IMAX 3D to Dwindle in North America - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 03:59 PM
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You are absolutely on target, which is why I loathe most people in the A/V arena (especially writers). And it's true, nobody gives a crap about Atmos or DTS:X. If both vanished tomorrow, there would not be 13000 complaints. And...in fact, no one (outside of A/V sites) gives a crap about 4K either. And most (like me) find it much ado about very little...probably the weakest excuse of a so-called "upgrade" I've ever seen. (And some directors despise it as well.)

Yet the A/V industry puts out PRs hyping the most insignificant aspects. For example, a few days ago, there was a press release praising the "great success" of UHD because GHOST IN THE SHELL had an 11% market share one week. That is sold as "gangbusters!" to the UHD acolytes and they swallow it without question. (And of course, when EQUALLY available, 3D outsells 4K, as seen on the Amazon sales listings for that title). Of course, when 3D titles were available and getting 20% - 33% market share, you never heard a word! No articles of press releases praising the large market gains in 3D. Instead, there were the usual "3D must die", "3D doesn't sell" and other similar writings from will-never-visit-again sites like C/Net and others. Heck, even AVS no longer reviews 3D discs but heaps praise on every negligible UHD disc released. (No offense to the reviewers here, whose work I've enjoyed and respected in the past, but I no longer bother with even reading the reviews now...they are aimed at the choir and so hold little interest for me.)

Having both formats, I almost never buy a 4K disc. Most of them are barely different from an up-rezzed BD (and some are actually worse but still get praised) and none even come close comparing to 3D (which often has better sharpness and shadow detail than a standard 2D BD) for a movie experience. Like you, I've seen and had a few demos and, like you, all preferred the 3D presentation over 4K...100% of the time! Aesthetically, 3D is the real advance in home video. (HDR is just a gimmick that alters a movie, making it look "different" but not accurate in relation to the theatrical presentation.) And if writers and other so-called "experts" had an ounce of integrity or ethics, they would have been applauding the 3D now seen on passive sets and championing it just as much as they do 4K. They should be arguing for its continuation. But they aren't and they won't.

So yes...3D is indeed being killed and it has NOTHING to do with consumer demand. It is 100% industry-driven and why I pay no attention to anything the industry praises, no matter how detailed. The consumer and the home theater experience is the last thing they care about so I'm certainly not going to care what they say about Set A being better than Set B. Instead, I rely on the opinions of others who are not in those positions (as well as my own eyes/ears) to make my purchasing decisions. (And yes, GitM 3D is easily superior to the 4K and 1080p versions. Not even a contest.)

As for IMAX, I've seen some pretty crappy 3D presentations at those theaters in the past 2 years. If they can't be bothered to display them in the best possible manner, its okay by me if they cut it back since I won't be seeing movies there as often as in the past. (Time was IMAX guaranteed the pinnacle of movie presentation quality...today, not so much.)

Money my friend is the driving force. 3D is done for now in terms of marketing . 4K, HDR, HDR10, Atmos, Dolby vision, Laser Light, Rec 2020 , Infinite contrast and so on are the tools of todays marketing ploys . This forum is geared to make money by creating hype and generating interest for extraction of the almighty dollar . Everyone already owns a 3D capable TV or projector, to generate sales new technologies have to be dangled in front of the masses and it works . Articles like this one generates a little bit of hype and actually gets more people involved, talking about , even arguing the matter. In the end people stay engaged and then ultimately will buy new technology or upgrades
and that is what it's all about . No one is trying to oust 3D, they are just trying to keep us engaged . Membership is free and the owners are not doing this our of the goodness of their hearts or for the pure love of the industry. It's a business plain and simple .


3D is solid and not going anywhere, it certainly works to get everyone stirred up and engaged though and that my friend is great for business . 3D has been dying for as long as I can remember, the longest Hollywood death in history .
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post #242 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 04:04 PM
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OF COURSE it's BS. It is all agenda-driven and that is something I've always been immune to. No genuine reason whatsoever to suddenly eliminate Atmos from 3D discs. (Seems like they had plenty of room before UHD came along.)

Fury is the answer. Removes the HDR, player runs SDR , you still get the Atmos. Yes, they are forcing your hand. Two options are don't buy or get the Fury and beat them at their own game . Either way sales still happen which is the business of the forum and I wouldn't be surprised to know HD Fury and Atmos are in this together. Either way they have your dollar at the end of the day.

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post #243 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 04:10 PM
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ROFLZ!!

How is buying an HDFury "beat them at their own game"?
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post #244 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 04:15 PM
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Funny you mentioning this.

My wife and I just re-watched this one last week.



Richard

I may have to watch it again tonight actually. I watched this first time on my JVC RS600 that scene was spectacular . Can't remember if I watched it on the Sony VW675, will give it a go tonight . Rogue One is nothing short of spectacular running this 4K with FI and 3D. Like it was made for this, best application of these technologies all working together nearly perfectly .
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post #245 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 04:48 PM
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I may have to watch it again tonight actually. I watched this first time on my JVC RS600 that scene was spectacular . Can't remember if I watched it on the Sony VW675, will give it a go tonight . Rogue One is nothing short of spectacular running this 4K with FI and 3D. Like it was made for this, best application of these technologies all working together nearly perfectly .

Just watch "The Walk" 3D for the first time last night.

I didn't enjoy the story/acting all that much, but the 3D was awesome - especially when he's on the wire. You almost feel like you're right up there with him, cool!



Richard

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post #246 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 04:50 PM
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3D is solid and not going anywhere, it certainly works to get everyone stirred up and engaged though and that my friend is great for business . 3D has been dying for as long as I can remember, the longest Hollywood death in history .
It's not solid at home. Try and buy new movie releases in 3D in the US. They don't exist. You have to buy them from Europe. How long until they quit there? What do you do when your 3D TV dies? Your 3D collection dies with it. I'd call that killing 3D off, personally.
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post #247 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 05:24 PM
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ROFLZ!!

How is buying an HDFury "beat them at their own game"?

I think the guy indicated he did not want to buy new, the fury allows him to use newer formats with older equipment. You
don't have to buy new TV/Projector , still access SDR rec2020 and atmos audio from the 4K HDR disc.


HD Fury Intregral converts HDCP2.2 to HDCP1.4 for older TV/projectors .
HDfury Integral can extract HDMI audio up to 5.1 and pass-thru any sound format including Atmos via HDMI.


Is that not beating the upgrade requirement still getting most of the benefits ?

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post #248 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 05:26 PM
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It's not solid at home. Try and buy new movie releases in 3D in the US. They don't exist. You have to buy them from Europe. How long until they quit there? What do you do when your 3D TV dies? Your 3D collection dies with it. I'd call that killing 3D off, personally.

I take it you don't like 3D . Don't buy it, it's going to be an option for a long long time .

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post #249 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 05:54 PM
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I think the guy indicated he did not want to buy new, the fury allows him to use newer formats with older equipment. You
don't have to buy new TV/Projector , still access SDR rec2020 and atmos audio from the 4K HDR disc.


HD Fury Intregral converts HDCP2.2 to HDCP1.4 for older TV/projectors .
HDfury Integral can extract HDMI audio up to 5.1 and pass-thru any sound format including Atmos via HDMI.


Is that not beating the upgrade requirement still getting most of the benefits ?
You still have to buy not only a UHD player but the software. The very act of participating in this hobby.... ie: buying a movie is very much the opposite of "sticking it to the man!".



Btw, I don't have a UHD/4K display. I do have an OPPO203 player and a Yamaha 5100 but my display is 1080p. Guess what? I get Dolby Atmos and a 1080p picture from UHD discs. No HDFury required.
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post #250 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 06:03 PM
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I take it you don't like 3D . Don't buy it, it's going to be an option for a long long time .
Hmmm, let's see, I bought 55 3D BDs in the past month since getting my Epson 3100 projector and bought 4 pairs of 3D glasses. Yes, I HATE 3D.

It doesn't change the reality ZERO TVs next year will have 3D in the US (save projectors) and that almost all new 3D BD releases are not available here anymore. Solid? Please.
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post #251 of 313 Old 08-08-2017, 08:45 PM
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I take it you don't like 3D . Don't buy it, it's going to be an option for a long long time .
Hmmm, let's see, I bought 55 3D BDs in the past month since getting my Epson 3100 projector and bought 4 pairs of 3D glasses. Yes, I HATE 3D.

It doesn't change the reality ZERO TVs next year will have 3D in the US (save projectors) and that almost all new 3D BD releases are not available here anymore. Solid? Please.
First, you do not know what features TV's will have next year. you might very well be right, but there is also always a possibility that one or two models could have 3d (if they're smart). As for new 3d titles not getting released, I see that Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, and Planet of the Apes, and Transformers are getting domestic 3D releases. The Mummy is not, but that is no loss because the 3D on that movie is reportedly virtually non-existent. And the Disney titles, I'm not interested in. Also, I'm not even mentioning ( well, I guess I am now) the new releases of classic 3D titles from the past such as the Maze and Gun Fever (as well as the rumored Return of the Creature) coming in the U.S. To be honest, I don't think I could afford too many more!
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post #252 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 04:45 AM
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Just finished watching...

Titanic 3D

They did a very good job with this post-conversion (considering how old the movie is - the original came out in 2009).



Richard
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I just saw Dunkirk in 70MM IMAX. Yes the picture was big and detailed. Beyond that? It was dim, and everything looked really, really flat as a result. I'm not nostalgic, so to me it was an exercise in anachronism.

I'll take 3D, or at least HDR contrast and the extra sense of depth it gives, over the overhyped "film IMAX" presentation. Just like I choose digital music recordings over vinyl records.

I'm happy enough to witness the "glory" of film one more time, but it's a reminder to me that technology has moved on.

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post #254 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 05:06 AM
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You still have to buy not only a UHD player but the software. The very act of participating in this hobby.... ie: buying a movie is very much the opposite of "sticking it to the man!".



Btw, I don't have a UHD/4K display. I do have an OPPO203 player and a Yamaha 5100 but my display is 1080p. Guess what? I get Dolby Atmos and a 1080p picture from UHD discs. No HDFury required.
Excellent, I applaud you. Many jump on the upgrade wagon so quickly only to get very little more than what they had before. I only just sold my Oppo103D replaced it with Oppo 203 , a fantastic player indeed. I also have the Panasonic UB900 also a good player but the Oppo is my go to.

Many will appreciate knowing 1080P and Atmos is available using the Oppo 203 instead of the HDFury. I suggested the HDfury because it is the cheaper option for those on a budget. My radiance pro 4440 can also do this
but that is not a budget friendly piece of equipment .

Thanks for the info .

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post #255 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 06:19 AM
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Just finished watching...

Titanic 3D

They did a very good job with this post-conversion (considering how old the movie is - the original came out in 2009).



Richard
Mr. Cameron filmed this movie with 3D in mind but didn't have the technology , cameras or maybe the theaters not set up to pull it off as I recall. This is why the movie works so well transferred to 3D . Some of
the CGI is noticeably early generation but the guy was a leader at the time.

I did watch The Force Awakens last night by the way. The Star Destroyer pop-out moment was every bit what I remembered , seemed even better. The VW675 up-scales 1080 to 4K for 3D and it shows, the detail
is there , lost nothing in blacks the destroyer itself just seemed to have more detail .

By the way, The Force Awakens is # 3 highest grossing movie of all time. # 1 Avatar, # 2 Titanic . Both directors, Scorsese included were not fans of 3D originally because they did not like the way studios were transferring to 3D just to bolster sales . All of these directors have embraced 3D, even Abrams quoted this :

Speaking ahead of The Force Awakens launch, Abrams said: “When I was watching the reels in 3D, there were a number of shots - and I know this sounds insane - that I hadn’t understood in the three-dimensional space quite the way I did when I saw them in 3D. I actually felt that there were things that were playing better in 3D. I had never felt that before."



Done right, nothing rivals the immersion and depth 3D brings because it is the way we see naturally. 2D in fact is unnatural, but we are used to the flat process and blur of 24fps. High frame rates , 3D are putting the realism

back .



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post #256 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 06:42 AM
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Hmmm, let's see, I bought 55 3D BDs in the past month since getting my Epson 3100 projector and bought 4 pairs of 3D glasses. Yes, I HATE 3D.

It doesn't change the reality ZERO TVs next year will have 3D in the US (save projectors) and that almost all new 3D BD releases are not available here anymore. Solid? Please.
3D is not selling new TV panels , most already have 3D, the processing power is used for other features . If the industry wants to sell new TV panels it will have to be based on other technologies , bigger and better .
3D is not a feature on new TV panels because it's a dead format, the feature is just not going to entice a person to buy something they already possess. I have two flat panel TV's that both have 3D, I have never watched 3D on either nor did I buy them based on 3D as a feature. I purchased mostly on size first. 3D I only do in a dedicated theater on a large screen that makes the immersion work and that includes 2D , not just 3D.

We live in a world of evolving technology that changes faster than product fails, it's actually designed this way . People replace product for newer technology , not because the old is worn out , the manufactures know precisely how to exploit our eagerness to replace .

No surprise to me that 3D is not a feature on new flat panels , in fact most see the feature as a waste of processing power and I would have to agree. It's not the end of times for 3D however and mark my word that the cycle will
return for 3D on panels when the manufacturers see it as an advantage once again.

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post #257 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 12:49 PM
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Just watch "The Walk" 3D for the first time last night.

I didn't enjoy the story/acting all that much, but the 3D was awesome - especially when he's on the wire. You almost feel like you're right up there with him, cool!



Richard
A friend of mine actually got dizzy with that one. No surprise though, as this was directed by Robert Zemeckis, the father of modern 3D. (Beowulf and Polar Express pre-dated Avatar..)
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post #258 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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3D is not selling new TV panels , most already have 3D, the processing power is used for other features . If the industry wants to sell new TV panels it will have to be based on other technologies , bigger and better .
3D is not on TV because it's a dead format, the feature is just not going to entice a person to buy something they already possess. I have two flat panel TV's that both have 3D, I have never watched 3D on either nor did I buy
them based on 3D a feature. I purchased mostly on size first. 3D I only do in a dedicated theater on a large screen that makes the immersion work and that includes 2D , not just 3D.

We live in a world of evolving technology that changes faster than product fails, it's actually designed this way . People replace product for newer features not because the old is worn out and manufactures know precisely how to exploit our eagerness to replace .

No surprise to me that 3D is not a feature on new flat panels , in fact most see the feature as a waste of processing power and I would have to agree. It's not the end of times for 3D however and mark my word that the cycle will
return for 3D on panels when the manufacturers see it as an advantage once again.
So much of what you stated is erroneous but has been addressed so many times before that I won't re-hash. Except to say again that no one knows if LG will or will not add it to any 2018 models. Given the feedback from tens of thousands of people, they very well could. (Optoma's new 60/65 PJs don't have 3D currently but they have heard the demand and they reportedly will be adding 3D to those units via firmware updates sometime this fall.) Just because tv mfgrs are trying to arbitrarily force people into 4K doesn't mean that 3D is dead. In fact, the current spike in PJ sales is primarily due to people wanting to make sure they still have the 3D option.
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post #259 of 313 Old 08-09-2017, 05:18 PM
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Don't forget all of those who have bought 3D flat panels while they're still available. I wasn't planning on upgrading my TV for a few more years, but got a 75-inch LG with 3D because of the news that their newer TVs wouldn't have it. I would like to get a still bigger OLED screen eventually, but I won't buy any new display that can't do 3D. This could very well be the last new TV I ever buy, and if it dies and I'm forced to replace it with a 2D-only display I'll buy one used. As I said in another thread this really is the biggest screw-up in the history of consumer electronics- regardless of whether 3D is "dead" or not I should still be able to watch the over 300 3D Blu-Rays that I have, dropping a capability from a TV is NOT an upgrade! (One could say that the 'smart features' most TVs have are a bigger "waste of processing power" than 3D; the Vudu app on my TV is just about useless to me since it can't pass Dolby Digital Plus or Atmos!)
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post #260 of 313 Old 08-10-2017, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by film113 View Post
So much of what you stated is erroneous but has been addressed so many times before that I won't re-hash. Except to say again that no one knows if LG will or will not add it to any 2018 models. Given the feedback from tens of thousands of people, they very well could. (Optoma's new 60/65 PJs don't have 3D currently but they have heard the demand and they reportedly will be adding 3D to those units via firmware updates sometime this fall.) Just because tv mfgrs are trying to arbitrarily force people into 4K doesn't mean that 3D is dead. In fact, the current spike in PJ sales is primarily due to people wanting to make sure they still have the 3D option.
3D has so much momentum I do not see that it will ever cease to exist entirely , that freight train left the station long ago, no turning it back now . People have invested in the TV's, Projectors and have volumes of 3D CD's on their shelves, the backlash would be far to great . Besides that the theater chains and independent theater owners have invested copious amounts of money in equipment to show 3D, it would not go over well if that industry shut
down.
I have two local chains that I try to buy 3D titles from, Walmart and Best Buy. Both are always sold out of 3D before I can purchase . I gave up and order my copies from Amazon, I can never get what I want locally .

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post #261 of 313 Old 08-10-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
I have two local chains that I try to buy 3D titles from, Walmart and Best Buy. Both are always sold out of 3D before I can purchase . I gave up and order my copies from Amazon, I can never get what I want locally .
I don't think Wal-Mart carries 3D anymore. But am in the same boat with BB. Stopped in yesterday for KING ARTHUR and they were sold out. Guy checked on-line for me and it was sold out on-line as well. And at $38 to boot! For that price I can get TWO classic 3D titles from Twilight Time!
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post #262 of 313 Old 08-10-2017, 07:32 PM
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Lots of wishful thinking above.

3D for the home is "dead" because Hollywood has made it so. No amount of religious belief that people will rise up against the machine that is corporate America will change the outcome. No amount of pleading with movie studios or TV manufacturers will result in more product. Besides, what good does it do to only have the "top model" have 3D? If you want 3D to succeed, you MUST have it on every 1080p capable model above 40" or so. Otherwise, you will NEVER EVER achieve market saturation "potential" (i.e. you can't sell a 3D disc to someone that doesn't even have 3D capability, never mind if they don't like it even if their set CAN play it) which is why Hollywood and the industry has killed 3D for the home market. It simply isn't selling in quantity. PERIOD.

Like it or not, 3D is effectively DEAD. Yes, 3D titles will be probably still be made for very top "must have" titles like Star Wars in the US and will continue for now to be made for for Asia and Europe (where there is an actual market for it as well as new model TVs that support it there), but the fact they are NOT going to release Terminator 2 on 3D Blu-Ray (the entire reason for it being released in Theaters on Aug 25th is for the James Cameron personally supervised 3D conversion) in the US on October 3rd says EVERYTHING. Europe, South America and Asia? Yes. The US? Not a chance in hell. THAT is how badly they believe there is no market for 3D in the USA home. 100,000 crazed 3D enthusiasts does not a "market" make.

I've already read that 3D sets will be made for Europe, but not US models. Even if it's just a software switch, the industry has told them to turn it OFF because they want it DEAD here so it does not compete with 4K. And I mean DEAD. They want 4K to sell and nothing else. Then they will want 8k to sell and nothing else. It's the new world condition and it's called GREED. There is no money in 3D anymore so it will no longer be supported.

Quote from: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1484739987

"Most manufacturers buried 3D last year. LG gave 3D another year before announcing at CES 2017 earlier this month that it will be excluded from all 2017 OLEDs, despite OLED delivering the best 3D picture quality.
...
At CES, FlatpanelsHD asked LG about the decision to drop 3D and despite some chatter about it being related to display brightness LG said that the decision has very little to do with technical concerns. The decision was taken because 3D as a format is dying. There is no 4K 3D standard and other brands as well as studios have already abandoned the format.
"

Quote from CES Article: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1485148372

"At this year’s show, 3D was dead and buried, and it did not seem to trouble participants one bit. Perhaps because several manufacturers had had one year to lick the wounds (and write down investments). Samsung abandoned 3D last year. At that time, it felt like a dramatic event and when FlatpanelsHD broke the news many readers refused to believe that it applied to the high-end models, too. It did. Shortly after, Philips announced that it would no longer include 3D in any TVs.

LG and Sony will follow suit in 2017. 3D will not be available in any of the two brands’ TVs. Panasonic also unveiled a new flagship TV without 3D. Sony’s decision was met by a dismissive shrug where LG’s decision garnered a little more discussion, primarily because the combination of OLED and passive 3D technology arguably represented the best 3D experience.

...

3D will live on in the cinema and on home projectors but this will not change the fact that the entire eco system is close to collapse. A 4K 3D standard never emerged, content providers have abandoned 3D channels/streams, and the content industry in general is scaling down. The glasses-free 3D technology that we were promised is far from ready. At CES 2017 we once again witnessed the usual demonstrations of glasses-free 3D tech, and once again everything that we saw was insultingly bad.

The history repeats itself. 3D failed again.
"

The one thing they DON'T say in those articles is that 3D failed because they HELPED MAKE IT FAIL. Too much more money for the movies and glasses over the initial TV investment. Not all BD players even supported 3D (so shock, some people had to put out even more money to watch it). Most sets came with 1 pair of glasses at most (many zero). Two competing formats (active/passive) added confusion. And even the best sets could still get at least some crosstalk on bad 3D movies (on my Epson, it's night and day between some releases; Beauty and the Beast is almost cross-talk free, while Pacific Rim has it everywhere).

I think the real question I'd like answered is how much more does it cost the industry to add 3D support on a given model TV? Are we talking about firmware/programming support or do they have to have extra hardware internally (i.e. high extra costs) to make it work? It would be sad if it's simply a software option at this point for something like active and they're just killing it to be rid of it.

How many sales make would make it worthwhile to support? You see special release BDs all the time (limited/collectors editions with x amount of copies made only, but they can't be bothered for 500k 3D BDs world-wide when the films are already made in 3D for the theater? It's all rather odd. I think it's that they want to push 4K where 3D hurts 4K since there is no 3D 4K home standard to sell and clearly some of us are choosing 3D over 4K, particularly when the industry is taking so long to make reasonably priced 4K projectors (only ones that are "reasonable" are $2500 DLPs that can't do 3D, which is a deal killer for people that want 3D so that leaves a $7000 Sony as the cheapest available option for both unless you count that "sorta kinda (almost like interlaced) 4K' stuff Epson sells).
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post #263 of 313 Old 08-10-2017, 09:02 PM
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Lots of wishful thinking above.

3D for the home is "dead" because Hollywood has made it so. No amount of religious belief that people will rise up against the machine that is corporate America will change the outcome. No amount of pleading with movie studios or TV manufacturers will result in more product. Besides, what good does it do to only have the "top model" have 3D? If you want 3D to succeed, you MUST have it on every 1080p capable model above 40" or so. Otherwise, you will NEVER EVER achieve market saturation "potential" (i.e. you can't sell a 3D disc to someone that doesn't even have 3D capability, never mind if they don't like it even if their set CAN play it) which is why Hollywood and the industry has killed 3D for the home market. It simply isn't selling in quantity. PERIOD.

Like it or not, 3D is effectively DEAD. Yes, 3D titles will be probably still be made for very top "must have" titles like Star Wars in the US and will continue for now to be made for for Asia and Europe (where there is an actual market for it as well as new model TVs that support it there), but the fact they are NOT going to release Terminator 2 on 3D Blu-Ray (the entire reason for it being released in Theaters on Aug 25th is for the James Cameron personally supervised 3D conversion) in the US on October 3rd says EVERYTHING. Europe, South America and Asia? Yes. The US? Not a chance in hell. THAT is how badly they believe there is no market for 3D in the USA home. 100,000 crazed 3D enthusiasts does not a "market" make.

I've already read that 3D sets will be made for Europe, but not US models. Even if it's just a software switch, the industry has told them to turn it OFF because they want it DEAD here so it does not compete with 4K. And I mean DEAD. They want 4K to sell and nothing else. Then they will want 8k to sell and nothing else. It's the new world condition and it's called GREED. There is no money in 3D anymore so it will no longer be supported.

Quote from: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1484739987

"Most manufacturers buried 3D last year. LG gave 3D another year before announcing at CES 2017 earlier this month that it will be excluded from all 2017 OLEDs, despite OLED delivering the best 3D picture quality.
...
At CES, FlatpanelsHD asked LG about the decision to drop 3D and despite some chatter about it being related to display brightness LG said that the decision has very little to do with technical concerns. The decision was taken because 3D as a format is dying. There is no 4K 3D standard and other brands as well as studios have already abandoned the format.
"

Quote from CES Article: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1485148372

"At this year’s show, 3D was dead and buried, and it did not seem to trouble participants one bit. Perhaps because several manufacturers had had one year to lick the wounds (and write down investments). Samsung abandoned 3D last year. At that time, it felt like a dramatic event and when FlatpanelsHD broke the news many readers refused to believe that it applied to the high-end models, too. It did. Shortly after, Philips announced that it would no longer include 3D in any TVs.

LG and Sony will follow suit in 2017. 3D will not be available in any of the two brands’ TVs. Panasonic also unveiled a new flagship TV without 3D. Sony’s decision was met by a dismissive shrug where LG’s decision garnered a little more discussion, primarily because the combination of OLED and passive 3D technology arguably represented the best 3D experience.

...

3D will live on in the cinema and on home projectors but this will not change the fact that the entire eco system is close to collapse. A 4K 3D standard never emerged, content providers have abandoned 3D channels/streams, and the content industry in general is scaling down. The glasses-free 3D technology that we were promised is far from ready. At CES 2017 we once again witnessed the usual demonstrations of glasses-free 3D tech, and once again everything that we saw was insultingly bad.

The history repeats itself. 3D failed again.
"

The one thing they DON'T say in those articles is that 3D failed because they HELPED MAKE IT FAIL. Too much more money for the movies and glasses over the initial TV investment. Not all BD players even supported 3D (so shock, some people had to put out even more money to watch it). Most sets came with 1 pair of glasses at most (many zero). Two competing formats (active/passive) added confusion. And even the best sets could still get at least some crosstalk on bad 3D movies (on my Epson, it's night and day between some releases; Beauty and the Beast is almost cross-talk free, while Pacific Rim has it everywhere).

I think the real question I'd like answered is how much more does it cost the industry to add 3D support on a given model TV? Are we talking about firmware/programming support or do they have to have extra hardware internally (i.e. high extra costs) to make it work? It would be sad if it's simply a software option at this point for something like active and they're just killing it to be rid of it.

How many sales make would make it worthwhile to support? You see special release BDs all the time (limited/collectors editions with x amount of copies made only, but they can't be bothered for 500k 3D BDs world-wide when the films are already made in 3D for the theater? It's all rather odd. I think it's that they want to push 4K where 3D hurts 4K since there is no 3D 4K home standard to sell and clearly some of us are choosing 3D over 4K, particularly when the industry is taking so long to make reasonably priced 4K projectors (only ones that are "reasonable" are $2500 DLPs that can't do 3D, which is a deal killer for people that want 3D so that leaves a $7000 Sony as the cheapest available option for both unless you count that "sorta kinda (almost like interlaced) 4K' stuff Epson sells).

Like I said, and you are effectively saying too, it's a cycle. Push 4K, push WCG and HDR, next 8K and so on . When the timing is ripe it will recycle back and each time it gets better. Once Avatar2 rolls out my guess it will ramp up a year after that, they are probably planning that process . If improvements can be made with the glasses and the 3D technology , it will stay around longer. It's definitely on the backburner now but it's far from cold, heats going to be turned up soon and there is plenty in queue for the next few years.
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post #264 of 313 Old 08-11-2017, 03:40 PM
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The same guys have been saying that physical media has been dying for the past 10 years.

Same with 3D. It always comes in cycles. Watch it pick up again when the next Avatar comes out.


Then there is VR....

Not concerned about the state of 3D hardware. I'm concerned about the state of 3D software.
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post #265 of 313 Old 08-11-2017, 04:58 PM
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It's true that the physical media market has been dying but it's not really dead, it has shrunk considerably though from 10 years ago. I think physical media is going to be around for awhile longer at least 10-20 years. Streaming is an instant media source and will continue to outpace physical media, people want it now and don't want to wait.

I like James Cameron's response recently on VR, which he says VR isn't really VR, it's just omni directional perspective, you can look around but that's it. Real VR you can move around and we're literally decades away from that. It's unlikely the current state of VR will become anything more than it is, which is just a novelty. It's going to need major advancements before it becomes something of an art form for cinema.

His video was pretty interesting talking about studio's going with conversion which as I've been saying for awhile now has been one of the major issues with 3D. You don't get the best 3D when it's converted after the fact. 3D is something that needs to be done up front.

About the T2 3D release and a few other 3D tidbits:
https://www.facebook.com/terminator2...9129956462090/

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post #266 of 313 Old 08-12-2017, 01:06 AM
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Not concerned about the state of 3D hardware. I'm concerned about the state of 3D software.
But what happens if your TV breaks and you can't buy another one?
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post #267 of 313 Old 08-12-2017, 01:49 AM
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But what happens if your TV breaks and you can't buy another one?
You cry.

(or try and find a used replacement or find a way to use a projector; I mean what other choices do you have? Buy a few backups for when the TV fails?)
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post #268 of 313 Old 08-12-2017, 12:23 PM
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But what happens if your TV breaks and you can't buy another one?
Buy a projector.
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post #269 of 313 Old 08-13-2017, 11:01 AM
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But what happens if your TV breaks and you can't buy another one?
I got stressed when it was announced that plasma TVs would no longer be manufactured. However, I waited and later bought an OLED which is much better. So, I would say something better will come along.
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post #270 of 313 Old 08-13-2017, 10:26 PM
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There was no media that would ONLY play properly on plasma TVs. 3D discs will not display the way they were intended on a TV that isn't equipped with 3D. At best you can see only the left eye's image on one.
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