DreamScreen V6 UltraWeave AT Screen - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 246 Old 08-10-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
So, while I have not seen any of the fabric samples you have compared to here - one important thing you need to make sure of when comparing is to use a black backing also on the other fabrics that does not have one integrated. Since you are referring to the UltraWeave as "grey" I presume you might have not used a black backing on the others as most AT fabrics would appear "greyish" when mixing in the backing. Also, without a backing on the others you would combine the reflection of the sample and the wall / fabric / whatever reflective in its back.

In general, the UltraWeave is certainly not "dim". It has a real gain value of 0.8 benchmarked vs. the Studiotek 100. Some of the coarser weaves has up to 0.9, but at the cost of AT. Spandex has typically about 0.7 and most other finer weaves (albeit not as fine as the UltraWeave made possible by using our patented hybrid layout designing and custom manufacturing this fabric...) has about 0.75-0.8.

As for acoustical transparency, I have been testing - and testing live that is - a huge number of screen materials as well as various compositions of our patented layout the past 12 years or so with our reference Alcons Audio CRMS system installed in the baffle residing behind the screen. The difference between a 1,5dB v6 and a 3-5dB drop alternative is - for my ears at least - substantial. Perhaps not that much when SPL is at reference level - but I mean - even movies that feature reference level audio has subtle parts. Also, if blockage is sufficiently high, I would say past 4dB at peak (which is the case for a lot of the coarser, higher gain weaves) - the sound also appears as somewhat muffled (like speaking into a box) even at quite substantial SPL´s.

As such, our aim has always been to find the best possible combination of video and audio performance, whereas the audio performance is as important in my mind as video. We will continue to try to improve on all aspects of our patented hybrid weave + knit layout, but will certainly keep our focus on maintaining the audio performance while doing so.

We will be back at CEDIA @ Denver in September alongside Alcons Audio again, so if anyone is in the area please feel free to step by for a stellar demo!
We use a piece of black felt behind our samples when we do our testing. The DreamScreen sample that we have is definitely grey compared to those other samples. And even when we just hold the samples in our hands, the DreamScreen is noticably greyer. Even though I only have a POS camera on my phone, I can try to take some pics, as well as one of sparkle, but they probably won't come out very good. I also need to figure out how to upload pics here.

As far as audio goes, I haven't been able to test that, as all I have so far are some samples. I don't even have any speakers yet!
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post #242 of 246 Old 08-11-2019, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletoes2035 View Post
We use a piece of black felt behind our samples when we do our testing. The DreamScreen sample that we have is definitely grey compared to those other samples. And even when we just hold the samples in our hands, the DreamScreen is noticably greyer. Even though I only have a POS camera on my phone, I can try to take some pics, as well as one of sparkle, but they probably won't come out very good. I also need to figure out how to upload pics here.

As far as audio goes, I haven't been able to test that, as all I have so far are some samples. I don't even have any speakers yet!
OK, good with the black felt at least. I guess for the conclusions it might be a good idea to wait for a new sample... If the other samples are typically a bit more roughly woven variants like the XD they will appear whiter though. The UltraWeave uses a very tightly woven ultra thin front layer, which is certainly much finer than the alternative woven single layers, but also a bit more transparent in terms of light. Even though you can see through this initial layer (onto the knitted backing layers, first a white layer and then a black backing layer, both integrated / bonded) when looking at the fabric close up, however, when reflecting light from it, your eyes are only perceiving the structure of the initial woven layer. This is also the patent of the fabric, i.e. an initial ultra fine woven surface coating and a secondary knitted, much coarser one.

Using only a single woven layer of thicker threads - albeit it will a times provide a little more gain (but often at the cost of speckle as many manufacturers gloss the threads used to increase gain) allows for less air to pass through, which again leads to lower AT. A "quick test" in terms of AT is to just blow through the sample. You should make sure you include the black backing when you blow through the alternatives. Other than that, the rougher weave also has far more visible structural appearance than the UltraWeave, which basically emulates a regular PVC-based (non-AT) surface coating. So, although you might be able to obtain a little gain - let´s say 10-15% by choosing a coarser basic weave, you would loose out on the structural appearance and AT.

Higher gain is not the case for all coarser weaves BTW, for example the Screen Research 4K woven material measures a little lower gain than the v6 in our lab, but this is also quite acoustically transparent (about 2,4dB on average compared to about 1,5dB on the v6). However, again, the structural appearance of the v6 is way finer and the black backing is integrated on the v6. So, increasing gain beyond the Screen Research on a single layer basic weave, like the XD for example, is done by tightening up the weave - which again is at the (high) cost of AT...

As for the comment on speckle I am really not sure what is causing this other than the sample being somehow contaminated. I am extremely fantastisk absolutely obsessed by speckle, and we are custom bleaching the threads used in the UltraWeave to obtain that ultra matte appearance that also secures no speckle. So, again, awaiting a new sample would be my advice although if gain is your ultimate goal in this and AT is not of critical importance and you have sufficient seating distance I am sure you will be pleased with something else, we can´t win em´ all...
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Last edited by Lygren; 08-11-2019 at 04:19 AM.
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post #243 of 246 Old 08-11-2019, 02:15 AM
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I should also add that proper light reflection comparisons should be made out after D65 benchmarking the samples. Please notice that while we custom dye the fabric to hit D65 with >98-99% perfection, a lot of the others use readily made threads to make out their fabrics to avoid the cost of custom dye (which requires massive production volumes...). Many of these fabrics are too blue, green or whatever - a tint you need to spend light from the projector calibrating off. Again, if D65 is not of importance to you this might not be relevant either, but you can easily have to discard 5% of the light available to compensate for various types of tints in fabric not sufficiently D65 neutral.

However, upon first "glance" a D65 dyed fabric always looks more "dim" than a blueish tinted fabric - which looks more "paper white" in comparison to the D65 variant. D65 white actually looks quite yellowish compared to a white sheet of paper, but that is how it is supposed to be and how the movies and all video content is actually mastered which is also why you want your fabric to appear as neutral as possible in such regards.
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post #244 of 246 Old 09-02-2019, 02:34 PM
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Just a little reminder and update on the upcoming CEDIA show. DreamScreen is yet again part of the magnificent Alcons Pro-Ribbon Immersive Experience demo, located at Soundroom 13 (SR-13). Alcons will be featuring a full 9.x(6).6 layout, processed by Storm Audio, featuring their CRMS (Cinema Reference Monitoring System) consisting of a 3-way CRMS as LCR´s, CRMS compacts as surrounds and the new CRMS 18" ultra long excursion driver sub. Alcons is truly an amazing system, we have had it installed at our showroom in Oslo for more than 10 years now functioning as our reference audio system - a vital tool in the development of the best possible AT screen. The clarity & detail in combination with endless power without ever producing distortion is simply unique.

For such an amazing system you would certainly place emphasis on all other components not reducing its potential, and the screen is of high importance as such. The UltraWeave has one of the lowest acoustical blockage levels available, with an average of only about 1,5dB, maxing out at about 2dB @ 20KHz. PVC weaves often maxes out at 4-5 dB, while micro perforated PVC might remove as much as 10dB or even more from the high frequencies. Although you can compensate using EQ, you can always hear the difference between a highly transparent fabric and one that is less so. Some even sound muffled, and micro details is easily lost if the blockage is too great. I do feel people in general might be placing too little attention to the different acoustical blockage levels, which is very important for systems able to produce nuance and detail like the Alcons is a very good example of.

So, as for video we will be using a 3,5m wide 2.40:1 native frame this year, and the UltraWeave v6 yet again. Sony is supplying a VPL-VW5000 4K laser projector, while Shawn Kelly will be bringing in a Panamorph DCI lens for added brightness and full usage of the 4K panel. Kris Deering @ www.deepdiveav.com will perform the calibration and he will also bring in a Radiance Pro to assure proper tone mapping performance. I really look forward to seeing what a proper calibration and the Radiance Pro is able to do with the HDR performance of the VW5000!

We hope to see ya!
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post #245 of 246 Old 09-05-2019, 12:18 AM
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Just received the new sample of the dream screen from Norway, and it was perfect! Night and day difference from the first sample. No sparkle! The first sample was yellower, and darker. The 2nd one was whiter, and slightly brighter. The first one was also a little thicker. Thank you for sending the sample. Now my question is, if we order this screen how do we know which one were getting? Do you guarantee the quality? I really love the new sample of this screen, but not first one with sparkles. I guess I want assurance I won't be stuck with the sparkly version I got first.
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post #246 of 246 Old 09-05-2019, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletoes2035 View Post
Just received the new sample of the dream screen from Norway, and it was perfect! Night and day difference from the first sample. No sparkle! The first sample was yellower, and darker. The 2nd one was whiter, and slightly brighter. The first one was also a little thicker. Thank you for sending the sample. Now my question is, if we order this screen how do we know which one were getting? Do you guarantee the quality? I really love the new sample of this screen, but not first one with sparkles. I guess I want assurance I won't be stuck with the sparkly version I got first.

Great! I can assure you no screen material from us will ever appear like the other sample you are describing. I guess it would have had to be damaged / polluted during shipment somehow. Regardless, please rest assured any fabric ordered from DreamScreen will always be top notch quality; custom inspected and packaged very extensively to avoid any damage.


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