love with every product and make certain you don't offend anyone else's buying decisions. And BTW, I couldn't care less if it's Martin Logan or Radio Shack, I still offer my opinion that they are over priced for a sound bar.

'nuf said.

Mike O
I think it completely appropriate, and very much in the spirit of an open forum, that you express your opinion. A forum is for the free exchange of ideas. It's best if these exchanges are civil in tone, and your post was entirely civil.

I reread your original post and did not find that you're "casting" anything out, nor did you say that only "a couple of people" would buy it.

All this has nothing to do with the quality of Martin Logan's products, which are very fine indeed. Nor was your post in any way a slight of Mark's excellent review.

A tempest in a teapot...
WOLVERNOLE and comike like this.
taichi4 is offline  
post #24 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 07:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 8
LOL, I am one of the two, so Martin Logan must be almost on sales-forecast!

Just kidding! I do not have an AV room, we have one living room in the house. So we wanted to hide as much as possible. The ML soundbar and a REALLY nice cabinet from BDI (BDI 8177) had turned out to be a nice upgrade for us.

I listened to only a limited number of options, but really liked the ML. Voices were a priority, and with the right setting, the ML has been a big improvement. I tried a lot of settings on the ML, both in 5.1 and Stereo mode. For our specific room and preferences, the setting "Stereo Wide" has been our favorite.

I also have to admit having a little brand-loyalty to ML, after years with their electrostatic speakers . . .



WOLVERNOLE, emcdade and imagic like this.
JonMN is offline  
post #25 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 07:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,470
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by comike View Post
I wasn't aware there were rules preventing me from offering a dissenting opinion.

When it comes to spending MY money, I indeed vote with my wallet, and I can cast out any products I wouldn't personally use. I guess if you comment on these forums you're supposed to fall in love with every product and make certain you don't offend anyone else's buying decisions. And BTW, I couldn't care less if it's Martin Logan or Radio Shack, I still offer my opinion that they are over priced for a sound bar.

'nuf said.

Mike O
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
I think it completely appropriate, and very much in the spirit of an open forum, that you express your opinion. A forum is for the free exchange of ideas. It's best if these exchanges are civil in tone, and your post was entirely civil.

I reread your original post and did not find that you're "casting" anything out, nor did you say that only "a couple of people" would buy it.

All this has nothing to do with the quality of Martin Logan's products, which are very fine indeed. Nor was your post in any way a slight of Mark's excellent review.

A tempest in a teapot...
taichi4, did you fail to read post number 3? It clearly says "I'm sure the two customers that MartinLogan ultimately sells this to will appreciate the sound. "
Mike is expressing his opinion, I'm expressing mine.

There isn't rules on opinions. That's what an opinion is. I never said how you can spend your money. I never even made a comment close to that.
(underlined) Where has that ever been said? I certainly didn't fall in love with this sound bar...

Again, you're saying "just a sound bar", so to keep things simple, I'm not going to repeat my thoughts on that.

Just because it's not something you would personally purchase, doesn't make it any less as a product.
If you're going to simply cast this product out and call it over-priced, why even comment on it.

And who are you to decide that this is over-priced? You are saying it's over priced because you feel that sound bars should be made and sold cheaply. "It's just a sound bar". You're saying that if one is to invest in a sound bar, the consumer should only be looking at ones that are cheap and inexpensive.
I don't care who owns a sound bar, who purchases one, who has good or bad things to say about their capabilities. It's the fact that you know nothing more than that this is "just a sound bar" and claiming it's over-priced.
How much do the drivers cost? How about the cabinet? How about internal components or the flexible rear-panel?

By the way, that's a nice snow mobile...unfortunately because "it's just a snow mobile", its over-priced.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log

Last edited by bgtighe23; 02-26-2016 at 07:32 AM.
bgtighe23 is offline  
post #26 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMN;41923273...
I also have to admit having a little brand-loyalty to ML, after years with their electrostatic speakers . . .



[IMG
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r236/jwphotos9/7B7E846B-1663-407F-9545-F1120BED1C8B_zpsflwnniwc.jpg[/IMG]
Understandable. Martin Logan is a great company... one that never releases anything other than truly fine products. I'd love to own their full-size electrostatics, with their transparent, hanging in the air sound.
taichi4 is offline  
post #27 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 04:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
taichi4, did you fail to read post number 3? It clearly says "I'm sure the two customers that MartinLogan ultimately sells this to will appreciate the sound. "
Mike is expressing his opinion, I'm expressing mine. ..
I hadn't read Post 3, so I retract that comment.

But to say "Who are you to say" is to do more than express an opinion. It's putting the other person down, which I don't believe it is civil.

There isn't a single way of looking at things, and in some peoples' worldview that's too much for a soundbar... not because the drivers may not be exemplary, perfect transducers...but rather because it exceeds what the poster would ever want to spend on a soundbar.

Another person, in possibly a different financial bracket, and with different criteria for sound, might consider it perfectly reasonably priced. There is no right or wrong here, and no need to say, "Who are you to say?"
taichi4 is offline  
post #28 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 05:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,470
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
I hadn't read Post 3, so I retract that comment.

But to say "Who are you to say" is to do more than express an opinion. It's putting the other person down, which I don't believe it is civil.

There isn't a single way of looking at things, and in some peoples' worldview that's too much for a soundbar... not because the drivers may not be exemplary, perfect transducers...but rather because it exceeds what the poster would ever want to spend on a soundbar.

Another person, in possibly a different financial bracket, and with different criteria for sound, might consider it perfectly reasonably priced. There is no right or wrong here, and no need to say, "Who are you to say?"
I questioned him because he was making the statement that the sound bar is over-priced without any proof, any idea or concept in relation to what makes the sound bar over-priced.
So because this sound bar is out of Mike's budget, he's allowed to say it's over-priced? Those statements are civil to you? Just because an item is out of someone's budget doesn't make it over-priced.
I would feel pretty put down if my purchase, my investment of this sound bar or any purchase for that matter was criticized as being over-priced.

Did I ever say there was only one way to look at things? Maybe instead of looking at just me, and just my posts, you should take note of the other posts as well.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
bgtighe23 is offline  
post #29 of 51 Old 02-26-2016, 08:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 533 Post(s)
Liked: 315
I think that comike has a right to his opinion, even if it's based on a subjective or cursory familiarity with this soundbar. This is a forum, not a court.

To some people any premium soundbar, whether it be this one, the excellent GoldenEar, or the Yamaha 5600 Atmos (any of which I'd love to own) is overpriced, because it exceeds their concept of how much any soundbar shold cost. Reading the threads on this forum, there are plenty of people who won't spend more than $500, or $800, or whatever is their upper limit.

I don't think criticizing a soundbar...or any object...is uncivil. Criticizing people, or making ad hominem attacks, is uncivil. Your buying this soundbar is a fine decision for you, based on your needs and budget, and none of comike's comments alter that fact.
taichi4 is offline  
post #30 of 51 Old 02-27-2016, 06:42 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bgtighe23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,470
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1846 Post(s)
Liked: 1231
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
I think that comike has a right to his opinion, even if it's based on a subjective or cursory familiarity with this soundbar. This is a forum, not a court.

To some people any premium soundbar, whether it be this one, the excellent GoldenEar, or the Yamaha 5600 Atmos (any of which I'd love to own) is overpriced, because it exceeds their concept of how much any soundbar shold cost. Reading the threads on this forum, there are plenty of people who won't spend more than $500, or $800, or whatever is their upper limit.

I don't think criticizing a soundbar...or any object...is uncivil. Criticizing people, or making ad hominem attacks, is uncivil. Your buying this soundbar is a fine decision for you, based on your needs and budget, and none of comike's comments alter that fact.
I never said he didn't have a right to his own opinion.

I don't understand how you are missing the point. Just because the sound bar exceeds a consumers concept of how much a sound bar should cost, does NOT make it over-priced! It makes the sound bar out of budget.

Reading on this forum, there are plenty of people who won't spend $500 on subs or $500 speakers or $500 on a TV. Does that make every speaker, sub, or TV above $500 over-priced? No. It makes them out of budget or the user is satisfied with a sub(s), speakers, and/or a TV that's each under $500.

You're assuming I'm going to buy this sound bar? I never gave any type of reference that I was relatively interested in this product.

So because I disagree with Mike's statements makes me uncivil? I'm now attacking him? Please....I'm done wasting my time.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
bgtighe23 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Soundbars

Tags
Martinlogan , motion vision x , soundbar

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off