My review of the DEA Pulsar Screen. WOW! - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 40 Light bleed from adjacent lights
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Pics 41 110 inch TV in Loft with all available lights on.
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post #153 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 12:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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In this loft I've had the Black Diamond, the Darkstar, the Seymour Matinee Black, the Cinegray 5D, and numerous painted screens. They were all quickly humbled and completely washed out when I placed all the lights on in the loft. But notice how the Dark Energy Screens Pulsar retains a very solid image under horrible amounts of ambient light in the same room. I rest my case.

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post #154 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 05:13 AM
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You sure that's 3000 lumens, not 300 ?
What I had for a light source was (4) 75 watt incandescent flood lights. I think they are about 800 lumens each. But they covered an area as large as the whole wall .
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post #155 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 07:03 AM
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For what it's worth it was around $650 for the DIY Flex material @ 100" (not the pulsar). It's absurd to think that numbers can't be distributed widely and freely, it's just information and it's shared with anyone who expresses an interest in purchasing. There's nothing stating secrecy in any of the emails, either. They also offer a full refund if you're not happy, which is a valuable thing to have!
This is good to know in keeping with the spirit of this forum to share useful information with fellow AV enthusiasts. It helps reduce concern about a cultish level of secrecy. That $650 for raw screen material fits with what I recall about finished screen pricing before it was deleted from the Jamestown site. As I recall finished screens in the 100" range were priced in the $1,000 range.

That would put pricing square in the middle between the lower cost ALR material from Carl's and Elite and the higher cost material from premium screen companies that can run into the thousands. If DEA performance exceeds the lower cost ALR screens and approaches that of the higher cost screens then it would fit well into the ALR screen universe. It only remains for more definitive proof of performance to be demonstrated. For example it's a shame that DEA wasn't included in projectorcentral.com's extensive ALR screen comparison.

Hopefully others will contribute data and opinions to this thread, whether pro, con or skeptical. Good discussions reflecting all points of view on various AV subjects are what first drew me to start reading this forum nearly 15 years ago and join 4 years ago to start participating in the discussions.
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post #156 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 09:13 AM
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Pics 41 110 inch TV in Loft with all available lights on.
This is really great to see - I have a similar situation in that my walls are very light.
Is there a danger going with a 1.4 screen if one has light walls? I was always thinking that I should go for a low gain screen, especially since my projector is fairly bright on the dimmest setting (Epson 3100). But part of me thinks that the high gain is needed with such a dark screen, for a contrast boost... in other words a very dark high gain screen leaves a different impression than a white high-gain screen? I have low ceilings (6'4") in my basement so it's a bit of a tight space, so light bleed on the walls is pretty bad. we keep things totally dark when watching a movie but with friends + things over I'd like to have low ambient light!
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post #157 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by guitarchitect View Post
This is really great to see - I have a similar situation in that my walls are very light.
Is there a danger going with a 1.4 screen if one has light walls? I was always thinking that I should go for a low gain screen, especially since my projector is fairly bright on the dimmest setting (Epson 3100). But part of me thinks that the high gain is needed with such a dark screen, for a contrast boost... in other words a very dark high gain screen leaves a different impression than a white high-gain screen? I have low ceilings (6'4") in my basement so it's a bit of a tight space, so light bleed on the walls is pretty bad. we keep things totally dark when watching a movie but with friends + things over I'd like to have low ambient light!
This is a tough question to answer since you do have a very bright projector. I had the same dilemma when debating between the Abyss and the Pulsar before placing my order with Dark Energy Screens. My walls are a taupe color and I was nervous that 1.4 gain screen might not be enough to retain strong black levels under moderate amounts of ambient light. However my pictures show that the 1.4 gain Pulsar has no problem with low to moderate amounts of ambient light in my loft.

With that being said the .9 gain material would most likely give you the strongest black levels without the possibility of shimmering from added gain. It depends on what size of screen you plan to go with. But if you want the strongest black levels possible I would advise the Dark Energy Screens Abyss. However if you want strong black levels plus a brighter screen then I would recommend the Pulsar. Both have very strong off axis light rejection. So you can't go wrong with either product. It just depends on how bright you like your screen in a low amount of ambient light or in a dark room.

I wanted to get as close as possible to TV brightness since I am a lover of lumens as my screen name denotes. I was willing to risk losing some black level and the possibility of shimmering to gain the benefits of a brighter screen. The wonderful thing about the Abyss and the Pulsar are they are both dark colored materials except one has gain added. So as I stated before I don't think you can go wrong with either product.

In conclusion, if you want the strongest black levels possible and if you are willing to give up some brightness, go with the Abyss. If you want a brighter screen with strong off axis ALR ability, and you're willing to potentially give up some black levels in exchange for added brightness, go with the Pulsar.

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post #158 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by LumensLover View Post
This is a tough question to answer since you do have a very bright projector. I had the same dilemma when debating between the Abyss and the Pulsar before placing my order with Dark Energy Screens. My walls are a taupe color and I was nervous that 1.4 gain screen might not be enough to retain strong black levels under moderate amounts of ambient light. However my pictures show that the 1.4 gain Pulsar has no problem with low to moderate amounts of ambient light in my loft.

With that being said the .9 gain material would most likely give you the strongest black levels without the possibility of shimmering from added gain. It depends on what size of screen you plan to go with. But if you want the strongest black levels possible I would advise the Dark Energy Screens Abyss. However if you want strong black levels plus a brighter screen then I would recommend the Pulsar. Both have very strong off axis light rejection. So you can't go wrong with either product. It just depends on how bright you like your screen in a low amount of ambient light or in a dark room.

I wanted to get as close as possible to TV brightness since I am a lover of lumens as my screen name denotes. I was willing to risk losing some black level and the possibility of shimmering to gain the benefits of a brighter screen. The wonderful thing about the Abyss and the Pulsar are they are both dark colored materials except one has gain added. So as I stated before I don't think you can go wrong with either product.

In conclusion, if you want the strongest black levels possible and if you are willing to give up some brightness, go with the Abyss. If you want a brighter screen with strong off axis ALR ability, and you're willing to potentially give up some black levels in exchange for added brightness, go with the Pulsar.
When you say strongest blacks possible, though, what are the chances that dark areas become muddy? That was my issue this weekend - I was watching The Ritual which has some very dark scenes (or scenes with dark areas and light areas), and the dark areas were a big muddy pile of black. Part of me thinks it was a netflix issue, because i'm pretty sure the algorithms they use to transmit films drastically reduce dynamic range (banding in scenes with blue skies gave that away), but part of me thinks that it was also being washed out from all of the ambient light in the room from the light part of the scene. I can imagine that a dark screen could affect it the opposite way, where it's tough to establish shadow detail because of the darkness of the material. I can imagine a 1.4 gain "boosting" any minimal light in those dark areas, but I'd definitely be worried about shimmer, too. I guess it's up to me to decide which I hate least!
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Definitely suggest the Pulsar for any JVC projector since they are not overly bright and the added gain from the Pulsar will definitely benefit them. JVC black levels plus the Pulsar would be immaculate.
man, after reading this thread, i wondering if i should send my Silver Ticket white back. I'm running a JVC 420. it looks fantastic at night. but, any natural light and its super washed out. i am starting to realize i don't want to be in a completely blacked out room all of the time.
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man, after reading this thread, i wondering if i should send my Silver Ticket white back. I'm running a JVC 420. it looks fantastic at night. but, any natural light and its super washed out. i am starting to realize i don't want to be in a completely blacked out room all of the time.
You mentioned the show “The Ritual” I haven’t watched that but I got curious and I looked on line for it and found the preview for it on Youtube.


Maybe you can get @LumensLover to play that demo and pause it on a couple of the dark night time images with his room lights on and take a couple screen shots so we can see how the screen holds up to night images with the lights on. 1:09 is a good one where we want to see the tree limbs thru the night darkness. 1:24, 1:44, 2:07, etc.

With your JVC and a white screen that should be killer on dark detail with all the lights out. But you want to see similar detail with the lights on with this screen. If he could show us I might be thinking a upgrade as well.

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When you say strongest blacks possible, though, what are the chances that dark areas become muddy? That was my issue this weekend - I was watching The Ritual which has some very dark scenes (or scenes with dark areas and light areas), and the dark areas were a big muddy pile of black. Part of me thinks it was a netflix issue, because i'm pretty sure the algorithms they use to transmit films drastically reduce dynamic range (banding in scenes with blue skies gave that away), but part of me thinks that it was also being washed out from all of the ambient light in the room from the light part of the scene. I can imagine that a dark screen could affect it the opposite way, where it's tough to establish shadow detail because of the darkness of the material. I can imagine a 1.4 gain "boosting" any minimal light in those dark areas, but I'd definitely be worried about shimmer, too. I guess it's up to me to decide which I hate least!
I know exactly what you are saying. Anytime you go with a below gain screen you run the risk of an overly dim image especially during dark scenes. When I first received my Black Diamond .8 gain screen I was enthralled.

Blacks were by far the strongest that I had seen at that time of any ALR screen. However the more content I watched over time, I noticed during dark scenes I could not make out any details. Especially outdoor night scenes. I was constantly messing with the gamma setting and shadow detail was nonexistent. Brighter projectors helped, but then that got me into low contrast, high lumens territory.

So in the end I had to sell my .8 gain Black Diamond. So that is the risk you take with a below gain alr screen however if you're going with a smaller size that might not be an issue. But if you're going closer to 120 inch diagonal that can definitely be an issue with the wrong projector.

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The difference between a 1.0 gain screen and a .8 gain screen is 20% loss in brightness. That is it. if you increase the brightness by 20% the image is going to be exactly the same.

But what is a .8 gain ALR screen? It can be a hundred different things. You can start with a 1.0 gain white screen and darken the pigment in it until it is a .2 gain dark gray and then you can add qualities to it to bring the gain back up by reducing the viewing cone. It is still that dark color but now all the light that would be projected around the room is focused back to where the viewers are at and it can become a “.8 gain” again. If you want to add enough angular gain back in it can even go higher than 1.0 gain.

It is robbing Peter to pay Paul. There are no mysteries about it.

The nice thing about angular gain is it works like a mirror. Take your flashlight and shine it at a mirror. The angle it hits the mirror it reflects off at the same angle. So if you shine it from the side (ambient light) it reflects off to the other side of the room and nothing back to the viewers location. There however is always advantages and disadvantages to everything and the trick with ALR is to minimize the bad stuff and get more good stuff. it can never be better than no ambient light in the first place.

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post #163 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 05:12 PM
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This review has been helpful, along w all the pictures. I contacted them before this was posted but, unfortunately, they weren't able to accommodate bc I'm looking for a 150" 16:9 screen. Their response was very helpful and comprehensive though, so I wouldn't question their integrity or passion for the product.

However, I can't stand when vendors don't want to be transparent in their pricing. Forums are probably the last remaining places where vendors play these "PM me for pricing" antics. It is detrimental to the experience and adds unnecessary friction, even for serious buyers. There's a reason why Amazon pushes so hard to make purchasing frictionless -- it's a better customer experience. I understand if it's for products that require MRP but, otherwise, what's the point?

Anyway, their 120" 16:9 Infinity SS screen quotes at $1,900 shipped.
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LumensLover I just want to say I think its great you took the time to add all of these pictures and feedback. I haven't set up my DE Abyss yet but am finally getting close. I read a ton of posts before taking investing this much money into a screen seriously. I appreciate all your insight as I was pretty close to just pulling the trigger on a basic 1.1 or 1.2 gain white screen. After saving so much on my projector (Epson 2150) by skipping 4K for now, I took the money I saved over going with a 4k projector and invested in the screen. My screen has been sitting in the box for well over a month but I am within a week or two of being able to set it up. I will be sure to start another thread on my thoughts (even though I am a projector noob) on the DE Abyss. Stephen was great to work with so far and recommended that screen for my setup even though he had these available. I do recommend calling him if anyone is serious about an Dark Energy ALR Screen.
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LumensLover I just want to say I think its great you took the time to add all of these pictures and feedback. I haven't set up my DE Abyss yet but am finally getting close. I read a ton of posts before taking investing this much money into a screen seriously. I appreciate all your insight as I was pretty close to just pulling the trigger on a basic 1.1 or 1.2 gain white screen. After saving so much on my projector (Epson 2150) by skipping 4K for now, I took the money I saved over going with a 4k projector and invested in the screen. My screen has been sitting in the box for well over a month but I am within a week or two of being able to set it up. I will be sure to start another thread on my thoughts (even though I am a projector noob) on the DE Abyss. Stephen was great to work with so far and recommended that screen for my setup even though he had these available. I do recommend calling him if anyone is serious about an Dark Energy ALR Screen.
You are very welcome sir. I believe you will be amazed by your Abyss screen once you have it set up. I try to to share my experiences in the hope of helping others who are attempting to enjoy this hobby. Be blessed and I hope you thoroughly enjoy your new setup.
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post #166 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This review has been helpful, along w all the pictures. I contacted them before this was posted but, unfortunately, they weren't able to accommodate bc I'm looking for a 150" 16:9 screen. Their response was very helpful and comprehensive though, so I wouldn't question their integrity or passion for the product.

However, I can't stand when vendors don't want to be transparent in their pricing. Forums are probably the last remaining places where vendors play these "PM me for pricing" antics. It is detrimental to the experience and adds unnecessary friction, even for serious buyers. There's a reason why Amazon pushes so hard to make purchasing frictionless -- it's a better customer experience. I understand if it's for products that require MRP but, otherwise, what's the point?

Anyway, their 120" 16:9 Infinity SS screen quotes at $1,900 shipped.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. However I've had to deal with it when I got into the world of home theater products. The people who own this website will not give you open pricing, you always have to call one of their agents for pricing. When I go to any of the online high end shops in my city they never have prices listed. They always show please call for pricing.

I do not like the middleman approach. However, This is fairly common in the niche market of home theater electronics. I'm also someone who likes reviews but I do not feel paralyzed if reviews are not readily available at the time of purchase. If I'm being fair there are no reviews with measurements for the Stewart halr material. Yet it sells for obscene pricing.

There are no professional reviews with measurements for the Elune Vision Aurora screen. There are no professional reviews with measurements for the Seymour AV 1.4. There are no professional reviews with measurements for the newest line of Draper's Tecvision screens. There are no available online pricing for high end alr materials from Draper, Stewart, Elite Prime Vision Etc.

I have a vast amount of experience purchasing higher end alr materials from various companies and none of them gave me pricing online.I had to call for pricing on all of them.

So I try to be fair because I had to jump through hoops to purchase high-end ALR materials from all of them. People are picking and choosing who they want to bicker about on this website however they do not have the experience of purchasing from as many high-end companies as I have.

And I had to go through the same process with all of them. I could go on but I'm sure you get my drift here. So I'm not going to be overly hard on one company when lack of professional reviews, lack of measurements and lack of online pricing are common occurrences in the home theater industry.

Problem here is that you have the same group of people here who theorize but never actually go through the purchasing process. So they do not know this. Try purchasing high end alr materials from Stewart, Elunevision, or Draper and see how many prices you find online. I know this because I've done it.

Please understand I am not trying to sound like an elitist. But I have to be fair. People are beating up one company while ignoring the same practices from other companies in the home theater industry. As I have stated before this issue comes from people who do not have any first-hand experience purchasing high end alr materials from various companies in the home theater industry. Anyone who has purchased high end alr materials from Draper, Elite Prime Vision, Elunevision, etc can vouch for the same purchasing process that I've stated here.

Other companies in the home theater market are charging $3,000 and up for alr screen materials, forcing you to call for a quote, and have not provided professional reviews with measurements included. Yet no one bats an eye at these other companies.
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post #167 of 453 Old 03-20-2018, 09:50 PM
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I hear you and understand what you're saying. It's OT, and I really don't want to derail this thread, your work and all the information you've provided. All I want to note is that DES is essentially direct to consumer. Many of the other (larger) companies in the space have retailers to distribute their products, so it would make (more) sense for those companies to be protective about pricing and let retailers determine how pricing is disclosed. Perhaps I/we are being unfair in calling out DES for it, but I think it's partly bc they are a D2C. IMO the parallel in the HT space would be ID speaker companies -- a majority of which disclose their pricing on their sites.

Again, this is totally OT and probably unfair to harp on in this thread, so I'll avoid further commentary on this point.
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I hear you and understand what you're saying. It's OT, and I really don't want to derail this thread, your work and all the information you've provided. All I want to note is that DES is essentially direct to consumer. Many of the other (larger) companies in the space have retailers to distribute their products, so it would make (more) sense for those companies to be protective about pricing and let retailers determine how pricing is disclosed. Perhaps I/we are being unfair in calling out DES for it, but I think it's partly bc they are a D2C. IMO the parallel in the HT space would be ID speaker companies -- a majority of which disclose their pricing on their sites.

Again, this is totally OT and probably unfair to harp on in this thread, so I'll avoid further commentary on this point.
No problem sir. I just wanted to make the aforementioned point above. It was not meant to be directed towards you in any way. At the end of the day I still agree with your initial comments. I like efficiency and I like streamlined pricing whenever possible.Just doesn't always work out this way with many companies.
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Stewart's flagship alr screen which sells for north of $4,000. Review from well-known source devoid of any actual scientific measurements.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-screen-review

Where is the fallout? Where are the posts stating that the aforementioned review is inconsequential and full of novice type comments from someone who's just stating how much they like the screen without posting any actual scientific measurements to backup the opinions listed in the review. We don't see any.

Because as I've stated a certain few here choose who they want to pick on while giving other companies a pass. So to other members here who may not know this, be careful who you choose to listen to on this website. Some of us try to be fair and we do have in-depth experience. While others do not have much in person experience and they will not attempt to be fair in any way when attacking certain companies while at the same time giving well known companies who charge exorbitant prices for alr screen materials a pass without any scrutiny, questions, or requests for measurements to to justify the premium price.

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On a lighter note, my family came up to visit me this weekend. I can say they were truly amazed with the performance of my set up. I made sure to turn all the lights on in the room while we watched various shows for an hour and we also watched the first 30 minutes of Blade Runner 2049 with with all lights on. My parents commented on how the image quality was not discernibly degraded while watching Blade Runner 2049 with all lights on in the room. I told them that I posted pictures of the screen with lights on and off online.

I also joked with them how some people still refuse to believe the performance of the screen. My my parents could not believe it and stated the performance of the screen with various lights on was beautiful. I laughed when my mother began recounting all of the previous screens I've had and she stated that this screen is even better than the Black Diamond and the Darkstar.

My dad joked that I've had over 20 screens in the last two condos and he stated this is the best one yet. He said "Mr. Upgrade should never sell this screen." I told him I plan for this to be my last screen purchase indefinitely.

It made me feel good for my family to revalidate what I've seen for the last few weeks. This is a high performance alr screen and it's the best I've ever owned.

And my loved ones who know my other materials readily agreed with me. We were all wowed with various images from Blade Runner 2049 and the Shape of Water last night under moderate amount of ambient light. I will take more screenshots tonight.

My parents also commented how well the screen retains a vivid, high quality image while watching various TV shows with ambient light present. My dad commented that it was like looking through a window. I also had to have a higher amount of ambient light in the room because my parents are older and they have to have at least three lights on in the room so they can take their medicine periodically and walk in and out the room to use the bathroom. I can say the screen performed like a champ the entire night under a high amount of ambient light and we thoroughly enjoyed it.
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I'm trying to rid myself of the upgrade bug, however there is one thing that concerns me with my current setup. The brightness levels as they are now are perfect with the Pulsar screen in my opinion. However any drop in brightness from now will annoy me. So I'm not sure if I should purchase another lamp for the Sony projector now, or purchase a brighter projector. My options would only be the Epson 3700 or the Epson 5040 at this time.

I actually like the Epson 3700 but the drop in contrast would put me back to DLP territory which I'm not sure how I would handle that long-term. The Epson 5040 is due to be replaced by the end of this year and it has numerous reliability issues. I really wish there was an affordable laser projector available now so I would not have to worry about the aforementioned issue coming soon.

Last edited by LumensLover; 03-21-2018 at 01:00 PM.
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post #172 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The following pictures are screenshots from Blade Runner 2049 under a high amount of ambient light.
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post #173 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 42 noticed colour pop, contrast, and shadow detail intact under a moderate amount of ambient light in the room.
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post #174 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 43 notice strong black level retention for city night time scene under moderate amount of ambient light.
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Last edited by LumensLover; 03-22-2018 at 01:40 AM.
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post #175 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 44 solid black level retention, contrast, and color intensity under moderate amount of light.
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Last edited by LumensLover; 03-22-2018 at 01:43 AM.
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post #176 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 01:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 45
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post #177 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 46 Dark Room Pics
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post #178 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Pics 47 night time dark scene with Gosling's face standing alone in the darkness outside.
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Last edited by LumensLover; 03-22-2018 at 01:35 AM.
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post #179 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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post #180 of 453 Old 03-22-2018, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Last edited by LumensLover; 03-22-2018 at 12:54 PM.
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