Sonos Introduces Arc Soundbar with Dolby Atmos - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
I believe the intention of having a sonos soundbar is so that an AVR is not needed/used.

Either way, with Sonos ARC connected to the HDMI eARC port on the TV, any device that is connected to the TV (including the TV's built-in streaming apps) will pass the audio to the Sonos ARC. If you have the devices connected to an AVR, rather than the TV, you have to make sure the AVR is passing the audio to the TV.
That would be true if the Arc had HDMI inputs like an AVR. Also for some time Sonos has expected the TV to handle 5.1 etc which lately is much more true than it used to be. But it caused no end of grief for users and lots of talk about using splitters etc.
Sonos is going to be inundated with technical support calls and returns simply because they did not add an HDMI input or two into the ARC like most other high end soundbars do.
Thats Sonos for you. One step forward one step back.
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post #62 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:20 AM
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besides the Atmos stuff I'm bummed that there is no support for multi channel PCM over eArc. I was hoping to finally get surround sound out of my switch with a sonos system
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post #63 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
Apple's support article actually doesn't mention eArc at all it only says that its "high bandwidth and doesn't work over Arc connections" there's a little bit of wiggle room there
Seems pretty clear to me. You can't use ARC alone for their Atmos and the one eARC port TV's have will be used for the Arc. Of course lots of TVs don't have eARC at all like my Sony X930e.
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post #64 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCalCyclist View Post
Seems pretty clear to me. You can't use ARC alone for their Atmos and the one eARC port TV's have will be used for the Arc. Of course lots of TVs don't have eARC at all like my Sony X930e.
like I said there is an official Sonos support person on their forums claiming that some TVs get DD+ lossy atmos with Apple TV and the arc so something is not so black and white here. ultimately though we have to just wait and see, its going to vary a lot by how various TVs pass stuff over their Arc implementation
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post #65 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
I think its up to what you value more. I have a Beam and two Ones as surrounds with no sub. (I've previously had a proper HT setup in this room w/ sub so i know what it "should" sound like). I enjoy the immersion and surround effects with the dedicated surrounds. The Ones also seem to play full range as they added quite a bit of fullness to the sound overall when i added them. Of course there's no bass rumble, but its nice for normal watching and satisfactory enough even for movie time. And the Arc should fill a room much better than the Beam.

That said i did get the One SLs for $130 each so i'd wait for a sale. I'll get a sub some day as well, but i'll wait for a deal.
I can tell you that the sub is a huge upgrade for the Beam and I would do that before rears. Heck get some Symfonisk rears for $99 each.
Now that the new sub is coming out perhaps the older ones will be available cheaper.
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post #66 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCalCyclist View Post
Apple says they need eARC for Apple TV. Plugged into the TV, the soundbar, or a AV receiver. This is a big subject of discussion on the Reddit Sonos forum and people are speculating maybe they can make it work with a splitter etc.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

Was this intended for me? If so, I am aware:


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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
The bold part is incorrect, the Apple TV does not send out DD+, it rather converts everything to PCM. Atmos is output in lossless MAT format, thus will not work with older ARC unless the TV itself converts it to DD+.
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Originally Posted by SoCalCyclist View Post
That would be true if the Arc had HDMI inputs like an AVR. Also for some time Sonos has expected the TV to handle 5.1 etc which lately is much more true than it used to be. But it caused no end of grief for users and lots of talk about using splitters etc.
With eARC, the TV HDMI inputs are what is intended to be used. What would be the benefit of plugging them into the Sonos soundbar? I agree the Sonos would be more flexible if they at least included an HDMI input so the system is more functional with TVs with the older HDMI ARC.

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post #67 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
like I said there is an official Sonos support person on their forums claiming that some TVs get DD+ lossy atmos with Apple TV and the arc so something is not so black and white here. ultimately though we have to just wait and see, its going to vary a lot by how various TVs pass stuff over their Arc implementation

If you search "apple tv bitstream" you will find that Apple TV converting everything to PCM has been a source of frustration for awhile, it is pretty black and white.


Do you know what TVs people are having success with Apple TV, Atmos, and older HDMI ARC? I left the caveat in my original post about the TV converting it, from my understanding some 2019 LG TV can convert lossless Atmos in TrueHD format to DD+ so that ATMOS can be passed over the older ARC, not sure if this also works with Atmos in MAT format.

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post #68 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
If you search "apple tv bitstream" you will find that Apple TV converting everything to PCM has been a source of frustration for awhile, it is pretty black and white.


Do you know what TVs people are having success with Apple TV, Atmos, and older HDMI ARC? I left the caveat in my original post about the TV converting it, from my understanding some 2019 LG TV can convert lossless Atmos in TrueHD format to DD+ so that ATMOS can be passed over the older ARC, not sure if this also works with Atmos in MAT format.
honestly I don't I was in a thread on reddit and someone was mad that I even suggested it may not work over eArc because of the PCM situation and he copy/pastaed a post from the sonos forums claiming DD+ atmos worked via apple tv but I couldn't find it myself

I'm anxious to see people get this in their hands and test it with various set ups because its going to depend a lot on the TV. I actually had 2 preordered (one for living room, one for game room) but canceled them both until we learn more about the Apple TV situation
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post #69 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Atmos can not be LPCM. LPCM would only cover 8 channels of audio (7.1). Atmos is encoded in Dolby True HD or DD+ format not LPCM and there is no converting it except to put everything in the base layer of 7.1.

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Certain content devices, such as Xbox One X/S and Apple TV 4K, come with a Dolby Atmos MAT encoder, which is designed to encode, decode and incorporate Dolby Atmos metadata into lossless pulse-code modulation (PCM) audio, allowing listeners to experience Dolby Atmos even in PCM audio.
https://www.nakamichi-usa.com/the-ul...by-atmos-guide
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post #70 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:29 AM
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oh interesting I didn't know Xbox did the MAT thing too. do you know if thats just for video or is it for games as well?

Dolby MAT is listed as supported on the Sonos Arc so it remains to be seen if this Dolby MAT PCM thing is actually a flavor of multi channel PCM that the Arc supports
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post #71 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:39 AM
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The Arc is offensively overpriced as usual. Probably years behind in tech like the Beam was. Still no Chromecast capability (b/c Sonos is stubborn). No indication of 5.8 GHz Wi-Fi capability which is a baseline feature by now for avoiding congestion on unlicensed spectrum (and Sonos Wi-Fi radios are notoriously poor, with bad shielding). Amazes me that people keep buying into this Apple-like company for gullible consumers.
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post #72 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:44 AM
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here's where the community manager for sonos mentions the potential for DD+ atmos pass through over standard arc with apple tv, there is hope:

https://en.community.sonos.com/annou...l#post16426147
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post #73 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
oh interesting I didn't know Xbox did the MAT thing too. do you know if thats just for video or is it for games as well?

Dolby MAT is listed as supported on the Sonos Arc so it remains to be seen if this Dolby MAT PCM thing is actually a flavor of multi channel PCM that the Arc supports
I believe Xbox basically puts an Atmos wrapper around all audio it passes through to the receiver, so even if the game doesn't support Atmos you'll probably see the Atmos indicator light up on your receiver.
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post #74 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 12:05 PM
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I believe Xbox basically puts an Atmos wrapper around all audio it passes through to the receiver, so even if the game doesn't support Atmos you'll probably see the Atmos indicator light up on your receiver.
oh thats right IIRC you can bitstream Atmos as well
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post #75 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 12:07 PM
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No amount of wizardry will ever get the localization of sound objects that a discrete speaker system can do. Atmos sound bars at any price throw the sound in all directions and the room reflections prevent any way to reproduce the sound objects as they were intended by the movie's sound engineering team. So before investing in these type of products, look how mush effort to add (4) ceiling speakers to your home theater and a reasonably priced AVR. Some rooms don't have a place to install ceiling speakers, but many do and it isn't that hard to cut the holes and run the wires. At least consider it!
I don’t doubt this is true for Sonos but I’m hoping the upcoming Klipsch bar can do it. I’ve heard very convincing overhead effects from their bouncing speakers, but obviously those are larger drivers. Klipsch is more likely to give us DTS I hope.
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post #76 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 12:07 PM
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Do these come with wall mounts?
only another $80....
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post #77 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 12:12 PM
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I don’t doubt this is true for Sonos but I’m hoping the upcoming Klipsch bar can do it. I’ve heard very convincing overhead effects from their bouncing speakers, but obviously those are larger drivers. Klipsch is more likely to give us DTS I hope.
do you have a link or something for the new klipsch bar? I am eyeing a new set up in my office
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post #78 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 01:14 PM
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So it doesn't seem like my 2019 Samsung TV has eARC port. If I want to take advantage of the eARC port on the new ARC sound bar to use with the Apple TV, I can just buy a new receiver right? So TV -> receiver ---- eARC ---> Sonos for the sound and receiver ---- HDMI port ---> TV for picture passthrough?
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post #79 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 01:15 PM
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So it doesn't seem like my 2019 Samsung TV has eARC port. If I want to take advantage of the eARC port on the new ARC sound bar to use with the Apple TV, I can just buy a new receiver right? So TV -> receiver ---- eARC ---> Sonos for the sound and receiver ---- HDMI port ---> TV for picture passthrough?
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post #80 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cattyman407 View Post
So it doesn't seem like my 2019 Samsung TV has eARC port. If I want to take advantage of the eARC port on the new ARC sound bar to use with the Apple TV, I can just buy a new receiver right? So TV -> receiver ---- eARC ---> Sonos for the sound and receiver ---- HDMI port ---> TV for picture passthrough?
if you have a receiver why would you bother with a sound bar?
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post #81 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 01:49 PM
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post #82 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
if you have a receiver why would you bother with a sound bar?
Cause I still want the front speakers in the sound bar and wireless rear speakers. I live in a small apartment and can't have separate big speakers.

I'm still confused because I called Denon on the AVR-S950H and they said the eARC won’t output audio. It is meant to return the audio from the tv.
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post #83 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 04:28 PM
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The biggest complaint I have about Sonos (and we install a lot of their products) is WHO NAMES THESE PRODUCTS? As if Play 1, One, One SL wasn't confusing enough , why name the new Playbar "ARC". There is already, in reading this forum, plenty of confusion of ARC and eARC. So to throw in even more confusion let's call the product we are selling ARC. WHAT? Is this the best they could do. Even "Playbar II" would be less confusing. Anything but "ARC". What's the next one going to be called "eARC"?
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post #84 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:38 PM
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Hi guys! Sooo... I think I want the Sonos Arc with the Sub gen 3- probably look into the tears later. I just recently got an LG OLED 65CX which has eARC. Currently, I have an HTNT5 which is fine, but doesn’t support eARC- but does have 3 HDMI inputs. I have my Switch, Wii U and Xbox One S in there (TV has TiVo edge, PS4 Pro and Apple TV 4K and of course the HTNT5 sound bar coming out the regular ARC). The question is, are there any HDM 2.1 switchers/eARC switchers our there that would work with the Sonos Arc? I don’t want to have to start unplugging HDMIs in order to use my devices. Do I need a whole receiver to make this purchase happen? Any thoughts would be totally appreciated!!
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post #85 of 154 Old 05-08-2020, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hpmoon View Post
The Arc is offensively overpriced as usual. Probably years behind in tech like the Beam was. Still no Chromecast capability (b/c Sonos is stubborn). No indication of 5.8 GHz Wi-Fi capability which is a baseline feature by now for avoiding congestion on unlicensed spectrum (and Sonos Wi-Fi radios are notoriously poor, with bad shielding). Amazes me that people keep buying into this Apple-like company for gullible consumers.

Chromecast may be a while away if the lawsuit with Google doesn't wind up soon...
The 5Ghz WiFi IS on board and has been for a while, but not to connect to the WAN, instead it's used on new products to connect the sub / surrounds off a surround product.
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post #86 of 154 Old 05-09-2020, 12:18 AM
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Hi guys! Sooo... I think I want the Sonos Arc with the Sub gen 3- probably look into the tears later. I just recently got an LG OLED 65CX which has eARC. Currently, I have an HTNT5 which is fine, but doesn’t support eARC- but does have 3 HDMI inputs. I have my Switch, Wii U and Xbox One S in there (TV has TiVo edge, PS4 Pro and Apple TV 4K and of course the HTNT5 sound bar coming out the regular ARC). The question is, are there any HDM 2.1 switchers/eARC switchers our there that would work with the Sonos Arc? I don’t want to have to start unplugging HDMIs in order to use my devices. Do I need a whole receiver to make this purchase happen? Any thoughts would be totally appreciated!!
I have this question too and also just got a LG OLED65CX.
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Originally Posted by shoeboo View Post
If you search "apple tv bitstream" you will find that Apple TV converting everything to PCM has been a source of frustration for awhile, it is pretty black and white.


Do you know what TVs people are having success with Apple TV, Atmos, and older HDMI ARC? I left the caveat in my original post about the TV converting it, from my understanding some 2019 LG TV can convert lossless Atmos in TrueHD format to DD+ so that ATMOS can be passed over the older ARC, not sure if this also works with Atmos in MAT format.
I have lg oled65c8 and samsung hw-q86. The samsung is hook up to the arc hdmi and the appletv is hook into the lg TV hdmi 1. Atmos play fine on This setup. I think the sonos arc also Will play Atmos no this setup. Maybee lg is transkoding the signal to dd+ with Atmos.
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post #88 of 154 Old 05-09-2020, 06:24 AM
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besides the Atmos stuff I'm bummed that there is no support for multi channel PCM over eArc. I was hoping to finally get surround sound out of my switch with a sonos system
?



https://www.hdmi.org/press/pressresources
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post #89 of 154 Old 05-09-2020, 07:16 AM
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OK some info to help everyone understand this. A lot of people use the term pass through in regards to their TV and ARC, eARC or optical connection. Pass through is technically not correct because of how HDMI works. If your source devices (cable box, streaming box, game console, disc player, etc.) are connected to the TV, the TV talks to the source device and the TV tells the source devices what it has for audio and video capabilities. The source device will only send what the TV can handle. If your TV doesn't have a dolby digital decoder (some older TVs don't) it will tell the source it can only handle stereo so send PCM only. It then can only pass through PCM via optical, ARC or eARC. So if the TV couldn't decode it it could only "pass through" PCM because that is all that the source would send.

ARC canonly handle DD, DD+, DTS and stereo PCM. It can not handle multi-channel PCM.

Optical is the same as ARC but can not handle DD+, but because DD+ is backward compatible with DD it still gives 5.1 sound.

eARC is better at communicating with the audio device and the will "pass through" formats it can't decode like Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio, Multichannel PCM (ARC could only do stereo PCM) if the audio device is capable.

Now Atmos/DTS:X are different animals than DD and DTS. DD/DTS are channel based like 5.1, 7.1, 2.0, etc. Atmos/DTS:X are NOT channel based. Your receiver might be able to do 7.1.4 for four overhead speakers but the format is not encoded the same way. Atmos has information more like I want the sound to from the left from at 30 degrees to the back rear at 135 degrees and at what height. Think of Atmos/DTS:X like a bubble and it tells the processor where it wants the sound in the bubble and the processor figures out which combination of speakers to send it to. This is why Atmos/DTS:X is not converted to LPCM because they are not discrete channels like 5.1/7.1, etc. With higher end processors we can add more speakers and tell the processor where those speakers are in the bubble and it will figure out where to send the sound. For most receivers they just want you to put speakers in certain areas and it will process it based on those locations. This reduces cost in processing power.

So for your receiver or sound bar to get Atmos via ARC or eARC the TV must be able to pass through DD+. If an older TV it needs to be able to decode it as well or it likely will not be requested from the source. Most streaming sources use DD+ and not Dolby True HD due to bandwidth. It is not lossless sound like Blu-ray but still enjoyable, Blu-ray is really the only source that has the lossless formats.
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post #90 of 154 Old 05-09-2020, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by icespide View Post
besides the Atmos stuff I'm bummed that there is no support for multi channel PCM over eArc. I was hoping to finally get surround sound out of my switch with a sonos system
?



https://www.hdmi.org/press/pressresources
The Sonos doesn’t support it even though eArc does
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