Originally Posted by ntxoa
Well I think this is as far as I can get without using a minidsp.
Moving the sub to the back wall didn’t do anything other than reduce the tactile feedback. Tried tweaking settings but couldn’t come up with anything useful.
So I put it back behind the couch and tried to level out the bass as much as possible using crossovers, phase, and trims.
150 hz -3
300 hz +2
X/O 80 hz
LFE trim -3db
phase 180 -8 clicks
gain 12:00 -2 clicks
That config has seemed ok with music. Will listen some more.
Wife isn’t much of a movie person, so the best listening position for her is probably at work
Well I'd think about adding the minidsp to smooth the response. You've got output to spare it seems like you could do a lot.
But before doing this (remember minidsp won't touch the Sammy sub) I think its time to castrate the Sammy sub by plugging its port.
But first let me discuss home theater bass in general. I tried a bit (and will try again) cranking up my port plugged sub from -12 to -6 and up to -3db. What I noticed is that I needed to also turn up the SVS to kind of preserve the balance. In my mind I probably achieved an exaggerated version of your response (the bass head response that is so common where we try to get all the tactiles.) I must say the pop top music often in movies did like this better and you kind of had the ultimate bass sound for music. But when I went back to some stuff with reference low bass while impressive it just was a very bloated sound. Now mind you I listen loud as our soundbar can do which is around reference level and sometimes I screw up and play too loud. So basically it kind of sounds like the entire low bass range is just this fat ported subwoofer as opposed to a tighter and cleaner sound. Clearly wrong so I retreated to my reference settings. I will revisit this as I too "want it all". I suspect that you can't just tune so boom box pop and rap type music is going to be perfect.
So I ended up enjoying the fruits last night and settled on Transformer's Last Knight as the sound was very interesting Atmos. This was with my reference settings and I have to say I had jaw dropping low bass that vibrated my seat, but little thorax rattling bass which our Sammy sub has as its forte. My take right now is this just gives the cleanest most accurate, less fatiguing sound. I have a single car garage behind my 25 foot back wall that has doubled drywall with green glue and blue jeans insulation, but a return vent over the stereo system and a roof ventilator over the garage make me nervous about the neighbors sleeping in their 2nd story less than 30 feet away from that attic fan (my roof has 4 layers of shingles.
) And so, I appreciate that these reference/flat settings aren't driving out 3-6 db more bass for the neighbors to enjoy in bed.
The Last Knight bass was amazing with Atmos even at one point giving the illusion of a large bass sound falling from above.
The Atmos effects were just spectacular and the non-reference settings just seem to add to the fatigue factor and obscure the sublime "air" of the Atmos sound on so many movie tracks. I don't think I'm going back, but I'll continue to try to get the thorax rattle and car bass boom for music. Maybe I'll even come up with some other settings for a movie like Peter Rabbit where you really enjoy the music and that favors the pop sound.
I've been enjoying less bombastic movies (Mary Queen of Scots or that Liszt PC Atmos disc) to tune my bass for the ultimate Atmos sound. Last Knight was the first heavy hitter I've really done (enjoyed first 20 minutes of Valerian's synthetic sound as well). I'll keep playing around, but right now I think for 98% of movies I have my reference settings and nothing more can be done other than moving my soundbar a bit more forward and see if I can find an ideal spot that is closer (can't move it back towards wall.) I suspect this will greatly affect my dip at 160hz and below where I see you actually are fighting a peak.
So I think you should go for this reference, clean, least fatiguing sound and give your best attempt at it with the current setup. Not only might you enjoy the sound more, but since you are on -12 for the Sammy sub the only thing I can see you doing IS plugging its port. Once that is done the SVS will dominate more of the low sound and you won't be able to use the Sammy to counteract some of its dips and peaks (well some impact still.) This setup will force your hand on the minidsp as now the Samsung's output will be more subtle enhancement rather than an equal to the SVS in the mid-bass and we can be sure that the parametric EQ will give you maximum benefit. Oh and yes parametric EQ is a holy grail of bass reproduction and costs a fortune to do in the all analog realm:
So basically you want to measure for close to flat and then tune the subs levels by ear once in the ballpark. See if you like the sound and then of course minidsp will add those high-end tweaks (and it will do more than Vandersteen's $19000 subwoofer in the digital realm.
) Remember your microphone could be off a couple hertz at 20, so you have to use your ear and of course for a given volume level with our setups we're always doing a touch of tuning of the subwoofer level by ear.
This should improve your WAF as you'll be taming your bass beasties and who knows she might be intrigued enough to watch a movie with you.
I will point out that this "tamed" beast just sounds unbelievably good in the lowest frequencies as they too are not obscured by bass bloat in the frequencies above, so quite a combo with the spectacular Atmos-pherics and the extreme low bass power and clarity.
I wonder what the reference bass end game really is.
Youtuber Youthman is exploring JTR's excellent subwoofers and I'm just shocked by the whole approach on many levels:
1. One system could hit 121db at 10hz and the guy had a boss setup plus an array of 18 inch drivers behind the listening seat. He's on a path too more JTR stuff and though I'm impressed with everything about the quality of the company (very) I'm just amazed that their top of the line speakers have some kind of massive horn tweeter with two 12 inch midranges, maybe its even 15.
Judging by the crossovers they must be crossing over at 24db per octave because a 12 inch driver surely can't go that high (theirs are incredibly light drivers). It just strikes me at overkill to the extreme to keep up with subwoofers that can do over 145db in room.
I guess for a massive room that this approach is warranted, but otherwise it just seems like something you do to crank the bejesus out of the bass and not fry the rest of your system. (Noted Youthman had ear plugs in for the 147db demo).
2. The other JTR system was largely complete and even had these ridiculous seats that moved. I believe also this was the one where one of the JTR techs had just made a program to run some fans in the room that blew on the user at points noted in the movies.
This guy wasn't going for nine 18inch subwoofers, but was close enough. (And these rooms are at best large, not even extreme in size.) Talk about tactile!
But I come around to the viewpoint of what is the point of having 20-30db of headroom in the bass other than some freak show bassoholic demos.
My guess is in reality these systems are used most of the time at reference levels or a bit less and its all about going flat well below 20hz for all the tactiles. Seems like you have the most bass for the buck in the history of the world with your PB12-NSD ruler flat down to 16hz in room. I can see a bit more additional headroom (2nd PB12 an obvious upgrade) being ideal, but is the rest simply going for tactile response as you've done? I cannot believe that sonic nirvana full range involves gobs and gobs of bass.