Gemini Man 4K3D 120 HFR and no Blu ray 3D release - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 04-23-2019, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Gemini Man 4K3D 120HFR and no Blu ray 3D release




Directed by Ang Lee, this is the 3rd 3D film by Ang Lee and the 2nd to use native 3D with HFR format.

Releasing Oct. 11th 2019

Unfortunately, since this is Paramount, we will not receive a Blu ray 3D as they have decided to no longer release on the format. If you want to see in 3D, you'll have to see it in theaters. Ang Lee needs to change up studios.

https://www.ibc.org/production/ang-lees-high-frame-rate-gemini-man-the-future-of-cinema/3505.article"]4K3D 120HFR

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post #2 of 25 Old 07-28-2019, 03:05 PM
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“When you watch it for the first time it is both alien and captivating, Ang is not pursuing high frame rates for 2D. It’s about the 3D experience and eliminating motion blur through extreme frame rates. When you achieve this, it is truly like looking through a massive window, one in which you can look left and right and into the distance in such a way that the depth and detail in the picture becomes a whole new element in your storytelling.” - Oscar winning cinematographer Dion Beebe

https://www.ibc.org/production/ang-l...a/3505.article

Directed By: Ang Lee
Story By: Darren Lemke, David Benioff
Music By: Lorne Balfe
Production Companies: Skydance Media, Jerry Bruckheimer Films, Fosun Pictures, Alibaba Pictures
Distributed By: Paramount Pictures

https://www.paramount.com/movies/gemini-man
https://twitter.com/geminimanmovie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_Man_%28film%29
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1025100


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post #3 of 25 Old 08-02-2019, 12:44 PM
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Being released in RealD 3D, will make it an average 3D movie I think. Projectors will need the higher frame rates--right? Or am I missing something. RealD 3D does 24 fps and flashes each eye 3 times a second to reduce flicker. Gemini Man is 120 HFR, and I don't think Real3D projection equipment can handle that, but maybe in a few theaters. Since 120/24 is 5, they would have to flash each eye 5 times a second--I don't know, I'm just trying to understand how this might work.
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post #4 of 25 Old 08-02-2019, 02:27 PM
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All three Hobbit movies were released in 48fps High frame rate/Real D 3-D years ago. I believe most Real D venues are capable of 60fps/3-D with no issue. A 120 fps 4K 3-D version would be limited to just a few places like "Billy Lynn" was.

I thought I read that the current installed digital projectors can do 2-D HFR at up to 120 fps, but who would want to watch a movie shot in 3-D flat?
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post #5 of 25 Old 08-02-2019, 02:31 PM
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The Cinity Cinema System is supposed to support the full 120 frames per second per eye. Deployment of Cinity starts in August, just months prior to the October movie release. Initial installs are in mainland China, Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...making-1199068

Sounds like there is an upgrade path for existing projectors to 60 frames per second per eye.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...king-as-790939
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post #6 of 25 Old 08-02-2019, 02:48 PM
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Gee, I can't wait to see this overseas...wait, what? Based on the downward spiral of 3D, especially in the US, why would any theater want to spend the money to upgrade. That just wouldn't make economical sense. And Cameron is killing 3D with his late, oh so late, releases of Avatar--we are close to "who cares" when it comes to the new CGI/3D tech he's trying to innovate into them, when Marvel has already done that.
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post #7 of 25 Old 08-02-2019, 04:40 PM
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These US theaters were 120 FPS 3D capable for Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk.

AMC Lincoln Square in New York City
Arclite Dome in Hollywood
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post #8 of 25 Old 08-03-2019, 08:18 PM
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3D 2K 60FPS Projector Costs

Replacement: 10-15% of North American and Western Europe Theaters
  • New Projector: $35,000
  • Integrated Media Block: $10,000-15,000

Upgrade:
  • Firmware: $800-1,500
  • HFR License: $500 (unless already purchased for The Hobbit HFR movies)

https://www.screendaily.com/features...140383.article
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post #9 of 25 Old 10-03-2019, 05:04 PM
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I scored passes to an early screening of Gemini Man this Sunday at the TCL Chinese Theatre. Hopefully it's in 3d with the high frame rate but the passes don't mention anything about HFR or even 3d.

Checking the Chinese Theatre website for upcoming showtimes and I don't see any 3d showings at all. Strange because they usually at least have 3d screenings on the weekend or even first showings on weekdays but nope! Seeing nothing but 2d listings, weird.

BUT.... just now I see the premiere is at the Chinese Theatre and they ARE showing in 3d/HFR120!
Quote:
The screening will use Cinity, the new HFR cinema projection system developed by Christie for Huaxia Film Distribution, which offers the latest advances in HFR screening and Christie® RealLaser™ illumination technology.
https://www.boxofficepro.com/gemini-...inese-theatre/

So far, critics being pretty harsh on it but I'm still excited to check it out!
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-04-2019, 06:39 AM
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There are a lot of 3D+ HFR showings on the schedule for Las Vegas, more than usual for recent 3-D offerings. It's going out pretty widely in 3-D HFR.
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post #11 of 25 Old 10-06-2019, 07:19 AM
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If you want my business, release the movie in 3D on BluRay. Otherwise, I'll pass.

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post #12 of 25 Old 10-06-2019, 10:41 PM
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I managed to watch this in 3D+ HFR the other day, in general the 3D is your standard depth based presentation with a few key moments used to get some use of pop out effects where it made sense which were done well (getting shot at by tracer rounds for example). It's been filmed in 3D so fortunately they've managed to avoid the pitfalls of native 3D shooting (mostly reflections & super fine detail) that I've seen in other natively shot movies. There's a lot of dark scenes unfortunately so if the theatre isn't up to scratch you'll be struggling to see what's going on in some cases. HFR adds an interesting take on the film so it feels more realistic when you're watching it in some of the action sequences as if you were there watching it live (which I believe was part of what Ang Lee was aiming for).

Unfortunately he's gone a bit more style over substance getting Junior conceptualised so there's a lot of close up head shots (of most key characters) that you can definitely feel something is different with HFR being used that feels close to an uncanny valley response. Junior's rendition is graphically near perfect however; probably the weakness is Will Smith trying to portray two different characters so occasionally it feels like the older version is coming through on the younger version a bit too strongly.

Story wise it's pretty simplistic which is a major weakness of the film so it feels like Ang Lee was experimenting with pushing the limits of technology over making crowd pleasing entertainment so I don't see it appealing to a lot of people to be honest (though I didn't mind it, you can definitely poke some major theory holes in the film however). Overall you technically could give it a pass and not watch it in 3D, comparing HFR vs non-HFR seems more where the discussion would be once it comes out on Blu-Ray or 4K.
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-07-2019, 07:58 AM
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PCummins- Thanks for your report. The film looks interesting but IMO, 3D vs 2D is far more important than 24fps std of 3D BluRay vs HFR. Hopefully, it comes out in 3D but if not, I'll probably just rent it at RedBox for $2 or even wait for it to be released on Netflix or Amazon Prime.

Like the rest of us here, I remain a big fan of 3D, and like 3D content on Oculus Quest even more than flat screen 3D, but I still enjoy a good story in 2D as well. I just won't pay the premium price to watch it.

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post #14 of 25 Old 10-07-2019, 11:25 AM
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I haven't seen this as it isn't out here yet, but I did see one of the Star Wars movies at home with motion interpolation on in 3D and it reminded me of staged play, and therefore made the actors look like they were acting instead of watching actual movie characters. Will be interesting to see what that does to Gemini Man.
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post #15 of 25 Old 10-08-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post
PCummins- Thanks for your report. The film looks interesting but IMO, 3D vs 2D is far more important than 24fps std of 3D BluRay vs HFR. Hopefully, it comes out in 3D but if not, I'll probably just rent it at RedBox for $2 or even wait for it to be released on Netflix or Amazon Prime. Like the rest of us here, I remain a big fan of 3D, and like 3D content on Oculus Quest even more than flat screen 3D, but I still enjoy a good story in 2D as well. I just won't pay the premium price to watch it.
Yes I don't know if it's worth rushing out to see it if you're forced to pay a premium given the 3D is fairly natural looking with only a few standout effects used. However, since it's Paramount it's hard to know if they'd ever release it digitally (and they claim they're not doing 3D Blu-Ray anymore) so watching in the theatres is the only reliable way to see it in 3D at this point in time.
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-10-2019, 07:42 AM
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In Theaters Now

Tomatometer: 26% fresh. 86% audience.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/gemini_man_2019

CinemaBlend 3D Score: 26/35

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/248...ini-man-ticket

Next up is Maleficent: Mistress of Evil 3D


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post #17 of 25 Old 10-10-2019, 07:46 AM
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Will Smith playing two parts in one movie - blech!
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-10-2019, 08:25 AM
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Will Smith playing two parts in one movie - blech!

Does playing yourself and a younger version of yourself really mean two characters?!?!?!

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post #19 of 25 Old 10-13-2019, 11:56 PM
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Saw this movie last week in the theater.



I saw it in Laser IMAX. 3D+ at 60fps. Man was I disappointing. The movie was just bad (story had no depth, dialogue was super weak) but I sort of expected that.


Really didn't enjoy the '3D+' experience. Just felt extra fake to me.. and not more 'real' like it was advertised as. I'll be honest that I'm not a huge fan of 3D.. in some cases I think it works well. But for this movie it was just distracting and didn't help me enjoy the film. High frame rate just made the movie feel like a straight to TV low budget movie.. which it is the opposite of. Obviously just my opinion.. but in some ways it make things feel more flat and certainly more fake. Also didn't help that I could see in some places where the motorcycle driver was not Will Smith.. but his stunt driver.


While some might like this new hyper real look... it just comes off as a low budget student film to me. But best to see it for yourself and decide if the High Frame rate is your thing.


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post #20 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 06:59 AM
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Disagree with the final comment in the YT clip.

This can be watched at home in HFR 3D+ using the HMD, but the equipment is expensive compared to a plain old 3D TV and bluray player. We already have 4K 3D at 90fps in HMD's

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post #21 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Being released in RealD 3D, will make it an average 3D movie I think. Projectors will need the higher frame rates--right? Or am I missing something. RealD 3D does 24 fps and flashes each eye 3 times a second to reduce flicker. Gemini Man is 120 HFR, and I don't think Real3D projection equipment can handle that, but maybe in a few theaters. Since 120/24 is 5, they would have to flash each eye 5 times a second--I don't know, I'm just trying to understand how this might work.

Not sure about the RealD 3D theaters, but I do know the following:
- all 2D is 24 fps,
- IMAX 3D is 60 fps
- Dolby 3D is 120 fps
[Source: Dolby]

These articles suggest there are no theaters showing Gemini Man in 3D and 120fps and 4k simltaneously but that's only true in the U.S. – in Europe, Dolby Cinema theaters do offer this ultimate combinaton.
- https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/08/gemini-man-120-fps-4k-3d-screenings-us/
- https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/8/20896194/gemini-man-hfr-3d-120-fps-showtimes-movie-theaters

As for the flashing: If for 24fps they need to repear each frame twice (expose it three times) to reduce flicker, they've effectvely reached 72 fps, where every frame is shown 3 times. With 60 fps, such effects are supposed to be unnoticeable already, so with 120fps each frame needs to be projected only once and not repeated.
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-14-2019, 10:41 AM
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Theaters in Detroit metro area say shown in 3D+ HFR and 2D IMAX. Haven't seen it yet, but will try to as it will probably not be shown in 3D after this week. Most 3D movies are usually shown 2 weeks in 3D, then only in 2D.

I saw Will Smith on Stephen Colbert last week, and he said Ang Lee specifically shot in 3D HFR as way to improve 3D, and that people should definitely see Gemini Man in 3D. I read it was shot in 4K digital 3D at 120fps. You can find this discussion on YouTube.

That said, the newspapers have really panned it as a wasted effort without much character or story depth. Plus people are saying the scenes look like a stage play and unrealistic from a movie perspective. When I read these type of reviews, I see another nail going into the 3D coffin.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-15-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Theaters in Detroit metro area say shown in 3D+ HFR and 2D IMAX. Haven't seen it yet, but will try to as it will probably not be shown in 3D after this week. Most 3D movies are usually shown 2 weeks in 3D, then only in 2D.

I saw Will Smith on Stephen Colbert last week, and he said Ang Lee specifically shot in 3D HFR as way to improve 3D, and that people should definitely see Gemini Man in 3D. I read it was shot in 4K digital 3D at 120fps. You can find this discussion on YouTube.

That said, the newspapers have really panned it as a wasted effort without much character or story depth. Plus people are saying the scenes look like a stage play and unrealistic from a movie perspective. When I read these type of reviews, I see another nail going into the 3D coffin.
I saw it in 3D HFR at a Cinemark theater in Fort Collins, CO yesterday. Cinemark is advertising its 3D HFR showings as 60fps rather than 120 (according to Cinemark's web site) and what I saw was probably 2k, rather than 4k (I think Cinemark has only one 4K screen in Fort Collins, and it is not in the theater I attended) but the picture did seem sharper, with more noticeable detail. As for the movie itself, the cinematography was great, and the action scenes were very effective. It is no art film character study, that's for sure, but as an action film, it works nicely.

I am going to see it again, at a normal frame rate, to see if I can see a difference.
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-17-2019, 04:22 PM
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I saw it today in 60FPS 3D and even though the story was pretty blah, I loved the HFR. It looked really odd but I believe that is because our brains are used to seeing movies at 24fps. So when we see something that is different, our brains almost don't know how to handle it.

The best way to describe it is that it was like I was on set but with all of the CGI being done. And the action was amazing; no motion blur.

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post #25 of 25 Old 10-18-2019, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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What I remember from the Hobbit was that the fast action scenes are improved and fast camera movements, but the slower scenes looked odd, like watching a soap opera. But after awhile I got used to it and the fast action scenes are less eye-jarring like they are with 24fps. Watching The Hobbit now, especially the end battle the quick camera pans and judder, doesn't handle it as well at 24p. I wonder how long it will be before we can see any of these features at their intended frame rate at home?

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