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post #1651 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 10:53 AM
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Night and day better, and that was using multi-layer white-silver spandex purchased from the recommended supplier and stretched the recommended amount. I had no issue with sound quality, wrinkles, etc... it's just the low-gain sapped the life out of the image, even with a relatively bright projector and dark room.

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post #1652 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post
Night and day better, and that was using multi-layer white-silver spandex purchased from the recommended supplier and stretched the recommended amount. I had no issue with sound quality, wrinkles, etc... it's just the low-gain sapped the life out of the image, even with a relatively bright projector and dark room.
Got it. So would a ST acoustic screen with a projector like ht3550 be good? I was told that if I get spandex I need a brighter projector like optoma uhd51alv.

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post #1653 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 11:05 AM
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I'd say it should be a solid combination. Even when I had an extremely bright Epson 3000, the spandex screen still sucked the life out of the image.

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post #1654 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:01 PM
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Got it. So would a ST acoustic screen with a projector like ht3550 be good? I was told that if I get spandex I need a brighter projector like optoma uhd51alv.

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I’m using an Optoma UHD51ALV on a spandex screen. And it still sucks the life out of the picture. It looks good sometimes but next to some real screen samples the difference is night and day. I am using the spandex in an unconventional way as a drop down screen hung from the ceiling with command hooks and some paracord putting tension on the screen from the bottom with no backing but still I know it can be better. The spandex was just a temporary solution me though so I haven’t much effort into making it look better. I say if budget is the issue then spandex can be a great temporary screen until you can get a quality screen but I wouldn’t use it for a permanent solution. If you’re spending thousands of dollars on a HT room and projector why compromise on the screen especially when ST screen are so affordable.


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post #1655 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:03 PM
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I’m using an Optoma UHD51ALV on a spandex screen. And it still sucks the life out of the picture. It looks good sometimes but next to some real screen samples the difference is night and day. I am using the spandex in an unconventional way as a drop down screen hung from the ceiling with command hooks and some paracord putting tension on the screen from the bottom with no backing but still I know it can be better. The spandex was just a temporary solution me though so I haven’t much effort into making it look better. I say if budget is the issue then spandex can be a great temporary screen until you can get a quality screen but I wouldn’t use it for a permanent solution. If you’re spending thousands of dollars on a HT room and projector why compromise on the screen especially when ST screen are so affordable.


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Yes that's my exact question. ST is affordable but I am hearing feedback on this forum that the weave pattern is shown and it will not match the quality of spandex. But your experience seems to be that you are not fully satisfied with the spandex.

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post #1656 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:38 PM
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Got it. So would a ST acoustic screen with a projector like ht3550 be good? I was told that if I get spandex I need a brighter projector like optoma uhd51alv.

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I'm using a HT2050 on a ST 135" 16:9 AT screen (though the screen is currently just mounted on a standard wall as I haven't built the false wall yet). I have zero issues with brightness and know it would be even better in a painted and prepped room. I also see no weave from around 12' back.

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post #1657 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Yes that's my exact question. ST is affordable but I am hearing feedback on this forum that the weave pattern is shown and it will not match the quality of spandex. But your experience seems to be that you are not fully satisfied with the spandex.

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No, I’m not satisfied with spandex but that could be due to my setup being temporary. The difference between the DIY spandex screen and a ST screen is if you don’t like the ST screen you can pack it up and send it back to Amazon or sell it in the classifieds. You may be able to resell the spandex but you probably can’t return it.
I can’t speak for the weave of the ST screens bc I haven’t seen one but it seems like you’d have to have really good eyes or be sitting really close to see the weave. I have tested a dozen different screen materials using my Optoma and every one them looked better than the spandex IMHO.
Have you priced out what it would cost to build a DIY screen vs the ST? Is the price difference plus time and effort to make the screen worth the savings to you?


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post #1658 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:55 PM
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I'm using a HT2050 on a ST 135" 16:9 AT screen (though the screen is currently just mounted on a standard wall as I haven't built the false wall yet). I have zero issues with brightness and know it would be even better in a painted and prepped room. I also see no weave from around 12' back.

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Thanks. Assuming I go with an ST screen my choices for projector are as follows.

1. optoma Uhd51alv
2. benq ht550
3. Epson 3700

My room characteristics are 11.2 feet between lens to AT screen and about 13 feet width with a 7.5 feet ceiling. I would ideally like a 135 inch diagonal 16:9 but I guess that may not be possible unless I get the Optoma. Given that vertical adjustment is extremely important given my room height adjustment what should I go with? The Epson would probably project only a max 120 inch image for this room size but has a lot of adjustments. The benq will project 135 inch from this distance but does not have many vertical adjustments.

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post #1659 of 1696 Old 05-29-2019, 12:56 PM
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No, I’m not satisfied with spandex but that could be due to my setup being temporary. The difference between the DIY spandex screen and a ST screen is if you don’t like the ST screen you can pack it up and send it back to Amazon or sell it in the classifieds. You may be able to resell the spandex but you probably can’t return it.
I can’t speak for the weave of the ST screens bc I haven’t seen one but it seems like you’d have to have really good eyes or be sitting really close to see the weave. I have tested a dozen different screen materials using my Optoma and every one them looked better than the spandex IMHO.
Have you priced out what it would cost to build a DIY screen vs the ST? Is the price difference plus time and effort to make the screen worth the savings to you?


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I would prefer a ready made screen.

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post #1660 of 1696 Old 05-30-2019, 02:58 PM
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No, I’m not satisfied with spandex but that could be due to my setup being temporary. The difference between the DIY spandex screen and a ST screen is if you don’t like the ST screen you can pack it up and send it back to Amazon or sell it in the classifieds. You may be able to resell the spandex but you probably can’t return it.
I can’t speak for the weave of the ST screens bc I haven’t seen one but it seems like you’d have to have really good eyes or be sitting really close to see the weave. I have tested a dozen different screen materials using my Optoma and every one them looked better than the spandex IMHO.
Have you priced out what it would cost to build a DIY screen vs the ST? Is the price difference plus time and effort to make the screen worth the savings to you?


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I have a 135" AT from ST. I can't see any weave even close up (say 5ft)
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post #1661 of 1696 Old 05-31-2019, 01:18 AM
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I’m using an Optoma UHD51ALV on a spandex screen. And it still sucks the life out of the picture. It looks good sometimes but next to some real screen samples the difference is night and day. I am using the spandex in an unconventional way as a drop down screen hung from the ceiling with command hooks and some paracord putting tension on the screen from the bottom with no backing but still I know it can be better.

No backing.....? With a pourus cloth such a Spandex? And you can't understand why you have so much light lost(sucked away) though absorption.....? Obviously, because of the way you decided to install / use the Spandex you didn't bother to follow the instructions published over several years that a Black backing is required, so your evaluation is seriously flawed.

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Yes that's my exact question. ST is affordable but I am hearing feedback on this forum that the weave pattern is shown and it will not match the quality of spandex. But your experience seems to be that you are not fully satisfied with the spandex.
Such a personal take based on incorrect usage should not influence your decision. Better to opt for accepting the many dozens of positive reviews.The issue of needing sufficient Lumen output has never been hidden from anyone, so choose the PJ you use accordingly.

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I have a 135" AT from ST. I can't see any weave even close up (say 5ft)
That is wholly contradictory to a LOT of Member observations....from 10'...so either they all have extremely sharp vision or your's is very poor. Probably not the latter so something is skewered.

The ST-AT Screens are accepted as a value driven choice in a Mfg AT Screen, but their known caveats have been well documented. As such their use remains a personal choice.

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post #1662 of 1696 Old 05-31-2019, 04:30 AM
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No backing.....? With a pourus cloth such a Spandex? And you can't understand why you have so much light lost(sucked away) though absorption.....? Obviously, because of the way you decided to install / use the Spandex you didn't bother to follow the instructions published over several years that a Black backing is required, so your evaluation is seriously flawed.

Fake news! You quoted me and no where in my quote did I say I don’t understand why my screen sucks. You missed the part about spandex being a temporary screen for me. So No, I did not bother to read the gospel of DIY spandex screens. Someone mentioned using the projector I have with a screen material I’m using so I responded letting him know my experience. I even went on to explain how I was using it, knowing that’s not the proper way. However the spandex has served its purpose for me by allowing me the flexibility to put up the screen and take it down when not in use since I have been using it like a retractable screen in front of my TV. Hopefully after next week when my SI Solo screen comes in I won’t have to fool with the spandex anymore.



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post #1663 of 1696 Old 05-31-2019, 07:04 AM
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Fake news! You quoted me and no where in my quote did I say I don’t understand why my screen sucks. You missed the part about spandex being a temporary screen for me. So No, I did not bother to read the gospel of DIY spandex screens. Someone mentioned using the projector I have with a screen material I’m using so I responded letting him know my experience. I even went on to explain how I was using it, knowing that’s not the proper way. However the spandex has served its purpose for me by allowing me the flexibility to put up the screen and take it down when not in use since I have been using it like a retractable screen in front of my TV. Hopefully after next week when my SI Solo screen comes in I won’t have to fool with the spandex anymore.
No Fake News here!

You clearly stated your performance was substandard....supposedly qualifying as to why. You went on to say that " spandex can be a great temporary screen until you can get a quality screen but I wouldn’t use it for a permanent solution". Hard to read that anyway but saying Spandex is only a "make do". But that first posting wasn't enough.......


Your last post (6th back.. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58114106 ...I won't quote it...) went further down the road of disallowing the Spandex any respect....it would seem that your trying really hard to justify your expenditure in a SI product....which is entirely understandable considering what you were living with and what you've now laid out.


Decidedly slanted "IMHOs" do a very good alternative solution no justice at all...and it's all the worse when those opinions are based upon incorrect or improper use....even when such is acknowledged.

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No Fake News here!

You clearly stated your performance was substandard....supposedly qualifying as to why. You went on to say that " spandex can be a great temporary screen until you can get a quality screen but I wouldn’t use it for a permanent solution". Hard to read that anyway but saying Spandex is only a "make do". But that first posting wasn't enough.......


Your last post (6th back.. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58114106 ...I won't quote it...) went further down the road of disallowing the Spandex any respect....it would seem that your trying really hard to justify your expenditure in a SI product....which is entirely understandable considering what you were living with and what you've now laid out.


Decidedly slanted "IMHOs" do a very good alternative solution no justice at all...and it's all the worse when those opinions are based upon incorrect or improper use....even when such is acknowledged.


I understand where you are coming from. You don’t want me discouraging someone from using spandex as a viable AT screen option based off my experience using it the way I have. Using a spandex as a PJ screen works and rattle can spray paint can paint a car also but if not done both will look like *****.


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No backing.....? With a pourus cloth such a Spandex? And you can't understand why you have so much light lost(sucked away) though absorption.....? Obviously, because of the way you decided to install / use the Spandex you didn't bother to follow the instructions published over several years that a Black backing is required, so your evaluation is seriously flawed.



Such a personal take based on incorrect usage should not influence your decision. Better to opt for accepting the many dozens of positive reviews.The issue of needing sufficient Lumen output has never been hidden from anyone, so choose the PJ you use accordingly.



That is wholly contradictory to a LOT of Member observations....from 10'...so either they all have extremely sharp vision or your's is very poor. Probably not the latter so something is skewered.

The ST-AT Screens are accepted as a value driven choice in a Mfg AT Screen, but their known caveats have been well documented. As such their use remains a personal choice.
The first screen that they sent me, sure. (it was sent back as it had ripples all in it) The second screen however was a new cotton blend with almost no texture that you can see up close. I was told they were testing it, I have never seen it on their website.
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post #1666 of 1696 Old 05-31-2019, 03:25 PM
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The first screen that they sent me, sure. (it was sent back as it had ripples all in it) The second screen however was a new cotton blend with almost no texture that you can see up close. I was told they were testing it, I have never seen it on their website.
Now that sounds pretty interesting. ST has always striven to get to the next level based on feedback....something I noted all the way back in 2010.

When they switched to a smoother vinyl material, their perceived Image quality took a big step forward....and Hey....they did that before the advent of 4K just to make the 1080p's look smoother. I chuckle to think how Elite held fast to their textured surface on the VMax series....just to maintain a degree of gain slightly higher than 1.0 and still suppress loss of viewing cone issues.

I haven't really been too concerned with gain....I mean, the V6 material is clearly adjudged to be among the finest AT experience around, and it is just 0.85 gain vs 0.7 gain for Spandex. Both specifically require....nay, demand adequate Lumen be delivered, especially if the Screen size goes up beyond 110" diagonal in any format. Once one gets up to there it's clear that there are only a select few 4K PJs that can muster up enough to come up to par when HDR is being employed. (2600+> "HTG" Lumen) Before HDR, it was 3D that was the hard application to satisfy.

It's not hard for anyone to see how HDR's need for higher gain Screens has driven many to deal with a lot of image quality issues. Graininess....loss of Viewing Cone width....even overt color pushes.

There has never been a time when the need for Lumen output relative to screen size wasn't made clear to any wannabee Spandex adopter "beforehand"....if they simply asked first. The other major attributes...virtually a lack of discernible weave along with low buy-in price simply nailed the lid shut for many by virtue of most all other choices having either some nasty Screen artifacts or significantly higher cost...or both.

One can be certain that even if any new generation ST-AT screens prove to be real performers at a lower price point, there will still be naysayers. And brook no mistake, let the newer ST-AT screens get to a point where they are only 2x as expensive as a comparable DIY Spandex Screen and I will be advocating their use for a much larger cross section of Members. I embraced ST screens as a affordable Mfg alternative to DIY'ing years ago.....despite my being a dedicated DIY advocate.



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post #1667 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 11:08 AM
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I'm thinking about getting this screen and I plan to put my speakers behind the screen and just wondering how much the White Material affects the acoustics or if it's noticeable at all. I know they have the Woven Acoustic Material but it's a lot more expensive.
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post #1668 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 11:38 AM
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I'm thinking about getting this screen and I plan to put my speakers behind the screen and just wondering how much the White Material affects the acoustics or if it's noticeable at all. I know they have the Woven Acoustic Material but it's a lot more expensive.

I don't think you will be happy with speakers behind a non acoustically transparent screen. I recommend you either pony up for the AT screen, or go the DIY spandex route.
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post #1669 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 02:49 PM
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I'm thinking about getting this screen and I plan to put my speakers behind the screen and just wondering how much the White Material affects the acoustics or if it's noticeable at all. I know they have the Woven Acoustic Material but it's a lot more expensive.
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I don't think you will be happy with speakers behind a non acoustically transparent screen. I recommend you either pony up for the AT screen, or go the DIY spandex route.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ fur shur!



Trying to play Audio through a flexible but opaque/solid vinyl sheeting would be akin to throwing the material over the speaker like a Blanket.


What Projector are you using?


Throw distance?




Listen....the $150 uptick to Acoustic Material on a Silver Ticket avoids Frame Building....and stretching out / stapling down two layers of White & Black Spandex. Ante up!

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I don't think you will be happy with speakers behind a non acoustically transparent screen. I recommend you either pony up for the AT screen, or go the DIY spandex route.
I guess I'm gonna have to get it. I might just use the wall until there is a sale or something.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ fur shur!


Trying to play Audio through a flexible but opaque/solid vinyl sheeting would be akin to throwing the material over the speaker like a Blanket.


What Projector are you using?


Throw distance?


Listen....the $150 uptick to Acoustic Material on a Silver Ticket avoids Frame Building....and stretching out / stapling down two layers of White & Black Spandex. Ante up!
I'll be getting the Epson 5040UB. Not exactly sure on throw distance yet but will be anywhere from 10' to 15' or so. This is my first projector so I'm learning as I go along.
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post #1671 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 05:11 PM
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Make sure you use the projector calculator to make sure a 10' throw distance will work if you haven't already - that's pretty close to the screen.



If you are not against some DIY work you really ought to check out the spandex option if you are on a really tight budget. You might also check and see what sizes Silver Ticket has in their AT in open box section.

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post #1672 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 06:41 PM
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Make sure you use the projector calculator to make sure a 10' throw distance will work if you haven't already - that's pretty close to the screen.



If you are not against some DIY work you really ought to check out the spandex option if you are on a really tight budget. You might also check and see what sizes Silver Ticket has in their AT in open box section.
The room is 20' long so I have room to work with.

I've never done any DIY work so I'm not sure if I'm capable.
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post #1673 of 1696 Old 06-12-2019, 06:57 PM
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I'll be getting the Epson 5040UB. Not exactly sure on throw distance yet but will be anywhere from 10' to 15' or so. This is my first projector so I'm learning as I go along.
You can download the manual on the Epson website. The throw distances are on pages 27-29.
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post #1674 of 1696 Old 06-13-2019, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightwing-DG View Post
The room is 20' long so I have room to work with.

I've never done any DIY work so I'm not sure if I'm capable.



@Nightwing-DG ,


With the 5040ub, a 110" diagonal screen (...like you linked to....) can be best hit with your Projector set at 11'-3" *minimum* The closest throw possible would be 10'- 10" and you never want to place a projector so that it has no zoom adjustment left.


At the prescribed Throw you could still achieve a Foot Lambert value of 47 fl on a AT material like Spandex. That would make for a very spectacular image!



As far as worrying about having applicable DIY skills....don't worry. Over on DIY Screens we teach the rankest Noobs how to make 'em up. So no matter how "rank" you are we'd have your back.

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post #1675 of 1696 Old 06-13-2019, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
@Nightwing-DG ,


With the 5040ub, a 110" diagonal screen (...like you linked to....) can be best hit with your Projector set at 11'-3" *minimum* The closest throw possible would be 10'- 10" and you never want to place a projector so that it has no zoom adjustment left.


At the prescribed Throw you could still achieve a Foot Lambert value of 47 fl on a AT material like Spandex. That would make for a very spectacular image!



As far as worrying about having applicable DIY skills....don't worry. Over on DIY Screens we teach the rankest Noobs how to make 'em up. So no matter how "rank" you are we'd have your back.
Thanks! I will take a look at the DIY section. Will a flat paint on the wall work just as good as a screen?
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post #1676 of 1696 Old 06-13-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Nightwing-DG View Post
Thanks! I will take a look at the DIY section. Will a flat paint on the wall work just as good as a screen?

Ask that question over on DIY Screens. A honest answer on here would be inflammatory......

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post #1677 of 1696 Old 06-16-2019, 04:06 PM
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I’m debating the 135” fixed frame between the white material, HC grey, or grey material. Using with a JVC RS540 (X790R).

This will be used in a non-light controlled living room setting, with a blackout curtain to separate it from the kitchen. Lots of times the viewing will be done from the kitchen though, during broad daylight. The room borders the backyard, and will have blinds to block out the sunlight. However, the room will never be truly dark. Even at night, if there’s no ambient light, there’s quite a bit of reflection from the white painted walls and the hardwood floors and some marble material.

There’s no way to make this a dedicated HT room, so I’m trying to make the best of it by getting a good screen. I’m not trying to spend more than $1k on a screen either, and ST is my best bet.

Maintaining the brightness factor during the day time, while having good black levels at night, will be my main goal.

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post #1678 of 1696 Old 06-16-2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solarium View Post
I’m debating the 135” fixed frame between the white material, HC grey, or grey material. Using with a JVC RS540 (X790R).

This will be used in a non-light controlled living room setting, with a blackout curtain to separate it from the kitchen. Lots of times the viewing will be done from the kitchen though, during broad daylight. The room borders the backyard, and will have blinds to block out the sunlight. However, the room will never be truly dark. Even at night, if there’s no ambient light, there’s quite a bit of reflection from the white painted walls and the hardwood floors and some marble material.

There’s no way to make this a dedicated HT room, so I’m trying to make the best of it by getting a good screen. I’m not trying to spend more than $1k on a screen either, and ST is my best bet.

Maintaining the brightness factor during the day time, while having good black levels at night, will be my main goal.
Same question, same answer.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58181932

A matte grey screen won't do much for ambient lights.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 06-16-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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post #1679 of 1696 Old 06-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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Not to pile-on, but I have the HC screen and any light will wash-out the picture.

Presumably you have a PJ already but it seems to me your room would do best with a flat panel display.
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post #1680 of 1696 Old 06-17-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Same question, same answer.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post58181932

A matte grey screen won't do much for ambient lights.
I was going to get the white material version, but someone on the JVC thread told me to consider the HC grey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Not to pile-on, but I have the HC screen and any light will wash-out the picture.

Presumably you have a PJ already but it seems to me your room would do best with a flat panel display.
I've been using a PJ on a 100 display (ES Cinewhite) for many years. Will be upgrading to a 135" hence now the consideration of a better anti ambient light material. I don't need to have perfect blacks levels and colors in the daylight, just something to help a bit.

I have already tested the ES Cinegrey 3D and 5D and did not find them to be significantly better than the plain white Cinewhite.

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