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post #151 of 249 Old 09-19-2018, 07:26 AM
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Thanks, here is a diagram of the profile and a photo of the back. Unfortunately there are no channels to slide grip rails, and the distance between the flat area of the back and the lip where the screen and front edge meet is very shallow. This is much smaller than even 1/2" height of grip rail (maybe 1/4", the height of the screwed in snap in the photo. In this post you can see how I removed these and switched to grommeted Falcon material) and so I think the screen would be held away from the frame. I think I'd need to use a different frame, though I now recall I have some Fabricmate rail samples and so I'll take my screen down and experiment.
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post #152 of 249 Old 09-19-2018, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
Thanks, here is a diagram of the profile and a photo of the back. Unfortunately there are no channels to slide grip rails, and the distance between the flat area of the back and the lip where the screen and front edge meet is very shallow. This is much smaller than even 1/2" height of grip rail (maybe 1/4", the height of the screwed in snap in the photo. In this post you can see how I removed these and switched to grommeted Falcon material) and so I think the screen would be held away from the frame. I think I'd need to use a different frame, though I now recall I have some Fabricmate rail samples and so I'll take my screen down and experiment.



Perhaps this slot is of sufficient width? You just glue the rails on, and although you would get a slight elevation perhaps as the rail builds up a couple of mm, I hardly think that will be visible / an issue...
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post #153 of 249 Old 09-22-2018, 10:45 AM
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I just took the screen down and measured with my combination square. The lowest part of the aluminum frame is 5mm below the lip of the screen surface, but is only 11mm lower than the outer edge of the frame. I don't think I'd be able to get the frame onto the hanger rail with the grip rail also in place. Looks like I'd have to buy the frame too. Not a big deal, just more storing of bits while they sell

Edit: I placed a piece of Fabricmate rail on the frame, and it was slightly proud of the outer part of the frame.

Last edited by dlinsley; 09-22-2018 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Added Fabricmate comment
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post #154 of 249 Old 09-22-2018, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
I just took the screen down and measured with my combination square. The lowest part of the aluminum frame is 5mm below the lip of the screen surface, but is only 11mm lower than the outer edge of the frame. I don't think I'd be able to get the frame onto the hanger rail with the grip rail also in place. Looks like I'd have to buy the frame too. Not a big deal, just more storing of bits while they sell

Edit: I placed a piece of Fabricmate rail on the frame, and it was slightly proud of the outer part of the frame.
OK, got it. I do not believe that a slight elevation above the frame would be much of an issue, but if the rails hinder the attachment of the frame I guess it might be hard to do nonetheless...

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post #155 of 249 Old 09-27-2018, 03:09 PM
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I'd like to consider the latest V6 ultraweave screen. I currently have the Center Stage XD (also known as Enlightor-Bright) material in a Seymour "F140XS Premier" fixed frame screen. My screen wall was built entirely around this frame which is flush mounted in the screen wall. IOW the frame is not on a wall, but rather tightly integrated *into* the wall. As such, it would be costly and complex to retrofit a new frame into my theater.

With that in mind, I'd like to know how I may be able to seamlessly integrate the V6 material into my existing frame. The Center Stage XD screen is mounted via grommets. How can I figure out whether the mounting rails would fit into the existing frame? What type of dimensions/clearances inside the frame would I need? I'm not crazy about the idea of permanently gluing rails inside the frame, as it could limit my ability to switch back to using grommets in the future (?) or switching to a different screen material which may require another way to mount, for which the rails may then be in the way and non-removable.

Thank you.
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post #156 of 249 Old 09-27-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I'd like to consider the latest V6 ultraweave screen. I currently have the Center Stage XD (also known as Enlightor-Bright) material in a Seymour "F140XS Premier" fixed frame screen. My screen wall was built entirely around this frame which is flush mounted in the screen wall. IOW the frame is not on a wall, but rather tightly integrated *into* the wall. As such, it would be costly and complex to retrofit a new frame into my theater.

With that in mind, I'd like to know how I may be able to seamlessly integrate the V6 material into my existing frame. The Center Stage XD screen is mounted via grommets. How can I figure out whether the mounting rails would fit into the existing frame? What type of dimensions/clearances inside the frame would I need? I'm not crazy about the idea of permanently gluing rails inside the frame, as it could limit my ability to switch back to using grommets in the future (?) or switching to a different screen material which may require another way to mount, for which the rails may then be in the way and non-removable.

Thank you.
You only need a 14mm or a bit over half an inch slot to fit those universal rails. If you don´t like them at some point, they are always possible to remove, and although the leftover glue might not look that nice it´s on the back of the frame after all... The system is really easy to use, just make sure you let the glue (this one from Home Depot for example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gorilla-...0003/206063265, the strong construction types of glue are my favourite, but other types will work too) dry overnight and use either a metal pizza cutter, or even better, one of those Fabricmate installation tools to tuck the fabric (or our own, but currently not available in the US). The fabric has just a little bit of tension available to it, allowing for a "drum tight" installation (and will remain drum tight too...), and there is no need to install each corner first and so on, you can just do the entire upper long side first, then I normally do one of the short sides, then the lower long side and finally the last short side. Just keep pulling the fabric a little while installing it at both directions and you´ll get a perfectly tensioned surface. If there is an area you were not able to tension perfectly you just redo just that part.

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post #157 of 249 Old 09-27-2018, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
You only need a 14mm or a bit over half an inch slot to fit those universal rails. If you don´t like them at some point, they are always possible to remove, and although the leftover glue might not look that nice it´s on the back of the frame after all... The system is really easy to use, just make sure you let the glue (this one from Home Depot for example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gorilla-...0003/206063265, the strong construction types of glue are my favourite, but other types will work too) dry overnight and use either a metal pizza cutter, or even better, one of those Fabricmate installation tools to tuck the fabric (or our own, but currently not available in the US). The fabric has just a little bit of tension available to it, allowing for a "drum tight" installation (and will remain drum tight too...), and there is no need to install each corner first and so on, you can just do the entire upper long side first, then I normally do one of the short sides, then the lower long side and finally the last short side. Just keep pulling the fabric a little while installing it at both directions and you´ll get a perfectly tensioned surface. If there is an area you were not able to tension perfectly you just redo just that part.
From looking at that construction glue, it doesn't seem like the universal rails would be removable...?

What are the dimensions of the rails, and are the lengths adjustable, so that they can be fit tight, or do they need to be measured and cut on site?

Would it be possible to order with a grommet system? Someone else was asking here recently about that. Much cleaner install without having to worry about doing a good job tucking fabric.
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post #158 of 249 Old 09-27-2018, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
From looking at that construction glue, it doesn't seem like the universal rails would be removable...?

What are the dimensions of the rails, and are the lengths adjustable, so that they can be fit tight, or do they need to be measured and cut on site?

Would it be possible to order with a grommet system? Someone else was asking here recently about that. Much cleaner install without having to worry about doing a good job tucking fabric.
The rail is slightly under 1/2" wide and 1/4" in height. Sent you pictures of the grip rail. It is plastic and you trim to length. You do not want to use grommets. That would be a point tension. You want continuous tension. installs in the rails easily and tensions very easy.
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post #159 of 249 Old 09-27-2018, 10:35 PM
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The rail is slightly under 1/2" wide and 1/4" in height. Sent you pictures of the grip rail. It is plastic and you trim to length. You do not want to use grommets. That would be a point tension. You want continuous tension. installs in the rails easily and tensions very easy.
Oh, 1/4" high, I might be able to make that work too. I didn't realize, I thought it was 1/2" high.

Mike, on your retrofit project I read you screwed the grip rail. Is this the same grip rail? (Fabricmate grip rail has a very wide flat area for stapling or screwing)

Note: My Fabricmate track samples were 1/2" high. I didn't realize they also do 1/4" in the Display board section rather than Acoustical section!

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post #160 of 249 Old 09-28-2018, 02:08 PM
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Oh, 1/4" high, I might be able to make that work too. I didn't realize, I thought it was 1/2" high.

Mike, on your retrofit project I read you screwed the grip rail. Is this the same grip rail? (Fabricmate grip rail has a very wide flat area for stapling or screwing)

Note: My Fabricmate track samples were 1/2" high. I didn't realize they also do 1/4" in the Display board section rather than Acoustical section!
The flat on the grip rail is only 5/16" wide, but it is wide enough to use small screws. I used screws, because it would have been hard to just glue mine, since it had to be placed on outside edge of my curved frame, due to masking system. I placed screws 3" on center. Then I placed a bead of glue on the back side.
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post #161 of 249 Old 09-28-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
The flat on the grip rail is only 5/16" wide, but it is wide enough to use small screws. I used screws, because it would have been hard to just glue mine, since it had to be placed on outside edge of my curved frame, due to masking system. I placed screws 3" on center. Then I placed a bead of glue on the back side.
An aluminum frame will be much harder than wooden frame though
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post #162 of 249 Old 09-29-2018, 10:18 AM
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An aluminum frame will be much harder than wooden frame though
I used self-drilling screws in my Carada aluminum frame to fit the Falcon AT material. I may have to use a smaller size for the grip rails though - I can test when I receive the track samples. If it doesn't work, I'll buy the frame - the combo price is very very good.
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post #163 of 249 Old 09-29-2018, 10:44 AM
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The flat on the grip rail is only 5/16" wide, but it is wide enough to use small screws. I used screws, because it would have been hard to just glue mine, since it had to be placed on outside edge of my curved frame, due to masking system. I placed screws 3" on center. Then I placed a bead of glue on the back side.
The flat running along the wood surface is confusing me - I would have thought the flat would have been on the black surface.

Please see the attached picture so I can see if I have this straight. In the picture the green lines represent the vertical "posts" in my Seymour Premier fixed frame. The red line represents the line where I would push up against the posts prior to mounting. Note that the flat would be at 90 degrees to the posts, yes? And the yellow line represents the area where the fabric is tucked if I understand it. Further it sounds like the flat area is about 1/2" wide in total, with about 1/4" being the available flat area to get a screw into? And the total height is about 1/4"?
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post #164 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 02:34 AM
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The flat running along the wood surface is confusing me - I would have thought the flat would have been on the black surface.

Please see the attached picture so I can see if I have this straight. In the picture the green lines represent the vertical "posts" in my Seymour Premier fixed frame. The red line represents the line where I would push up against the posts prior to mounting. Note that the flat would be at 90 degrees to the posts, yes? And the yellow line represents the area where the fabric is tucked if I understand it. Further it sounds like the flat area is about 1/2" wide in total, with about 1/4" being the available flat area to get a screw into? And the total height is about 1/4"?
Your analysis looks about right, @lovingdvd . We normally would recommend glueing rather than screwing or at least a combination if screwing is to be used, and you should also pre-drill the rail if you´re using screws. We do have a more rugged rail available as well that we use for our MotoMask frames (also available at AVScience), but given that you´re limited on space these slim ones are probably more suited anyhow.

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post #165 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 06:44 AM
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Your analysis looks about right, @lovingdvd . We normally would recommend glueing rather than screwing or at least a combination if screwing is to be used, and you should also pre-drill the rail if you´re using screws. We do have a more rugged rail available as well that we use for our MotoMask frames (also available at AVScience), but given that you´re limited on space these slim ones are probably more suited anyhow.
Thanks Lygren. I prefer to glue because that seems like less work than using screws and with screws it's possibly my subwoofers could cause a rattle I suppose. However I need to be able to remove the rails in the future, so if years from now I want to go with a different screen type I have access to the posts for grommets or a new type of rail/track that may be needed at the time. With the construction glue I've seen talked about for using with this, I can't imagine that I could get the rails unglued if need be. I wonder if there is some other type of glue that would be strong enough to hold over the years, yet in a way that may come apart more easily should that be needed?
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post #166 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 06:52 AM
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Thanks Lygren. I prefer to glue because that seems like less work than using screws and with screws it's possibly my subwoofers could cause a rattle I suppose. However I need to be able to remove the rails in the future, so if years from now I want to go with a different screen type I have access to the posts for grommets or a new type of rail/track that may be needed at the time. With the construction glue I've seen talked about for using with this, I can't imagine that I could get the rails unglued if need be. I wonder if there is some other type of glue that would be strong enough to hold over the years, yet in a way that may come apart more easily should that be needed?

In order to remove the rails you simply jack up the end using a screwdriver or the like, apply a good amount of force and rip them off...


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post #167 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 06:56 AM
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In order to remove the rails you simply jack up the end using a screwdriver or the like, apply a good amount of force and rip them off...


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You have done this before? And with what glue exactly?
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post #168 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 07:01 AM
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You have done this before? And with what glue exactly?


Bunch of times, and even the strongest there is, Casco Xtremefix allows for pulloff if needed be. The construction glues are strong, but also somewhat flexible, which is why a strong ‘point source’ force normally enables you to detach the rails using this type of glue. If you’re using a stiffer / non-flexible contact adhesive it might be a bit harder, but even those normally comes off...


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post #169 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 09:58 AM
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V6 Dreamscreen with fabric guard
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post #170 of 249 Old 10-01-2018, 10:41 AM
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V6 Dreamscreen with fabric guard
Thanks @Lasalle , looks amazing! The frame looks very sturdy and the fabric is tensioned up perfectly it seems, great job!!

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post #171 of 249 Old 10-03-2018, 07:16 PM
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I finally ordered my screen today! 120" wide 2.37:1 including the Screen Science by AVS frame. I'll post some pictures once I receive it and have it mounted.
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post #172 of 249 Old 10-04-2018, 04:24 AM
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I finally ordered my screen today! 120" wide 2.37:1 including the Screen Science by AVS frame. I'll post some pictures once I receive it and have it mounted.
Congrats! Look forward to reading your feedback!

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post #173 of 249 Old 10-04-2018, 03:45 PM
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Some of you might find w.mayers findings on the sharpness of the UltraWeave V6 interesting. He recently installed the largest XXL screen yet, 3x7,5m (10´ x 24 1/2´), using a Barco THOR 4K native 3-chip DLP 15K lumen 6P laser to lit it up... Quote "This is very good news for many people that looking for a acoustic transparent screen material that “not soften the picture”. When you have a fabric screen that not show the pixels this material soften the picture to some degree for sure. This V6 material was the first that not do it! It act like a conventional screen so it not decrease at all details and sharpness and not soften the picture. This is “to my knowledge” the first fabric that act this way! WOW!". More info: http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-hi-end...10/msg5259#new.

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post #174 of 249 Old 10-04-2018, 04:33 PM
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I have an Elite Screens Sable frame, and I'm looking to replace the material.

The frame already has a groove for the rod system that Elite Screens uses. Will the grip rails tuck into these grooves nicely? I'd like there to be no depth offset between the inner edge of the frame and the screen material, if possible.
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post #175 of 249 Old 10-05-2018, 12:53 AM
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I have an Elite Screens Sable frame, and I'm looking to replace the material.

The frame already has a groove for the rod system that Elite Screens uses. Will the grip rails tuck into these grooves nicely? I'd like there to be no depth offset between the inner edge of the frame and the screen material, if possible.
Do you have a picture or schematics of the frame? What´s basically required is a slot somewhere about 1/2" wide. If you can´t get all the way out to the corners with the tracks that is normally not a problem though, and if there are screws along the track it´s no problem either cutting the non-tucking part of track a little and / or simply cut the entire rail before and after the screw and leave the fabric not tensioned just over small portions.

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post #176 of 249 Old 10-05-2018, 02:14 AM
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Do you have a picture or schematics of the frame? What´s basically required is a slot somewhere about 1/2" wide. If you can´t get all the way out to the corners with the tracks that is normally not a problem though, and if there are screws along the track it´s no problem either cutting the non-tucking part of track a little and / or simply cut the entire rail before and after the screw and leave the fabric not tensioned just over small portions.
I attached a diagram of the frame's cross-section. I'm not sure exactly how wide the slot is. My guess is that it's between 3/8" and 1/2". I'll have to do some disassembly to measure the width and depth of the slot. Should be able to do that this weekend.

The slot goes around the entire frame with no screws or interferences.
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post #177 of 249 Old 10-05-2018, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bochoss View Post
I attached a diagram of the frame's cross-section. I'm not sure exactly how wide the slot is. My guess is that it's between 3/8" and 1/2". I'll have to do some disassembly to measure the width and depth of the slot. Should be able to do that this weekend.

The slot goes around the entire frame with no screws or interferences.
Not sure what the relative dimensions are on your drawing, but please see my suggested placement of the grip rail. It would have to be glued on at that position, but should work fine. Depending on the height of that outer "lip" you might have a very slight recess of the fabric over it, but it should be very slight and is probably not a big deal...

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post #178 of 249 Old 10-07-2018, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
Not sure what the relative dimensions are on your drawing, but please see my suggested placement of the grip rail. It would have to be glued on at that position, but should work fine. Depending on the height of that outer "lip" you might have a very slight recess of the fabric over it, but it should be very slight and is probably not a big deal...
I took a look at the groove in my Elite Screens frame. It's only 1/4" wide by 1/4" deep.

1.) Would it be possible to trim off the flat part of the grip rails, and just stick the round part in the groove? I could glue it in there, and also use the existing clips (plates) to keep the rail in there for good measure. Are samples offered for the grip rails to test this?

2.) I see that the only scope size for UltraFrame is 149" diagonal. This is slightly too big for my room. Do any other sizes exist that aren't on the site?
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post #179 of 249 Old 10-08-2018, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bochoss View Post
I took a look at the groove in my Elite Screens frame. It's only 1/4" wide by 1/4" deep.



1.) Would it be possible to trim off the flat part of the grip rails, and just stick the round part in the groove? I could glue it in there, and also use the existing clips (plates) to keep the rail in there for good measure. Are samples offered for the grip rails to test this?



2.) I see that the only scope size for UltraFrame is 149" diagonal. This is slightly too big for my room. Do any other sizes exist that aren't on the site?


Hi @bochoss !

1. I don’t think stability will be sufficient if you cut off the flat part unfortunately.

2. AVScience now has a number of sizes available from their in-house compatible frame (fits the grip rails), they probably have the size you need.

As for DreamScreen frames, we have more sizes available in cinescope native too, but only for that more rugged MotoMask PRO version which starts off at 1899USD for the frame only in 122» cinescope. Masking system is additional 1499USD, but can be retrofit.

Anyhows, give AVS a call and I’m sure they have a fitting option for you!


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post #180 of 249 Old 10-14-2018, 07:16 AM
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w.mayer has posted some pics of his finished 7,3m wide V6 XXL install at the DCI-forum; http://dci-forum.com/d-cinema-hi-end...icseen#msg5287. I have attached the pics here, please note the person on the right to get a better impression of the size of that thing! Again; 4K 6P Barco Thor laser @15K lumens.





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Last edited by Lygren; 10-14-2018 at 07:19 AM.
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