Using an Oppo to add a(nother) subwoofer to a soundbar - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 62Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 143 Old 03-11-2020, 07:27 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Well you kind of have to keep up that near 40 hz bump.
That’s probably from me setting the Samsung sub to +6.

I’ll see what things sound like with some leveling and just a slight rise on the low end.

Gotta wait for the wife to be out of the house. She can’t deal with all the tweaks and tests, haha.
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 143 Old 03-11-2020, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
That’s probably from me setting the Samsung sub to +6.

I’ll see what things sound like with some leveling and just a slight rise on the low end.

Gotta wait for the wife to be out of the house. She can’t deal with all the tweaks and tests, haha.
One thing I noticed when "youthman" testing my pb12's for maximum output was that even quite a bit before max output all sorts of things were rattling in the room, so I've been meaning to kind of track these down and see if they can be contained. Sounds like your first experience with the PB12 nasty was akin to the end of Krypton so I'm sure your wife would enjoy that test particulary.


Yeah for me I was on -6 db for Atmos and then to control the blasted K950 I had to plug its port and still not enough and my next step was to -12! You might be able to cut the sub and bring up your 150 hz EQ setting to compensate some.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #123 of 143 Old 03-12-2020, 06:44 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Here’s the lastest after some tweaks.
Click image for larger version

Name:	final.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	74.0 KB
ID:	2696996

Oppo crossover at 120hz, LFE trim at -3db, volume at 80.

SVS phase 8 clicks back from 180, crossover at 85hz, gain 4 clicks back from 12:00.

N950 150 equalizer -3, sub +6, volume at 18.

I adjusted phase to smooth out the 30-50 range. It went from a peak to a dip at 40hz with slight adjustment either way on the control.

SVS
Click image for larger version

Name:	svs.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	70.8 KB
ID:	2697016

N950
Click image for larger version

Name:	N950.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	73.9 KB
ID:	2697028

SVS and N950
Click image for larger version

Name:	svs & n950.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	82.5 KB
ID:	2697018

Final and N950
Click image for larger version

Name:	final & n950.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	80.6 KB
ID:	2697020

Final and SVS
Click image for larger version

Name:	final & svs.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	79.7 KB
ID:	2697022

All 3 together
Click image for larger version

Name:	all.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	2697024
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #124 of 143 Old 03-13-2020, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Here’s the lastest after some tweaks.
....
All 3 together
Attachment 2697024
That is pretty good. Its a matter of how loud you listen. If like me you crank up to reference levels all the time perhaps even more of a bass diet is worth working with, but if you don't typically listen full tilt then most have a "house" curve and yours looks pretty good. To my mind your average response in the upper frequencies is like 78 db and you are 87 db at 24 hz or something. I like your general shape in the bass curve especially in the low frequencies:
1. It is nuts that you are ruler flat to 18 hz and down -3db at 16hz. I'd probably have to go pb4000 I suspect in my room to get a similar curve.
2. Great job also not having any slow dip from 20-40hz. If your overall bass level is not overblown for your listening level that should actually allow you to hear much better high frequencies (yeah I'm talking over 5000 hz); just an affect with the ears and will make your sound much more "high end"
3. Bass looks pretty smooth, please check your smoothing and you should have none for the bass!
4. You can get smoother bass with minidsp, but of course it will only affect the SVS, but it would allow you to wag the dog from 20-40hz where the umik-1 could easily be off a couple db and tune to taste. That is more electronics in the path so not a slam dunk that you'll get an overall gain. If your particular mike is measuring 2 db weak at 20hz then waging the dogs tail down may give you the flatter low bass. Its another $100 for the minidsp, but I think when you consider your shakers it may be an obvious choice since you already have umik-1 and rew going.



My suggestion is to now start tuning by ear and maybe +5 on Samsung sub will sound better (and it has the most jagged response) and of course dialing in the SVS level with your Oppo volume key. I don't think dual SVS will give you a radically smoother bass as you seem to have found a way to get 90% of the dual sub benefit with your SVS dip at 32hz being largely ameliorated. The rest is pretty good. You can adjust the crossover frequency by ear of course and try different slopes too. Plus your upper limit in Oppo at 150hz should be adjusted by ear.


If you want a reference for reference levels this is the one (Amazon US has as well, but about $30 delivered):
https://www.amazon.de/Khatia-Buniati...4126900&sr=8-1


Dolby themselves did this recording and its of course all acoustic instruments in a real space recorded live. I use this for my hand tweaking and far better than any movie I've tried no matter how much I like the movie. I just listen for the full range sound including the highs and really added a nice sophistication to my sound when adjusting minidsp 0.1 db this way and that and tweaking Q. I would not make the mistake of tuning just for bass. This is all about the integrate whole of the sound and using the force so to speak and just choosing the setting that sounds best overall.


Suspiria 1977 was just pure magic on my system last night.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 03-13-2020 at 12:24 PM.
meles is offline  
post #125 of 143 Old 03-14-2020, 08:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
@meles Thanks for the feedback and advice. I’ll try to do some more tweaking.

Though I tend not to listen at super high levels, I might want to flatten things out just a tiny bit more.

The ear pressure from gunshots and crashes seem little high compared to the rest of the bass range. Less ear pressurization and more chest thump would be ideal.

Very interesting so far!
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #126 of 143 Old 03-14-2020, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
@meles Thanks for the feedback and advice. I’ll try to do some more tweaking.

Though I tend not to listen at super high levels, I might want to flatten things out just a tiny bit more.

The ear pressure from gunshots and crashes seem little high compared to the rest of the bass range. Less ear pressurization and more chest thump would be ideal.

Very interesting so far!
I've never really noticed ear pressurization. Surprised your chest thump is not enough. You may want to baseline your original setup and compare the graphs.


I have made two configurations in minidsp (subs in exact same spot). The one was imparting more air and magic than the smoother response so I compared the two to try to figure out what might be the causes and then tweaked by ear in those ranges again. (My guess is overall level was the culprit and raised the SVS's 0.3 db in minidsp). You might gain something from such a comparison. I've seen claims for chest thumping bass is at 40hz, but here is my original curve:

The red curve is Atmos upmixing with sub on -6 (now I'm -12 plus moved out of corner) and the other is DTS upmixed via Sports mode on +6. My guess is chest thump is much higher and around 70 hz with our type of sub. Dunkirk upmixed to Atmos is quite egregious for general bass level so I'm going to have to check that out soon, but I may want to rent disc again rather than play the version on Vudu.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #127 of 143 Old 03-14-2020, 12:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I've never really noticed ear pressurization.
[...]
I've seen claims for chest thumping bass is at 40hz, but here is my original curve:
[...]
The red curve is Atmos upmixing with sub on -6 (now I'm -12 plus moved out of corner) and the other is DTS upmixed via Sports mode on +6. My guess is chest thump is much higher and around 70 hz with our type of sub.
This article has some good info.
https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...ation-of-sound

The ear pressurization I get is during the softer “whomp” part of bass sounds like mortars, distant explosions, “thuds”, and some types of gunshots. I’m guessing it might be from the lowest bass frequencies.

I’ve seen discussions regarding 40hz vs. higher also. Seems like they might be two or more different types of things going on. Could be resonant frequency of the thoracic cavity, internal pressurization, and/or surface mechanoreceptors. If so, bumping up the last two would be about right for me.

Putting the two together leans toward leveling out the bass curve so there’s a bit more in the mid to high vs. the low. Also explains why I had the good kick with the N950 maxed out on 150hz and up behind the couch.
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500

Last edited by ntxoa; 03-14-2020 at 12:24 PM.
ntxoa is online now  
post #128 of 143 Old 03-14-2020, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
This article has some good info.
https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...ation-of-sound

The ear pressurization I get is during the softer “whomp” part of bass sounds like mortars, distant explosions, “thuds”, and some types of gunshots. I’m guessing it might be from the lowest bass frequencies.

I’ve seen discussions regarding 40hz vs. higher also. Seems like they might be two or more different types of things going on. Could be resonant frequency of the thoracic cavity, internal pressurization, and/or surface mechanoreceptors. If so, bumping up the last two would be about right for me.

Putting the two together leans toward leveling out the bass curve so there’s a bit more in the mid to high vs. the low. Also explains why I had the good kick with the N950 maxed out on 150hz and up behind the couch.
Well that home theater guru apparently a weight lifting melon head as he says chest vibration at 40 hz. Audioholics does not play around and agree with them saying chest punch 100 hz+ and there owns test say "the chest area was shown to be sensitive to mid-bass sound, especially at the 50 Hz and 63 Hz tones." That lines up with my system.


I'm not sure I want the chest thumping bass back as overall the sound is now magnitudes better with the SVS flat sound, but eagerly awaiting to see if you can have your cake and eat it too.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #129 of 143 Old 03-16-2020, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Trying this out for a while.

Click image for larger version

Name:	final.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	72.5 KB
ID:	2698634

Oppo
x/o 120
sw trim -3db
vol 80

SVS
ph -4
svs x/o disabled
gain 12:00 -4

N950
150 +2
sw +3
vol 18
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #130 of 143 Old 03-16-2020, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Trying this out for a while.

Attachment 2698634

Oppo
x/o 120
sw trim -3db
vol 80

SVS
ph -4
svs x/o disabled
gain 12:00 -4

N950
150 +2
sw +3
vol 18
It stinks for me right now as I have no hdmi out from my laptop so I'd have to borrow one again to retest, but I'd like to try moving my TV and bar forward to see if I can improve my response around 150 hz. Your dip is just over 130hz and that is pretty good given the design.


On the crossover front I'm inverting phase and you 18db one in minidsp. 12 db is very shallow. Here are the sound&vision anechoic k950 measurements:

The key takeaways to me are that are dips up through about 500hz are likely room modes and the Samsung crossover is at least 24db per octave. The crossover is at 130 hz which is the -6db point for the two responses. That's lower than what I've been saying.



They must have really fixed the gain on your unit. My Oppo is set at +4 and minidsp +4-5 db. PB12's are set at 12:30 for gain and no crossover or phase. On some stuff I end up with my volume on 100 for the K950 and then I have Oppo's volume for SVS on 85. I think if I cut the SVS gain setting another notch the difference just gets to close. SVS by the way (Ed Mullen) is more concerned about users clipping the input of their subwoofers and would rather most don't push the input signal as I've done and run the gain up higher on the SVS. Youtuber Subwoofer101 concurs and claims you lose dynamics so better to have the SVS high and trim everything else down. I'm keeping a blind eye to their device, but for general noise performance its generally best to do the opposite and have your volume lower at the final gain control as you are essentially turning down the noise of the components upstream. I need to measure and play with the settings so I can capture the two extremes with levels with .05db of each other. Prospective differences:
1. Greater macrodynamics the subwoofer101 way
2. Perhaps finer detail the lowest noise way


I have the technology to do this right so need to, plus need to address delay issues.



VLC on my fire cube is playing 4K hdr (something the Xbox won't do) and I have two choices:
1. M2TS file playback does not allow rew/ffw and if Fire Cube goes to sleep you get to start the movie over if you pause it.
2. MKV 4K HDR playback and Independence day had massive audio delay while M2TS perfect


In my setup I have a backdoor trick to upmix DTS and DTS-X and a lot of things on the Fire Cube to DD+ Atmos so this 4K HDR playback is a major find for me. FireCube also has Plex (which is a pia to setup) and Plex has been getting its ID10T file on as the 4k HDR playback is currently broken (fixed in beta I heard). Long term I want to try Plex once they have this officially fixed and see if those choice/problems above go way and get the slickest interface in movie serving.


I had some voice issues with Independence day with some basso nova voices and played around with my Oppo settings which are the polar opposite of your original ones:
1. Oppo xover set at 250 hz (using the minidsp 18db xover at 80 hz)
2. Oppo speakers on small so bass from below 250 hz passed onto subwoofer from all the other channels
3. For Atmos K950 sub on -12, for DTS with sports upmixing +6 db matches the subwoofer levels


I tried setting to large in the Oppo so SVS just doing LFE and I hated the sound of that as the room ambience just fell apart for me. I tried 150 hz xover, I tried just doing center on large or the front 3 and to no avail. I did find a way to help my low voice problem by putting the oppo crossover to 200 hz (-3 db where I have a peak rather than past the peak at 250 hz. I then put my 150 hz EQ setting on Samsung up from +1 to +2. Thise helped with the voice without killing too much of my hall sound and rosin on the bow. I've yet to really test this setting with other material, but it seems promising. Of course this is different for you since you are only 12db per octave so for your sub you are +6 db stronger at 160 hz than my setup. (minidsp calling)


Looking at your response the biggest difference is how strong you are at 200hz let alone the peak at 150. I had to work to contain my bump at 200hz. Have you tried setting the Oppo to 80hz and the SVS at 80 hz to jump to a 24 db per octave combined crossover? You might also move the xover to 100hz with this to put the -6db on the peak at 100hz. My hope would be this would tamp down the bulge at 200hz a db and then also boost you a db to two around 70-80 hz.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #131 of 143 Old 03-16-2020, 06:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I need to measure and play with the settings so I can capture the two extremes with levels with .05db of each other. Prospective differences:
1. Greater macrodynamics the subwoofer101 way
2. Perhaps finer detail the lowest noise way
[...]
Looking at your response the biggest difference is how strong you are at 200hz let alone the peak at 150. I had to work to contain my bump at 200hz. Have you tried setting the Oppo to 80hz and the SVS at 80 hz to jump to a 24 db per octave combined crossover? You might also move the xover to 100hz with this to put the -6db on the peak at 100hz. My hope would be this would tamp down the bulge at 200hz a db and then also boost you a db to two around 70-80 hz.
Looks like I have some more homework. Should be interesting
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #132 of 143 Old 03-16-2020, 11:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Same as last one except N950 sub at +6 to fill in a little from 60-70.
Click image for larger version

Name:	sw +6.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	77.1 KB
ID:	2698806

This one with Oppo x/o at 80.
Click image for larger version

Name:	xo 80.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	2698808

Oppo and SVS x/o both at 80.
Click image for larger version

Name:	xo 80 80.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	77.1 KB
ID:	2698810

Oppo at 100 and SVS x/o disabled.
Click image for larger version

Name:	xo 100.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	76.2 KB
ID:	2698812

Oppo at 110.
Click image for larger version

Name:	xo 110.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	74.7 KB
ID:	2698814

Oppo at x/o 110 and -6db gain. SVS gain at 12:00. Don’t think that changes the graph compared to last one. Will try out some movies when the wife is out.
Click image for larger version

Name:	xo 110 gain -6 12n.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	74.9 KB
ID:	2698816
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #133 of 143 Old 03-18-2020, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Oppo and SVS x/o both at 80.
Attachment 2698810
I like this one the best (combined xover at 80 hz for -6db down) except that the 37 hz bump is a bit robust. I'd vote for more SVS output and less from the Sammy sub to get better low, low bass and ameliorate the 37 hz bump. I don't like the 150 hz bump so maybe adjust soundbar/tv placement? Move soundbar forward with TV perhaps if not wall mount for greater effective screen size? If soundbar placement is locked down then I'd vote for turning 150 EQ down to tame the 160 hz bump and 200 hz to boot. You should notice with your testing that the 150 EQ has 0.0 impact on the Sammy subwoofer, it will just tame the robust 160-200hz range. I think if you knock down this upper bass bump then you'll hear more in the 70 hz range and be able to play a bit louder overall with this tamed by 3 db or more. I also think you put both on 100 hz to massage up your 70 hz range a touch and tamp down the bump at 100 hz a bit more.


You might beg the wife to wear some ear plugs plus maybe sealed headphones or ear protection for heavy machinery so you can test and play some. You're going to be at home a lot with more time to play with Corona thing and she will too so would be nice to have solution. I also think that if you have much smoother response with no great excesses that your fatigue factor will be less and she might be able to enjoy the system more. Might be a good idea to coax her into judging some of your results.


I have a lot more low bass shaking than before, but I'm not so sure that it really is all that more except maybe around 18-24hz. The reality is I've tamped down a mountain of bass from 30-100hz which means a much more cleaner sound and hopefully the neighborhood isn't really noticing the increase in low, low bass that is still no where near the magnitude of my old huge bump. I have an extremely impressive, less fatiguing sound, and with smoother response less fear of neighborhood complaints.


I was just thinking about youtuber Youthman who loves his bass and keeps chasing bigger and bigger subs. My room is 3700 cubic feet which is large. His is just 2500 cubic feet which is medium. I have a friend over 5000 cubic feet which is extreme. Just one PB12-NSD is rated to handle a large room like mine so I'm very comfortable with two for smoother bass and more headroom. You are like a pig in mud getting down to 16 hz nearly. (5hz lower than me). Youthman is starting to play with minidsp I believe, but the guy is going beyond dual SVS PB16 ultras. I wonder if he's just cork sniffing various response curves and if he got the same response from minidsp he'd be better off and have a whole lot more money in his pocket. By Audioholics standards he's beyond overkill. Bigger drivers are invariable less nimble than smallers so 12 inch drivers are really quite nice.



You seem to have all the tools in place for incredible bass. Near dual sub performance down to 16hz (I say you go all out with minidsp HD for ten parametric EQ for your single SVS so you can maximally massage its response for smoothing versus the untamed Samsung.) You also are doing shakers, etc. for more effective and potentially correct subsonic bass impact at the listening seat and here again one wonder is minidsp can tune the experience to perfection. Its going to take a lot of work due to the Samsung sub being off the table for minidsp, but so much potential. I'm envious because I think in my room to get flat down to 16 hz is going to take some change. PB2000pro maybe by me a few hz. I have a long term plan for 4 HSU VTF-2 in 1 port mode for home theater and sealed for two channel audio (HSU has analog EQ and no dsp to minimize delay for integration with my vacuum tube LP system), I think that gets me there with ruler flat bass for stereo crossed over at 80 hz at only 6 db per octave which I think would be unprecedented stereo performance. With four subwoofers and minidsp I should be able to match your in room performance not counting the shakers.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #134 of 143 Old 03-19-2020, 09:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I like this one the best (combined xover at 80 hz for -6db down) except that the 37 hz bump is a bit robust. I'd vote for more SVS output and less from the Sammy sub to get better low, low bass and ameliorate the 37 hz bump. I don't like the 150 hz bump so maybe adjust soundbar/tv placement? Move soundbar forward with TV perhaps if not wall mount for greater effective screen size? If soundbar placement is locked down then I'd vote for turning 150 EQ down to tame the 160 hz bump and 200 hz to boot. You should notice with your testing that the 150 EQ has 0.0 impact on the Sammy subwoofer, it will just tame the robust 160-200hz range. I think if you knock down this upper bass bump then you'll hear more in the 70 hz range and be able to play a bit louder overall with this tamed by 3 db or more. I also think you put both on 100 hz to massage up your 70 hz range a touch and tamp down the bump at 100 hz a bit more.
So it would be better to have the ~100-200 hz range down closer to 75-80 db level, and the lower bass around 80-85 db?

I think I am getting room gains at 17 and 37 hz due to the open floor plan ~14x33’. The 37 hz might be tricky.

TV and sound bar are in front of the fireplace. I’m 9’ away, but it’s an 86” screen. Not much room to move stuff.

Will play around some more, but starting to lose track of settings. Too many notes, haha.

Also I just moved the Samsung sub back behind the couch again for a bunch of tests. I get a lot of detailed tactile feedback that way compared to barely any with the sub in a front corner.

Graphs have not been as smooth as the others, but still have tweaking to do. I did drop the sub to -6 and the 150 to 0 with this arrangement. The Atmos demo for Unbroken was amazing with this.
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #135 of 143 Old 03-20-2020, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
So it would be better to have the ~100-200 hz range down closer to 75-80 db level, and the lower bass around 80-85 db?

I think I am getting room gains at 17 and 37 hz due to the open floor plan ~14x33’. The 37 hz might be tricky.

TV and sound bar are in front of the fireplace. I’m 9’ away, but it’s an 86” screen. Not much room to move stuff.

Will play around some more, but starting to lose track of settings. Too many notes, haha.

Also I just moved the Samsung sub back behind the couch again for a bunch of tests. I get a lot of detailed tactile feedback that way compared to barely any with the sub in a front corner.

Graphs have not been as smooth as the others, but still have tweaking to do. I did drop the sub to -6 and the 150 to 0 with this arrangement. The Atmos demo for Unbroken was amazing with this.
Sounds good.


Was using my Fire Cube to upmix DTS-X to Atmos (Battleship) and I think Dolby might be guilty of deliberately sabotaging the sound with thin bass. Anyway this allowed me to turn up the Sammy Sub to -6 and above where there are 1 db increments. Was toying around with that setting with Despicable Me 3 with the music and I like a little more beat on the upper bass bone. I'm still due to fool around with that, but in short it makes me think that my -12db setting is on the lean side, so its very much by ear. You are way ahead of me with measuring the whole thing full range with all the subs, so I think you can do things by ear. I'm going to try to get my best DTS-X settings for the Fire Cube by ear and see what happens. I doubt I'll adjust the SVS for this as I'm pretty confident I'm just moving the whole Sammy sub level up and down (they should blend the same with the right volumes). It should be very interesting with the whole voices through subs plus a little more toe tapping bass with music around 80 hz. Please tell me how I can achieve output between my -6 and -12 setting.


Edit: your room is much bigger than I imagined. With 9 foot ceilings that would be 4200 cubic feet. All the more amazing your bass response and levels. If you really want to get down to business just plug the Sammy's port; that will knock the 37hz bump down by 6 db.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 03-20-2020 at 02:06 PM.
meles is offline  
post #136 of 143 Old 03-22-2020, 01:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Please tell me how I can achieve output between my -6 and -12 setting.

Edit: your room is much bigger than I imagined. With 9 foot ceilings that would be 4200 cubic feet. All the more amazing your bass response and levels. If you really want to get down to business just plug the Sammy's port; that will knock the 37hz bump down by 6 db.
Did you stuff the sub port with closed cell foam? How about open cell foam to let a little more air through?

The open floor plan for the main area of the house is a wide and shallow 14’ x 33’ U shape. The tv area is the left leg of the U at 14’ deep and 17’ across. The dining room is the right leg of the U at 14’ deep and 10’ across. The mouth of the U is an entry way at 4’ deep and 6’ across.

The bass measurements are from the main listening position in the 14’ x 17’ tv area. The only bass that gets over or past to the other side are the deep bass resonances that annoy the wife. It’s not even the sound that she hates. She says the LFE makes the inside of her stomach and chest shake. She’s on the tiny side, so I guess that could happen.

That made me rethink the N950 sub placement.

In my case, I only need to optimize audio for one seat in the house. So the typical recommendation to space the subs apart diagonally might not be necessary.

Wife hates tactile LFE, and I’m all for it. So the current test is turning down the N950 sub, and putting it right behind my seat. That way I get all the LFE to myself, haha.

Latest measurements look like this.

Click image for larger version

Name:	final.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	2700702

I was able to take down the 150 and 200 a little. Couldn’t get the below 100 hz any flatter. But I think the peaks at 55 and 90 are helping with the gut and chest punch though.

Really nice tactile with this. When Furiosa rumbles past in the War Rig, and when K shoots his gun in Bladerunner, the LFE is about right. Not over exaggerated, and the pictures on the dining room wall don’t shake now.

Settings are:

N950
sw -12
150 -3
300 +1

Oppo
xo 90
lfe trim -6db

SVS
phase -20 clicks back from 180
xo disabled
gain 12:00

Next experiment is to move the N950 sub away from the couch to the back wall. Maybe letting the bass out and turning it up a bit can even out the dips and still provide tactile feedback.
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500

Last edited by ntxoa; 03-22-2020 at 01:26 PM.
ntxoa is online now  
post #137 of 143 Old 03-22-2020, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Did you stuff the sub port with closed cell foam? How about open cell foam to let a little more air through?

The open floor plan for the main area of the house is a wide and shallow 14’ x 33’ U shape. The tv area is the left leg of the U at 14’ deep and 17’ across. The dining room is the right leg of the U at 14’ deep and 10’ across. The mouth of the U is an entry way at 4’ deep and 6’ across.

The bass measurements are from the main listening position in the 14’ x 17’ tv area. The only bass that gets over or past to the other side are the deep bass resonances that annoy the wife. It’s not even the sound that she hates. She says the LFE makes the inside of her stomach and chest shake. She’s on the tiny side, so I guess that could happen.

That made me rethink the N950 sub placement.

In my case, I only need to optimize audio for one seat in the house. So the typical recommendation to space the subs apart diagonally might not be necessary.

Wife hates tactile LFE, and I’m all for it. So the current test is turning down the N950 sub, and putting it right behind my seat. That way I get all the LFE to myself, haha.

Latest measurements look like this.

Attachment 2700702

I was able to take down the 150 and 200 a little. Couldn’t get the below 100 hz any flatter. But I think the peaks at 55 and 90 are helping with the gut and chest punch though.

Really nice tactile with this. When Furiosa rumbles past in the War Rig, and when K shoots his gun in Bladerunner, the LFE is about right. Not over exaggerated, and the pictures on the dining room wall don’t shake now.

Settings are:

N950
sw -12
150 -3
300 +1

Oppo
xo 90
lfe trim -6db

SVS
phase -20 clicks back from 180
xo disabled
gain 12:00

Next experiment is to move the N950 sub away from the couch to the back wall. Maybe letting the bass out and turning it up a bit can even out the dips and still provide tactile feedback.
You want to stop all air flow with plugging the port. I think you'll be safe with Samsung sub set on -12 or even -6. Plugging the port will crush the Samsung by -6db and that will tail off by 80hz. You'll probably have to turn the SVS up. Frankly I'd fork out the $100 for a minidsp, $200 for the HD unit if you want more delay (80 vs 9 ms so a big difference.) I would strongly recommend the $100 minidsp. I was actually kerplunking around on youtube on my minimally delayed fire cube and I had to remove all delay to match the moving around and would like to have removed more. Still in the early stages of testing and far from definitive. the minidsp has 1 ms of latency (delay really that you can't get rid of) and the minidsp HD around 3 ms.


Maybe you can rearrange the wife's "listening position" so she's in more of a null?


I'd also listen to more full range material that is not bass heavy when testing. As you tune the bass you don't want to drown out the rest of the spectrum and so smoother bass will minimize that drowning out and disturb your wife less.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #138 of 143 Old 03-23-2020, 07:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
You'll probably have to turn the SVS up. Frankly I'd fork out the $100 for a minidsp, $200 for the HD unit if you want more delay (80 vs 9 ms so a big difference.) I would strongly recommend the $100 minidsp.
[...]
Maybe you can rearrange the wife's "listening position" so she's in more of a null?

I'd also listen to more full range material that is not bass heavy when testing. As you tune the bass you don't want to drown out the rest of the spectrum and so smoother bass will minimize that drowning out and disturb your wife less.
Well I think this is as far as I can get without using a minidsp.
Click image for larger version

Name:	3-23 final.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	74.5 KB
ID:	2701124
Moving the sub to the back wall didn’t do anything other than reduce the tactile feedback. Tried tweaking settings but couldn’t come up with anything useful.

So I put it back behind the couch and tried to level out the bass as much as possible using crossovers, phase, and trims.

Current settings:

N950
sw -12
150 hz -3
300 hz +2

Oppo
X/O 80 hz
LFE trim -3db

SVS
phase 180 -8 clicks
X/O disabled
gain 12:00 -2 clicks

That config has seemed ok with music. Will listen some more.

Wife isn’t much of a movie person, so the best listening position for her is probably at work
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #139 of 143 Old 03-24-2020, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Well I think this is as far as I can get without using a minidsp.
Attachment 2701124
Moving the sub to the back wall didn’t do anything other than reduce the tactile feedback. Tried tweaking settings but couldn’t come up with anything useful.

So I put it back behind the couch and tried to level out the bass as much as possible using crossovers, phase, and trims.

Current settings:

N950
sw -12
150 hz -3
300 hz +2

Oppo
X/O 80 hz
LFE trim -3db

SVS
phase 180 -8 clicks
X/O disabled
gain 12:00 -2 clicks

That config has seemed ok with music. Will listen some more.

Wife isn’t much of a movie person, so the best listening position for her is probably at work
Well I'd think about adding the minidsp to smooth the response. You've got output to spare it seems like you could do a lot.


But before doing this (remember minidsp won't touch the Sammy sub) I think its time to castrate the Sammy sub by plugging its port.


But first let me discuss home theater bass in general. I tried a bit (and will try again) cranking up my port plugged sub from -12 to -6 and up to -3db. What I noticed is that I needed to also turn up the SVS to kind of preserve the balance. In my mind I probably achieved an exaggerated version of your response (the bass head response that is so common where we try to get all the tactiles.) I must say the pop top music often in movies did like this better and you kind of had the ultimate bass sound for music. But when I went back to some stuff with reference low bass while impressive it just was a very bloated sound. Now mind you I listen loud as our soundbar can do which is around reference level and sometimes I screw up and play too loud. So basically it kind of sounds like the entire low bass range is just this fat ported subwoofer as opposed to a tighter and cleaner sound. Clearly wrong so I retreated to my reference settings. I will revisit this as I too "want it all". I suspect that you can't just tune so boom box pop and rap type music is going to be perfect.


So I ended up enjoying the fruits last night and settled on Transformer's Last Knight as the sound was very interesting Atmos. This was with my reference settings and I have to say I had jaw dropping low bass that vibrated my seat, but little thorax rattling bass which our Sammy sub has as its forte. My take right now is this just gives the cleanest most accurate, less fatiguing sound. I have a single car garage behind my 25 foot back wall that has doubled drywall with green glue and blue jeans insulation, but a return vent over the stereo system and a roof ventilator over the garage make me nervous about the neighbors sleeping in their 2nd story less than 30 feet away from that attic fan (my roof has 4 layers of shingles.) And so, I appreciate that these reference/flat settings aren't driving out 3-6 db more bass for the neighbors to enjoy in bed. The Last Knight bass was amazing with Atmos even at one point giving the illusion of a large bass sound falling from above. The Atmos effects were just spectacular and the non-reference settings just seem to add to the fatigue factor and obscure the sublime "air" of the Atmos sound on so many movie tracks. I don't think I'm going back, but I'll continue to try to get the thorax rattle and car bass boom for music. Maybe I'll even come up with some other settings for a movie like Peter Rabbit where you really enjoy the music and that favors the pop sound.


I've been enjoying less bombastic movies (Mary Queen of Scots or that Liszt PC Atmos disc) to tune my bass for the ultimate Atmos sound. Last Knight was the first heavy hitter I've really done (enjoyed first 20 minutes of Valerian's synthetic sound as well). I'll keep playing around, but right now I think for 98% of movies I have my reference settings and nothing more can be done other than moving my soundbar a bit more forward and see if I can find an ideal spot that is closer (can't move it back towards wall.) I suspect this will greatly affect my dip at 160hz and below where I see you actually are fighting a peak.


So I think you should go for this reference, clean, least fatiguing sound and give your best attempt at it with the current setup. Not only might you enjoy the sound more, but since you are on -12 for the Sammy sub the only thing I can see you doing IS plugging its port. Once that is done the SVS will dominate more of the low sound and you won't be able to use the Sammy to counteract some of its dips and peaks (well some impact still.) This setup will force your hand on the minidsp as now the Samsung's output will be more subtle enhancement rather than an equal to the SVS in the mid-bass and we can be sure that the parametric EQ will give you maximum benefit. Oh and yes parametric EQ is a holy grail of bass reproduction and costs a fortune to do in the all analog realm:
https://www.vandersteen.com/categories/subwoofers


So basically you want to measure for close to flat and then tune the subs levels by ear once in the ballpark. See if you like the sound and then of course minidsp will add those high-end tweaks (and it will do more than Vandersteen's $19000 subwoofer in the digital realm.) Remember your microphone could be off a couple hertz at 20, so you have to use your ear and of course for a given volume level with our setups we're always doing a touch of tuning of the subwoofer level by ear.


This should improve your WAF as you'll be taming your bass beasties and who knows she might be intrigued enough to watch a movie with you. I will point out that this "tamed" beast just sounds unbelievably good in the lowest frequencies as they too are not obscured by bass bloat in the frequencies above, so quite a combo with the spectacular Atmos-pherics and the extreme low bass power and clarity.


I wonder what the reference bass end game really is. Youtuber Youthman is exploring JTR's excellent subwoofers and I'm just shocked by the whole approach on many levels:
1. One system could hit 121db at 10hz and the guy had a boss setup plus an array of 18 inch drivers behind the listening seat. He's on a path too more JTR stuff and though I'm impressed with everything about the quality of the company (very) I'm just amazed that their top of the line speakers have some kind of massive horn tweeter with two 12 inch midranges, maybe its even 15. Judging by the crossovers they must be crossing over at 24db per octave because a 12 inch driver surely can't go that high (theirs are incredibly light drivers). It just strikes me at overkill to the extreme to keep up with subwoofers that can do over 145db in room. I guess for a massive room that this approach is warranted, but otherwise it just seems like something you do to crank the bejesus out of the bass and not fry the rest of your system. (Noted Youthman had ear plugs in for the 147db demo).
2. The other JTR system was largely complete and even had these ridiculous seats that moved. I believe also this was the one where one of the JTR techs had just made a program to run some fans in the room that blew on the user at points noted in the movies. This guy wasn't going for nine 18inch subwoofers, but was close enough. (And these rooms are at best large, not even extreme in size.) Talk about tactile!


But I come around to the viewpoint of what is the point of having 20-30db of headroom in the bass other than some freak show bassoholic demos. My guess is in reality these systems are used most of the time at reference levels or a bit less and its all about going flat well below 20hz for all the tactiles. Seems like you have the most bass for the buck in the history of the world with your PB12-NSD ruler flat down to 16hz in room. I can see a bit more additional headroom (2nd PB12 an obvious upgrade) being ideal, but is the rest simply going for tactile response as you've done? I cannot believe that sonic nirvana full range involves gobs and gobs of bass.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 03-24-2020 at 08:46 AM.
meles is offline  
post #140 of 143 Old 03-24-2020, 03:08 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
Well I'd think about adding the minidsp to smooth the response. You've got output to spare it seems like you could do a lot.


But before doing this (remember minidsp won't touch the Sammy sub) I think its time to castrate the Sammy sub by plugging its port.
Well, I spoke too soon. I had to change the Oppo sub distance to fix a timing problem. That threw off the phase setting and caused a bunch of other problems ending with the SVS localizing badly.

Sounded off but didn’t find out about the localization until the wife was out of the house and I could crank up the volume. Ran some measurements and found some huge dips as well.

Had to bump up the N950 sub and rebalance the two. Best I could manage after another round of tweaks:
Click image for larger version

Name:	final -3.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	68.7 KB
ID:	2701368

A little heavy on the mid bass, but fun for movies and still blended well trying out Subwoofer101’s music test playlist.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2x...UBubJk7xE?nd=1

The previous one was so far off playing movies that I didn’t even try with music.

Latest settings:

N950
sw -3
150 -6
300 +2

Oppo
X/O 90hz
trim -6db

SVS
phase 180 -20 clicks
X/O disabled
gain 12:00

Somewhere in there I tried port plugging in combination with the other adjustments, but couldn’t come up with anything that worked.
meles likes this.

Nvidia Shield - Zidoo X9S - HTPC/MPC-HC
Oppo 203 - Samsung HW-N950 - SVS PB12-NSD 7.2.4
LG 86UH9500
ntxoa is online now  
post #141 of 143 Old 03-24-2020, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Well, I spoke too soon. I had to change the Oppo sub distance to fix a timing problem. That threw off the phase setting and caused a bunch of other problems ending with the SVS localizing badly.

Sounded off but didn’t find out about the localization until the wife was out of the house and I could crank up the volume. Ran some measurements and found some huge dips as well.

Had to bump up the N950 sub and rebalance the two. Best I could manage after another round of tweaks:
Attachment 2701368

A little heavy on the mid bass, but fun for movies and still blended well trying out Subwoofer101’s music test playlist.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2x...UBubJk7xE?nd=1

The previous one was so far off playing movies that I didn’t even try with music.

Latest settings:

N950
sw -3
150 -6
300 +2

Oppo
X/O 90hz
trim -6db

SVS
phase 180 -20 clicks
X/O disabled
gain 12:00

Somewhere in there I tried port plugging in combination with the other adjustments, but couldn’t come up with anything that worked.
Well it took a lot of placement experimentation for me to find a spot to kill off the Samsung sub's heavier response around 80 hz, but I see you have it up on -3 instead of -12 now.



The subwoofer response above is the output before my last round of subtle tweaks and is the response of the two SVS in my room. That is the potential with minidsp. The SVS response could have been even smoother, but was being tailored to counteract the Samsung sub's output. The averaging above is not wholly accurate. Can't believe I tripped over my hdmi cable two years ago and busted the port on my laptop so I can't measure all three subs together. My hope is the port plugging and reduced output of the Samsung means the above is still fairly accurate.


Its best to use a recording of unamplified instruments (see jazz and classical) for music. Pop music is engineered and eq'd six ways to Sunday so you can really be completely off. Subwoofer101's list is pretty much and audiophile laundry list of fine recordings, but they for the most part fail the test. I highly recommend complex orchestral music. If you listen to music a lot with the soundbar then I suppose you tune in that sound mode. Like I said I went with the Dolby recorded Israel Philharmonic Liszt and Beethoven piano concertos recordings. Getting that humming has worked really well to get my settings singing. Attempts with actual movie discs were much more confusing. You'll see if you go with minidsp because you'll have a host of settings to tweak.



My measurements were done with Atmos upmixing engaged and the blue light on my soundbar. It probably makes almost no difference as I saw 0.0 differences in the Samsung subwoofer output based on upmixing other than overall level, but for the sound bar above 130 hz well that is going to vary all over the place for the different upmixing modes.
ntxoa likes this.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #142 of 143 Old 03-29-2020, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
@ntxoa check these videos:


A big takeaway from this is we aren't suffering too much without Dirac/Audyssey and the like. In the stochastic region (above 150hz) the direct sound is far more important and given our bars have the front speakers far away from sidewalls this is even more so for our situation. In short the anechoic response is a more accurate representation of what we hear:

So basically for the top section of our speaker these EQs offer little help except the ones we are using and maybe 900hz one is of interest
ntxoa likes this.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
meles is offline  
post #143 of 143 Old 03-29-2020, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
meles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Well, I spoke too soon. I had to change the Oppo sub distance to fix a timing problem. That threw off the phase setting and caused a bunch of other problems ending with the SVS localizing badly.

REW
picture of my room modes simulation and it very, very accurate for what I had to fight with minidsp


Its not readily apparent, but this does show I'm fighting a lot of dips from 120hz to 160hz.
ntxoa likes this.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 03-29-2020 at 09:10 AM.
meles is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Soundbars

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off