Aeon Elite screen Cinegrey 3D - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 282 Old 01-17-2020, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan1995 View Post
Can anyone confirm that the gain of cinegrey 3D is negetive as mentioned in above thread. I heard that the gain chart on the Elite screen website for cinegrey 3D was accurate with max gain being 1.2 on axis...
The Cinegrey 3D hasn't been measured yet. The 5D when it was measured it was 33% less than claimed, 1.0 instead of 1.5:
https://www.accucalav.com/wp-content...een_report.pdf

Test Method
On Axis measurements are perpendicular to the screen
Off Axis measurements were taken 18 degrees to the side and 6 degrees down, but are of the same location as the on axis measurement point on the screen

Off axis were taken to measure the gain at the angle where the beam is reflected from a projector in the ceiling location.
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post #272 of 282 Old 01-18-2020, 06:21 AM
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For what it's worth, noob warned me against getting the Cinegrey3D but I got it anyway because of all the really good reviews. Lots of reviews say they don't have any hotspotting or sparkling.

I also have the perfect room for it in theory. Projector is mounted high, and far back, PJ (Epson Home Cinema 3800) also has Max horizontal shift set (60%). The angle should be right in the place that would angle back to me at my couch.

That being said, I have no hot spotting, but sparkling is noticible. I have spent the last few weeks adjusting the height of my PJ even further and have called Elite. I've adjusted picture settinfsz etc. In the daytime, the picture is unreal good. No sparkles. But at night , any scene with bright/light colors has noticible sparkles. Now, I may just be obsessing about them. My girlfriend can't even notice them. One of my friends thinks it's acceptable altho he can see it, and the other can't really notice it either.

I got the screen from Amazon so may return it and try either the flat white or the Cinegrey (not 3D).

I'll spend more time messing with mounting options altho I do feel ive done almost everything I can . My viewing distance is 15 feet BTW.
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post #273 of 282 Old 01-18-2020, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
For what it's worth, noob warned me against getting the Cinegrey3D but I got it anyway because of all the really good reviews. Lots of reviews say they don't have any hotspotting or sparkling.

I also have the perfect room for it in theory. Projector is mounted high, and far back, PJ (Epson Home Cinema 3800) also has Max horizontal shift set (60%). The angle should be right in the place that would angle back to me at my couch.

That being said, I have no hot spotting, but sparkling is noticible. I have spent the last few weeks adjusting the height of my PJ even further and have called Elite. I've adjusted picture settinfsz etc. In the daytime, the picture is unreal good. No sparkles. But at night , any scene with bright/light colors has noticible sparkles. Now, I may just be obsessing about them. My girlfriend can't even notice them. One of my friends thinks it's acceptable altho he can see it, and the other can't really notice it either.

I got the screen from Amazon so may return it and try either the flat white or the Cinegrey (not 3D).

I'll spend more time messing with mounting options altho I do feel ive done almost everything I can . My viewing distance is 15 feet BTW.
I remember seeing a hotspot on a white background in a deleted post.

Samples are better in non ALR fabrics then with ALR fabrics since they don't hotspot.
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post #274 of 282 Old 01-21-2020, 03:14 PM
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Elite suggested Drew Dough mount the projector higher to improve the image.
With the W2000/HT3050 which has an offset of 105%, mounted it 7 inches higher and used the lens shift at 0%. The hotspot was still there.
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post #275 of 282 Old 01-21-2020, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley True View Post
Here are some pics woth white back grounds . Yes you can see hot spotting but how often are you looking at images of just a white back ground . Absolutely never . How a lofted are you looking a a picture with a persons in a totally white back ground .. never .. just watching regular movie I don’t think it’s noticeable so who cares .. . This is my opinion .. yes I would like the picture to be perfect but that probably cost a lot of money and theater room etc ..I understand true search for perfection .
With a hotspot, or even without one, the edges are dimmer than the center. In this case, to illustrate how dark the edges get with the Cinegrey 3D/other ALR with a hotpost I placed two pieces of white A4 paper in the upper left corner. Same scenarios as on the previous page.

The greyscale (16-235) is set for the ALR, not the white paper.
Without the paper it's nor really that noticeable, but the paper really makes the difference clear in bright scenes.
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post #276 of 282 Old 02-01-2020, 06:25 AM
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hi guys!
i post here also my experience with the cinegrey.
Together with my jvc RS46 previously i projected to the white (not clear one) wall.
I've got a living room, all white walls, parquet clear ecc...totally dark but sooo much light from the walls.

My jvc is stunning image of course, contrasts and blacks but i wanted to boost the experience. I use the jvc in low lamp, -12\13 iris, ligtht is not a problem on this model expecially with a 92 inches 203 width and 3,60m far lens\screen.
Everything is respected, lens throw ecc for the cinegrey

First of all arrived the velcro one, which i don't like, it's almost impossible to mount. First reason to ship back (i bought via amazon).
The result are suttning for something and not like for others, for this reason after couple of hours decided to ship back.
Hot spot is minimal, no chance to see it in a normal usage. Uniformity of jvc helps and also the perfect throw distance and not big big screen. Sparkling zero.
Contrast is boosted, black is ultra black now, contrast is superb and in some point seems really an oled (with better colors in my opinion). Total black screen with a center white figure is stunning. Colors very nice.

BUT
Birghtness is much lower...this is no chance to be a 1.2 gain, more likely 0,8 and 0,5 on the sides....I put it just below my wall to see the differences and in a sunnt day one was sunny (probably even too much) and with the screen is cloudy...that feeling i hate.
The white point is very good.

Overall probably will see for the 5D even that is not really a 1.5 but surely is better. And will see...
For me does not worth the 500 euros, i mean i wouldn't pay that for it.
totally i would say native contrast of my jvc on wall is 8\10, on screen 10\10. Birghntess 8\10 wall and 4-5/10 on screen.

I didnt' get what is difference a part of gain from 5D...i mean...300 euros more is huge. Probably will try and send it back again even the 5D
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post #277 of 282 Old 02-20-2020, 10:43 PM
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Can someone explain to me that if the real gain of cinegrey 3d is 0.8 then why it shows hot spotting I thought only the positive gain screen show hotspots?
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post #278 of 282 Old 02-21-2020, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan1995 View Post
Can someone explain to me that if the real gain of cinegrey 3d is 0.8 then why it shows hot spotting I thought only the positive gain screen show hotspots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by satyab View Post
Part of the reason for low numbers is my budget screen Elite Cinegrey 3D and small amount of lighting from windows. Screen is advertised as 1.1 gain, but as per chad it was only 0.7.

Hotspotting can manifest regardless of gain, if the projector is too close. It's because of how the technology works, like a mirror. The closer it gets, the reflection of the beam sent at the edges goes further away from the viewer's position.
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post #279 of 282 Old 02-21-2020, 12:52 PM
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Hot-spotting isn't because of how close it is, it's because of the gain *relative to the surface color*.

The final on axis gain may be 0.8, but this screen still has angular gain to reflect ambient light. That means the gain at 45 degrees may be 0.4 or less. So a short throw will hit light on the screen at a wide angle, and the gain at those angles will be lower.

The final on axis gain is a combination of the angular gain of the screen as well as the base lambertian gain (background color) of the material.
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post #280 of 282 Old 02-21-2020, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley True View Post
Here are some pics woth white back grounds . Yes you can see hot spotting but how often are you looking at images of just a white back ground . Absolutely never . How a lofted are you looking a a picture with a persons in a totally white back ground .. never .. just watching regular movie I don’️t think it’️s noticeable so who cares .. . This is my opinion .. yes I would like the picture to be perfect but that probably cost a lot of money and theater room etc ..I understand true search for perfection .
With a hotspot, or even without one, the edges are dimmer than the center. In this case, to illustrate how dark the edges get with the Cinegrey 3D/other ALR with a hotpost I placed two pieces of white A4 paper in the upper left corner. Same scenarios as on the previous page.

The greyscale (16-235) is set for the ALR, not the white paper.
Without the paper it's nor really that noticeable, but the paper really makes the difference clear in bright scenes.
What throw Ratio are you using here?
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post #281 of 282 Old 02-21-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cryptic7 View Post
What throw Ratio are you using here?
~1.5x, the longest throw the projector is capable of.
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post #282 of 282 Old 02-21-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic7 View Post
Hot-spotting isn't because of how close it is, it's because of the gain *relative to the surface color*.

The final on axis gain may be 0.8, but this screen still has angular gain to reflect ambient light. That means the gain at 45 degrees may be 0.4 or less. So a short throw will hit light on the screen at a wide angle, and the gain at those angles will be lower.

The final on axis gain is a combination of the angular gain of the screen as well as the base lambertian gain (background color) of the material.
The distance from the screen is defacto a component in how the hotspot manifest itself for the reason mention in the post above. The others as you said are the added gain and half angle/viewing cone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
BUT...there's also another reason: Not all gray screens are dim. Many, most these days, combine the gray screen color with an overlay of optical coating. The optical coating is used to increase the reflectivity and hence the brightness of the image, so it doesn't get too dim. The coating also makes the reflective characteristics of the gray screen more mirror-like in it's directionality, so that the projector light is reflected more towards the viewer, less on to the surrounding walls. (If you are facing a white wall and someone shines a fashlight from above your head on an angle at the wall, the white wall will diffuse the light and light will scatter everywhere, lighting up the rest of the room, like a white screen does. Replace the wall with a mirror - now there is no diffusion of the image of the flashlight - what you see reflected is the focused beam of light right into your eyes). In this way, gray screens with optical gain can have a satisfyingly bright image while also helping maintain good contrast if you have some ambient light, or reflective room surfaces.

BUT...there is a trade off. When you add optical coating to make the reflection more mirror-like, you are of necessity focusing the light to a smaller central area of the screen. This results in uneven screen illumination known as "hot-spotting," where - especially apparent if you have a blank white image - you can see the projector beam being focused more in the center of the screen, and the screen dims significantly as you move off center to the edges of the screen. So it's like a mild spot-light effect in terms of brightness.

This has implications for the "gray screen looks dimmer than a white screen" effect. A good example is the difference between the original Stewart Firehawk gray screen with gain, rated 1.3 gain, and Stewarts ST-130 white screen, also rated 1.3 gain. Being rated the same gain suggests they "should" put out exactly the same bright image. But they don't. The white screen has a very modest bit of optical gain applied, which results in very little hot-spotting and to our eyes very even illumination across the whole screen. The gray screen requires more aggressive levels of optical coating to get brightness up to the same 1.3 gain levels, and that more aggressive coating means more focusing of hte light, and hence more hot-spotting. In other words, you get the "bright center" and dimming away from the center effect.

So put on the same image on both the white ST-130 screen and the gray Firehawk screen, and only the center of the Firehawk image will look as bright - the rest, most of the image, fades in brightness and therefore is, and looks, dimmer. So, for all intents and purposes, even though they are rated the same gain for brightness, most of the image on the gray screen is in reality dimmer. The same image on the white screen will have an even brightness across the whole screen and hence it will seem to have brighter whites and more "pop" for the same image brightness coming from the projector. The gray screen will always have this uneven light, fading brightness problem.
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