Official Nakamichi Shockwafe 9.2 and 7.2 dts:x dual subwoofers soundbars thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 5163 Old 01-12-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tppytel View Post
I'm sure they could. The question is whether it's worth doing. I only found a single hands-on report on that new bar (at TechRadar). It sounded pretty lukewarm about the Atmos quality, and I have low expectations of objectivity in that kind of review in the first place. And even then, it's a one-piece soundbar plus subwoofer. For $900. Sony can get away with that because they're Sony. Some number of consumers will see the brand, look at all the shiny codec logos on the box, and lay down their money. I think Nakamichi is aiming at a more discerning audience, and I think that's a reasonable strategy for a "little guy" to choose. It's certainly a more honest and consumer-friendly one.
There are two reviews on the Sony soundbar at CES thread.
https://www.stuff.tv/sony/ht-z9f/review
and the TechRadar one.

BTW, TechRadar gave it their best soundbar of CES award.
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post #242 of 5163 Old 01-12-2018, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ride525 View Post
There are two reviews on the Sony soundbar at CES thread.
https://www.stuff.tv/sony/ht-z9f/review
The Stuff review doesn't sound glowing either. Like the TechRadar one, it notes that simulated height effects are noticeable but clearly fall short of real upfiring speakers. And that's hardly surprising - it's just physics and biology.

While I wouldn't go as far as some would and say that "best soundbar" is an oxymoron, I do think what any tech site is going to celebrate as a "best soundbar" is treading well into niche territory - expensive attempts to pack full AVR functionality into a chic, modern-home-friendly package. When you get into talking about four figure soundbars, I really wonder what the point is, and I think the comment about subwoofers and cables reflects that. At that price point, you get in range of a real AVR setup, maybe even one with stylish speaker cabinets and wireless connects that makes it more living-room-friendly. Nakamichi's approach is not to "fake it" - to stick with real discrete speakers and keep the price down in the process. But then why pay so much money for the form factor if you're going to run four wires off of two subs? The Sony bar takes a different approach but doesn't really change the problem. For some group of customers, the aesthetics of a soundbar in front instead of discrete LCR's is worth it, and that's fine. Buy what works for your space. I just think it's a lot weaker value proposition than the smaller systems. One modest sub and two wired surrounds are easy to fit into a family-friendly space, provide decent movie audio, and keep costs and complexity down. Beyond that, I'd be looking at a discrete setup for better control and upgrade potential.
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post #243 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ride525 View Post
I have similar problem with Nakamichi "Soundbar" with wires to the four surrounds, and two subwoffers.

Haha the world is not perfect isn’t it? I noticed in the market there are 3 types of rear speaker system.

1. Wireless system with power cord attached to the surround speakers (Bose sound touch 300 and Samsung k950)
2. Full wireless system with built in rechargeable battery that last about 3 hours (jbl and Philips Fidelio soundbar)
3. Wireless system with audio cable attached to subwoofer. (Nakamichi)

I believe these 3 types has its pros and cons. Personally I think nakamichi configuration gives me better flexibility in terms of placement.

I wonder what’s you guys preference?



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post #244 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DWBoston View Post
I wasn't making any comment on the quality of the Sony product, just that it could do "virtual" Atmos without upfiring speakers. I actually bought the current Sony HT-ST5000 when it was on sale during Black Friday but returned it after discovering that Best Buy sold me an open box item as new. I've been looking at either the Nakamichi 9.2 or 7.2 Elite system, but my wife isn't crazy about the dual subwoofers and the rear speakers on stands, given our family room setup.


How about the pro 7.1 dtsx which uses only 1 sub? Probably the more wife-friendly version.


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post #245 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 10:13 AM
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I just got my 9.2 system a couple of days ago. I thought all was ok, but noticed today that Roku is only coming through as PCM even though I have audio set to DD. Same with Directv On-demand. Regular Directv broadcast movies and tuned channel audio comes through as Dolby. Has anyone had a similar problem and corrected it?
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post #246 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Edmonds View Post
I just got my 9.2 system a couple of days ago. I thought all was ok, but noticed today that Roku is only coming through as PCM even though I have audio set to DD. Same with Directv On-demand. Regular Directv broadcast movies and tuned channel audio comes through as Dolby. Has anyone had a similar problem and corrected it?
just ok?
what about atmos movies ? any effect ? i know it doesn't support atmos but this soundbar does a better job with it anyway
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post #247 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Micarina View Post
That’s interesting. I was watching a couple of Dolby Atmos movie with my 9.2. The discrete surround is so good that it makes me forget about Atmos height surround. I thought it is just me but looks like there are people has similar impression as well.


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I agree regarding the discrete sound. Sometimes there will be a sound, and I could swear it was happening in the room or outside! It will make you turn your head sometimes. Very pleased with the 9.2 thus far as I mentioned earlier. For movies and TV, I give it 9.5 (always room for improvement). For music, maybe a 7. But overall probably upgrade my previous rating of 8 out of 10 to 9.
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post #248 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony R. Green View Post
I agree regarding the discrete sound. Sometimes there will be a sound, and I could swear it was happening in the room or outside! It will make you turn your head sometimes. Very pleased with the 9.2 thus far as I mentioned earlier. For movies and TV, I give it 9.5 (always room for improvement). For music, maybe a 7. But overall probably upgrade my previous rating of 8 out of 10 to 9.


Personally I think music sounds better and balanced with stereo mode.

The 1 point for Dolby Atmos upgrade? Who knows what’s the next product going to be. The 9.2 is a really good soundbar and I will love to see more of their new products coming in the future. Probably one of the best deals I ever had.


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post #249 of 5163 Old 01-13-2018, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 4klover View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Edmonds View Post
I just got my 9.2 system a couple of days ago. I thought all was ok, but noticed today that Roku is only coming through as PCM even though I have audio set to DD. Same with Directv On-demand. Regular Directv broadcast movies and tuned channel audio comes through as Dolby. Has anyone had a similar problem and corrected it?
just ok?[IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.avsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
what about atmos movies ? any effect ? i know it doesn't support atmos but this soundbar does a better job with it anyway
Much better than ok, but I'm frustrated with the PCM issue.
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post #250 of 5163 Old 01-14-2018, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. I just came across this on Nakamichi's facebook page. They hosted some blind tests at their booth during CES and to the San Francisco Audiophile Society a few days ago. To be honest, I don't think such an event was necessary because I have used my preordered shockwafe Ultra 9.2 for 2 months now and I am still so happy at how it sounds. Definitely setting the benchmark for the industry for people who love surround sound.

Anyone went to CES 2018 this year and saw this?
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post #251 of 5163 Old 01-14-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsLover View Post
Interesting. I just came across this on Nakamichi's facebook page. They hosted some blind tests at their booth during CES and to the San Francisco Audiophile Society a few days ago. To be honest, I don't think such an event was necessary because I have used my preordered shockwafe Ultra 9.2 for 2 months now and I am still so happy at how it sounds. Definitely setting the benchmark for the industry for people who love surround sound.

Anyone went to CES 2018 this year and saw this?
I'm buying one the 9.2 this week.
I sold my st5000 at a loss because of this :/
Also bought a C7 65 too. I'm excited.
How's the sound with atmos content? Do you get the effect?
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post #252 of 5163 Old 01-14-2018, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Edmonds View Post
I just got my 9.2 system a couple of days ago. I thought all was ok, but noticed today that Roku is only coming through as PCM even though I have audio set to DD. Same with Directv On-demand. Regular Directv broadcast movies and tuned channel audio comes through as Dolby. Has anyone had a similar problem and corrected it?
Are all of those various sources going into the TV and then back out via ARC to the soundbar? If so, that's pretty odd that some get DD while others don't. Does your TV have an info display that can verify the incoming audio signal? There should be some settings in the TV that determine the audio format going back out over ARC, but it's odd that you're getting DD sporadically. For the Roku, are you getting surround or only stereo? If you're getting surround, then the TV might be decoding the DD to 5.1 PCM - that's not really a problem since it's the same information either way. 5.1 PCM isn't supposed to work over ARC in general, but it works on my C7 and old-model Nakamichi 7.1.
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post #253 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 4klover View Post
I'm buying one the 9.2 this week.
I sold my st5000 at a loss because of this :/
Also bought a C7 65 too. I'm excited.
How's the sound with atmos content? Do you get the effect?
You bet. It sounds amazing with atmos content. Really love the 4 surround speakers and 2 subwoofers. My living room feels like a cinema now. Think you made the right choice to upgrade to the 9.2 from your st5000 because now you have a true surround sound instead of simulated/virtualized surround sound.
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post #254 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dave Edmonds View Post
Much better than ok, but I'm frustrated with the PCM issue.
Maybe you might want to reach out to their support? They were very responsive to me when I needed advice on connectivity a couple of months back. Their email is [email protected]
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post #255 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsLover View Post
You bet. It sounds amazing with atmos content. Really love the 4 surround speakers and 2 subwoofers. My living room feels like a cinema now. Think you made the right choice to upgrade to the 9.2 from your st5000 because now you have a true surround sound instead of simulated/virtualized surround sound.
Thanks for the reply
I can't wait
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post #256 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 11:57 AM
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Help with hookup...

Hi Guys (and Gals),
I just received my 9.2, and not sure I have it connected to get the best possible sound. I have my Panny UHD Bluray, and Xfinity Cable box going via HDMI to the soundbar, then an HDMI from soundbar to the tv (LG OLED). The sound is good with Dolby ATMOS movies on UHD bluray, but not amazing. The bar indicates it's getting a Dolby signal, and there are sounds coming from all speakers (I have the back and surrounds separated as recommended for best sound), including the surrounds, so I guess it is correct.

One thing I can't figure out: I have a few DTS-HD 7.1 discs (like Deadpool), but can't seem to get the DTS signal to go to the soundbar. When I go to the disc menu, the DTS option is not there. And my Panny UB900 UHD player doesn't seem to have an option to pass the DTS-HD sound, even though it is DTS-X capable. Is it because DTS-HD 7.1 and DTS-X are different?

Any help is appreciated...

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post #257 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 12:32 PM
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Hi Guys (and Gals),
I just received my 9.2, and not sure I have it connected to get the best possible sound. I have my Panny UHD Bluray, and Xfinity Cable box going via HDMI to the soundbar, then an HDMI from soundbar to the tv (LG OLED). The sound is good with Dolby ATMOS movies on UHD bluray, but not amazing. The bar indicates it's getting a Dolby signal, and there are sounds coming from all speakers (I have the back and surrounds separated as recommended for best sound), including the surrounds, so I guess it is correct.

One thing I can't figure out: I have a few DTS-HD 7.1 discs (like Deadpool), but can't seem to get the DTS signal to go to the soundbar. When I go to the disc menu, the DTS option is not there. And my Panny UB900 UHD player doesn't seem to have an option to pass the DTS-HD sound, even though it is DTS-X capable. Is it because DTS-HD 7.1 and DTS-X are different?

Any help is appreciated...
you are right that dts-hd and dtsx are different but dtsx is sitting on top of dts-hd. It means when the device supports dtsx, it will backward compatible with dts-hd.

it sounds like the issue is on the bluray player. you may want to look for the setting (like bitstream audio output) and also check whether your bluray player support dts output.

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post #258 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 01:02 PM
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sounds like the majority of you who own the Ultra are very happy with the purchase

[1] Is there a concern with using this in a room with a peak (high) ceiling ? or do the surrounds mitigate that?

[2] when watching an Atmos movie, does DTS:X/neural actually make it seem like you're listening to an Atmos track (ie surrounds)? For example, from a great Atmos track from Deadpool UHD ?

[3] the box seems to weigh a ton, how did you guys get this to your house? delivery or pickup? it looks like Amazon or BestBuy are the only options two buy this

[4] why haven't there been any professional reviews (ie cnet or others) for the Ultra?
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post #259 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 02:04 PM
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sounds like the majority of you who own the Ultra are very happy with the purchase

[1] Is there a concern with using this in a room with a peak (high) ceiling ? or do the surrounds mitigate that?

[2] when watching an Atmos movie, does DTS:X/neural actually make it seem like you're listening to an Atmos track (ie surrounds)? For example, from a great Atmos track from Deadpool UHD ?

[3] the box seems to weigh a ton, how did you guys get this to your house? delivery or pickup? it looks like Amazon or BestBuy are the only options two buy this

[4] why haven't there been any professional reviews (ie cnet or others) for the Ultra?


1. I believe it is not a concern because it comes with 4 rear speakers to provide the surround effect. The system doesn’t rely on upfiring speaker like typical Dolby Atmos soundbar so it is more flexible and more adaptable to your listening environment.

2. Yes, neural x will upmix the content to 9.2 channels. Well the system doesn’t come with upfiring speaker which is a requirement for Dolby Atmos but for the impressive surround effect 9.2 is producing, I’m happy with the end result.

3. Self pickup. The box is pretty big about 48in in length.

4. That’s what I am wondering too. Hope we can see more reviews soon. Nonetheless, the ppl here and amazon gave a lot of good comments about this system which I believe it is more legit. You know sometime website like CNET is all about advertising.


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post #260 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 04:36 PM
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UHD player to tv to soundbar vs UHD player to soundbar to tv

Nakamichi recommends that devices be run through the soundbar first, then to the tv via HDMI. However, i like the other setup (UHD player > TV > Soundbar), as my remotes make more sense to me that way, the inputs on the tv can be set differently, etc. BUT...is it true that if the player goes through the tv first, that the TV (I have a 2017 LG OLED) doesn't support sending DTS-X audio to the soundbar?

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post #261 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CSonntag View Post
Nakamichi recommends that devices be run through the soundbar first, then to the tv via HDMI. However, i like the other setup (UHD player > TV > Soundbar), as my remotes make more sense to me that way, the inputs on the tv can be set differently, etc. BUT...is it true that if the player goes through the tv first, that the TV (I have a 2017 LG OLED) doesn't support sending DTS-X audio to the soundbar?


Yup the hdmi arc doesn’t support dtsX at the moment.


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post #262 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 09:43 PM
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Hello. I have a room with size 10' X 15.5'
Will getting the Elite 7.2 DTS-X good enough instead of getting the Ultra 9.2 DTS-X ?

Will the sound from the Elite sound just as good as the Ultra in my smaller room than a bigger room size?

I am thinking that having 2 extra surround speakers putting on the middle two walls would look more cluttered in my small room. Having just the two rear surround speakers would look more clean and pleasant.

So if you guys have my room size, would you get the Elite or the Ultra version ? I wan to get the best immersive sound but balance with cost effectiveness and pleasant look of the room. Also keeping the idea of diminishing return in mind.

Thanks.
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post #263 of 5163 Old 01-15-2018, 09:54 PM
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Hello. I have a room with size 10' X 15.5'
Will getting the Elite 7.2 DTS-X good enough instead of getting the Ultra 9.2 DTS-X?
In a room that small, I think you would probably do fine with the 7.1 Pro DTS:X instead of the 7.2 Elite. Are you really that concerned about evening out bass response across your (probably small) seating area? My family/theater room is 12.5' x 15' and I don't find the bass of my old 7.1 Pro non-DTS:X system a problem. If you're considering the 9.2, do you have sufficient space behind the seating area for rear effects to be meaningful? You'd have to be sitting awfully close up to the screen, but maybe the space works that way. In my space we're viewing across the short (12.5') side of the rectangle and there's just no way to get rear effects without totally messing up the floor plan. If I were buying in my space now, I'd get the 7.1 Pro DTS:X myself.
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post #264 of 5163 Old 01-16-2018, 08:49 AM
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Micarina, thanks for answering my questions

tppytel, how far behind the couch should the rears be? in our great room, where I'm considering upgrading to the 9.2 ultra (or 7.2 Elite) our couch is about a foot away from the rear wall

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post #265 of 5163 Old 01-16-2018, 09:08 AM
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The DTS Ultra 7.2 employs, according to my understanding, different, upgraded drivers than those in the 7.1 Pro.
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post #266 of 5163 Old 01-16-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveMatthewsLover View Post
Interesting. I just came across this on Nakamichi's facebook page. They hosted some blind tests at their booth during CES and to the San Francisco Audiophile Society a few days ago. To be honest, I don't think such an event was necessary because I have used my preordered shockwafe Ultra 9.2 for 2 months now and I am still so happy at how it sounds. Definitely setting the benchmark for the industry for people who love surround sound.

Anyone went to CES 2018 this year and saw this?
I'd prefer to see results from an independently run test than something that was organized by the winner, which is why I did not report on that event.

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post #267 of 5163 Old 01-16-2018, 03:41 PM
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Yes. We need independent tests and reviews for all the soundbars shown at CES.
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post #268 of 5163 Old 01-16-2018, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthJersey View Post
tppytel, how far behind the couch should the rears be? in our great room, where I'm considering upgrading to the 9.2 ultra (or 7.2 Elite) our couch is about a foot away from the rear wall
I'm no expert in surround speaker placement. But my understanding is that the preferred placement for the 7.2 is with the satellites in the rear position. With only a foot of space behind your couch, that won't work - the speakers would be right in peoples' ears. So you'd instead have the sats in the side position, presumably with a little weaker rear effect. I'm not sure if the space behind the couch matters at that point - I don't think the system is getting any effect from bouncing off a rear wall, but I don't really know for sure. With the 9.2, you'd be doing the attached dipole setup with the attached sats in the side position - the least recommended of the three options. But I'd think the rear-facing sat in each attached pair would have enough space to bounce meaningfully behind you (assuming it's a solid wall behind the couch). It seems like there should - in theory - be a slightly stronger 7.x surround effect with the 9.2 system due to having separate drivers handling the side and rear channels. I'm just not sure it's going to be very noticeable in that small a space. And again, I don't think evening out bass response is a big concern in a space that small.

Would the 9.2 Ultra sound noticeably better? Probably. But I think the improvement over the much simpler and cheaper 7.1 system will be greatly reduced in such a small room. Personally, I'd save the money and have fewer cables strung around. But if you're really serious about it, buy both of them and test it out. I'd love to hear the results.
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post #269 of 5163 Old 01-17-2018, 08:05 AM
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tppytel, there is space in the room to move the couch up, so if the rears for the Elite or Ultra were placed on the rear wall, how much space should there be between them and the couch?
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post #270 of 5163 Old 01-17-2018, 10:35 AM
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It's interesting to read the reviews for the Nakamichi on Amazon and Best Buy. These are people who have paid for their soundbars, have apparently received no inducements, and they are highly positive, including one from an audiophile/engineer who, although he faulted the equalization adjustments, and wanted a limiter on the subs, was impressed by the system

Why I expect the Nakamichi to do well in tests is that it has 9.2 discrete channels, and physical speakers to back them up. Virtualized channels cannot trump that. Of course the quality of the drivers is also critical.

All vendors push their own commercial interests, but I think it commendable that Nakamichi is making their systems affordable.

I also appreciate Sennheiser's low key approach in introducing their system, even if only a pre-release prototype.
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Last edited by taichi4; 01-17-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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