Yamaha YAS-207 dialogues and bass problem - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 39 Old 09-11-2017, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Unhappy Yamaha YAS-207 dialogues and bass problem

Hi,

I just got my YAS-207 and I'm seeking help with an issue. They say that dialogues should be crystal-clear and yes, indeed, they're very good. What's wrong is that my soundbar can't seem to control the subwoofer very well when there are people talking and there's little or no background noise. It's pretty obvious and very frustrating to hear that when someone says a sentence which has several words, the woofer kicks in to enhance just some of them. For example, let's assume we have a sentence with 6 words "I like to live in New York" - all would come from the 'regular' speakers and, as an extra, words "live in" would have this deep bass applied.
I tried playing with all options, i.e. presents, bass volume, bass enhancer ON/OFF, dialogues enhancer ON/OFF - I can't find a decent setting. The only acceptable one is to boost subwoofer (+2 / 4) and turn ON bass enhancement which makes the subwoofer work all the time and all words have this deep bass background.

I'm using PS4 and a HTPC connected using HDMI w/ARC / optical toslink. Tried swapping cables, didn't help.
I do have DTS pass-through and I'm trying various sources, like Netflix, high bitrate MKV with DTS and others.
I'm fairly sure the setup is all good, my soundbar has all the right lights flashing and the cables I'm using are all good too.

Any ideas are welcome.
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post #2 of 39 Old 09-11-2017, 10:08 AM
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It is a problem with small sounds bar that use small drivers, which because of size is becoming popular. To use small drivers one has to crossover to the sub in the vocal range, so some of the dialogue will come from the sub and not the sound bar. The best you can do in this scenario is to keep the sub close to the sound bar so it integrates a little better and you don't notice as much that the sound is coming from the sub. A bigger sound bar with larger drivers solves this problem but it often has less aesthetic appeal.
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post #3 of 39 Old 09-12-2017, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks, this basically means there's no point in buying a soundbar unless it's a big fat one... and those usually are expensive as they're high-end models mostly
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post #4 of 39 Old 09-12-2017, 04:05 AM
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There are some cost effective models but most models even the small ones will usually sound better than the TV speakers. I like the 107 better because it was designed to be used without a sub. It has slightly larger drivers, a 3" and a 2 1/8" vs. a two 1.75" on the 207 which allows it to play lower and cover the vocal range. You can add a sub for bass. The Pioneer SB23 has good performance for $50 more than the 207.

Sometimes even the higher priced bars have limitations. Consumers prefer smaller bars and there are simply limitations on how much air a small speaker driver can move. Every time the speaker size doubles it will move greater than 4 times the amount of air and that is needed for lower frequencies. So jumping from a 2" speaker to a 4" speaker is a huge improvement. The same about subwoofers going from a 6" sub to a 12" sub will allow it to play much louder and deeper.
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post #5 of 39 Old 09-12-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you.

Pioneer SB23 seems to have very bad reviews at Amazon.
YAS-107, yes I was considering it but I went with 207 because I like bass. Seems to be a really bad choice for me.

This essentially gets down to going to the shop with own device and a piece of movie and checking the dialogues. Seems like a really big hustle.

I believe this has to do with audio processing, so I should be checking all possible settings

BTW, I had Denon DHT-S514 for like 2 hours and it broke. A quick research showed that some units are faulty and it's a common problem that main speakers start to 'click'.

So this is becoming a journey for me. I just wonder am I that picky or just really unlucky. People just buy soundbars and use them, no issues, right? Even those entry-level Samsung ones which seem to be very popular where I live.

At the moment I'm really sick of soundbars and I'm investigating other options. I don't want to use too much space for amp and speakers and I need BT and a remote so things like EDIFIER R2730DB come to light - but that's another story entirely.
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post #6 of 39 Old 09-12-2017, 10:49 AM
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Most of the bad reviews of the Pioneer seem to be because of poor reliability and not sound quality. IF you get a good one it is a good choice. It has been out a while so hope they fixed any problems or they just have poor quality control. The 107 has a connection for a subwoofer and if you add just about any 8", 10" or 12" sub you will have more bass than the 207. You can find decent small subs for $100-$200. The only problem with the 107 and a sub is the sub is wired. You can use a wireless adapter but that adds to the cost.

If you are willing to go to stereo speakers and place them well, then something like the Edifier will smoke ANY sound bar for sound quality. I have three TV systems in my house and they are all 2.0 or 2.1 systems and working in this industry I could have used a sound bar on any one of them instead. But, I prefer better quality sound and while sound bars are a big improvement over the built in TV speakers they don't compete with decent speaker systems.
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post #7 of 39 Old 09-15-2017, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
It is a problem with small sounds bar that use small drivers, which because of size is becoming popular. To use small drivers one has to crossover to the sub in the vocal range, so some of the dialogue will come from the sub and not the sound bar. The best you can do in this scenario is to keep the sub close to the sound bar so it integrates a little better and you don't notice as much that the sound is coming from the sub. A bigger sound bar with larger drivers solves this problem but it often has less aesthetic appeal.
Hi,

i have the same nasty problem with my YAS-207. Yes, it could be true that due to the small drivers the crossover is within voice range, but this looks more like a design flaw. The crossover should be technically more smooth. If there is a certain bass level e.g. during voice reached, the bass suddenly jumps in. It gives an unsettled feeling. I hope that Yamaha could fix that with a software update soon! Otherwise the soundbar sounds very good and i would like to return it unwillingly...
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post #8 of 39 Old 09-15-2017, 03:35 AM
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It is possible they can adjust the crossover settings to reduce this effect. One thing to check is your sub level to make sure it is not too loud compared to the subwoofer. Play a sine wave tone (signal generator app) at the crossover which is about 180hz and use an SPL/ sound meter app to see how loud it is. Then unplug the sub. if the sound reduces by more than 3db your subwoofer is probably set too high. To adjust it turn down the sub as much as possible with the same test tone then adjust sub level so it comes up only 3db. This should get you in the ballpark. Many prefer more bass but having the sub too loud with this high of crossover might exaggerate this effect.
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post #9 of 39 Old 09-15-2017, 05:13 AM
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I think the tests would not help: When sub level is set to minimum, that means "Bass Extension" off and "Subwoofer" level -4 (complete down), the effect occurs also. Then it depends on overall volume: when very low it happens never, in mid range volume some times (very annoyingly) and when loud not so often, because then subwoofer is involved nearly permanently and could not jump in. You can also set subwoofer level very high, but then the sound has much to much bass, not nice for voice.

So my last hope is that Yamaha could fix that with software update soon, otherwise it must go back :-(
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post #10 of 39 Old 09-15-2017, 08:30 AM
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Although possible, I doubt it will be fixed with a firmware update.
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post #11 of 39 Old 09-20-2017, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Although possible, I doubt it will be fixed with a firmware update.
It cannot be fixed with a firmware update according to Yamaha.

I had the same issue and received the following response from Yamaha:

"The sub-woofer on the YAS207 crosses in at 180Hz. To place this in context the YSP1600 and YSP2700 cross in at 500Hz. The YSP5600 ranges from 80Hz to 120Hz and the older YAS207 (being the YAS203) crossed in at 150Hz.

Unfortunately, because the drivers have been engineered to work within the parameters of specific frequencies, it's not possible to just release a firmware to change it. The cross over point is more defined by the actual hardware (speaker drivers being used) and not software."

I ended up returning this soundbar and got myself a JBL SB450 which is great!!
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post #12 of 39 Old 09-20-2017, 10:55 PM
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Thanks for the follow up! It is because they use small drivers and problems like these arise with small drivers that can not go low enough to crossover to the sub at a reasonable frequency. They could make the crossover lower but then it would leave a gap in the frequency range, I have seen other systems do that. The 203 uses drivers close to the size of the JBL 450. Where I work they carry Yamaha and at the low end of their price scale I like the 107 paired with an inexpensive sub over the 203 or 207 for about the same price.

Besides the JBL being able to crossover a little lower I bet you noticed an improvement in the bass as well. The jump to an 8" sub from a 6" inch should be very noticeable. I am sure you will get a lot of enjoyment from it.
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post #13 of 39 Old 09-21-2017, 01:45 AM
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The JBL gets REALLY loud and the bigger sub definitely helps in the bass department ?
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post #14 of 39 Old 10-22-2017, 01:57 AM
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Well this thread is a godsend in that none of the reviews picked up on this issue. The 207 was going to be my go to pick if my Vizio went kaput.

My requirements for a soundbar are as follows: aesthetically pleasing (the 207 is the first Yamaha sound bar that I know that doesn't have cheap plastic somewhere on it), internal power source (I hate power bricks), a wireless subwoofer (none of the stand alone sound bars seem to have sufficient bass), not overly expensive (I don't want to feel like too much of a chump paying for a form factor with limitations), simplicity, and of course excellent sound quality (for a sound bar less than $500).

It seems I'm best staying with what I have, the Vizio SB4051-C0. I don't utilize the satellite speakers and after a couple of adjustments with the sub the crossover is seamless. They may be budget sound bars but the material quality (referring to the design and not the actual audio components) embarrasses much more expensive sound bars. I guess I'll keep an eye on the Vizio SP4031-D5/SB4531-D5 3.1 soundbars.

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post #15 of 39 Old 11-15-2017, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altembas View Post
Hi,

I just got my YAS-207 and I'm seeking help with an issue. They say that dialogues should be crystal-clear and yes, indeed, they're very good. What's wrong is that my soundbar can't seem to control the subwoofer very well when there are people talking and there's little or no background noise. It's pretty obvious and very frustrating to hear that when someone says a sentence which has several words, the woofer kicks in to enhance just some of them. For example, let's assume we have a sentence with 6 words "I like to live in New York" - all would come from the 'regular' speakers and, as an extra, words "live in" would have this deep bass applied.
I tried playing with all options, i.e. presents, bass volume, bass enhancer ON/OFF, dialogues enhancer ON/OFF - I can't find a decent setting. The only acceptable one is to boost subwoofer (+2 / 4) and turn ON bass enhancement which makes the subwoofer work all the time and all words have this deep bass background.

I'm using PS4 and a HTPC connected using HDMI w/ARC / optical toslink. Tried swapping cables, didn't help.
I do have DTS pass-through and I'm trying various sources, like Netflix, high bitrate MKV with DTS and others.
I'm fairly sure the setup is all good, my soundbar has all the right lights flashing and the cables I'm using are all good too.

Any ideas are welcome.
To the OP and to the other person who returned the Yamaha and got a JBL SB450:

I had the JBL first, loved it, but the sound processing board stopped working after 12 months of use, and I got my money back. Now I bought the Yamaha for almost half the price.

The 2 soundbars have the same "bass on voice only" problem. But with the JBL you could change the crossover frequency (frequency where the sub kicks in). I had it on 30-40% and the problem wouldn't be so noticeable.

With Yamaha, you cannot do that, but I found some ways to make it less noticeable. First of all, use the app. On it, while watching TV shows or movies, use the TV or Movie modes. Then, I had the subwoofer volume set to -1 or -2, switched the bass effect to ON (which I think lowers the crossover fq) and also the clear voice mode to ON (which I think enhances the mid frequencies).

With that, I think I was able to have the subwoofer ON during most of the "dialogue-only" parts.

Please feel free to comment if there are better ways or ideas.

I really don't think a FW update would change this and probably this problem will be common with these kinds of soundbars.
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post #16 of 39 Old 11-24-2017, 05:19 PM
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I just got one of these today and found this thread. Watching basketball all day and this kept happening with the announcers...bass dropping in and out. It was really annoying, might have to return for something else.
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post #17 of 39 Old 12-25-2017, 03:32 PM
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Problem with Yamaha yas-207

I have just gotten a new Yamaha Yas-207 system. The sound bar comes on and works fine. Every time I try to turn on or pair the woofer the red standby light blinks. Now it starts as soon as I plug in the woofer. Is there a fix for this I can do or does it need to be returned?
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post #18 of 39 Old 02-15-2018, 07:52 AM
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Unhappy Connection to Sub Issue

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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I have just gotten a new Yamaha Yas-207 system. The sound bar comes on and works fine. Every time I try to turn on or pair the woofer the red standby light blinks. Now it starts as soon as I plug in the woofer. Is there a fix for this I can do or does it need to be returned?
I'm having this issue to, I accidentally pressed the pairing button while moving the sub position slightly and now the standby light blinks red constantly with no sub signal being received. Cant find anything online other than this post with the same issue, did you get it resolved??
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YAS-702 Yamaha Sub Pairing Issue with Flashing Red Standby Light

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Originally Posted by Dougsmoog View Post
I'm having this issue to, I accidentally pressed the pairing button while moving the sub position slightly and now the standby light blinks red constantly with no sub signal being received. Cant find anything online other than this post with the same issue, did you get it resolved??
Hello, I phoned the Yamaha support line and all I needed to do was power off the soundbar with the touch pad on the front then press the minus button on the sub volume on the remote until a flashing light appears on the soundbar. It then paired with the sub without any issues. Happy days...
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post #20 of 39 Old 11-06-2018, 11:59 PM
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Hello people.

I am researching to purchase budget friendly soundbar and I like YAS-207 and I would like to ask regarding the crossover issue. This issue was fixed with the update or did you know if they fixed the issue with different manufacturing version?
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post #21 of 39 Old 11-07-2018, 03:57 AM
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You can't fix small drivers with a firmware fix. While it is possible to change a crossover via firmware, it is not possible make larger speakers via firmware. The crossover is based on the capability of the speakers. For a smaller speaker to play lower you have to limit its volume or you will increase distortion.
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post #22 of 39 Old 11-07-2018, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
You can't fix small drivers with a firmware fix. While it is possible to change a crossover via firmware, it is not possible make larger speakers via firmware. The crossover is based on the capability of the speakers. For a smaller speaker to play lower you have to limit its volume or you will increase distortion.
This issue is a reason not to buy this product?
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post #23 of 39 Old 11-07-2018, 05:38 AM
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If you keep the sub very near the sound bar you might not notice the issue. Otherwise I would get the 107 or newer 108 with an external sub for about the same price and you will get better sound. The sub is wired however so if you need a wireless sub you would have to get a wireless adapter as well.
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post #24 of 39 Old 11-08-2018, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
If you keep the sub very near the sound bar you might not notice the issue. Otherwise I would get the 107 or newer 108 with an external sub for about the same price and you will get better sound. The sub is wired however so if you need a wireless sub you would have to get a wireless adapter as well.
thank you for your information.

The 107 & 108 has better generall sound quality and features than 207? The reason that you give better rate to 107 & 108 is due to woofer issue ?
If we place together 207, 107 & 108 without sub which of the three will be better ?
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post #25 of 39 Old 11-08-2018, 01:32 AM
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Yamaha YAS-108 is not available on Europe.

What about MusicCast YAS-306 ?
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post #26 of 39 Old 11-08-2018, 03:17 AM
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We don't have the 306 in the states but looking at the spes it appears to be similar to the old YAS-105 with musicast built in. That would work fine and it is essentially the same as the 108 without HDMI.
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post #27 of 39 Old 11-08-2018, 03:31 AM
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ok thanks
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post #28 of 39 Old 11-09-2018, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StretchyPants123 View Post
It cannot be fixed with a firmware update according to Yamaha.

I had the same issue and received the following response from Yamaha:

"The sub-woofer on the YAS207 crosses in at 180Hz. To place this in context the YSP1600 and YSP2700 cross in at 500Hz. The YSP5600 ranges from 80Hz to 120Hz and the older YAS207 (being the YAS203) crossed in at 150Hz.

Unfortunately, because the drivers have been engineered to work within the parameters of specific frequencies, it's not possible to just release a firmware to change it. The cross over point is more defined by the actual hardware (speaker drivers being used) and not software."

I ended up returning this soundbar and got myself a JBL SB450 which is great!!

Just to make a pedantic note here... the YSP1600 beam drivers cross over to the soundbars built-in woofers at 500Hz, but the woofers go well lower.
The YSP2700 on the other hand doesn't have built in woofers, so it crosses over all the way up at 500Hz.
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post #29 of 39 Old 11-12-2018, 12:51 PM
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Hello again

Some questions:

1) Can I change the rotation of yas-207 from Vertical to Horizontal and place it under my sofa? My sofa is 20cm and wireless sub is 18cm. I have a small issue with the space ( funny question anw)
2) In case i purchase yas-107 and buy woofer and wireless transmiter I will not have the cross over issue in that case and why? Can you recommend me one sub and wireless transmitter please?
3) They released Music Cast bar 400 with new wireless sub but the price is too much... I didn't read anywhere yet for cross over issue.
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/product...400/index.html
4) Sony released HT-X9000F which is another option for 200 euro extra and I can get dolby atmos.
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sou...rds_v2_default
Thanks.

Last edited by Andreas Shiatis; 11-13-2018 at 02:04 AM.
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post #30 of 39 Old 11-13-2018, 03:30 AM
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1) I assume you mean the 207 sub😁 yes you can place it horizontally

2) No you won't have the problem with crossover because the 107 uses larger 3" drivers (Yanaha calls them built in subwoofers, laugh-cough-choke) compared to the 207 which uses smaller drivers and a sub. The 207 also does not have tweeters so it doesn't do highs as well either. The 107 can be used without a sub but will not have as good bass without it. When you add a sub to the 107 you get a much better system. You do need a sub with a crossover setting (knob) because the crossovet is not built into the 107. Dayton Sub-100 with 10" woofer will destroy the bass of the 207's wimpy sub. Dayton also makes wireless adapters. This sub and wireless adapter will be a little more expensive than a basic cube sub that can be wired but still under $200 for them both. So less than a $100 more than the 207 system but worth it.

3) The 400 uses a higher crossover too like the 207 and 2700 but not as bad at 160hz. I would keep the sub near the sound bar with any of these sound bars with higher crossovers so you won't notice this issue. Placing the sub under or near your sofa across the room would make me look for a sound bar that has a lower crossover below 125hz and preferably below 100hz.

4) Atmos is a nice feature but these also use smaller drivers requiring higher crossovers. You would have to decide if Atmos is worth trading off sound quality.
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