HDfury ARCANA -- eARC adapter for Sonos ARC and Bose 700 Soundbars - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
We have come to a name approval, thanx to the members that follow our progress on this SONOS ARC solution from our discord server.

Please welcome: ARCANA

Allow you to get FULL AUDIO up to ATMOS over TRUE HD from ANY HDMI external source.
Compatible with SONOS ARC/BOSE 500/BOSE 700 and any eARC only soundbar/headphones
I'm ready to hit the buy button too! I have a 4k Integral no longer in use. Will I need to pull that out of storage to pair this with, or will it stand on its own?

My setup is pretty simple:

2016 LG OLED B6
Apple TV 4K
Sonos ARC

Also, any estimate of timing?

Thanks!
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post #32 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 08:13 AM
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Hi, new to AVSforum, just wanted to get some clarification, I have just bought The HDfury AVR key to get round the issue with the Sonos Arc and obviously discovered it did not work and that’s when I came across this thread. I was going to return the AVR key but am I right in saying that this dongle will work with it and therefor it’s worth holding on to?
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post #33 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tdubmn View Post
When do the pre-orders start? Count me in!
Pre order will start when we will be able to give a firm date that will be respected, that means ... SOON !

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebayseller98 View Post
I'm ready to hit the buy button too! I have a 4k Integral no longer in use. Will I need to pull that out of storage to pair this with, or will it stand on its own?

My setup is pretty simple:

2016 LG OLED B6
Apple TV 4K
Sonos ARC

Also, any estimate of timing?

Thanks!
Yes you can use Integral as a splitter for this.
For ETA, please refer to previous answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuey77 View Post
Hi, new to AVSforum, just wanted to get some clarification, I have just bought The HDfury AVR key to get round the issue with the Sonos Arc and obviously discovered it did not work and that’s when I came across this thread. I was going to return the AVR key but am I right in saying that this dongle will work with it and therefor it’s worth holding on to?
Yes it wil work perfectly with AVR-Key and any of our devices.

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post #34 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I guess you can find or try some on amazon (make sure you read reviews enough and avoid any with many low reviews), from us, i would recommend Integral2/Vertex1 for up to 2 sources, or Diva/Vertex2 for up to 4 sources, Diva can also forward volume control via CEC to SONOS ARC.

However, SONOS ARC can be controlled with TV remote via IR learning, so if that is suitable solution for you, there is nothing else special to consider than finding a reliable HDMI2.0b splitter.
Would your Splitter 4K UHD/PRO product work for this setup? Looking for 4K / HDR and Dolby TrueHD.

Nvidia Shield -> Splitter Pro Out 1 -> TV (Samsung Q9FN)
...................-> Splitter Pro Out 2 -> Arcana -> Sonos Arc

Will there be any CEC issues?

Thanks
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post #35 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
Would your Splitter 4K UHD/PRO product work for this setup? Looking for 4K / HDR and Dolby TrueHD.

Nvidia Shield -> Splitter Pro Out 1 -> TV (Samsung Q9FN)
...................-> Splitter Pro Out 2 -> Arcana -> Sonos Arc

Will there be any CEC issues?

Thanks
No if you use HDMI2.0B source and HDMI2.0B display you need to use HDMI2.0B splitter otherwise you will miss quality and content.

From us: Integral2/Vertex1/Vertex2/Diva/Maestro

You might find a working one on Amazon for 20$ if you are lucky, just be ready to buy/try/send back if not working, many cheap splitter just won't do well at max 18Gbps/600MHz signal and can have lot of other issue (like no 422 support).
You also need to make sure that you have good cable, shield supplied cable is good, but you still another cable from splitter output to TV input and it needs to be very good, (we recommend kabledirekt min 6ft/max12ft in copper, you can find it on amazon, look for their 4K120 version).

CEC to your sources will work, CEC for volume control won't work for SONOS ARC, you need to use IR learning ability of SONOS ARC, link posted in above post.
For CEC to work, there is work around possible if someone really wants it, we will explain it in visual diagram.
If splitter cannot downscale you also need to make sure the cable going from splitter output to ARCANA input is also of good quality.
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Last edited by HDfury; 06-19-2020 at 04:27 PM.
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post #36 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 04:36 PM
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I'm in the market for a soundbar for our Samsung LCD in the bedroom. Right now, we've got Blu-ray and AppleTV going into the Samsung, which does not have eARC, just ARC. Because of that, the only way to get lossless audio for Dolby TrueHD and Atmos would be to go HDMI in from the Blu-ray and AppleTV directly into the soundbar, yet most of the soundbars I'm looking at only have one HDMI in, plus I'd rather do my source switching on the TV, rather than on the soundbar.

Would your ARC to eARC adapter allow me to just connect the TV (ARC) to the soundbar (eARC) and allow lossless audio to pass through? If so, how to I get one!

Thanks in advance.
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post #37 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by leefarber View Post
I'm in the market for a soundbar for our Samsung LCD in the bedroom. Right now, we've got Blu-ray and AppleTV going into the Samsung, which does not have eARC, just ARC. Because of that, the only way to get lossless audio for Dolby TrueHD and Atmos would be to go HDMI in from the Blu-ray and AppleTV directly into the soundbar, yet most of the soundbars I'm looking at only have one HDMI in, plus I'd rather do my source switching on the TV, rather than on the soundbar.

Would your ARC to eARC adapter allow me to just connect the TV (ARC) to the soundbar (eARC) and allow lossless audio to pass through? If so, how to I get one!

Thanks in advance.
If your TV is ARC then your TV is ARC and there is nothing you can do to change that except buying a new TV.
What ever is your TV capability over ARC (5.1 or atmos/DD+ for some LG and may be few others) will remain forever unless manufacturer have a way and the will to upgrade it.

Solution discussed here (ARCANA) takes ANY HDMI output from ANY HDMI device and pass what ever sound format supported by the eARC device (typicaly SONOS ARC or BOSE 500/700), including Atmos over TRUE HD.

In your case, if you don't use SONOS ARC or BOSE500/700 you do not need the device discussed here, what you need is just Integral2 or Vertex1, you connect both sources to it and then bottom output to your TV input and TOP output to your SOUNDBAR input.
This way you will have full video to TV and full audio to soundbar.

If you need TV APPS sound back via ARC, you can connect soundbar output to TV ARC input or optical from TV to soundbar or optical from Vertex1/Integral2 to soundbar optical.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
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Last edited by HDfury; 06-19-2020 at 05:24 PM.
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post #38 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
We have come to a name approval, thanx to the members that follow our progress on this SONOS ARC solution from our discord server.

Please welcome: ARCANA

Allow you to get FULL AUDIO up to ATMOS over TRUE HD from ANY HDMI external source.
Compatible with SONOS ARC/BOSE 500/BOSE 700 and any eARC only soundbar/headphones
I'm really excited about this product. I am interested in purchasing the Sonos Arc, but I am also hesitant because of my older AV setup. Hopefully the ARCANA will be the perfect solution until I upgrade my TV. I currently have an old 2013 Panasonic T60 plasma with an HDMI ARC input. My TV is connected to an older Sony Blu-ray player, Roku Ultra, and Apple TV (3rd gen) via HDMI. With ARCANA, I should be able to connect these three devices so they will send FULL audio to the Sonos Arc without it having to pass through the HDMI ARC on the Panasonic TV, correct?
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post #39 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wegaboy View Post
I'm really excited about this product. I am interested in purchasing the Sonos Arc, but I am also hesitant because of my older AV setup. Hopefully the ARCANA will be the perfect solution until I upgrade my TV. I currently have an old 2013 Panasonic T60 plasma with an HDMI ARC input. My TV is connected to an older Sony Blu-ray player, Roku Ultra, and Apple TV (3rd gen) via HDMI. With ARCANA, I should be able to connect these three devices so they will send FULL audio to the Sonos Arc without it having to pass through the HDMI ARC on the Panasonic TV, correct?
You need a splitter/switcher/matrix upfront to accommodate all your sources and offer at least 2 outputs, then one output to your TV and one output to ARCANA > SONOS ARC.

If you want full audio from external HDMI sources and ARC all going to SONOS ARC, then you need Diva or Vertex2 + ARCANA (to insert it between Vertex2/Diva Audio out and SONOS ARC)

If using Diva you can also input 4K HDR and have it converted to 1080p SDR for PANA TV until you replace by 4K set (T60 plasma, very good model btw !)

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post #40 of 136 Old 06-19-2020, 07:43 PM
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Ugh...I need this Arcana asap! I’m almost ready to give up and just upgrade my tv since those 77” oleds sure do look Purdy! Lol

Last edited by cowboyatthisway; 06-19-2020 at 08:17 PM.
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post #41 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 07:17 AM
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Just want to get this straight. The cost of the setup will be at least $399 for the Diva plus the cost of the Arcana? Diva so that I can use external sources and the Arcana to allow for up to Atmos audio to my Sonos Arc.
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post #42 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 10:02 AM
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Just want to get this straight. The cost of the setup will be at least $399 for the Diva plus the cost of the Arcana? Diva so that I can use external sources and the Arcana to allow for up to Atmos audio to my Sonos Arc.
Wondering this myself too. Seems like this is going to be a very high cost to get Atmos sound from my Arc. Might not be worth it to me. Just atmos in general.
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post #43 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 10:49 AM
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Just want to get this straight. The cost of the setup will be at least $399 for the Diva plus the cost of the Arcana? Diva so that I can use external sources and the Arcana to allow for up to Atmos audio to my Sonos Arc.
You can use any 20$ splitter on Amazon, as long as you find one that works correctly, not sure why you would require Diva if you do not need any Diva feature.

And if you have an UHD BR player or any sources with audio output, then you would just need ARCANA and nothing else.
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post #44 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
You can use any 20$ splitter on Amazon, as long as you find one that works correctly, not sure why you would require Diva if you do not need any Diva feature.

And if you have an UHD BR player or any sources with audio output, then you would just need ARCANA and nothing else.
How does that work? Does that audio out on the UHD BR player pass audio from all other devices in the setup?
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post #45 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
You can use any 20$ splitter on Amazon, as long as you find one that works correctly, not sure why you would require Diva if you do not need any Diva feature.



And if you have an UHD BR player or any sources with audio output, then you would just need ARCANA and nothing else.


Can this be explained or a diagram posted?
I have a LG B6, AppleTV 4K, a Sony 4K Blue-ray and a SONOS Arc


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post #46 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 01:30 PM
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How does that work? Does that audio out on the UHD BR player pass audio from all other devices in the setup?
OF course not, that is an example in case you only have ONE SOURCE and in case that source have HDMI AUDIO OUTPUT as seen on many UHD BR players

So let's say someone have a PJ, an OPPO203 and SONOS ARC, then he would do OPPO203 > Video output to PJ / Audio output > ARCANA > SONOS ARC
And since OPPO203 also have an input, he could connect another source to it and that would still work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneGio View Post
Can this be explained or a diagram posted?
I have a LG B6, AppleTV 4K, a Sony 4K Blue-ray and a SONOS Arc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes there will be diagram, in your case if you want full audio from external HDMI sources SOURCES > SPLITTER > one output to TV / one output to ARCANA > SONOS ARC.
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post #47 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 02:28 PM
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OF course not, that is an example in case you only have ONE SOURCE and in case that source have HDMI AUDIO OUTPUT as seen on many UHD BR players



So let's say someone have a PJ, an OPPO203 and SONOS ARC, then he would do OPPO203 > Video output to PJ / Audio output > ARCANA > SONOS ARC

And since OPPO203 also have an input, he could connect another source to it and that would still work.











Yes there will be diagram, in your case if you want full audio from external HDMI sources SOURCES > SPLITTER > one output to TV / one output to ARCANA > SONOS ARC.


Ok great. So if I can’t fine a splitter somewhere else or my current does not work, which HD Fury one will work?
I assume if I eliminate the Bluray, then just new dongle for the AppleTV


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post #48 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneGio View Post
Can this be explained or a diagram posted?
I have a LG B6, AppleTV 4K, a Sony 4K Blue-ray and a SONOS Arc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The diagram in the very first post of this thread might help...
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post #49 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneGio View Post
Ok great. So if I can’t fine a splitter somewhere else or my current does not work, which HD Fury one will work?
I assume if I eliminate the Bluray, then just new dongle for the AppleTV


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post #50 of 136 Old 06-20-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Synomenon View Post

Hi guys - started an account with AVSForum just to follow on the Arcana.

Question for @HDfury - will it work with PC users?

I have a nvidia rtx 2080 ti plugged in to a monitor using a displayport.

I want to use the gpu's available hdmi port to connect to the arcana like this:

GPU>Arcana>Sonos Arc
|
Monitor

Currently my sonos arc is connected via optical toslink / optical hdmi adapter.

Cheers
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post #51 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 04:19 AM
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Really looking forward to this.

Just so I have it clear in my mind:

My TV (Only Arc) as below will plug into my HDMI splitter as in the link below, the splitter will plug into the Arcana, the Arcana will plug into my Sonos Arc and I will get full Dolby Atmos even though my TV is only Arc?

TV: PANASONIC - VIERA TX-58DX902B

HDMI Splitter: [email protected] HDMI 2.0 Switch 5x1 FiveHome 5 Port HDMI Switcher Support Auto Switch with IR Wireless Remote, HDCP 2.2,Full HD/3D

I have the sonos playbase but will be looking to upgrade to the Arc, but won’t be upgrading my TV for another year or two.
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post #52 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Beh View Post
Hi guys - started an account with AVSForum just to follow on the Arcana.

Question for @HDfury - will it work with PC users?

I have a nvidia rtx 2080 ti plugged in to a monitor using a displayport.

I want to use the gpu's available hdmi port to connect to the arcana like this:

GPU>Arcana>Sonos Arc
|
Monitor

Currently my sonos arc is connected via optical toslink / optical hdmi adapter.

Cheers
Yes sure, that will work just fine !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstothard View Post
Really looking forward to this.

Just so I have it clear in my mind:

My TV (Only Arc) as below will plug into my HDMI splitter as in the link below, the splitter will plug into the Arcana, the Arcana will plug into my Sonos Arc and I will get full Dolby Atmos even though my TV is only Arc?

TV: PANASONIC - VIERA TX-58DX902B

HDMI Splitter: [email protected] HDMI 2.0 Switch 5x1 FiveHome 5 Port HDMI Switcher Support Auto Switch with IR Wireless Remote, HDCP 2.2,Full HD/3D

I have the sonos playbase but will be looking to upgrade to the Arc, but won’t be upgrading my TV for another year or two.
if your TV is ARC then your TV is ARC and there is nothing you can do to change that, all your TV APPS will play at your TV ARC max which is 5.1 for most of them and up to atmos over DD+ for a few LG ones and may be few others.

what people are doing to overcome such limitation (or if TV have no ARC at all, like PJ or monitor)

is to play their APPS from external HDMI sources and there they can get FULL AUDIO, up to Atmos over TRUE HD


so all external sources > SWITCHER/SPLITTER > one output to TV/PJ/Monitor, one output to ARCANA > SONOS ARC.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
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post #53 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 06:13 AM
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Yes that is good diagram, however, i would recommend using AUDIO OUT for going to ARCANA > SONOS ARC, this way you can keep OUTPUT2 for another 4K display or other equipment if needed.
Also by using AUDIO OUT connection you can ensure that if TV have ARC/eARC support you can also forward TV APPS sound to SONOS ARC this way, while if you use HDMI AUDIO/VIDEO OUTPUT2, then you will only have full audio from HDMI external sources but no sound from TV APPS.
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post #54 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
We have come to a name approval, thanx to the members that follow our progress on this SONOS ARC solution from our discord server.

Please welcome: ARCANA

Allow you to get FULL AUDIO up to ATMOS over TRUE HD from ANY HDMI external source.
Compatible with SONOS ARC/BOSE 500/BOSE 700 and any eARC only soundbar/headphones
Is ARCANA part of the HDCP chain, or is the splitter the only device in the chain?
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post #55 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 09:48 AM
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Cable question

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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
(we recommend kabledirekt min 6ft/max12ft in copper, you can find it on amazon, look for their 4K120 version).
why a 'min of 6ft? Are under 6ft made differently?

Also I know you been asked but curious what the 'rough' timeframe is for having this device in hands of consumers?
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post #56 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave_O View Post
Is ARCANA part of the HDCP chain, or is the splitter the only device in the chain?
Sure it is ! for your splitter ARCANA is an eARC TV !

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Originally Posted by airbag41 View Post
why a 'min of 6ft? Are under 6ft made differently?

Also I know you been asked but curious what the 'rough' timeframe is for having this device in hands of consumers?
min 6ft or max12ft is same recommendation for 18Gbps/600Mhz cable you can find in many AVR usermanual.
too short have EMI issue, too long have integrity issue.
some 3ft can just work, anyway if you have a problem with it, the first thing you will be told is to try 6ft instead.

This is only important for VIDEO/AUDIO link and only if you are going to play 600MHz/18Gbps signals (such as 4K60 422 12b or 4K60 444 8b or 4K60 RGB 8b)
SOURCE > HERE > SPLITTER
SPLITTER > HERE > TV
SPLITTER > HERE > ARCANA

It is NOT important here: ARCANA > HERE > SONOS ARC
However cable from ARCANA to SONOS ARC must be compatible with ETHERNET, since that is used by eARC. Most serious cables are anyway.


Delay will be announced soon.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.
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post #57 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneGio View Post
Ok great. So if I can’t fine a splitter somewhere else or my current does not work, which HD Fury one will work?
I assume if I eliminate the Bluray, then just new dongle for the AppleTV
The ATV4K does not have a separate audio HDMI output. So you need a splitter or HDfury device.

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post #58 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 06:13 PM
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I think the confusion for me (and perhaps for others) is that the HDMI splitter one uses must have a matrix out with 2 separate HDMI outputs.

As stated, the TV’s built in ARC output cannot be changed. Whatever signal it passes out is the signal it passes out.. so the arcana must be connected prior to any television connection

So the easiest way for those with multiple devices is to have a multi in/multi out splitter. If this splitter itself supports an Atmos pass through then the arcana will be able to “trick” the Sonos into thinking it is connected to an eArc port and then output any atmos content as appropriate

Just my understanding anyway
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post #59 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 06:24 PM
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Where I get confused (sorry am not able to see how to edit prior post).. is that as stated this device would rely upon devices with HDMI audio output. As these devices get their audio extracted prior to connecting to television, what would need to be connected to the TV’s ARC port?

The Sonos would presumably be connected to the splitter and not directly to the television?
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post #60 of 136 Old 06-21-2020, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furqan8421 View Post
I think the confusion for me (and perhaps for others) is that the HDMI splitter one uses must have a matrix out with 2 separate HDMI outputs.

As stated, the TV’s built in ARC output cannot be changed. Whatever signal it passes out is the signal it passes out.. so the arcana must be connected prior to any television connection

So the easiest way for those with multiple devices is to have a multi in/multi out splitter. If this splitter itself supports an Atmos pass through then the arcana will be able to “trick” the Sonos into thinking it is connected to an eArc port and then output any atmos content as appropriate

Just my understanding anyway
A splitter by definition is always at least 1 in / 2 out or it is not a splitter, so you need a splitter with X number of inputs based on the number of sources you want to connect to it.
We have 1 in / 2 out, 2 in / 2 out and 4 in / 3 out available and you can find some starting from 20$ on amazon, if you are lucky and ready to buy / return in case of problem, you might find one working for the task at such price tag.
If you have HDMI2.0B source and HDMI20.0B display, then use HDMI2.0B splitter and it will support atmos and all needed format. There is of course lot of issues on many cheap splitters from amazon, like some do not support 422, some do not support dolby MAT, etc.. That's the kind of hassle you must be ready to face when you are going with the cheap brands on amazon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Furqan8421 View Post
Where I get confused (sorry am not able to see how to edit prior post).. is that as stated this device would rely upon devices with HDMI audio output. As these devices get their audio extracted prior to connecting to television, what would need to be connected to the TV’s ARC port?

The Sonos would presumably be connected to the splitter and not directly to the television?
No this device won't rely on HDMI AUDIO OUTPUT, if you have one source with AUDIO OUT (like some UHD BR player) then it can work at the source audio out directly and there is no need of anything else.
If you have more than one source to handle or if your source does not have any audio out, then you need a splitter.

And if you have a TV with ARC and you want TV ARC sound to SONOS ARC and Full Audio from External HDMI source, then you have 2 options:

1) Use Diva/Maestro/Diva with ARCANA

2) Use any Splitter with ARCANA + SHARC from thenaudio.com (SHARC will take ARC from TV and forward to splitter input which will then go to SONOS ARC), later we will have ARC-Key available which is similar to SHARC.

Maestro: 4I/4O +4K HDR over HDBT +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver. [Won Best Product Award]
Diva: 4I/3O +Ambient Light +Lag Tester +4K HDR > 1080p SDR +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +autoswitch +webserver.
Vertex2: 4I/3O +Autoswitch any sources +HDMI/ARC/eARC sound to AVR input +webserver.

Last edited by HDfury; 06-21-2020 at 06:57 PM.
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