Screen Innovations Slate vs Black Diamond - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 76 Old 10-26-2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dsewardj View Post
Hi dr_bling,

My television is mounted to the wall and protrudes 3.5 inches outwards. To have the screen clear the television the canister was mounted to the ceiling using the three mounting brackets supplied with the screen. Due to the joist locations the screen is slightly off-center by a few inches, but I am probably the only one who would notice this. The ceiling height is 9ft and the lowest limit of the screen is easily adjustable with the supplied remote.

I have attached a few pictures of my current setup.
Which projector do you have?

Dave
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post #32 of 76 Old 10-26-2015, 01:25 PM
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I have a JVC DLA-HD350. It was a display model I picked up at Best Buy for $1000 three years ago. I honestly never intended on purchasing a projector but the price was right and they gave me an extended warranty. Now I am biding my time until 4K comes down in price.
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post #33 of 76 Old 10-26-2015, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Which projector do you have?

Dave
I have a old Runco CL-510 I purchased about a year ago to see if we would like using a projector. HDMI to DVI and it has a good pic for a old projector but I will be upgrading in the $1000 range. My issue is this will be in my family room without light control so these gray screens have me excited, I would just paint the wall if I could but I have a xbr65850b wall mounted so Im trying to figure out how to add a projector to this room without it looking Jerry rigged.

I have 10' ceilings and a seating distance of 12 feet but I only have 20" from the ceiling to my windows on my back wall to mount the projector. Will this be a issue ?

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post #34 of 76 Old 10-26-2015, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsewardj View Post
Hi dr_bling,

My television is mounted to the wall and protrudes 3.5 inches outwards. To have the screen clear the television the canister was mounted to the ceiling using the three mounting brackets supplied with the screen. Due to the joist locations the screen is slightly off-center by a few inches, but I am probably the only one who would notice this. The ceiling height is 9ft and the lowest limit of the screen is easily adjustable with the supplied remote.

I have attached a few pictures of my current setup.
Thanks for the pics, Its nice and clean. Which screen did you go with ?
Heres a pic of my room.
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Sony XBR65-850B and KDL-55 HX800
Marantz 1403
B&W 601's fronts , B&W CC6 Center and Athena micra rears
SVS PC12-NDS & Mirage Omni S10
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post #35 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 06:10 AM
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I decided to go with the Screen Innovations Slate 1.2 gain at 110". I replaced an older Stewart Firehawk manual pull down (which I still have in the basement, still trying to figure out what I should do with it.)

I love the screen and its awesome to see the looks on people's faces when the electric motor hums and the screen begins descending. The only thing I would caution is making sure your projector has enough lumens. The gain on the Slate is roughly the same as it was on the Firehawk and the Firehawk was noticeably brighter. When I make the jump to 4k I will be looking for a brighter projector.
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post #36 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsewardj View Post
I decided to go with the Screen Innovations Slate 1.2 gain at 110". I replaced an older Stewart Firehawk manual pull down (which I still have in the basement, still trying to figure out what I should do with it.)

I love the screen and its awesome to see the looks on people's faces when the electric motor hums and the screen begins descending. The only thing I would caution is making sure your projector has enough lumens. The gain on the Slate is roughly the same as it was on the Firehawk and the Firehawk was noticeably brighter. When I make the jump to 4k I will be looking for a brighter projector.
Interesting that you say that about the brightness. If we're talking about the same Firehawk this report has it noticeably dimmer than it's 1.25 reported gain. You sure you have a Slate 1.2 and not the .8?
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post #37 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 11:06 AM
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Yes I am certain I have the Slate 1.2. The screen is noticeably dimmer than the Stewart Firehawk, but not to the point where it has a negative affect upon the image. I prefer a brighter screen and suggest using a brighter projector than the JVC for this screen. I actually created a separate post asking people for advice about how bright the projector should be:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...-1-2-gain.html
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post #38 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dsewardj View Post
Yes I am certain I have the Slate 1.2. The screen is noticeably dimmer than the Stewart Firehawk, but not to the point where it has a negative affect upon the image. I prefer a brighter screen and suggest using a brighter projector than the JVC for this screen. I actually created a separate post asking people for advice about how bright the projector should be:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-scr...-1-2-gain.html
That's really strange. In Jeff's report the Firehawk comes in below a 1.0 gain and in the Projector Central report the Slate 1.2 at 1.18. However, Projector Central is reporting "peak gain" while Jeff's reports "on axis gain" so I'm not sure what the difference is. Based upon these reports I wouldn't have expected the Firehawk to be noticeably brighter
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post #39 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 11:40 AM
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Yes I was surprised and a bit disappointed when the brightness was noticeably dimmer than the Firehawk. I did quite a bit of research with Projector Central and other sources and was under the impression the Firehawk G4 had a peak gain of around 1.1, which is very close to that of the Slate 1.2.

I am very pleased with the performance of the Slate, but I know I can get a better image using a brighter projector. The image is completely fine, and my wife thinks I am absolutely crazy, but if I put the Firehawk and Slate side-by-side anyone could tell the Firehawk was brighter.

I wish I had some way of mounting the Firehawk next to the Slate and take pictures, but the Firehawk is a pull down screen and that would be difficult to do.
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post #40 of 76 Old 10-27-2015, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsewardj View Post
Yes I was surprised and a bit disappointed when the brightness was noticeably dimmer than the Firehawk. I did quite a bit of research with Projector Central and other sources and was under the impression the Firehawk G4 had a peak gain of around 1.1, which is very close to that of the Slate 1.2.

I am very pleased with the performance of the Slate, but I know I can get a better image using a brighter projector. The image is completely fine, and my wife thinks I am absolutely crazy, but if I put the Firehawk and Slate side-by-side anyone could tell the Firehawk was brighter.

I wish I had some way of mounting the Firehawk next to the Slate and take pictures, but the Firehawk is a pull down screen and that would be difficult to do.
I'm a "bright screen" guy myself. Some of us just like the extra pop and you notice it when it's gone. I don't think our wives are wired to notice these things.
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post #41 of 76 Old 11-04-2015, 08:40 PM
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between the 0.8 and 1.2 slate, did anyone choose the 0.8 and why?
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post #42 of 76 Old 11-25-2015, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by davisnub View Post
between the 0.8 and 1.2 slate, did anyone choose the 0.8 and why?
I would like to know also.
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post #43 of 76 Old 12-14-2015, 04:55 PM
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I would like to know also.
I'll be getting a Epson 6030 and will be looking at this screen. It'll be in a light controlled room, will this be a good option for me?
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post #44 of 76 Old 12-15-2015, 11:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by davisnub View Post
between the 0.8 and 1.2 slate, did anyone choose the 0.8 and why?
No one is choosing the .8 because you will either be constricted to using a small 100" screen or you will have to use a low contrast, high lumen light cannon projector to light up a larger .8 screen.
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post #45 of 76 Old 12-15-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottSFA View Post
I'll be getting a Epson 6030 and will be looking at this screen. It'll be in a light controlled room, will this be a good option for me?

I can maybe resemble this question a little. I have an Epson 5030 in a light controlled basement and the Slate was under serious consideration for me as I use it more as a media room than a bat cave. The local Best Buy had a Slate up in a display room so I took a white screen sample to compare it against and this is what I found:
1.) The middle third of the screen with or without some ambient lighting in the back of the room looked about the same with either material with any color other than black. The slate, with lights on in the back, preserved the blacks better. I would also say the slate added a slight richness to the colors which I found appealing in the middle 1/3 of the screen.
2.) Holding the white sample up on either side 1/3 of the screen demonstrated how drastically the viewing angle changes the brightness of the picture with the Slate. The white sample maintained color uniformity while the Slate dramatically dropped off in brightness on either side.
3.) Turn the lights off and white wins in every way with the exception of maybe a little extra color pop in the center third but it's minimal and perhaps it was just my perception vs. reality.


I was left with the conclusion that if you can control the lights why take the trade offs of an ALR screen when you don't have to. If, however, you're planning on watching movies that are dark throughout with the lights on low in the back then the Slate wins. Too much light and both screens washed out with the Slate only being slightly less so. Slate has it's place, I just don't think it's in a light controlled room. Part of the reason I was going to purchase a Microlite screen was for the off angle viewing eliminating that trade off but you may or may not have heard those can be tough to come by.


I am by no means a screen expert but that is what I found in consideration of the Slate.
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post #46 of 76 Old 12-17-2015, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post
No one is choosing the .8 because you will either be constricted to using a small 100" screen or you will have to use a low contrast, high lumen light cannon projector to light up a larger .8 screen.
so something like a 5030ub wouldnt be sufficient with a screen size of 120+ with the .8 slate?
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post #47 of 76 Old 12-17-2015, 11:05 AM
 
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so something like a 5030ub wouldnt be sufficient with a screen size of 120+ with the .8 slate?
No. You would have to use it on torch mode(dynamic) and that mode has bad color accuracy. And at 2500 lumens, 120"+ .8 screen would be dim. You would need a light cannon hitting 3000+ lumens to even attempt to light up a large .8 gain screen.
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post #48 of 76 Old 12-17-2015, 02:37 PM
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No. You would have to use it on torch mode(dynamic) and that mode has bad color accuracy. And at 2500 lumens, 120"+ .8 screen would be dim. You would need a light cannon hitting 3000+ lumens to even attempt to light up a large .8 gain screen.
To be honest, I'm a little worried even about the 1.2 gain Cinegrey 3D with the HW40ES. It looks pretty good, but the whites are a lot whiter on the 2.0 gain matinee silver. Too bad the off-axis shift is so pronounced with that screen.

I can definitely understand why you were drawn to the Epson 1440/1985WU.
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post #49 of 76 Old 12-17-2015, 04:58 PM
 
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To be honest, I'm a little worried even about the 1.2 gain Cinegrey 3D with the HW40ES. It looks pretty good, but the whites are a lot whiter on the 2.0 gain matinee silver. Too bad the off-axis shift is so pronounced with that screen.

I can definitely understand why you were drawn to the Epson 1440/1985WU.
Yep. You get what you pay for when it comes to alr screens. This is why Im not bothering with any other screens besides another Black Diamond or perhaps Microlite if they prove they exist. All alr screens have compromises. And lighter, cheaper materials are brighter with less artifacts, but their black levels will wash out in anything above low levels of ambient light.
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post #50 of 76 Old 12-18-2015, 08:57 PM
 
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Im struggling to decide if I should purchase a 110" Slate, however it seems tbat everyone is using them in dark rooms only. Does not appear anyone is using them for low to moderate ambient light viewing.
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post #51 of 76 Old 12-18-2015, 09:43 PM
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Im struggling to decide if I should purchase a 110" Slate, however it seems tbat everyone is using them in dark rooms only. Does not appear anyone is using them for low to moderate ambient light viewing.
This person has a couple videos. Maybe see if you can get them to post some more videos. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-o4sek08nZD7VI0AfyLgfA
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post #52 of 76 Old 12-18-2015, 11:02 PM
 
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This person has a couple videos. Maybe see if you can get them to post some more videos. https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC-o4sek08nZD7VI0AfyLgfA
Thanks for the link ch1sox. I actually saw it a few months back. I dismissed it back then because I thought the screen looked greyish and a bit washed out in that level of moderate ambient light. However I have revisited the video this week since I am seriously contemplating another Slate purchase.

Seems so many people are unhaply with the Blaci Diamond 1.4 due to various screen artifacts and poor off axis viewing. However it held black levels reasonably well under moderate ambient light in my opinion. Every light grey or silver colored alr screen Ive tried washes out easily under mild ambient light.

Im becoming extremely frustrated in my search.
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post #53 of 76 Old 12-18-2015, 11:35 PM
 
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Has anyone seen both the Slate 1.2 and the DNP Supernova a 23-23? Im wondering if tbe DNP 23-23 holds black levels any better than the Slate 1.2 under mild ambient light.
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post #54 of 76 Old 12-19-2015, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post
Thanks for the link ch1sox. I actually saw it a few months back. I dismissed it back then because I thought the screen looked greyish and a bit washed out in that level of moderate ambient light. However I have revisited the video this week since I am seriously contemplating another Slate purchase.

Seems so many people are unhaply with the Blaci Diamond 1.4 due to various screen artifacts and poor off axis viewing. However it held black levels reasonably well under moderate ambient light in my opinion. Every light grey or silver colored alr screen Ive tried washes out easily under mild ambient light.

Im becoming extremely frustrated in my search.
Yea it definitely can be tough having to weigh the good aspects vs negative. That's why I settled on a negative gain (less visual flaws) with dark material. It's not as bright as I'd like it to be, but I personally like the picture. Depending on your seating you may not even notice visual flaws so that could open up your options. If I didn't already get the microlite I'd probably be looking at the dnp 08-85, darkstar 9 or darkstar 1.4. I just haven't seen a Slate in person so can't say much about it. If you go to Screen Innovations website they have a dealer search option so you can go demo it. That's how I found a demo for the Black Diamond by me.
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post #55 of 76 Old 12-19-2015, 08:34 AM
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Yea it definitely can be tough having to weigh the good aspects vs negative. That's why I settled on a negative gain (less visual flaws) with dark material. It's not as bright as I'd like it to be, but I personally like the picture. Depending on your seating you may not even notice visual flaws so that could open up your options. If I didn't already get the microlite I'd probably be looking at the dnp 08-85, darkstar 9 or darkstar 1.4. I just haven't seen a Slate in person so can't say much about it. If you go to Screen Innovations website they have a dealer search option so you can go demo it. That's how I found a demo for the Black Diamond by me.
Are you suggesting you actually have a Microlite screen on your wall?
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post #56 of 76 Old 12-19-2015, 10:07 AM
 
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Are you suggesting you actually have a Microlite screen on your wall?
He is saying he ordered it. He has not received it. No one has received Microlite Vaporware 1.8 as of yet.
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post #57 of 76 Old 05-08-2017, 06:08 PM
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I currently have a white Elite AEON screen, I'm considering changing to the 1.2 Slate. I don't have an issue with outside ambient light but would it be beneficial with minimizing the light reflecting off the screen onto my white ceiling/walls? Thanks!
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post #58 of 76 Old 05-08-2017, 10:17 PM
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I currently have a white Elite AEON screen, I'm considering changing to the 1.2 Slate. I don't have an issue with outside ambient light but would it be beneficial with minimizing the light reflecting off the screen onto my white ceiling/walls? Thanks!
Yes, these ALR/light-fighting screens are also really good at minimizing the amount of reflections you'll have on the white walls/ceiling from the screen and also help minimize how badly those reflections affect the screen.
If you can't or don't want to paint the room a darker color (or otherwise tame the reflecting surfaces) an ALR screen can be a great alternative.

You may also want to compare samples of Elite's own CineGrey3D material against the Slate 1.2 because they are fairly similar in performance, but I believe the CineGrey3D is more color-neutral and less expensive.
You may also be able to save more by purchasing only the material from Elite to attach onto your existing frame...I'm not sure whether they offer that or not.

The slate 1.2 is a great option as well though.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #59 of 76 Old 05-12-2019, 06:04 AM
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I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd ask. SI mentions that their Black Diamond screen has gone through many revisions in terms of improving the screen. Have they managed to resolve the fine-grain sand like sparkly effect ?

Comparatively, the dnp supernova 08-85 screen material has absolutely no texture but it lacks the ability to reject light from the sides like the black diamond and needs a much brighter projector to achieve a nice image.

If SI could completely eliminate the texture on the black diamond material and retain the side light rejection without introducing colour shifts to the projected image, it would be the king of the hill.
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post #60 of 76 Old 05-13-2019, 12:08 PM
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I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd ask. SI mentions that their Black Diamond screen has gone through many revisions in terms of improving the screen. Have they managed to resolve the fine-grain sand like sparkly effect ?



Comparatively, the dnp supernova 08-85 screen material has absolutely no texture but it lacks the ability to reject light from the sides like the black diamond and needs a much brighter projector to achieve a nice image.



If SI could completely eliminate the texture on the black diamond material and retain the side light rejection without introducing colour shifts to the projected image, it would be the king of the hill.


I’ve been testing some SI screen samples both the Slate 0.8 & 1.2 and I didn’t see any sparkle effects. Keep in mind the samples are only like 8x10” maybe even 6x8” point is they are small so may not be big enough to generate the sparkle. The SI Pure Gray 0.85 did have a shimmer to it though so maybe they are big enough. The Slate 0.8 gives crazy contrast and amazing blacks but the whites also looked gray to me. I was doing my comparison with white screens at the same time so that could have biases what I was seeing with my eyes. The Slate 1.2 gave me the best overall color representation. I didn’t get any BD samples to test bc I going with one of the Solo screens and BD isn’t one of the standard screen options for that model. Although I’m sure with enough money it could be possible. It would be cool to compare those samples though.


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