SONY 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos Soundbar HT-ST5000 - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Atmos required new DSP solutions.

A vast majority of "legacy" products used one DSP chip that supports Dolby and DTS decoding, among other things.... that isn't the case any more.

I've spoken to DTS and Dolby about this... it's not as simple as you make it out to be... it doesn't matter.

Again, in the end, your speculation about Dolby having anything with the lack of DTS on this bar at launch, or the Samsung, is wrong....


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well, if it's the case that DTS was excluded because it needed a chip, then how to explain the posts here from a Sony rep that firmware later this year will enable DTS playback? and the same from Samsung support for their K950 soundbar for DTS:X ?
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post #182 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 12:03 PM
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Another review in Italian if not been posted as yet https://www.afdigitale.it/sony-ht-st...r-dolby-atmos/
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post #183 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mud sloth View Post
It's a lot more than I should spend on an upgrade to my YSP-2200, but as long as it supports the HD audio formats it'll be worth it. It'll be the only Atmos bar that can handle every type of audio thrown at it while being able to passthrough 4K and HDR.

Though, it would mean that I end up spending more on a soundbar than my TV. I guess that's a little ridiculous.
The capability of passing through HDR is a big plus for me, seeing as though external devices will need to be plugged into the bar directly to get the full Atmos sound given today's ARC capabilities.
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post #184 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 12:59 PM
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Hopefully some US reviews come out soon. I'm still considering the Sony, but also looking hard at the Pioneer. But good reviews are lacking for both units.

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post #185 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
well, if it's the case that DTS was excluded because it needed a chip, then how to explain the posts here from a Sony rep that firmware later this year will enable DTS playback? and the same from Samsung support for their K950 soundbar for DTS:X ?


Solid point +1. Again, that's my opinion without knowing a thing about the technology. Ha.

A) With that being said, logically speaking, let's concede that 2 chips are needed to process both DTS:X and Atmos. If you can stick both chips in a big square box (called an AVR), you can surely find a room in a longer rectangular box (Sound Bar). The Samsung and Sony are pretty big

Also, sounds like people are paying a pretty penny for both the Samsung and Sony. If there is a major tech difference between the AVR and Sound Bars, I can go along with it. Just want it explained. Simply curious along with many I assume.

B) Also still chugging along with the premise that 2 chips are needed, let's assume then that the bar does have both, because it's been hinted that it will receive support later this year......Why then does it need an update LATER this year when AVR's can do it right now?

C) If it doesn't need 2 chips, then still, why the wait for the update? There's a reason obviously.

Still haven't heard a thorough explanation or working theory. Just that 2 chips are needed. Not saying that is wrong, but that statement needs to be expanded upon.






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post #186 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 01:30 PM
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SONY 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos Soundbar HT-ST5000

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
well, if it's the case that DTS was excluded because it needed a chip, then how to explain the posts here from a Sony rep that firmware later this year will enable DTS playback? and the same from Samsung support for their K950 soundbar for DTS:X ?

For the same reason so many Atmos products had to wait for DTS:X deciding to be added later... it took some companies 9-12 months to do so.
It took some even longer to offer cross codec post processing after launch... and again every falsely assumed and speculated it must be Dolby's doing. Which it has been proven wasn't, and was entirely due to the complexity and resources (DSP and engineering) necessary to implement Atmos and X...

In the case of the Denon products, the DSP was split onto different SHARC processors... getting the decoded 5.1/7.1 PCM across for post processing using Dolby Surround and Neural:X wasn't a simple exercise.

To keep simply stating "well it works on my old sound bar and it shouldn't be any difference" means there isn't a fundamental understanding behind how AVRs or sound bars are designed from a DSP architecture standpoint.

I never said it wasn't going to happen... it doesn't really need explaining on how it could/will. And I don't know exactly what is inside the Sony or if it's a from scratch cuisine solution.

Some are making a big deal out of the why's and then speculating that Dolby has pressured Sony, or even has the ability to do that.... they don't and it's not the reason why it's shipping without DTS support.

That's not a fair thing to put on Dolby.

That's the only point...

In a side note I met the three lead engineers on this bar back in January... I was working at Sony doing an Atmos upmix and spent about 10 minutes chatting with them about the bar, and shared with them my experience about my Samsung 950.... in addition we spoke about the process of creating Atmos mixer for the theater and how that differs for doing it for the home.

That short conversation got me interested enough in this product and I will surely get one to replace my Samsung, even without DTS support

On another note, and not important to the conversation, but where on this thread did a Sony employee stare DTS was promised ? Just curious...


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Last edited by FilmMixer; 05-18-2017 at 01:33 PM.
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post #187 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
For the same reason so many Atmos products had to wait for DTS:X deciding to be added later... it took some companies 9-12 months to do so.
It took some even longer to offer cross codec post processing after launch... and again every falsely assumed and speculated it must be Dolby's doing. Which it has been proven wasn't, and was entirely due to the complexity and resources (DSP and engineering) necessary to implement Atmos and X...

In the case of the Denon products, the DSP was split onto different SHARC processors... getting the decoded 5.1/7.1 PCM across for post processing using Dolby Surround and Neural:X wasn't a simple exercise.

To keep simply stating "well it works on my old sound bar and it shouldn't be any difference" means there isn't a fundamental understanding behind how AVRs or sound bars are designed from a DSP architecture standpoint.

I never said it wasn't going to happen... it doesn't really need explaining on how it could/will. And I don't know exactly what is inside the Sony or if it's a from scratch cuisine solution.

Some are making a big deal out of the why's and then speculating that Dolby has pressured Sony, or even has the ability to do that.... they don't and it's not the reason why it's shipping without DTS support.

That's not a fair thing to put on Dolby.

That's the only point...

In a side note I met the three lead engineers on this bar back in January... I was working at Sony doing an Atmos upmix and spent about 10 minutes chatting with them about the bar, and shared with them my experience about my Samsung 950.... in addition we spoke about the process of creating Atmos mixer for the theater and how that differs for doing it for the home.

That short conversation got me interested enough in this product and I will surely get one to replace my Samsung, even without DTS support

On another note, and not important to the conversation, but where on this thread did a Sony employee stare DTS was promised ? Just curious...


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There wasn’t a post by a Sony Rep. I believe the poster was referring to blog articles from CES 2017 where the bloggers referenced comments from Sony Rep(s) who apparently stated that DTS:X support will be added later in 2017. The articles have been posted in this thread but I’m too lazy at the moment to dig back and find the links.

You obviously know what you are talking about. I probably wouldn’t know the difference if you were making this stuff up Honestly though, thanks for your thoughts and your comments. It’s greatly appreciated. However, I’ve always been told to know your audience. Maybe I’m the only non super-geek in here, but you lose me when you start going off about “cross codec post processing” etc

Could you please, in layman terms, explain what the major technological, differentiating factors are between a new, top tier Sound Bar, that acts like an AVR for all intents and purposes, and a “true” AVR like the Sony STR-DN1080. One is capable of processing both Atmos and DTS:X out of the gate. One isn’t. Both were announced at the same time at CES 2017.

This is simply the riddle that has me stumped.

Also, for those of us that are interested, it does matter to know, and to understand why things can or will/won’t happen between products. Many of us are trying to make an intelligent, informed decision between products. Most of us are able to get quick answers for most questions in this forum…most of the time. There are many smart people here. Way above my pay grade. However, I still have yet to see a reasonable, somewhat straight forward answer as to why a typical “AVR” can do it….but Sound Bars seem to be up in the air….

Thanks in advance.
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post #188 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 03:37 PM
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My guess is these are large companies with a lot of divisions and it is unlikely that the engineers which work on sound bars are the same as the ones working on receivers or TVs for that matter.
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post #189 of 2388 Old 05-18-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiadog View Post
Another review in Italian if not been posted as yet https://www.afdigitale.it/sony-ht-st...r-dolby-atmos/
Odd that both this review and the What Hifi have exact same PR photos, would be nice to see their own.
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post #190 of 2388 Old 05-19-2017, 09:47 AM
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Odd that both this review and the What Hifi have exact same PR photos, would be nice to see their own.
This review is exactly the same as the WhatHifi review, only translated to Italian.
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post #191 of 2388 Old 05-19-2017, 09:53 AM
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This review is exactly the same as the WhatHifi review, only translated to Italian.
Lol, my bad, didn't spot the logo at the bottom, or clocked the same structure...

Really want a more detailed review. Saw Amazon has a video showing the interface briefly. Hoping there's remote codes that can jump to certain inputs straightaway.
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post #192 of 2388 Old 05-20-2017, 01:18 AM
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i am so looking forward to more reviews of this thing.


fingers crossed it's the real deal as it is appearing to be.
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post #193 of 2388 Old 05-20-2017, 03:08 PM
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The local store where i have ordered my HT-ST5000 has been in contact with Sony France which confirm them that the firmware update shoud be roll out at the end of 2017.
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post #194 of 2388 Old 05-20-2017, 11:06 PM
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The local store where i have ordered my HT-ST5000 has been in contact with Sony France which confirm them that the firmware update shoud be roll out at the end of 2017.
The end of 2017!! That is a long ways off. Plus there needs to be official confirmation. I guess I might need to just go with the Pioneer solution?.

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post #195 of 2388 Old 05-21-2017, 04:58 AM
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The end of 2017!! That is a long ways off. Plus there needs to be official confirmation. I guess I might need to just go with the Pioneer solution?.

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I certainly don't mind waiting. With the lack of decent quality 4K discs so far, not to mention the rip off prices, I'm happy to play the waiting game.

Just fyi, if anyone is planning to buy one of these Sony soundbars, the Ikea Gettorp tv bench is a great fit.
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post #196 of 2388 Old 05-21-2017, 02:31 PM
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The end of 2017!! That is a long ways off. Plus there needs to be official confirmation. I guess I might need to just go with the Pioneer solution?.

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We are almost at the end of the year so end of 2017 will come very fast.
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post #197 of 2388 Old 05-21-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonny Red View Post
We are almost at the end of the year so end of 2017 will come very fast.


Maybe in France, but here in the U.S. December is 7 months away


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post #198 of 2388 Old 05-21-2017, 07:03 PM
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This is very tempting. I currently have an older Bose Cinemate 130 soundbar setup, and while it's a great sounding system and has served me well, it's starting to feel a little dated. So the Atmos, HDR, and streaming capabilities of this Sony system are very appealing.

The DTS situation is kind of a downer though...
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post #199 of 2388 Old 05-21-2017, 10:15 PM
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More than kind of. It's a major Downer. It's the main reason I'm looking at other options.

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post #200 of 2388 Old 05-22-2017, 01:45 PM
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Maybe in France, but here in the U.S. December is 7 months away


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My iPad changed what I wanted to say : we are almost at the half of 2017. 2017 is flying fast so we will be at the end of 2017 very quickly
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post #201 of 2388 Old 05-22-2017, 03:21 PM
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My iPad changed what I wanted to say : we are almost at the half of 2017. 2017 is flying fast so we will be at the end of 2017 very quickly
Well realistically, the last half will pass just as fast as the first half. And will pass just as fast as it did one hundred years ago. Since time is still the same. I guess unless it's a leap year, and then it would be one day longer. But that one day will still pass as fast as any other day does. Since all days pass by at exactly the same rate.

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post #202 of 2388 Old 05-22-2017, 08:07 PM
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Well realistically, the last half will pass just as fast as the first half. And will pass just as fast as it did one hundred years ago. Since time is still the same. I guess unless it's a leap year, and then it would be one day longer. But that one day will still pass as fast as any other day does. Since all days pass by at exactly the same rate.
You must be relatively young 'cause, the older you get, the quicker time goes by. Not kidding!
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post #203 of 2388 Old 05-22-2017, 11:23 PM
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My Amazon pre-order has now come up as delivery between June 10 and July 15...

So a bit too of a wait now
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post #204 of 2388 Old 05-23-2017, 07:35 AM
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You must be relatively young 'cause, the older you get, the quicker time goes by. Not kidding!
I'm in my 50's. Time still passes at the same rate for me as 45 years ago. It's just the perception that makes it seem to go by faster since you are busier. And there are many more distractions in this day and age.

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post #205 of 2388 Old 05-23-2017, 10:37 AM
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It s not the perception but the appreciation and value of time as you get older I'm in my 50s too.
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post #206 of 2388 Old 05-23-2017, 04:37 PM
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Does the ST5000 fit in front of a ZD9 75", is it low enough so it won't block any of the screen if it's on it's stand?

The TV will be inside a cabinet. Will the Atmos upward firing speakers be OK on the ledge, top edge of cabinet will be straight above but some about 110cm higher.

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post #207 of 2388 Old 05-23-2017, 04:59 PM
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The dimension specs can be found online. Don't have links to share this moment.


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post #208 of 2388 Old 05-23-2017, 05:06 PM
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Here is the Sony US page for the ST5000
http://www.sony.com/electronics/soun...etails_default

And here is the Crutchfield page
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-YcCckF...g&awug=9008162

Crutchfield lists the dimensions as 46-1/2"W x 3-1/8"H x 5-7/8"D
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post #209 of 2388 Old 05-24-2017, 08:40 AM
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http://www.lesnumeriques.com/enceint...7033/test.html

Review in French , atmos not as impressive ...
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post #210 of 2388 Old 05-24-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
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http://www.lesnumeriques.com/enceint...7033/test.html



Review in French , atmos not as impressive ...


Caveat: I didn't read the article. Can't translate from phone.

With that said, I totally expect it not to be fantastic "Atmos" sound. It is a sound bar with up-firing speakers after all and not a true setup. However in my case (Not doing a 5.1/2 or 7.1/2 system) it's better to have at least a great sound bar with mediocre "Atmos" sound than a sound bar without "Atmos". Still 7.1/2 channels on this puppy. I know, I know, it's still not a true 7.1 setup - for the detractors

Still waiting on the ever elusive DTS support. Ha


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