SONY 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos Soundbar HT-ST5000 - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1531 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
Just completed a chat with Sony e-support and unfortunately Sony does require HDMI ARC to support audio devices. So I guess I will follow their instructions.

I certainly appreciate your outstanding assistance Ellebob.
Sickens me these “tech support” people spout such utter nonsense.

As Ellebob states ARC of course isn’t required for audio, the fact the guy was telling you to turn off a feature that actually disables ARC makes it more clear you shouldn’t bother with them.

I have turned mine off and plan to use optical for TV tuner audio. ARC for me even with my Sony TV wasn’t great with this Soundbar, half the time it wouldn’t work. And it’s not a specific issue to my specific Soundbar as I have had 5 of them...

Other ARC devices worked well and still do when I try them, just ARC isn’t the most reliable.
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post #1532 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lukv View Post
Mudbound on Netflix - first few minutes and the middle of the movie with airfight.
That saying only a few devices support Atmos on Netflix so far.
I just ordered Star Trek. Great movie worthy of watching again. Looking for to hearing the Atmos effects.

Last edited by 49Merc; 02-14-2018 at 07:45 AM.
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post #1533 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSword View Post
Sickens me these “tech support” people spout such utter nonsense.

As Ellebob states ARC of course isn’t required for audio, the fact the guy was telling you to turn off a feature that actually disables ARC makes it more clear you shouldn’t bother with them.

I have turned mine off and plan to use optical for TV tuner audio. ARC for me even with my Sony TV wasn’t great with this Soundbar, half the time it wouldn’t work. And it’s not a specific issue to my specific Soundbar as I have had 5 of them...

Other ARC devices worked well and still do when I try them, just ARC isn’t the most reliable.
After comment regarding loss of ARC and sound fields with Bravia off I again contacted Sony. I was reassured that ARC continues to operate and no sound fields are lost. Is there a way to test for loss of sound fields?

Thank you.
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post #1534 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by hshock76 View Post
The 5000 does not simulate rears well so if you need near discrete levels of the surround for the rears I'll suggest you consider a soundbar with wireless rears.

If you are not in a rush, I'll suggest that test the new HT-Z9F when it is released in Spring.
After reading forever about the HT-ST5000, now i read this about the HT-Z9F. Is the HT-Z9F with added SA-Z9R
wireless rear surrounds be a better product than the ST5000 for 7.1 for an Atomos system?

Seems to me that the HT-ST5000 would be better IF you could add the HT-Z9F rear surrounds. Seems crazy if they dont make them compatible with both!
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post #1535 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
After comment regarding loss of ARC and sound fields with Bravia off I again contacted Sony. I was reassured that ARC continues to operate and no sound fields are lost. Is there a way to test for loss of sound fields?

Thank you.
Sound fields have nothing to do with arc, if you get sound into the Soundbar I can’t see why sound fields would have issues. Check the manual for what is supported, from memory only Bluetooth audio isn’t.
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post #1536 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
After comment regarding loss of ARC and sound fields with Bravia off I again contacted Sony. I was reassured that ARC continues to operate and no sound fields are lost. Is there a way to test for loss of sound fields?

Thank you.
This is direct from the horse's mouth so to speak.
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hd..._4_faq.aspx#15

Notice which formats are supported by ARC and which are not mentioned.
Supported format same as S/PDIF (aka optical or digital coax):
Dolby Digital (compressed 5.1 source)
DTS (compressed 5.1 source), PCM(uncompressed 16bit Stereo only).
Support for Dolby Digital Plus (compressed Atmos) was added later not in the original version 1.4

Formats not mentioned or supported by ARC.
Dolby True HD (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and ATMOS)
DTS HD Master Audio (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and DTS:X)
MPCM (multichannel PCM - lossless uncompressed 24 bit 7.1)

A couple other references for you.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/hdmi-ar...ews-26262.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...return-channel

Stop listening to GS and Sony tech support. They are hired to answer phones and help with common problems. They are not experts in these matters.
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post #1537 of 2390 Old 02-14-2018, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by flysheep View Post
Does anyone know what is the best position to place the subwoofer? The reason I ask is that I accidentally place the subwoofer into the corner which the front plane of subwoofer is not parallel but pointed to my ear directly. And it improved the sound quality more than 50% with no doubt!!! I don't know the subwoofer position can make such a big difference and probably there is still room for improvement....
The human ear really can't determine the source of the low frequencies produced by subwoofers so technically you should be able to put it anywhere. The corner placement suggestion is because you've got the two surfaces reflecting and essentially concentrating all that low end, it's said a +6dB boost is possible. What's more important in my experience is lining up the front of the sub with the front of the sound bar which results in the two speakers achieving improved phase alignment at the crossover point. When sound waves are in phase with one another, rather than cancelling each other out, you'll hear a lot better sound.

As the sub that pairs with the ST5000 has no crossover, volume or phase flip controls I'd assume they've tuned it at the factory to be optimally phase aligned and crossed over out of the box. Oh yes you can adjust the level of the sub relative to the bar but that won't improve phase cancellation.
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post #1538 of 2390 Old 02-15-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
This is direct from the horse's mouth so to speak.
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hd..._4_faq.aspx#15

Notice which formats are supported by ARC and which are not mentioned.
Supported format same as S/PDIF (aka optical or digital coax):
Dolby Digital (compressed 5.1 source)
DTS (compressed 5.1 source), PCM(uncompressed 16bit Stereo only).
Support for Dolby Digital Plus (compressed Atmos) was added later not in the original version 1.4

Formats not mentioned or supported by ARC.
Dolby True HD (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and ATMOS)
DTS HD Master Audio (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and DTS:X)
MPCM (multichannel PCM - lossless uncompressed 24 bit 7.1)

A couple other references for you.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/hdmi-ar...ews-26262.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...return-channel

Stop listening to GS and Sony tech support. They are hired to answer phones and help with common problems. They are not experts in these matters.
OMG! I’m very disheartened with both B.B. Geek Squad and Sony. My first Atmos movie will arrive tomorrow. What a disappointment it would have been to discover that feature did not work. Thank you, thank you Ellebob. I assume the only changes I need to make are to move the TV’s HDMI from ARC to another HDMI Input and reprogram my Harmony Elite. Please confirm.

My sincere gratitude......
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post #1539 of 2390 Old 02-15-2018, 07:07 PM
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It doesn't matter which HDMI input on the TV you connect the sound bar. I usually use HDMI 1 but sometimes a mount or something gets in the way and I use HDMI 2. You can even use the ARC input as it shouldn't matter if you turn off ARC/CEC (Braviasync), it will still work as a regular input.

Enjoy Start Trek it is a great movie. It is one of my demo pieces.
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post #1540 of 2390 Old 02-15-2018, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
It doesn't matter which HDMI input on the TV you connect the sound bar. I usually use HDMI 1 but sometimes a mount or something gets in the way and I use HDMI 2. You can even use the ARC input as it shouldn't matter if you turn off ARC/CEC (Braviasync), it will still work as a regular input.

Enjoy Start Trek it is a great movie. It is one of my demo pieces.
Thanks for the reply. Turned off Bravia Sync and moved from Arc to HDMI 2. All seems well.
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post #1541 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
It doesn't matter which HDMI input on the TV you connect the sound bar. I usually use HDMI 1 but sometimes a mount or something gets in the way and I use HDMI 2. You can even use the ARC input as it shouldn't matter if you turn off ARC/CEC (Braviasync), it will still work as a regular input.

Enjoy Start Trek it is a great movie. It is one of my demo pieces.
According to realorfake4k.com all the Star Trek movies were shot in 2K and upsampled to 4K. But hey if it looks good and sounds good, f it
I've been trying to start my disc collection with titles sourced from 4K masters or film > 4K transfers. I enjoy that site, seems like the guy does his homework.
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post #1542 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 10:27 AM
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Many of the movies that have CGI are done in 2K instead of 4K as CGI would take a lot longer. Even if the cameras are 4K it often gets converted to 2K for CGI and then up converted to 4K in the final process. For me 2k to 4k alone is not as big of a difference as what HDR/WCG adds for picture quality. I use the Star Trek movies as well as others after I do a video calibration to evaluate certain scenes for shadow detail, colors and flesh tones. Partly because I am very familiar with these scenes.

Thanks for that site. I haven't seen it before. It will be added to my favorites to check out some movies.
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post #1543 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
This is direct from the horse's mouth so to speak.
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hd..._4_faq.aspx#15

Notice which formats are supported by ARC and which are not mentioned.
Supported format same as S/PDIF (aka optical or digital coax):
Dolby Digital (compressed 5.1 source)
DTS (compressed 5.1 source), PCM(uncompressed 16bit Stereo only).
Support for Dolby Digital Plus (compressed Atmos) was added later not in the original version 1.4

Formats not mentioned or supported by ARC.
Dolby True HD (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and ATMOS)
DTS HD Master Audio (lossless uncompressed 7.1 and DTS:X)
MPCM (multichannel PCM - lossless uncompressed 24 bit 7.1)

A couple other references for you.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/hdmi-ar...ews-26262.html

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...return-channel

Stop listening to GS and Sony tech support. They are hired to answer phones and help with common problems. They are not experts in these matters.
Alright, I’ve spent time catching up on all the info. Am I correct in understanding that by connecting the sound bar to the ARC I am essentially limiting the performance of the sound bar?

I have my DTV tuner, Apple TV and Xbox One X into the sound bar and my Nvidia Shield into the TV. My TV is the Sony 65xbr900B. The sound bar is going into HDMI 2 which is the ARC (I’m pretty sure) and the shield is in HDMI 1.

I thought I had to put my hdmi from the sound bar into the ARC to get the sound bar to play sound from the Shield. Am I totally mistaken?

Thanks for the help. I’ve found the sound bar to be pretty good but I think the native tv speakers actually sound better when I’m using the DTV tuner which is what I use most of the time. I’d like that to change.
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post #1544 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 12:55 PM
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You are limiting your performance of the Shield if any of its material is using Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio. If you are just using the Shield for streaming apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc than they use DD+ and you are fine through ARC. If you are using something like Plex with Shield and have lossless material with those formats then yes you are limiting performance using ARC. If any of your other sources don't use those formats I would connect them to the TV instead and connect the Shield to the sound bar.

Ps. DTV should not sound better with the TV speakers. I would check out the DTV and sound bar settings. Is DTV set to bitstream or Dolby Digital. I forget what it is called in the DTV box. Also, what sound fields are defaulted on the sound bar when DTV is playing?

Last edited by Ellebob; 02-16-2018 at 01:03 PM.
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post #1545 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
It doesn't matter which HDMI input on the TV you connect the sound bar. I usually use HDMI 1 but sometimes a mount or something gets in the way and I use HDMI 2. You can even use the ARC input as it shouldn't matter if you turn off ARC/CEC (Braviasync), it will still work as a regular input.

Enjoy Start Trek it is a great movie. It is one of my demo pieces.
Ellebob I made the HDMI input change. Playing Star Trek in Atmos now. How do you like Atmos compared to True HD?
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post #1546 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 01:39 PM
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Well technically Atmos is True HD. There are two ways to get Atmos.

1. Atmos using Dolby TrueHD. This is the lossless sound version and not compressed.
2. Atmos using DD+, this is the compressed version and lesser quality than #1 .

If you meant the base 7.1 version vs. Atmos than definitely Atmos!
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post #1547 of 2390 Old 02-16-2018, 11:56 PM
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Dissapointed by the 5000's Atmos

Short and simple. Watched 4K Star Trek with Atmos. My 5000's Atmos performance was a great let down. Sure, there was output from both Atmos speakers but not any believable height. Is there a setting a may have overlooked?

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post #1548 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
You are limiting your performance of the Shield if any of its material is using Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio. If you are just using the Shield for streaming apps like Netflix, Hulu, etc than they use DD+ and you are fine through ARC. If you are using something like Plex with Shield and have lossless material with those formats then yes you are limiting performance using ARC. If any of your other sources don't use those formats I would connect them to the TV instead and connect the Shield to the sound bar.

Ps. DTV should not sound better with the TV speakers. I would check out the DTV and sound bar settings. Is DTV set to bitstream or Dolby Digital. I forget what it is called in the DTV box. Also, what sound fields are defaulted on the sound bar when DTV is playing?
It’s a tough one. DTV is used most often so it goes to sound bar (set to Dolby Digital). Apple TV is used a lot, but mostly streaming with occasional movies. Xbox one X is for my games/DVDs so that’s to the sound bar. I really need one more input on the sound bar for the Shield.

I’m using movie or standard most often with DTV. I don’t like the 3D sound with it but I will sometimes use the sports setting. I haven’t used Clear Audio much. It seems like the sound field is more limited with the sound bar. It seems narrower. My room totally sucks for sound with a vaulted cathedral ceiling and an opening on one side to the kitchen and bookshelves on the other. I’m not expecting much from Atmos but I wanted better sound. The xbr900B’s built in speakers are pretty good but I wanted more.

All that said, with streams from Amazon or DVDs, the sound is pretty impressive once the volume is kicked up. At lower volumes and on DTV I’ve been disappointed.
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post #1549 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 01:24 AM
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The best Atmos sources on 4K disc? I'm still searching.

Spoiler!
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post #1550 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 05:34 AM
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It’s a tough one. DTV is used most often so it goes to sound bar (set to Dolby Digital). Apple TV is used a lot, but mostly streaming with occasional movies. Xbox one X is for my games/DVDs so that’s to the sound bar. I really need one more input on the sound bar for the Shield.

I’m using movie or standard most often with DTV. I don’t like the 3D sound with it but I will sometimes use the sports setting. I haven’t used Clear Audio much. It seems like the sound field is more limited with the sound bar. It seems narrower. My room totally sucks for sound with a vaulted cathedral ceiling and an opening on one side to the kitchen and bookshelves on the other. I’m not expecting much from Atmos but I wanted better sound. The xbr900B’s built in speakers are pretty good but I wanted more.

All that said, with streams from Amazon or DVDs, the sound is pretty impressive once the volume is kicked up. At lower volumes and on DTV I’ve been disappointed.
I am trying to remember is your 900B the model with speakers on the side that actually aim at the listeners? If so than I am not surprised that they sound better than the sound bar. They are currently up to the 900F models and newer models no longer have decent sized speakers that aim towards the listeners.

I've said many times on this forum that I prefer a 2.0 or 2.1 system over sound bars for sound quality. I know that doesn't work for everyone's situation and I also know I trade off surround/atmos effect for the better sound quality. But, I am not a big fan of the faux effects compared to actually having speakers where they are supposed to be placed. You can only do so much with audio tricks and reflections.

To get better sound than your TV speakers you will need a sod bar that uses bigger drivers. Something like a Paradigm soundscape, Martin Logan Vision X, B&W Panorama etc. Those tend not to be as good at surround sound effect or features but have better sound quality.
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post #1551 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 05:38 AM
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Short and simple. Watched 4K Star Trek with Atmos. My 5000's Atmos performance was a great let down. Sure, there was output from both Atmos speakers but not any believable height. Is there a setting a may have overlooked?
I have been curious to hear your impressions of the sound bar compared to your old one. Makes sure Blu-ray player was set to Bitstream and not PCM. You can also try the different sound fields on the bar. Any surround or Atmos effect without actual speakers in proper locations is going to be very room dependent on how much effect you perceive.
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post #1552 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
I have been curious to hear your impressions of the sound bar compared to your old one. Makes sure Blu-ray player was set to Bitstream and not PCM. You can also try the different sound fields on the bar. Any surround or Atmos effect without actual speakers in proper locations is going to be very room dependent on how much effect you perceive.
Audio from the 5000 is seemingly much more powerful and richer than the Bose SoundTouch 130. There is no comparison between the 5000’s real subwoofer and the 130’s Accoutimass. Regarding the Sony 4K 800, it is set to Automatic not PCM. Oh, it will not update from my PC even though it is connected.

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post #1553 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 01:54 PM
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The 5000 and use of a Harmony Elite

I've had a nagging issue with Elite Hub's Blaster effectively transmitting commands to the 5000's sensor. I found the location of the sensor and not how the blaster very close by. Seeming, unnecessarily too close. Are any other 5000 owners experiencing such issues when using a Harmony Elite with your HT-ST 5000?

Comments please.

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Are you using just the hub or what Harmony calls the mini-blasters? If the mini-blaster where do you have it stuck on the sound bar? Sometimes I'll move the mini-blaster around before I stick it to find the spot where it works best. Move it around while adjusting the volume to find the best spot. Make sure the sound bar is assigned to the mini-blaster and not the hub.
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post #1555 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Are you using just the hub or what Harmony calls the mini-blasters? If the mini-blaster where do you have it stuck on the sound bar? Sometimes I'll move the mini-blaster around before I stick it to find the spot where it works best. Move it around while adjusting the volume to find the best spot. Make sure the sound bar is assigned to the mini-blaster and not the hub.
Elite transmits to the Hub which transmits thru the three blasters. I have the Sound Bar blaster near the sensor. It would be great if there is enough room behind the grill to place the blaster next to the sensor but am sure it is not. Today I found a perfect spot angled toward the sensor just in front of the grill. I'll try to put an inconspicuous small piece of tape to hold the blasters very small cable in place. The blaster has a foam pad on it's bottom. No double sided tape will stick to it and seeing that the media stand is a true piece of aged furniture my wife would kill me if I used hot glue to attach the blaster to the media cabinet top. Thanks for your reply.

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The blasters should have double sided tape that came on them. It's not foam you just have to peel off the paper. Stick it directly over sensor.
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post #1557 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
The blasters should have double sided tape that came on them. It's not foam you just have to peel off the paper. Stick it directly over sensor.
I’ll check them. Thanks

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post #1558 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
The blasters should have double sided tape that came on them. It's not foam you just have to peel off the paper. Stick it directly over sensor.
I checked, just a pad. Will think of a hack. Thanks

Sony 4K XBR55X930E, Sony 4K UBPX800 Blu-Ray Player, Sony HTST 5000 SoundBar, DirecTV 4K HS17 w/2 Mini Genies, Panamax MR5100 Power Manager, Harmony Elite Remote, Monoprice Cables
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post #1559 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 08:38 PM
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Does the blaster have an LED that blinks when it receives a signal?
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post #1560 of 2390 Old 02-17-2018, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Does the blaster have an LED that blinks when it receives a signal?
No, only the Hub. I found the Soundbar’s sensor moments ago so the blaster is in a sweet spot. Btw, the Soundbar’s grill is held on by magnets in case you want to display the speakers. Such a great design. Cathy and I talked about how great the bar sounds. 😊

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