Is 3D about dead? - Page 70 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2071 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by longhornsk57 View Post
no i get what you mean, and yeah we don't need to rehash that.

I think the one point we can agree on is your like/dislike of 3d has a lot to do with the equipment you viewed it on.
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post #2072 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 12:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by johnny905 View Post
Not to restart an old and well worn debate, but try it on a 4K passive 3DTV instead of active and I think your impression may be different. I had an active 3DTV for a couple years and once I bought my LG 4K 3DTV earlier this year my 3D viewing experience increased 1000%.
They are 5 of us in my family, so having powered glasses available at all times is a huge pain. Plus the ghosting I used to get on my active 3DTV was brutal. I'm sure newer model active 3DTVs are better, but for me there is no comparison.
Passive on a 4K 3DTV is just a much, much better viewing experience.
1,000% in 3D improvement (increased 3D viewing experience)... I want that! ...From Passive 3D glasses.

You think a 4K LG TV is equivalent to a Samsung 4K TV? ...Sony?
...In overall best 3D quality picture viewing experience...with less artifacts and motion blur possible.

Is yours curved? Is yours an OLED one?
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post #2073 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 12:32 PM
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I love my panny 65zt60 active. No cross talk or ghosting. Had a Sony 70" passive 2 yrs ago after 2 weeks returned it for the panny. Got the two battery op Panasonic glasses with the tv and bought 4 pair of the rechargeable when on sale for $19.99 also got a bunc of Samsung cheap. Love the tv love the 3D .
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post #2074 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 02:06 PM
 
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Rechargeable 3D active glasses for only twenty bucks is a very good deal. Every time I looked to get myself few pairs they are around $40-50 a pair.
So I just buy the replaceable battery type instead...for about twenty bucks a pair.

I will look again...this Christmas coming up. ...Because "3D" batteries are expensive over time...for a guy like me and his 3D entourage.
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post #2075 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 02:47 PM
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I have 10 pairs of DLP link glasses (rechargeable) I got for $20 each that I'd sell for $10 each . you can find deals on these if you really really look...
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post #2076 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
1,000% in 3D improvement (increased 3D viewing experience)... I want that! ...From Passive 3D glasses.

You think a 4K LG TV is equivalent to a Samsung 4K TV? ...Sony?
...In overall best 3D quality picture viewing experience...with less artifacts and motion blur possible.

Is yours curved? Is yours an OLED one?
I can't really compare to the other TVs as far as 2D image quality. I really bought it for the passive 3D more than anything, and the full HD per eye from the 4K panel. As well as the ability stream 3DGO which, at the time, was only available on LG in Canada. The LG model is 65UB9500. Not curved, not OLED. I've yet to even view anything in 4K on it, but I got a great deal on it and am loving it so far.
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post #2077 of 4200 Old 10-04-2015, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by longhornsk57 View Post
I have 10 pairs of DLP link glasses (rechargeable) I got for $20 each that I'd sell for $10 each . you can find deals on these if you really really look...
That's why I said that I will keep looking because last time I looked was about ten months ago or so...I know I will get them (3D rechargeable) for roughly $25/pair here on amazonian/Canadian territory. THX!

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Originally Posted by johnny905 View Post
I can't really compare to the other TVs as far as 2D image quality. I really bought it for the passive 3D more than anything, and the full HD per eye from the 4K panel. As well as the ability stream 3DGO which, at the time, was only available on LG in Canada. The LG model is 65UB9500. Not curved, not OLED. I've yet to even view anything in 4K on it, but I got a great deal on it and am loving it so far.
Thank you sir.
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post #2078 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Okay, gave it another shot with my Panasonic ST60 (active glasses) and Hobbit3 3D.... meh, I like the 2D better for less hassle and artifacts.
The 3D quality is very nice and the colors appear to match the 2D version, but I sometimes see some artifacts like smearing or "ghosting" or "haloing", plus the glasses require battery.
I always regret reading negative experiences had by some with the format. I don't know why you see artifacts because clearly they're not with the source. The Hobbits were all filmed in native 3-D and the first two had pristine transfers. I didn't see any of those issues when I watched it a few weeks ago. While again, I can understand frustration with the glasses, I always try to put things in perspective. We go to great lengths on a daily basis with charging cell phones - car chargers, solar chargers for the beach, mult-port USB chargers, so on and so forth. Is it really that big of a hassle to have to keep a couple of 3V batteries on hand for glasses you might only infrequently use?

I use rechargeable Panasonic glasses with my Sony. A 30 min charge yields 30 hours of use. That amounts to having to recharge them after roughly 17 movies. I don't usually wait that long. If I forget and one runs out of gas, a quick intermission to charge (or in your case replace the battery) will provide enough juice to get through the rest of the film. To me, it's no more of a hassle then having to remember to plug my phone in each night.

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Active glasses lose contrast and the LCD filter does not shut completely so there is still some bleed-through resulting in crosstalk between the eyes.
Again, I understand that's been your experience and am sorry it happens. I have none of these issues on my Sony and when I do (rarely), it's always been with the source (i.e., IMAX: Dolphins and Whales - not pretty).
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post #2079 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
[/I]People see it on an active set and then think they know what 3D looks like on a TV.
You need to see 3-D on a Sony 940C (active 3-D). You'll walk away thinking you experienced 3-D Nirvana.
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post #2080 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 06:59 AM
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3-D is NOT dead. In addition to the pleasant discussion about passive and active technologies, we have this: 3D half of $55 mil Martian open

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During the summer, eight 3D releases captured more than 40% of their opening weekend gross in 3D dollars, including “Jurassic World” (48%), Terminator: Genisys (45%), San Andreas (44%) and Avengers: Age of Ultron (42%), among others.

Upcoming this Fall and into the holiday period, RealD 3D movies include “The Walk,” “Pan,” “The Peanuts Movie,” “Good Dinosaur,” and “Star Wars: The Force Awakens,” among others.
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post #2081 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post
I always regret reading negative experiences had by some with the format.
Please don't take it personally.
I also said that it looks good, but sometimes I see ghosting when the images are far apart if i pause the image and carefully observe.
The reason that effects me the most is that a plasma contrast ratio is around 10,000:1 but through the active shutter LCD glasses can give around 700:1 (at best) and that is not why I bought a plasma.
The 2D image looks infinitely better, 3D is not my cup of tea with this TV and current glasses technology.
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post #2082 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Paranormal Activity The Ghost Dimension will be in 3D. It's converted. I think this would have been better if they had used an actual 3D camcorder. They could have used the Toshiba SK-3D7K which recorded to VHS tapes.
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post #2083 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
1,000% in 3D improvement (increased 3D viewing experience)... I want that! ...From Passive 3D glasses.

You think a 4K LG TV is equivalent to a Samsung 4K TV? ...Sony?
...In overall best 3D quality picture viewing experience...with less artifacts and motion blur possible.

Is yours curved? Is yours an OLED one?
As I have stated before I have an active 92" DLP Mitsubishi in the bedroom that I thought had the best 3D until I got my 84" 4K passive LG. Neither set has any crosstalk but the LG is much brighter and the 4K solves the vertical resolution being cut in half by passive. The 3D is better than the theater. Since I want the best 3D I went to Magnolia to observe a Samsung 85" 4K active set. I was impressed with the 3D and the clarity but it was not any better than my passive. You would be happy with any large 4K set but the passive glasses are so easy to use and cheap.
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post #2084 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 10:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post
You need to see 3-D on a Sony 940C (active 3-D). You'll walk away thinking you experienced 3-D Nirvana.
Ken Ross has that TV as well. And based on his observations, that thing certainly seems to be LCD that breaks all the rules, so I don't doubt you at all.

If only my local BB would get the thing in so I could see one.
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I'm very happy...to be part of this lovely 3D motion pictures experience...and it can only get better.
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post #2086 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NSX1992 View Post
As I have stated before I have an active 92" DLP Mitsubishi in the bedroom that I thought had the best 3D until I got my 84" 4K passive LG. Neither set has any crosstalk but the LG is much brighter and the 4K solves the vertical resolution being cut in half by passive. The 3D is better than the theater. Since I want the best 3D I went to Magnolia to observe a Samsung 85" 4K active set. I was impressed with the 3D and the clarity but it was not any better than my passive. You would be happy with any large 4K set but the passive glasses are so easy to use and cheap.
I went from a failing Mits 75" LaserVue to the LG 84UB9800. The Mits had great 3D and mind-blowing (albeit difficult to calibrate) color, but the clarity, brightness, and smoothness of motion in 3D on the LG leave my old Mits in the dust. The motion in particular has really spoiled me to the point that I seem to be much more sensitive to the slightly out-of-sync left/right eye images that are inherently an aspect of active 3D, even in the cinema. Especially when fast motion is involved. I did view a Samsung 4K active but I wasn't able to view any fast-action that would have revealed how well it handles fast motion in 3D. But at 3 times the price of the LG at the time, it was pretty easy decision for me. I've had it a little over year now and still lovin' it.
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post #2087 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Please don't take it personally.
I also said that it looks good, but sometimes I see ghosting when the images are far apart if i pause the image and carefully observe.
The reason that effects me the most is that a plasma contrast ratio is around 10,000:1 but through the active shutter LCD glasses can give around 700:1 (at best) and that is not why I bought a plasma.
The 2D image looks infinitely better, 3D is not my cup of tea with this TV and current glasses technology.
With all due respect, the ST60 was rated well for 2D. It was not recommended as a display for 3D. I was in the market for my 2nd 3D display and was considering the st60. At that time I excluded the st60 due to the poor reviews for the st60's ability to provide an adequate 3D image. Aren't you the guy with the Frankenstein display? Didn't you swap out boards in an effort to convert your device to something it was not?

http://www.cnet.com/products/panasonic-tc-pst60/2

3D: (Update, April 15: This section, along with The Bad at the top of the review, was updated based upon additional testing after the review first posted.)If you care a lot about 3D picture quality, the 3D performance of the ST60 is somewhat disappointing compared with its 2D prowess.

New for this year Panasonic has added three hertz values (96Hz, 100Hz, and 120Hz) under "3D refresh rate" in its 3D menu. Although described as designed to combat flicker from fluorescent lights, they also have a major impact on the prevalence of crosstalk. That bugaboo of 3D TVs, especially those that use active 3D technology, appears as a ghostly double-image around many onscreen objects.

The ST60's double image was least noticeable and objectionable in the 96Hz mode. During my favorite crosstalk tests from "Hugo," including Hugo's hand as it reaches for the mouse (5:01), the tuning pegs on the guitar (7:49), and the face of the dog as it watches the inspector slide by (9:24), the ST60's crosstalk was quite dim -- a better performance than the E6500, although not quite as good as the Sony W900, where crosstalk was even less visible. The three Panasonic plasmas, meanwhile, were roughly equal when I placed the ST60 in 96Hz and the VT50 and ST50 in 48Hz mode.

(When the ST60 is in 3D mode, the "Hz" values under "24p Direct in" in the Advanced menu are grayed out and can't be adjusted, apparently because they're superseded by the three 3D refresh rate settings. That's different from on the 2012 plasmas, which use this setting for both 2D and 3D. The new menu design tripped me up initially, so I originally reported that characteristics like crosstalk reduction can't be adjusted on the ST60.)

Choosing the 100Hz setting worsened crosstalk considerably, and the 120Hz setting was worst of all. This adjustment didn't seem to do anything else to picture quality, and I didn't test its effects on fluorescent light flicker.

The ST60's 3D was still worse than that of the VT50 and ST50, however, because of the way it handled quick motion. During the herky-jerky chase sequence beginning at about 7:19, for example, the ST60's images seemed to break up and confuse me visually, taking me out of the moment. It was worst when I paid attention to the legs of the running dog, the arms of the flailing conductor, or other bursts of movement. The effect wasn't overwhelmingly distasteful, but it was still worse to watch these scenes on the ST60 than on the others. I couldn't address it with any of the settings adjustments I tried -- for example reducing light output/contrast or changing any of the 3D refresh rate or motion smoother settings.

http://hometheaterreview.com/panason...viewed/?page=2

Conclusion
Once again, Panasonic has thrown down the gauntlet with its ST Series, providing stiff competition for the other TVs I'll review as the year goes on. I'm sure there will be other great performers, but I'm not sure I'll encounter a better combination of performance and price. As I write this, the TC-P60ST60's street price is below $1,500; no, that's not cheap, but it is a fantastic value for this level of performance and the TV's thorough assortment of features. For those who are shopping specifically for a 3D TV or have a room with a lot of direct sunlight, this model is not the ideal choice. For everyone else, though, I highly recommend you check out the TC-P60ST60.
When it comes to 3D performance, the TC-P60ST60 is sub-par. While the active 3D technology produces a rich, highly detailed 3D image, this TV produced a little more crosstalk than other plasmas I've tested. I experimented with all three of the 3D refresh rates (96Hz, 100Hz, and 120Hz) and found the 96Hz mode to produce the least amount of crosstalk, but it still did not get rid of ghosting as effectively as the 96Hz mode in last year's VT50 plasma. Of greater concern was the ST60's handling of motion; 3D content had an oddly disorienting quality of motion, which I'm only guessing has something to do with how the new 3D refresh rates are created (since this isn't a problem I've seen with any previous Panasonic plasma). I don't know how Panasonic is creating the higher refresh rates, but it doesn't look like they're simply duplicating frames, and the problem goes beyond just the super-smooth look of normal de-judder functions. It affected the sense of focus and perspective and made 3D virtually unwatchable for me in Life of Pi (20th Century Fox) and Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (Buena Vista). Furthermore, the TY-ER3D5MA 3D glasses that came with my review sample were too big and kept sliding down my nose. The ST60 does support the universal HD 3D standard, so you can use other manufacturers' active 3D glasses with this TV, but I really wouldn't recommend this TV for 3D.
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post #2088 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 04:36 PM
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. Aren't you the guy with the Frankenstein display? Didn't you swap out boards in an effort to convert your device to something it was not?
I am, I swapped the EU board with US board because the US board has 48Hz mode with the EU board lacks, and several other features.
But, the US board does not accept 50Hz signal at all, which I don't mind because I use the ST60 as a big secondary monitor with my PC to watch movies (madVR) and BluRay drive.
Mind you, the operation went flawlessly and after calibration the picture is fantastic.
I will try the 96Hz with 3D.
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post #2089 of 4200 Old 10-05-2015, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post
3-D is NOT dead. In addition to the pleasant discussion about passive and active technologies, we have this: 3D half of $55 mil Martian open

Some notable text from the article:

Saw The Walk in IMAX 3D, I dont think that movie should been scene any other way, well at least in 3d.
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Saw The Walk in IMAX 3D, I dont think that movie should been scene any other way, well at least in 3d.
I believe this is the most challenging 3D movie ever so far I've read about...for the viewers.
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post #2091 of 4200 Old 10-06-2015, 02:31 AM
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3D is not my cup of tea with this TV and current glasses technology.
How long to plan on keeping that display? I've read a lot of positive comments about how much improved 3-D looks on various 4K TV's (I didn't have 3-D with my previous 1080p set). Perhaps it's time for an upgrade? I'd also suggest you also experiment with different manufacturer glasses. If it's an active shutter system and the manufacturer is a member of the Full HD 3D Glasses Initiative, a different brand of Bluetooth glasses will be cross-compatible with your TV (I use Panasonic TY-ER3D4MU with my Sony). Throw in a region free, PAL, 3-D compatible player in you'll open new doors to a vast array 3-D films that you're sure to enjoy.
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post #2092 of 4200 Old 10-06-2015, 02:48 AM
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3doo just announced a solution for smart TV owners who can't download its app for streaming 3D films. It's Android app you download to an Android tablet that turns it into a media center. You then connect it to your 3D TV and voila, you can stream from its 3-D film library. Here's a link to the press release. It should be noted though that I was told by Sony that its 2015 lineup 4K TV's are not capable of streaming 3-D pending a future firmware update. I don't know if this solution by 3doo would be an effective workaround to the Sony bug.
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I wasn't even aware this was coming and have to admit that it looks rather interesting: The Jungle Book 3D Teaser-Trailer is Online.

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How can 3D possibly be dead with Star Wars 7 is coming out in 3D?
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Hopefully Disney will have a 3D Blu-ray for Jungle Book, a reverse of their recent policy.
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I watched Monster House (((3D))) last night...prettttty good.

* Star Wars 7 in 3D means only one thing: The Force is with 3D.
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3D image quality is surprisingly better with 3D than 2D

I've noticed 2D image quality is being surpassed by 3D image quality: 3D blacks are deeper, better contrast, better image detail and clarity. Of course there are exceptions. I use to hate 3D and have ignored it until recently.


"The Martian" 2D has overblown blacks and image detail is suffering from a lot of softness. The 3D version has much deeper blacks and much better image detail.


For blu ray, Gravity 2D is way too soft ... lacking much in image detail. The 3D version is fantastic ... I could not believe the difference.


The 2D version of the "Seventh Son" is very soft ... especially with distance shots. I just ordered the 3D version from Germany to see if the image quality is better ... I bet it is.


I've recently watch 15 3D movies at home and I would say 80% had better image clarity and detail than their 2D counterparts. I have a JVC 6710 projector with a 9ft wide screen.
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I'm envious, on my plasma the black levels rise in 3D mode. Obviously not the sources fault, just my TV's.
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post #2099 of 4200 Old 10-09-2015, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
I'm envious, on my plasma the black levels rise in 3D mode. Obviously not the sources fault, just my TV's.
Mine does too if you look at the set without the 3D glasses. With them on it looks the same as looking at the TV without glasses for 2D content.
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post #2100 of 4200 Old 10-09-2015, 12:44 PM
 
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On my plasma TV I have different video settings for 2D and 3D.

* With 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' in 3D I even manually adjusted the "Depth" 3D video setting, by a couple notches higher...to the right.

I too noticed with several Blu-rays a better picture quality in 3D than in 2D ... even with my very modest plasma display. ...Must have some' to do with my careful video settings.

I revisited 'SpongeBob' (((3D))) last night...pretty good 3D rendition...no way that I want to see it in 2D...just no way.
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