Using an Oppo to add a(nother) subwoofer to a soundbar - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 88 Old 06-18-2018, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Using an Oppo to add a(nother) subwoofer to a soundbar

Saw a post where someone has claimed to do this with the Samsung K950 which goes down to 40 hz. No idea how you configure the Oppo for this so hoping some intelligent Oppo user will explain the necessary settings. Assumedly, this would use the RCA subwoofer output on the Oppo. In theory one could put a splitter like the HDFury Avr Key before the hdmi input of the Oppo and feed it dumbed down video with sound up to DD+ Atmos. Not sure about dolby truehd Atmos feeding the Oppo as they claim not to support Atmos on the input. Just fed a Roku Prem+ through the Oppo's input and it passed DD+ Atmos (Vudu playing Fury Road) and lit up my K950's blue light.

For those who have an old subwoofer wasting away. Might even be a way to put an older Oppo with hdmi input back in service.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #2 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by meles View Post
Saw a post where someone has claimed to do this with the Samsung K950 which goes down to 40 hz. No idea how you configure the Oppo for this so hoping some intelligent Oppo user will explain the necessary settings. Assumedly, this would use the RCA subwoofer output on the Oppo. In theory one could put a splitter like the HDFury Avr Key before the hdmi input of the Oppo and feed it dumbed down video with sound up to DD+ Atmos. Not sure about dolby truehd Atmos feeding the Oppo as they claim not to support Atmos on the input. Just fed a Roku Prem+ through the Oppo's input and it passed DD+ Atmos (Vudu playing Fury Road) and lit up my K950's blue light.

For those who have an old subwoofer wasting away. Might even be a way to put an older Oppo with hdmi input back in service.
That was probably my post.

I have the Oppo HDMI audio connected to the K950. HDMI video goes direct to my display so I can get Dolby Vision.

The Oppo analog subwoofer out feeds a Dayton amp and bass shakers.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ndle--300-9004

I actually do a wireless connection using these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Line out from the Dayton goes to an old receiver that runs the extra sub.

I have an Nvidia Shield and a HTPC connected to the Oppo HDMI IN through a switch.

TrueHD Atmos and DD+ Atmos works fine that way. The PC mainly does 3D Mkv rips with Atmos tracks. The Shield streams online video.

Also have an 8tb drive on the Oppo with HD and 4k UHD Mkv rips.

Settings on the Oppo:

Under Audio Processing, set Output Volume to Fixed and Crossover to 40Hz.

For Speaker Configuration, set all speakers to small, set Subwoofer to on, and Down Mix to 7.1 or 5.1.
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post #3 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 04:28 AM
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Doing it this way your subwoofer will not correspondingly change its volume if you change the volume on the sound bar. If you listen at the same volume all the time it could work,
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post #4 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Doing it this way your subwoofer will not correspondingly change its volume if you change the volume on the sound bar. If you listen at the same volume all the time it could work,
I have it optimized to comfortably loud for watching movies on my own.

I also have the receiver running the subwoofer programmed on my Harmony remote, so I can adjust the volume or turn it off for when the wife is around.
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post #5 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
I have it optimized to comfortably loud for watching movies on my own.

I also have the receiver running the subwoofer programmed on my Harmony remote, so I can adjust the volume or turn it off for when the wife is around.
That makes sense. Unless he has a receiver he should set the Oppo to variable and he should be able to adjust the sub's volume with the Oppo remote.
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post #6 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
That makes sense. Unless he has a receiver he should set the Oppo to variable and he should be able to adjust the sub's volume with the Oppo remote.
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
I have it optimized to comfortably loud for watching movies on my own.

I also have the receiver running the subwoofer programmed on my Harmony remote, so I can adjust the volume or turn it off for when the wife is around.
Its got to be hard to set the subs volume crossed over at 40 hz as often not a ton of content that low. The Oppo volume and K950 volume go 1-100 so hopefully this works out to some guideline and I just move volume up and down with one remote in each hand lol. The Oppo also has a turn on volume setting and a max volume setting which should provide a safety factor. I hope the Oppo doesn't like to emit bass burps or other nasties.

I'm going to be using a pair of audiophile tower speaker subs with dual Dynaudio 30w100 12 inch drivers in each in an isobaric configuration. These are driven by a seperate amplifier with no crossover (have a separate active crossover which I won't use). My understanding is Oppo carried over their peculiar setting of full bandwidth subwoofer if you set all speakers to "Large". That would mean no crossover in my case which would not be good. I hope I have enough gain as the Oppos are known to clip apparently. And on the other hand having a ton of gain is not great either (engineers may demur noting the volume control turns down noise, but having all that extra circuitry is never a good thing and subwoofer sound quality has surprising effects on how a whole speaker system sounds to the ear; I own audiophile speakers with subs built in so trust me.)

I believe Oppo did a firmware change that lower everything by 5 db so it may be OK to set the subwoofer's trim as high as +5 db.

Graph at 80hz and shows 12 db crossover slope for the Oppo's crossover when set on small loudspeaker (large is no crossover)


My subs were designed to crossover at 80hz 6 db so I'm hoping 12db at 40 hz will work well enough. I won't be moving the tower subs in my setup because they are optimized for a two channel system, but I will play around with the K950's sub placement as I've got it in a corner for maximum room reinforcement. Its pretty hard to stop room reinforcement at the lowest frequencies, but it has impact on upper bass in a big way which can really affect the sound.

Might as well add this for our Samsung K950s.

-3db point of 40 hz by the measurements and kind of a dwindling leanness in the bass that might allow our super-subs to blend in with 12 db crossover. Looks like 24db slope for K950 sub/satellite transition.

Just ordered this 24 karat splitter which was the best I could find so I could use both of my sub channels together:

right click image for retailer and got this gem for nearly $15 delivered

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #7 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
....
I have an Nvidia Shield and a HTPC connected to the Oppo HDMI IN through a switch.

TrueHD Atmos and DD+ Atmos works fine that way. The PC mainly does 3D Mkv rips with Atmos tracks. The Shield streams online video.

Also have an 8tb drive on the Oppo with HD and 4k UHD Mkv rips.
....
I have to ask what you think of the quality of the Oppo's file playback. It what I use mainly for Atmos though my Sony X700 has a high kill rate on even 4K folder rips (can't do mkv Atmos). Also use Infuse ATV4K combo. I would think Oppo superior to an HTPC. I had some reservations about the Oppo vs the ATV4K, but used picture adjustment settings of Oppo to fix (Bright +3, Contrast +3, Sharpness +5) and now its just better. I'm using a little 12 TB NAS (mycloud EX2). I did really like madvr etc for HTPC, but I just used Envy 3D laptop and can't do HDR/4K. This videophile thing has been enough work without trying to come up with HTPC. Ugh, just noticed you are a 3Dphile which I've only seen a few times in theaters (my laptop did not come with the glasses lol.)

I'm holding off on mega USB drives as I don't need them and frankly I'm trying to get a lot of Digital 4K content (Vudu, iTunes) that is Dolby Vision for my setup. If needed I've got two ports on my NAS, two on the router, and I guess the one on the Oppo.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #8 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by meles View Post
I have to ask what you think of the quality of the Oppo's file playback. It what I use mainly for Atmos though my Sony X700 has a high kill rate on even 4K folder rips (can't do mkv Atmos). Also use Infuse ATV4K combo. I would think Oppo superior to an HTPC. I had some reservations about the Oppo vs the ATV4K, but used picture adjustment settings of Oppo to fix (Bright +3, Contrast +3, Sharpness +5) and now its just better. I'm using a little 12 TB NAS (mycloud EX2). I did really like madvr etc for HTPC, but I just used Envy 3D laptop and can't do HDR/4K. This videophile thing has been enough work without trying to come up with HTPC. Ugh, just noticed you are a 3Dphile which I've only seen a few times in theaters (my laptop did not come with the glasses lol.)

I'm holding off on mega USB drives as I don't need them and frankly I'm trying to get a lot of Digital 4K content (Vudu, iTunes) that is Dolby Vision for my setup. If needed I've got two ports on my NAS, two on the router, and I guess the one on the Oppo.
I really like the Oppo for 4k HDR Atmos rips. Haven’t tried full backups for Dolby Vision.

The HTPC is good for 3D Mkvs, which the Oppo doesn’t do. Using MPC-HC with madVR and LAV filters.

I started out with 4k UHD, but later got into 3D which I found I like even more. I ended up rebuying 3D versions of the UHD movies I had.

If I could have only one format, it would have to be 3D video with Atmos. Right now, I have more 3D blu-rays than UHD. Happiness = Gal Gadot in 3D on an 86” LG

Thanks for all the technical info. I’m far from an audiophile, so there’s probably a lot of tweaking that could be done on my setup. For now, maybe ignorance is bliss, haha.
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post #9 of 88 Old 06-19-2018, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
I really like the Oppo for 4k HDR Atmos rips. Haven’t tried full backups for Dolby Vision.

The HTPC is good for 3D Mkvs, which the Oppo doesn’t do. Using MPC-HC with madVR and LAV filters.

I started out with 4k UHD, but later got into 3D which I found I like even more. I ended up rebuying 3D versions of the UHD movies I had.

If I could have only one format, it would have to be 3D video with Atmos. Right now, I have more 3D blu-rays than UHD. Happiness = Gal Gadot in 3D on an 86” LG

Thanks for all the technical info. I’m far from an audiophile, so there’s probably a lot of tweaking that could be done on my setup. For now, maybe ignorance is bliss, haha.
Be glad you're not an audiofool. I've not admitted it, but I've slid over from my two channel system a ps audio perfectwave ac-12 power cable that retails for $1200 over onto the K950's sub for a bit of a boost in sound (via $4 iec adapter lol). One of the great things about a wireless soundbar is limited tweaking possible. Still it makes a difference and things like noise/sound floor are important.

Your views on 3D are different. A friend of mine (online, not local) is collecting much smaller 2016 curved LG Oleds that he claims are going up in value used. I'll have to try to see a 3D setup.

Well I have a new 5 input switch that works with my xbox which does upmixing. Instead of having it right in front of the xbox I'm going to move it to the input of the Oppo to make sure all my sources can enjoy the Oppoulence of an extra two subwoofers. I thought maybe doing this subwoofer setup you concocted would involve more hdmi cables, but I'm thinking it won't.... Well it has created one of sorts. If I want to playback a file on the Oppo and upmix it I can't very well send the audio of the Oppo to the xbox for upmixing and then have it come in its own input. Oh well what's another switch and some hdmi cables? Its a rare situation for me so I think I'll leave that a manual cable switch as I only really do that with the Oppo when I'm mixing the dolby truehd core of a movie where I'm not impressed with the original Atmos track.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #10 of 88 Old 06-20-2018, 12:02 PM
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Well I have a new 5 input switch that works with my xbox which does upmixing. Instead of having it right in front of the xbox I'm going to move it to the input of the Oppo to make sure all my sources can enjoy the Oppoulence of an extra two subwoofers.
Have you connected the xbox to the Oppo HDMI IN and gotten Atmos by way of the Dolby App?

With the PC going to the Oppo, I do get Atmos from MPC-HC, but not for stuff handled by the Dolby App. Dolby App just sends LPCM which the Oppo converts to 2 channel LPCM for the K950 which doesn’t work for Atmos.

If I connect the PC directly to the K950, the Dolby App sends the proper bitstream, and Atmos and upmixing works correctly for games etc.

Trying to get that all working through the Oppo to have Atmos, extra sub, and bass shakers all working at the same time for PC games.
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post #11 of 88 Old 06-20-2018, 12:13 PM
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I'll have to try to see a 3D setup.
Check out:

Ghost in the Shell
Blade Runner 2049
Fury Road
Wonder Woman
Resident Evil Afterlife/Retribution
Edge of Tomorrow
Gravity

Even better if you do Atmos remuxed versions for the 3D that didn’t originally come with Atmos tracks.
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post #12 of 88 Old 06-20-2018, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you connected the xbox to the Oppo HDMI IN and gotten Atmos by way of the Dolby App?

With the PC going to the Oppo, I do get Atmos from MPC-HC, but not for stuff handled by the Dolby App. Dolby App just sends LPCM which the Oppo converts to 2 channel LPCM for the K950 which doesn’t work for Atmos.

If I connect the PC directly to the K950, the Dolby App sends the proper bitstream, and Atmos and upmixing works correctly for games etc.

Trying to get that all working through the Oppo to have Atmos, extra sub, and bass shakers all working at the same time for PC games.
I did for a while and then the blasted Xbox went to 640x480 video and blew up Access Atmos. I'm going to play with it more today with my switch before the Oppo and it is back working direct from Xbox to K950. You'll want to make sure you have a proper full backup of your htpc as windows home theatre Atmos is very, very flakey and usually the only way to recover it is to restore the image.

To get Atmos you should be able to go to sound in the control panel and then do properties of hdmi and turn it on with the spatial sound tab. When I had it working on my laptop it converted everything on the hdmi connection to Atmos including DTS HD. It sounded very, very good. If your windows home theater atmos is foobared you'll get an error message when you try to put it on atmos for home theater. If you get it working, stop, do not pass go, and make a windows backup image of your working configuration so that you can restore if your setup goes on the lamb.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 06-20-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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post #13 of 88 Old 06-20-2018, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Check out:
Ghost in the Shell
Blade Runner 2049
Fury Road
Wonder Woman
Resident Evil Afterlife/Retribution
Edge of Tomorrow
Gravity

Even better if you do Atmos remuxed versions for the 3D that didn’t originally come with Atmos tracks.
Most impressive. Roughly where are you; I might want to come by for a demo some time in the future.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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.....If I connect the PC directly to the K950, the Dolby App sends the proper bitstream, and Atmos and upmixing works correctly for games etc.
....
I've got a splitter other than the Oppo (HD Fury AVR Key). I will try that in the mix as perhaps just sending audio to Oppo might somehow work. I noticed with my ATV4K that the Oppo as a splitter liked to go from bitstream of DD5.1 to stereo LPCM. This was despite the ATV4K being set to DD5.1. The Oppo willy nilly would decide that stereo LPCM was best for the Xbox. The xbox hdmi input is worse than the K950 as it does not accept any form of DTS.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
Have you connected the xbox to the Oppo HDMI IN and gotten Atmos by way of the Dolby App?

With the PC going to the Oppo, I do get Atmos from MPC-HC, but not for stuff handled by the Dolby App. Dolby App just sends LPCM which the Oppo converts to 2 channel LPCM for the K950 which doesn’t work for Atmos.

If I connect the PC directly to the K950, the Dolby App sends the proper bitstream, and Atmos and upmixing works correctly for games etc.

Trying to get that all working through the Oppo to have Atmos, extra sub, and bass shakers all working at the same time for PC games.
The Xbox doing Atmos out does not play nicely with the Oppo for some reason and I tried HDFury AVRKey before it with a bunch of different settings. Stinks because this means we can't get Atmos upmixing and use the sub. (K950 soundbar, for those unfamiliar, does not accept DTSHD so the Xbox is a great DTSHD disc player, Fandango DTS HD non-4K player, and bluray rip player as it will upmix DTSHD from all of these to Atmos and send this to Samsung K950, plus it upmixes DD+ and DD5.1 to Atmos from its hdmi input with great affect) Sony X700 4K disc player with Vudu works perfectly with Oppo input if a little touchy on syncing. Roku Prem+ also has put Atmos through. I'm not confident the ATV4K will work either on the input as I'm testing beta right now with Atmos that works with Vudu app quite well. ATV4K Atmos in initial stages.

I just got by amp/sub combination hooked up direct to the Oppo without crossover stage. At first I didn't think it was working, but setting the SW Trim in the Oppo to +5 helps and I may have to go to +10 (and risk that nasty sine wave above lol). Subwoofer at 40 hz with 12 db crossover makes bass from opening of T2 Trainspotting sound like it is coming from my neighbors. If not enough gain I have solution of using my two channel systems active crossover, but kind of a minor pia making that move. Just have had this up for minutes and haven't done any critical listening. I even have an analog Placette 100 position or so passive volume control that uses Vishay bulk foil resistors ($15 each) and well one friend dubbed my system massive attack once that was put in place. In fact I could even just use the entire line stage that drives the Placette for full on massive attack. Line stage uses expensive MX missle vacuum tube called Bendix 6900 so I could have tube sound with my sound bar. As I think about that setup would be incredibly easy to maintain as I could just use one of the inputs from the linestage to hook up to the Oppo and maybe trim the Oppo down. Hopefully the Oppo has the balls to drive my subwoofer amp alone.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #16 of 88 Old 06-25-2018, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ntxoa View Post
That was probably my post.

I have the Oppo HDMI audio connected to the K950. ......

Settings on the Oppo:

Under Audio Processing, set Output Volume to Fixed and Crossover to 40Hz.

For Speaker Configuration, set all speakers to small, set Subwoofer to on, and Down Mix to 7.1 or 5.1.
Well I had to unleash the full massive attack setup with my 6900 tube line stage driving the phuck out of a Placette Remote volume control:

Right now there is 6db electronic crossover that came with my subs that is fixed at 80 hz. The Oppo's simple 12db electronic crossover at 40 hz. I moved the Oppo trim setting to lowest setting of -10db to give the Placette into a better range and for sure safety. So by 80 hz this is an 18db per octave crossover. The cobmo at 40 hz its down -4db.

I looked at your Dayton SA100's crossover and its variable on the frequency you can set and 24db per octave. Have you tried fiddling with some of these xover settings? If it were me, I'd have the Oppo on large speakers so the SA100 gets a full range signal. You then can dial its crossover in perfectly. The rolloff of the K950 sub is quite steep (due to the bottom dropping out of the port boost) and approximates 24 db per octave so I'd think that would be optimum. I wish I had your phase switch to try. Have you fooled around with these? (I'm especially interested with your findings because its much more problematic for me to do these tests.)

With my setup I'm hearing a nice subtle improvement. Just listening to my extra subs they are basically shakers of the room that vibrate things on shelves and dishes over in my kitchen, but they don't sound all that loud compared to the K950's Atmos sub. In my case turning them up much more creates strain on my drivers (last time I was able to buy a replacement driver they were $400 each so a dumbo move that frys the drivers is $1600 and a giant pia.) Sonically yeah you have a little more oomph to some things, but really our K950 Atmos sub just poors out bass in its range so I'm not bowled over with the extra low end. I do like what it does for the overall sound and it adds a nice air and tone to piano notes and gives more intimacy to the presentation and detail. Its kind of like the difference between DD+ Atmos and Dolby TrueHD Atmos at best.

Hoping to hear of your further findings so I can coax more out of mine. I hope if you've not tried them you take a look at some of my suggestions and see if you can get some further improvements to the sound.

Do you think the timing of the analog signal direct to our subs is in full sync with the hdmi signal fed sound bar?

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
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XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
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post #17 of 88 Old 06-25-2018, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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@ntxoa I tried the Oppo at +5 db instead of -10 db to allow the Placette to be at much lower volumes and I had to have it near its lowest settings which is good because a volume control at the end of the chain turn down noise levels when doing this. Sounded a touch better. I played pyramid scene from X-Men Apocalypse to set maximum volume my extra subs could take and it did help sound. The cracking and crumbling of stones was much crisper and higher frequencies better which is an effect I've gotten in the past when improving my subwoofer electronics (recapping amplifier and crossover with blackgates). Of course homes contents were rumbling as well.

Still I have an issue in theory with phase. My current setup does not invert phase whilst the 12db crossover of the Oppo usually calls for phase inversion. To that end I've just removed the Placette and line stage from the system, a single gain stage that inverts phase. I'm now hooked up with the Oppo driving the crossover. I'm hoping somehow I won't need to change its settings which are optimized for my two channel system and that I can just use volume control in Oppo to get where I need to be. If not I can turn the crossover up and that will do it. I'll report back on this. No need to do the tests I've requested as I've not gotten in place all my possible configurations with no need to invert speaker cables at the amp. In theory eliminating the unnecessary gain stage should be an improvement however the Oppo's digital volume control will be a step backwards versus the Placette.

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ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
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@ntxoa I forgot one more configuration. But first, the new configuration in my post above worked. I had enough gain and it seemed like maybe the bass was better in some way due to phase not cancelling some frequencies around the crossover. However, something was lost and its probably the digital volume versus the nearly perfect Placette.

The final most painful configuration is in place and I like it in theory. I've eliminated the crossover (of course still have the 12 db one with the Oppo) and put the line stage back in which will be directly driving the amp which it may not like as I may have modded the load resistors on the amp's input from 100k to 50k. It shouldn't matter though as this type of load I believe if I'm remembering right just affects high frequency performance which is no matter for the passive Placette especially with that robust 6900 valve driving it. This also gets rid of the extra 6 db slope which might not have been ideal for phase. Fingers crossed as its setup and I try it next.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
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Oh yes the last configuration in the post above is a big winner. Each of the improvements was somewhat subtle but here's their contributions to a greater whole:
1. Unnecessary gain eliminated
2. Passive volume just before sub amp scrubs noise down from any remaining extra gain at the end of the preamp/crossover stage
3. Placette bulk foil volume control vastly superior to the dubious digital one in the Oppo (digital volume controls are bad.)
4. The somewhat average solid state crossover was replaced with the amazing Mu Bendix 6900 with its superlative (for a valve) bass performance and much greater dynamic capabilities.
5. With 12db Oppo crossover, the following electronics need to net invert phase for the best crossover performance.
6. Eliminating the 6db crossover also seemed a plus probably for phase issue in conjuction with Oppo's 12 db crossover and for the leanish decline in bass response for the Samsung K950's sub down to its -3db point at 40 hz. Not having a 24 db crossover means the two added subs will be suplementing that range nicely. -3db at 40 hz, but by not sharply rolling off enough it should cancel the leanness of the K950 sub in the 40 to 80 hz range. The following graph shows the 12 db versus 18 db and divide the 400hz crossover value by 10 to use this graph for the sub situation here:


After all this blather how did it sound? Well just listening to the sub only you could here the dynamic nature of the bass and it was a tad plumper (12 db crossover versus 18db). It integrated with the K950 sub much better for smoother response without any bad phase suckouts near the crossover point. Just a little more oomph for 80hz and below overall which was needed. The X-men Apocalypse opening pyramid scene was noticeably improved with even crisper rock splitting sounds as the pyramid collapsed on the four horseman as they protected En Sabah Nur's transition to a new immortal mutant body. Everything was more dynamic and the high frequencies shined notably when En Sabah Nur was buried for thousands of years with his horseman sorceress extended her magic to protect him from the crushing tomb of rocks. Her crashing to the ground was much more impactful sound later followed by her body mercifully being crushed by a large boulder.

For those who doubt

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 06-26-2018 at 01:01 AM.
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The Xbox doing Atmos out does not play nicely with the Oppo for some reason and I tried HDFury AVRKey before it with a bunch of different settings. Stinks because this means we can't get Atmos upmixing and use the sub.
Sounds like the same thing that’s going on with the PC version of the Dolby Access App.

Somehow, the Oppo tells the app to send LPCM instead of bitstream. We should email Oppo support to request an option to force bitstream for HDMI In.
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Oh yes the last configuration in the post above is a big winner. Each of the improvements was somewhat subtle but here's their contributions to a greater whole:
1. Unnecessary gain eliminated
2. Passive volume just before sub amp scrubs noise down from any remaining extra gain at the end of the preamp/crossover stage
3. Placette bulk foil volume control vastly superior to the dubious digital one in the Oppo (digital volume controls are bad.)
4. The somewhat average solid state crossover was replaced with the amazing Mu Bendix 6900 with its superlative (for a valve) bass performance and much greater dynamic capabilities.
5. With 12db Oppo crossover, the following electronics need to net invert phase for the best crossover performance.
6. Eliminating the 6db crossover also seemed a plus probably for phase issue in conjuction with Oppo's 12 db crossover and for the leanish decline in bass response for the Samsung K950's sub down to its -3db point at 40 hz. Not having a 24 db crossover means the two added subs will be suplementing that range nicely. -3db at 40 hz, but by not sharply rolling off enough it should cancel the leanness of the K950 sub in the 40 to 80 hz range.
[...]
Wow, very cool work you’ve done there. Sounds like you really have got that optimized. Congrats!

Now I’ll have to try a few tweaks on mine.

Thanks for the report!
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post #22 of 88 Old 06-27-2018, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, very cool work you’ve done there. Sounds like you really have got that optimized. Congrats!

Now I’ll have to try a few tweaks on mine.

Thanks for the report!
Let me know what you find. I live near Dayton so needless to say your sub equipment is popular around here. A local audiophile around here has done well using one of their sub amplifiers with a nice Magneplanar panel speaker setup.

So far so good here. I've rearranged my physical setup to make it work with this new setup. My main fear is that I'll play the two channel system and leave the sub essentially full range, but I'd think it would be pretty easy to hear and doubt it would cause a malfunction.

Down the line I'd like to get perhaps a real home theater sub and its hard to get great bass for the money. My room's longest dimension is 25 hz so something that goes subterranean is probably over kill. I kind of like the idea of my tube line stage being in the mix, but it puts out quite a bit of heat and something perhaps Atmos certified might be a better and safer choice.

Let us know what you do on the crossover front or are currently doing. There is nothing like a free improvement from better setup/configuration. I'm out $15 for this little venture so pretty happy.

For me right now setting the sub level involve listening to the most abusive sections of a movie and making sure I'm not straining the drivers. I then just optimize volume from there and I've never felt a need to turn the sub down which probably means I need more beef.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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Sounds like the same thing that’s going on with the PC version of the Dolby Access App.

Somehow, the Oppo tells the app to send LPCM instead of bitstream. We should email Oppo support to request an option to force bitstream for HDMI In.
Well lots of luck since they're discontinued and yet skyrocketing in price on ebay.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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Do you think the timing of the analog signal direct to our subs is in full sync with the hdmi signal fed sound bar?
The analog sub signal seemed early relative to the HDMI.

My latest Oppo audio settings have the sub distance at 0’ and all the other speakers at 50’. That seems to delay the analog sub and get things to sync better.

Other setting tweaks - I changed all speakers to large, sub trim to +10 db, and crossover to 80hz.

Before, when I had speakers set to small, I couldn’t set the crossover higher than 40hz because I would get low frequency from dialogue coming through the sub.
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Well lots of luck since they're discontinued and yet skyrocketing in price on ebay.
Well, they’ve been expending all kinds of effort to accomodate projectors that don’t do HDR and Sony TV’s that don’t do DV.

Doesn’t seem like too much to ask to have the 203 request bitstream instead of PCM when the HDMI input already can handle bitstream passthrough just fine.
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The analog sub signal seemed early relative to the HDMI.

My latest Oppo audio settings have the sub distance at 0’ and all the other speakers at 50’. That seems to delay the analog sub and get things to sync better.

Other setting tweaks - I changed all speakers to large, sub trim to +10 db, and crossover to 80hz.

Before, when I had speakers set to small, I couldn’t set the crossover higher than 40hz because I would get low frequency from dialogue coming through the sub.
Good tip on sub distance. I have mine on 12 feet so I'll play with that. I'd be surprised if the other speakers settings other than large/small have any impact on the sub. From what I read and posted above having the other speakers on large means the sub is getting a full range signal so crossover frequency setting in Oppo has no impact. No matter what the settings your hdmi from Oppo to the Samsung K950 sound bar will always be full range.

Also I'd advise against sub trim over +5 give the sine wave performance posted in the graphics above.

My guess at optimum setups for your situation would be the following:
1. Large speaker settings so full range signal to your subwoofer module. I'd then set the subwoofer module for 40 hz on your sub (lowest setting) with no phase flip. This should give you 24 db slope which should cross nicely with K950's steep rolloff at 24 hz. Now you will have room modes that effect the bass and you could have suck out issues or peaks from the room. Placing both subs will be important for room modes and you might want to up your extra sub's crossover point from 40Hz if the room is not boosting 40 hz, but I wouldn't think higher than 50 hz.

or

2. Small speaker settings on Oppo and you set its rolloff at 40 hz, maybe 50hz if room not supporting 40 or so well. This will be a 12 db rolloff and you don't want your sub set at 40db as you end up with crazy 36db rolloff. Here set your extra subs rolloff as high as possible so it has negligible impact. However I would try the phase invert switch for sure. The 12db rolloff will defintely help ameliorate the leanness we see in 40 to 80 hz range for the K950.

On paper these would be the two best approaches. You did not mention the settings on your extra sub itself so I'm wondering what you have it on.

I'm going to play with my setup some more and see what I find.

My tower speakers whose subs I'm using has a scant 6 db per octave slope when setup as designed (the first order slopes create no phase issues). They are 80 hz, 6db slope and you hear a lot of music coming through the subs needless to say. Your subs at 40hz with just 12 db slope should be fine even if they are not designed to cover into the midrange. If you're set at 40 hz that means they are down 27db by 160hz. Your sub is designed to be set as high as 180hz with 24 db slope. So around 160 hz with the Oppo only doing the slope you're down nearly 27 db more than your extra subs. By 200 hz you then have a 36db per octave slope so should not be possible whatsoever to bleed into the midrange. By 640 hz you are down 51 db plus another 51 db from your extra sub if it were set at 160 hz. In contrast my tower speakers would be down just 21 db or so at 640hz to your 102db.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #27 of 88 Old 06-28-2018, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, they’ve been expending all kinds of effort to accomodate projectors that don’t do HDR and Sony TV’s that don’t do DV.

Doesn’t seem like too much to ask to have the 203 request bitstream instead of PCM when the HDMI input already can handle bitstream passthrough just fine.
I'm not sure what the Oppo is doing as my Roku and Sony x700 bitstream just fine with it. They really need to make the Oppo play nicely with the Apple TV 4K. Its kind of an HDMI hell and I wonder if if the fault is more with the Xbox and the ATV4K.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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My guess at optimum setups for your situation would be the following:
Ok, will play around some more. I did drop back the sub trim later. A lot of your advice is over my head, so I will have to study a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
I'm not sure what the Oppo is doing as my Roku and Sony x700 bitstream just fine with it. They really need to make the Oppo play nicely with the Apple TV 4K. Its kind of an HDMI hell and I wonder if if the fault is more with the Xbox and the ATV4K.
Yep. My Nvidia Shield and MPC-HC on the PC both bitstream fine with the Oppo. The Dolby Access App and the Oppo aren’t cooperating.

I emailed Oppo again regarding the issue and asked for an option to force bitstream. I told them that PC, Xbox, and Apple TV were having this LPCM problem.

After a little back and forth, they asked me to create a log file while trying to bitstream but getting LPCM.

Just sent it to them a few minutes ago.

Hopefully, they can track down why there’s an issue.
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Ok, will play around some more. I did drop back the sub trim later. A lot of your advice is over my head, so I will have to study a bit.



Yep. My Nvidia Shield and MPC-HC on the PC both bitstream fine with the Oppo. The Dolby Access App and the Oppo aren’t cooperating.

I emailed Oppo again regarding the issue and asked for an option to force bitstream. I told them that PC, Xbox, and Apple TV were having this LPCM problem.

After a little back and forth, they asked me to create a log file while trying to bitstream but getting LPCM.

Just sent it to them a few minutes ago.

Hopefully, they can track down why there’s an issue.
Nicely done. Please tell them there players are selling for almost double list price and maybe they should make a few more.

My own testing will be delay at least until Sunday as my evening are occupied.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #30 of 88 Old 06-29-2018, 11:43 PM
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The Xbox doing Atmos out does not play nicely with the Oppo for some reason and I tried HDFury AVRKey before it with a bunch of different settings.
AVRKey set to full HDMI Audio doesn’t allow Atmos from the Xbox to the Oppo?

I just started looking into spoofing Edids through hardware or software in hopes of making it work.
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