Real time 2D to 3D conversion -- It's here now, it works and it's inexpensive! - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 21Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 50 Old 06-11-2015, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,537
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
After testing Power DVD 15 with half a dozen movies, I would be worried if studios stopped producing 3D. Power DVD 15's realtime 2D>3D conversion is worse than even the notoriously bad Clash of the Titans postconversion.

As a reminder, here's how bad Clash looked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SczqgrYCOYI

Just like Power DVD, there were weird stretch marks on the edges of people's heads and the 3D was way too subtle. But at least the artists knew what was in front, mid and back- Power DVD and all other realtime conversions guess wrong on the order, it's almost a coin toss.
I don't find the 3D subtle at all.

Everyone reading all these posts on this thread should remember that they are just opinions. I would recommend that you see for yourself -- who knows it just might enhance the experience for you.

Also, Cakefoo claimed only a few years ago that post-conversion could never be as good as natively shot 3D. Well, so much for that claim. Pacific Rim is a great example of really good post-conversion; however, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, IMO, tops it and is better than just about anything I've seen shot in native 3D and its post-conversion. Never say never.

Here's a review of TMNT:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-ninja-turtles

And yes, two companies are fighting over patents for the conversion process:

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/04/24...case/id=57047/

When you read about the patent dispute you'll get an idea just how much the post-conversion companies are involved in all 3D films.

Last edited by Deja Vu; 06-11-2015 at 07:42 AM.
Deja Vu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 50 Old 06-11-2015, 08:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Frank714's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,503
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 973 Post(s)
Liked: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
And yes, two companies are fighting over patents for the conversion process:

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2015/04/24...case/id=57047/

When you read about the patent dispute you'll get an idea just how much the post-conversion companies are involved in all 3D films.
VERY interesting link, thanks for sharing it. So I understand that the Cameron Pace Group mostly or only provides real 3D recordings.

Would be interesting to see an overview list of all the various 2D > 3D conversion companies and films they converted to evaluate their individual performances.

"It is only about things that do not interest one that one can give a really unbiased opinion, which is no doubt the reason why an unbiased opinion is always absolutely valueless." Oscar Wilde
Frank714 is offline  
post #33 of 50 Old 06-11-2015, 09:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I don't find the 3D subtle at all..
There's no arguing the facts. At 25% strength, the onscreen parallax is only maybe 1/2 that of a standard Hollywood movie. Turn the strength up, and it starts to become even more painfully obvious the converter is guessing wrong on which shapes to be making. Which to me, makes no sense why anyone would want to dial it back down if they know it's not making anywhere NEAR the right choices to begin with. It's like, confusion for the eyes. We as humans know already where objects should be in a scene, where they should be relative to each other, etc. And when they're not where they're supposed to be, which is the case with autoconversion more than 75% of the time, it looks like ugly warping.

Last edited by cakefoo; 06-11-2015 at 09:13 AM.
cakefoo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 50 Old 06-12-2015, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,537
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked: 1060
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
There's no arguing the facts. At 25% strength, the onscreen parallax is only maybe 1/2 that of a standard Hollywood movie. Turn the strength up, and it starts to become even more painfully obvious the converter is guessing wrong on which shapes to be making. Which to me, makes no sense why anyone would want to dial it back down if they know it's not making anywhere NEAR the right choices to begin with. It's like, confusion for the eyes. We as humans know already where objects should be in a scene, where they should be relative to each other, etc. And when they're not where they're supposed to be, which is the case with autoconversion more than 75% of the time, it looks like ugly warping.
It's not about making sense to you -- luckily you don't get to makes choices for me. Supposedly I have free will and can make my own choices just like everyone else here. You don't seem to understand that -- what might be right for you isn't necessarily right for me. You might find a particular women to be beautiful and I might find all kinds of cosmetic fault with her. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

3D in the real world is subtle -- it's not like Hollywood 3D, which I find to be very exaggerated and often in your face. Most people like this and complain when the 3D looks more natural. Just look at a particular object and then close one eye and continue looking at the object as you open and close that eye -- it's subtle going from 2D (one eye) to 3D (both eyes). There are still lots of depth cues when using only one eye and that's why people who only have sight in one eye are still allowed to drive cars -- without any depth perception they'd be rear ending everyone else.

I guess 2D to 3D conversion is like junk food -- it's easy to find fault with it but it still doesn't stop a lot of people from enjoying it.
kimg1453 likes this.
Deja Vu is offline  
post #35 of 50 Old 06-12-2015, 10:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
It's not about making sense to you -- luckily you don't get to makes choices for me. Supposedly I have free will and can make my own choices just like everyone else here. You don't seem to understand that -- what might be right for you isn't necessarily right for me. You might find a particular women to be beautiful and I might find all kinds of cosmetic fault with her. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

3D in the real world is subtle -- it's not like Hollywood 3D, which I find to be very exaggerated and often in your face. Most people like this and complain when the 3D looks more natural. Just look at a particular object and then close one eye and continue looking at the object as you open and close that eye -- it's subtle going from 2D (one eye) to 3D (both eyes). There are still lots of depth cues when using only one eye and that's why people who only have sight in one eye are still allowed to drive cars -- without any depth perception they'd be rear ending everyone else.

I guess 2D to 3D conversion is like junk food -- it's easy to find fault with it but it still doesn't stop a lot of people from enjoying it.
3D in the real world is actually pretty strong, our eyes have a 2.5" interaxial. What PowerDVD does is similar to what I've seen from camcorders with less than a one inch interaxial.
cakefoo is offline  
post #36 of 50 Old 03-16-2017, 11:49 PM
Member
 
gold333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 19
This thread is right. It's amazing.

I just watched Tron Legacy on a 300inch projection Epson 3700/6700.

After that I tried the original 1982 Tron using 2D-3D in PowerDvD.

Blew me away, (don't know if it's because of the way Tron 1982 was shot (polygons, computer vertices, etc.)) but the 3D effect was amazing. It was much more pronounced than using the Epson's built in 2D to 3D conversion mode. (Which also works)

I was blown away that the guy who made it in 1982 would probably have never imagined a guy in 2017 watching his movie in perfect 3D on a 300 inch screen, in his living room.

Blew-me-away.

We now legitimately can watch (almost) any old movie in 3D. Apart from the fact that almost all new movies are available in 3D anyway.

And don't get me started on gaming. 3rd person games with lifesize characters with 3d depth. You're in it. And that's for all games ever made. We finally have a real life holodeck in our living rooms.
unretarded likes this.
gold333 is offline  
post #37 of 50 Old 03-17-2017, 12:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cakefoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 183 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by gold333 View Post
This thread is right. It's amazing.

I just watched Tron Legacy on a 300inch projection Epson 3700/6700.

After that I tried the original 1982 Tron using 2D-3D in PowerDvD.

Blew me away, (don't know if it's because of the way Tron 1982 was shot (polygons, computer vertices, etc.)) but the 3D effect was amazing. It was much more pronounced than using the Epson's built in 2D to 3D conversion mode. (Which also works)

I was blown away that the guy who made it in 1982 would probably have never imagined a guy in 2017 watching his movie in perfect 3D on a 300 inch screen, in his living room.

Blew-me-away.

We now legitimately can watch (almost) any old movie in 3D. Apart from the fact that almost all new movies are available in 3D anyway.

And don't get me started on gaming. 3rd person games with lifesize characters with 3d depth. You're in it. And that's for all games ever made. We finally have a real life holodeck in our living rooms.
Perfect? Heh. So what's native 3D? Perfecter? And VR-- perfectest?
cakefoo is offline  
post #38 of 50 Old 03-18-2017, 01:26 PM
Member
 
gold333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefoo View Post
Perfect? Heh. So what's native 3D? Perfecter? And VR-- perfectest?
With perfect I mean a 100% improvement on 2D.

Native 3D would be better obviously. Maybe 114% improvement? LOL.
gold333 is offline  
post #39 of 50 Old 03-24-2017, 05:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
unretarded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ventura Ca
Posts: 4,079
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1690 Post(s)
Liked: 2085
I see no problem with this if it makes you happy......


I am on a 3D strike anyway untill hollywood gets over this "artistic intent, reality" garbage.


If i wat more realisticreality, I shut the movie off and go outside or to the destination on the screen. No matter the artistic intent, it will never replicate standinf at the foot of everest in real life with on screen.


I want a break from reality and thats why I watch a movie....to be entertained.


Go to a few 3D movies and sit in the back and watch the crowd.......negative parralax is what entertains people.......people move iteractivly to duck a out of screen object and they all chatter for a second, then back to a catatonic state for the realistic 3D in the rest of the movie.

Stand out the hall after the movie and ask them what they thought about the 3D experiance and most will give you a 3 word reply...."it looked good, it was nice....not too bad".........

Then ask them about the pop out objects and they go on a 10 paragraph rant about how they ducked, etc etc etc,.....pretty easy to see thats what entertains the masses and the masses is where the profit/viability of anything is.

Videophiles do little to keep a format alive, it is the masses and the masses like pop outs.......

Good entertainment sells...........when hollywood realizes no one cares that the artists think that it is a gimmick, the masses want it.......no wonder it has not taken off better. The creators of the content are to blame.............


They have taken what the biggest demographic wants and given them the least of it, they have taken the creators tastes which buy none of it and let it dictate what happens cotent wise. It is basic business 101 failure.........well done 3d looks spectactular.

But for the most part, the masses want stuff flying out at them.........untill that thirst is satiated, they will never develope a taste for realism.

If I had watched 30 different movies that had stuff flyin out of the screen for 80% of the movie, I might be ready to refine my tastes for a more realistic version..........

3D pop outs are like beer, mosrt people drink beer.......realistic 3D is like a wine taster, the slim minority.............but if they never drink, they unlikly to ever be wine taster.........overwhelm our thirst for 3D pop outs and maybe you can get the masses on board for some fine wine 3D realism.

Most people are luke warm on realistic 3D, but are red hot for pop outs. We are talking the masses here, not the 1% who enjoy a fine glass of realism.

I want to be overwhelmed with pop outs, soo much soo, that I have to hit pause and stand up and yell like Rick Flair...........a constant barrage of effects flyin at me.


Link to Stereo Integrity SI HT 18 sub build......https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-pedestal.html
Speakers and subs for sale...https://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...kers-subs.html
unretarded is offline  
post #40 of 50 Old 03-27-2017, 07:13 PM
Member
 
gold333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
I see no problem with this if it makes you happy......


I am on a 3D strike anyway untill hollywood gets over this "artistic intent, reality" garbage.



They have taken what the biggest demographic wants and given them the least of it, they have taken the creators tastes which buy none of it and let it dictate what happens cotent wise. It is basic business 101 failure.........well done 3d looks spectactular.

3D literally adds a new dimension to what makes a movie for you. There's the story, the acting, the visuals and now the 3D application.

Yes, more directors use depth rather than have things fly out. But there is plenty of movies with stuff flying out. (Ghostbusters 2016, for example).

Having owned many movies in 3D I simply feel something is missing when I watch the 2D version.

But the topic was upscaling. It literally blows me away how good some movies look upscaled to 3D in PowerDvd. The original Tron for example (no 3D version available), upscaled to 3D looks exactly as good as the shot in 3D Tron legacy from 2010.

Even the old Top Gun movie, the 3d version, is amazing. Alice in Wonderland, Prometheus, Life of Pi, the Walk, all great 3D movies.

But even non 3D movies, the original Ghostbusters, Tron, you name it, they upscale great. Most require color and gamma calibration, but at this level you become something of a projectionist, with notes on the best settings for each.

Heck, even sports, you can even click 2D->3D in recorded Formula 1 races on PowerDvD and it looks like there are hyper realistic little 1:18 scale cars going around your room. (Barstool for scale)





Matt2026 likes this.

Last edited by gold333; 03-27-2017 at 07:16 PM.
gold333 is offline  
post #41 of 50 Old 01-04-2020, 03:58 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Would upscale a 720p source to 1080p improve the image vs lets say using a 720p native projector for 3d? this sounds counterintuitive but im no expert. Also can power dvd convert video game with the aid of a capturer or hdmi-in passthrough?

Enviado desde mi SM-N9750 mediante Tapatalk
chank88 is offline  
post #42 of 50 Old 01-05-2020, 09:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,496
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1118 Post(s)
Liked: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by chank88 View Post
Would upscale a 720p source to 1080p improve the image vs lets say using a 720p native projector for 3d? this sounds counterintuitive but im no expert. Also can power dvd convert video game with the aid of a capturer or hdmi-in passthrough?

Enviado desde mi SM-N9750 mediante Tapatalk
While you won't get any more detail info in the image, the more pixels will improve sharpness and quality of the image. I create all of my homebrew 3D in 720p x 60fps bluray, simply to get the improved frame rate to avoid 24fps judder and the images are great.
3DBob is offline  
post #43 of 50 Old 01-05-2020, 10:38 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
While you won't get any more detail info in the image, the more pixels will improve sharpness and quality of the image. I create all of my homebrew 3D in 720p x 60fps bluray, simply to get the improved frame rate to avoid 24fps judder and the images are great.
Would you say this is applicable for all upscaling aslong as there is no noise introduced? or in particular just your bd 3d application? i keep hearing 1080p upscaled 4k, on 4k monitor looks better on top range TV's. But on the other hand 4k hdr in particular content downscaled to 1080p in a monitor looks better depending on who you ask because sharpness and most of the punch is the hdr not the res.. as i said confusings since and you sacrifice real state for sharpness.. considering viewing distance is a catch 22.

So, in other words. given the choice of a 720p or 1080 native pj, and a 720p source, is always better to upscale and go for a 1080p pj ?

I was of the idea that improvements came from fhd to uhd only, and particularly with good ups aling algorythms and that it was always better native content or a ligjt downscale for sharper image. Cheers!

Enviado desde mi SM-N9750 mediante Tapatalk
chank88 is offline  
post #44 of 50 Old 01-05-2020, 10:40 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Sorry for the grammar, will edit later.

Enviado desde mi SM-N9750 mediante Tapatalk
chank88 is offline  
post #45 of 50 Old 01-06-2020, 06:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
3DBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Southeastern Michigan
Posts: 2,496
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1118 Post(s)
Liked: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by chank88 View Post
So, in other words. given the choice of a 720p or 1080 native pj, and a 720p source, is always better to upscale and go for a 1080p pj ?
Always choose the highest native projector. 1080p projectors are relatively cheap today. HDR does enhance sharpness, but simply because it raises the detail in what are normally dull-contrast areas with a little apparent detail due to the lack of contrast. I have 4K 3D projector (3D is done in 1080p) and showing 720p 60fps is very satisfying due to the apparent upscaling to 1080p 60fps for 3D.
3DBob is offline  
post #46 of 50 Old 01-14-2020, 02:59 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ScottAvery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Great Falls, VA
Posts: 1,963
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by unretarded View Post
Most people are luke warm on realistic 3D, but are red hot for pop outs. We are talking the masses here, not the 1% who enjoy a fine glass of realism.

I want to be overwhelmed with pop outs, soo much soo, that I have to hit pause and stand up and yell like Rick Flair...........a constant barrage of effects flyin at me.

I agree with the statement and am saddened by it as well, as sometime in the last couple of years I have lost the ability to see negative parallax in 3d presentations. I spent a long time trying to tweak my projection set up to fix it, until finally one day my wife said it was right in her face, yet I saw nothing. I can just see a hint of it, so I know when I am missing something.
ScottAvery is offline  
post #47 of 50 Old 01-21-2020, 04:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 29
I just ran into this thread and I'm intrigued. What kind of PC are we talking here. Obviously a bluray 3d capable disk drive, but what kind of video card. An HDMI port will be a requirement, but are all video cards 3d capable? I've never considered a 3d capable PC but I am now. I need to be educated. Thanks.
bjones8103 is offline  
post #48 of 50 Old 01-23-2020, 03:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NW USA
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjones8103 View Post
I just ran into this thread and I'm intrigued. What kind of PC are we talking here. Obviously a bluray 3d capable disk drive, but what kind of video card. An HDMI port will be a requirement, but are all video cards 3d capable? I've never considered a 3d capable PC but I am now. I need to be educated. Thanks.
Any Bluray drive will do, there is no "3D capable". Any non-antique video card can do 3D (AMD HD 5450+, NVidia GT 430+, Intel HD 2100+; should have HDMI 1.4+). You will need 3D capable player: MPC-HC/BE is free, needs decryption remover for Bluray*; for 2D to 3D conversion and menus you will need PowerDVD 12+. With those video cards, there is not much demand on the CPU. Good luck!

Edit: * also needs external LAV 3D filters and MadVR last time I looked

Last edited by Roussi; 01-23-2020 at 03:41 PM.
Roussi is offline  
post #49 of 50 Old 02-14-2020, 09:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roussi View Post
Any Bluray drive will do, there is no "3D capable". Any non-antique video card can do 3D (AMD HD 5450+, NVidia GT 430+, Intel HD 2100+; should have HDMI 1.4+). You will need 3D capable player: MPC-HC/BE is free, needs decryption remover for Bluray*; for 2D to 3D conversion and menus you will need PowerDVD 12+. With those video cards, there is not much demand on the CPU. Good luck!

Edit: * also needs external LAV 3D filters and MadVR last time I looked
I just bought Power DVD 19 on sale for Valentine's Day for $59.00. I set it up tonight and compared "Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle" between the 2D bluray being upscaled through my laptop with the 3d disk fed to an Oppo BD 103 with the movie being projected to a 90" screen. The Power DVD upscale was impressive to say the least. Not nearly as good as the Oppo but very watchable. The big loss is in the audio and that's with the computer being channeled through a DAC en route to my AVR. It looks like I'll finally get to watch "Alpha" in 3D. You gotta' love it.

Last edited by bjones8103; 02-14-2020 at 09:26 PM.
bjones8103 is offline  
post #50 of 50 Old 02-16-2020, 07:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 29
With the decline in the production of 3d movies and the increase in streaming it's becoming obvious that 3d, at least in the near future, is going to become a do it yourself project. I've built a number of computers but I'm by no means computer savvy when it comes to the actual operations. Does any one know of any graphic cards that may enhance 2d to 3d conversion software, or could maybe a VR card help?

I own a number of low end to medium grade projectors and presently my go to projector for 3d is an Optoma ZH403. This is a business type projector with a laser engine ($1200) that is not intended for cinema projection. I purchased it primarily for gaming. It does do 3d well, depending on the source, primarily because it is somewhat of a light canon. This is enhanced by the fact that I'm projecting to a 90" screen from a throw distance of 8.5 ft. I'd like to hear what others are using for 3d projection and how it's working out.

3d glasses are another issue. I own 4 different types of DLP 3d glasses of which only two types work with the 403. None are what I call "quality" glasses. I'm looking for suggestions. Are there any quality 3d glasses? Would RF be better?

I own about 200 bluray 3d movies but I looking for new sources. The studios maybe going away from 3d but I'm not. I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by bjones8103; 02-16-2020 at 07:29 AM.
bjones8103 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 3D Content

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off