Is 3D about dead? - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 4253 Old 02-19-2016, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvh4 View Post
At one point there was a lot of hype on this site about a glasses free tech (called Ultra-D or something like that) that worked by installing a layer on top of the 4k display. The result was 3D in 2K and 2D in less than 4k, but I think better than 2K?

This seems to get around the HDMI standard since the on-board chip creates the 3D. This is where I get confused: I think there was info out there that said 3D sources would display the original right and left eye data - so not 2D to 3D conversion. That I assume would rely on HDMI and the Disc standards, so would the result be 1080p 3D, or upscaled 2K 3d? I would concede 2K 3D as a fair compromise and would easily pick that over 4k 2D. Could 4k 3D be possible on 8k displays in the near future?

The reason I bring it up is if glasses free TV becomes reality, not only could it bring 3D back from the dead, it may already have technological answers the the UHD standard issues - or at least force the industry's hand to update the standard.

Just a shred of hope on a Friday morning.

I've seen this tech at work, not Ultra-D specifically, but a glasses free tv that was a prototype. I can't say the brand or any other information relating to the tech being used for obvious NDA reasons, but I can say that the tech to make this possible in homes is very far away. The image it provided was very convincing in the effect of seeing a 3d image, but tilt your head or move side to side and the image would distort. Best way to describe the image would be like looking at the 3d hologram slip covers for blu rays where you have to look directly on to the image to see the effect. With that said, i'd say that the possibility is there, just not anytime soon since the viewing angles were extremely poor to non existent, unless you're directly in front of the tv.
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post #2612 of 4253 Old 02-19-2016, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The funny thing is that Ultra D tech is already out now and their was "Zero" discussion on here about it when it was released last year. I posted about it here. These are aimed more at signage but according to the specs they're full 4k and 3D and they are glasses less 3D. I don't remember if they were full smart screens, I could really care less about those features. I actually wouldn't mind just getting a basic display that does input and on/off, that's it --and of course 4k and 3D.

The prices are a little high on the IZON, like OLED 4k sets, but I think, given the advantage of glasses less 3D of these screens, you would think their would be a lot of discussion around here about it. I think everyone lost interest in it, because 1) it took to long and everyone forgot about it and/or 2) it was too late to the party even when it was announced. And maybe 3) those that want quality 3D to watch 3D Blu rays want the best 3D and that may not be with glasses less screens at least until the tech is improved. This is something that is going to take a long time to get right.

So there's one more display manufacturer to add to the list, IZON. I don't know if I would actually buy one. If I had a place for an extra screen I think it would be nice to have, out where everyone can view it and you could show off 3D on it and you wouldn't have to hand out the glasses. Think about it.
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post #2613 of 4253 Old 02-19-2016, 10:59 PM
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No, the Ultra D sets don't have smart features. They do have the advantage that they stay good even if you tilt your head or anything. They have a 120 degree 3d viewing angle, which degrades gracefully into 2d as you exceed it and view it from the sides (the screen itself has a standard 178 degree viewing angle).

The really nice thing is at no point does the image become unwatchable (short of adjusting the 3d controls to "throw up" settings) - at the worst, you get a perfectly watchable 2 d image.

That's why the first use is digital signage - viewers in the 3d zone (it's fairly big) get 3d, while everyone else sees it as 2d.

Compared to my new 3ds xl, which get blurry when it loses facial lock.
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post #2614 of 4253 Old 02-20-2016, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
No, the Ultra D sets don't have smart features. They do have the advantage that they stay good even if you tilt your head or anything. They have a 120 degree 3d viewing angle, which degrades gracefully into 2d as you exceed it and view it from the sides (the screen itself has a standard 178 degree viewing angle).

The really nice thing is at no point does the image become unwatchable (short of adjusting the 3d controls to "throw up" settings) - at the worst, you get a perfectly watchable 2 d image.

That's why the first use is digital signage - viewers in the 3d zone (it's fairly big) get 3d, while everyone else sees it as 2d.

Compared to my new 3ds xl, which get blurry when it loses facial lock.
The glasses-free tech is fine if you don't want or enjoy pop-outs/extensions. Ultra-D fails in that regard. The tech may appeal to some but the 3D is not as good as it is with glasses.i
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post #2615 of 4253 Old 02-20-2016, 09:46 PM
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I've had plenty of pop out with Ultra D, even at the muted default settings. I've cranked it up and you get a lot of it, but then it makes most people queasy after a few minutes. I turn it back down and it settles down. You have to realize that it stays in 3d mode for practically all content - you can turn it off, but the default operation is 3d even for 2d content (it features an excellent 2d to 3d converter).

So the defaults are muted which means everyone can watch it continuously without getting sick. But you can crank it up. And the pop out works well enough for me because I find window violations far more annoying than lack of pop out. (Window violations are highly distracting to me).

And let's say I cringe at going to the theatre - I like the high end showings and all that, but the glasses, ugh. I forgot all about the glasses. (And I wear glasses)
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post #2616 of 4253 Old 02-20-2016, 09:51 PM
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Watched Everest 3D tonight, loved it.
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post #2617 of 4253 Old 02-21-2016, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
I've had plenty of pop out with Ultra D, even at the muted default settings. I've cranked it up and you get a lot of it, but then it makes most people queasy after a few minutes. I turn it back down and it settles down. You have to realize that it stays in 3d mode for practically all content - you can turn it off, but the default operation is 3d even for 2d content (it features an excellent 2d to 3d converter).

So the defaults are muted which means everyone can watch it continuously without getting sick. But you can crank it up. And the pop out works well enough for me because I find window violations far more annoying than lack of pop out. (Window violations are highly distracting to me).

And let's say I cringe at going to the theatre - I like the high end showings and all that, but the glasses, ugh. I forgot all about the glasses. (And I wear glasses)
So if I wanted to watch a 3D bluray as the director intended, I could use the left/right eye info from the disc and the depth including pop out would be correct? In other words pass-through the 3D from the disc.
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post #2618 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
So now Samsung is out of the 3D TV market too?

Looks like Mark is no longer a 3D fan:



https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...d-tv-dead.html
Nothing but an anti 3D thread for sure...
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post #2619 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 09:06 AM
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Just my own 2 cents and opinions:
1. On a good well calibrated active set, or projector, there is NO flicker problem. Virtually ALL home theater projector setups- with a few very expensive exceptions- are active. The 3D is comfortable to watch, and great. From those of us who have these active projector theaters, I've heard no flicker complaints, period!

2. A good- and I emphasize GOOD- 3D movie is more immersive than its 2D counterpart. Given a choice between watching a good 3D movie in 1080 or watching it in 2D 4K, even with HDR, for an immersive experience, it's 3D hands down! However, I realize that some people are just uncomfortable with 3D and I get that, and respect it. I shoot and edit 3D, 4K, and 4K HDR, and that's the way I feel about it.

3.HDR 4K is just another tool but hardly a panacea and I don't feel it makes the image "pop" and feel more immersive than 3D. HDR needs to be used sparingly and will only be present in occassional scenes such as sunsets, sun peaking through clouds where there are highly contrasting foregrounds, ect, ect. Whereas, 3D is present through the entire movie. Much more of a window effect, overall. I'm presently working with a new system which is capable of creating 4K HDR timelapse and realize that I must use it sparingly and only on certain content which will have direct benefits, otherwise, it can look pretty lame.

4. For those of you who are unhappy about the fact that you must see the movie in 3D to get the Atmos sound, IMO, you're not missing anything by not having Atmos. Talk about gimmicky, Atmos is overrated, and way overhyped. Just my opinion, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about it and I've heard plenty of it at our local new state of the art IMAX theater. I've got a 7.1 channel system with 2 ceiling mounted rear speakers and, after experiencing Atmos, can find no reason to upgrade to it.

Last edited by Barry C; 02-24-2016 at 10:00 AM.
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post #2620 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
Just my own 2 cents and opinions:
1. On a good well calibrated active set, or projector, there is NO flicker problem. Virtually ALL home theater projector setups- with a few very expensive exceptions- are active. The 3D is comfortable to watch, and great. From those of us who have these active projector theaters, I've heard no flicker complaints, period!

2. A good- and I emphasize GOOD- 3D movie is more immersive than its 2D counterpart. Given a choice between watching a good 3D movie in 1080 or watching it in 2D 4K, even with HDR, for an immersive experience, it's 3D hands down! However, I realize that some people are just uncomfortable with 3D and I get that, and respect it. I shoot and edit 3D, 4K, and 4K HDR, and that's the way I feel about it.

3.HDR 4K is just another tool but hardly a panacea and I don't feel it makes the image "pop" and feel more immersive than 3D. HDR needs to be used sparingly and will only be present in occassional scenes such as sunsets, sun peaking through clouds where there are highly contrasting foregrounds, ect, ect. Whereas, 3D is present through the entire movie. Much more of a window effect, overall. I'm presently working with a new system which is capable of creating 4K HDR timelapse and realize that I must use it sparingly and only on certain content which will have direct benefits, otherwise, it can look pretty lame.

4. For those of you who are unhappy about the fact that you must see the movie in 3D to get the Atmos sound, IMO, you're not missing anything by not having Atmos. Talk about gimmicky, Atmos is overrated, and way overhyped. Just my opinion, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about it and I've heard plenty of it at our local new state of the art IMAX theater. I've got a 7.1 channel system with 2 ceiling mounted rear speakers and, after experiencing Atmos, can find no reason to upgrade to it.
You are 100% on-target on all counts. I've seen glasses-free "3D", heard Atmos demos, seen UHD...and have found all to be negligible at best! Going by this advance report, 4K is more trouble than it's worth for just a minor improvement: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=18524
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post #2621 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfergie View Post
Nothing but an anti 3D thread for sure...
What's a bit ironic is @imagic was the one driving all of the Ultra-D hype . . .

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post #2622 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jvh4 View Post
What's a bit ironic is he was the one driving all of the Ultra-D hype . . .
I still think it waivers, and then they gear up to rob our pockets of UHD 3D ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

As long as they keep selling blu-ray discs in 3D, and as long as I own a passive OLED that does 3D, I will keep buying the discs. I've already preordered Point Break in3D and NOT UHD. Blasphemy, I know.
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post #2623 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 11:47 AM
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Ultra-D impressions on ArsTechnica:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/0...n-3d-tv-again/
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post #2624 of 4253 Old 02-24-2016, 12:28 PM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by film113 View Post
You are 100% on-target on all counts. I've seen glasses-free "3D", heard Atmos demos, seen UHD...and have found all to be negligible at best! Going by this advance report, 4K is more trouble than it's worth for just a minor improvement: http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=18524
As far as I'm concerned, I find 4K useful- when shooting it- more so for its cropping potential with animated pan, zoom, and tilt crops, than for its additional resolution when viewing it in its full res uncropped form. The extra res just isn't that significant over GOOD 1080p.

Last edited by Barry C; 02-24-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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post #2625 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 02:31 AM
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Force Awakens Possible on BD3D

From the always reliable Bill Hunt of Digital Bits:

Quote:
Also, here’s something interesting, but we qualify it as rumor until it’s officially confirmed by the studio: We’re hearing from some of our industry and retail sources that you shouldn’t discount the idea of a Blu-ray 3D version of Star Wars: The Force Awakens from Disney, despite the recent decline of BD3D support by Hollywood and the leading CE manufacturers. We don’t know if a 3D version would be a wide-release or a retailer exclusive, or if it would be released day and date with the regular Blu-ray version or held for a later date. But don’t give up on a 3D version of Force Awakens in 2016 just yet. If there’s any title that would sell well in Blu-ray 3D, it’s this one (much like the Marvel films) and Disney certainly knows this. We expect an official announcement of the title in the 2 or 3 weeks.
Personally speaking, I didn't care for the film and had no intention on buying a copy. However, I will buy it in 3-D if not merely to show my support for the format.
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post #2626 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 07:36 AM
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Until a 3D version or UHD version of The Force Awakens is released, I will not be buying it.

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post #2627 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dfergie View Post
Nothing but an anti 3D thread for sure...

Didn't Mark abandon the Blu ray market entirely, selling off all of his Blu rays? This strikes me as nothing more than trendsetting to push digital content. I convert most of my content to digital but the source is usually always Blu ray as it's the highest content source available and I keep all of them for backup and special features. I view digital as it's more convenient for everyone else in the home to play back over Plex. As far as 3D Blu ray's it is the most available source for 3D so no wonder he's not a fan. I will ignore anything he says in regards to 3D and Blu ray going forward.
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post #2628 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 07:59 AM
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Yeah, I kinda thought he was the pro streaming guy. I get streaming is cool and easy, but my ISP sucks and I have about $8k in my 3.2 audio setup, lossless audio kinda matters to me...

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post #2629 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Didn't Mark abandon the Blu ray market entirely, selling off all of his Blu rays? This strikes me as nothing more than trendsetting to push digital content. I convert most of my content to digital but the source is usually always Blu ray as it's the highest content source available and I keep all of them for backup and special features. I view digital as it's more convenient for everyone else in the home to play back over Plex. As far as 3D Blu ray's it is the most available source for 3D so no wonder he's not a fan. I will ignore anything he says in regards to 3D and Blu ray going forward.
Exactly the same here in house.

The best being that I'll have all those 3d Blu-ray when my son's old enough to watch them is also a factor for me.

Maybe someday people will start looking for those old 3d BR like the vinyls trend that's going back to mainstream now. And then I'll be that cool old Dad that has all those vintage BR.
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post #2630 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 09:45 AM
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For me besides the fact that I love physical discs (lost about 2/3rd's of my collection in a fire though along with 2 of my 3 3D sets)I have 3D video from a Sony camcorder (that survived the fire)...
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post #2631 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcuslaw View Post
From the always reliable Bill Hunt of Digital Bits:



Personally speaking, I didn't care for the film and had no intention on buying a copy. However, I will buy it in 3-D if not merely to show my support for the format.
I am probably one of the only people in the country who has not seen this (I was sick of it even before it opened from every burger, insurance, car, cereal, etc. commercial was shoving it down my throat. (I'm just not as obsessive over SW as many others are.) However, I have every intention of buying it IF it is in 3D. If it's only 2D, then it's only a rental.
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post #2632 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 11:15 AM
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I am probably one of the only people in the country who has not seen this (I was sick of it even before it opened from every burger, insurance, car, cereal, etc. commercial was shoving it down my throat. (I'm just not as obsessive over SW as many others are.) However, I have every intention of buying it IF it is in 3D. If it's only 2D, then it's only a rental.
Well I had such a bad time in the theater watching it in 3D that I wish I didn't see it. That was One if not THE worst 3D I have seen in my life.

But I put it on the BAD THEATER never again 3D in there.....

I'll wait for you guys to valid the 3D implementation then I'll jump on board.
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If its Star Trek or Star Wars, its bought, even if its only DVD.

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post #2634 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 11:50 AM
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Saw SW TFA in IMAX 3D and I thought it was fantastic, though I too missed the sub behind my seat.


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post #2635 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 11:52 AM
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Well I had such a bad time in the theater watching it in 3D that I wish I didn't see it. That was One if not THE worst 3D I have seen in my life.

But I put it on the BAD THEATER never again 3D in there.....

I'll wait for you guys to valid the 3D implementation then I'll jump on board.
Had to be the theater. Even though I haven't seen it, those I've spoken to who have seen it have all said that the 3D was "pretty cool." Even J.J. Abrams liked it in 3D and found himself "surprised" at how much better some of the movie played in 3D. I'm not expecting this to be on the par with GRAVITY or PACIFIC RIM, but it should still be a great enhancement. We shall (hopefully) see.
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Yeah, I kinda thought he was the pro streaming guy. I get streaming is cool and easy, but my ISP sucks and I have about $8k in my 3.2 audio setup, lossless audio kinda matters to me...
What do you get?
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post #2637 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 01:19 PM
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I have 6mbps DSL from ATT at $57/month. Only other option is nothing or satellite. My speed is usually about 5.4 mbps and I can get 1080p Netflix after a couple of minutes, which will hold the entire program (usually).

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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I have 6mbps DSL from ATT at $57/month. Only other option is nothing or satellite. My speed is usually about 5.4 mbps and I can get 1080p Netflix after a couple of minutes, which will hold the entire program (usually).
I feel for you.


I'm really lucky in that section I live in a rural area and most of my neighbour have similar to what you have. I am the last house in my street to have both access to water/sewers from the city and High speed internet. We new about sewers when we bought the house but internet was a pleasant surprise as we never thought of checking first
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post #2639 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
I have 6mbps DSL from ATT at $57/month. Only other option is nothing or satellite. My speed is usually about 5.4 mbps and I can get 1080p Netflix after a couple of minutes, which will hold the entire program (usually).
I know that feeling. I've never went down the route of streaming services as my connection was a bit slower than yours. I had 5.7 syncrate but the throughput was 4.8. Soon as anything heavy went on it everything else suffered. Or would likely hinder what was downloading.

Now that I've just went on fibre today, streaming services still doesn't appeal to me. Even though I could get more speed. Maybe it is because for so many years of it teaching me to appreciate physical copies and their quality. CDs, DVDs, Blu-Ray, that I refuse to go down the path that those who have had these services from the get go and it is all they know.
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post #2640 of 4253 Old 02-25-2016, 03:58 PM
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I just punted on UHD today, hell Disney may not even support it... Im gonna stick with 2D and 3D 1080p for at least the rest of this year.

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