White or Grey.... which is best? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 9Likes
  • 1 Post By Craig Peer
  • 1 Post By Dave in Green
  • 1 Post By bud16415
  • 1 Post By Dave in Green
  • 1 Post By Craig Peer
  • 1 Post By Dave in Green
  • 1 Post By Craig Peer
  • 1 Post By bud16415
  • 1 Post By bud16415
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 382
White or Grey.... which is best?

Going next week to see whether a fixed frame would be a viable option for me as the guy's screen I'm going to see is a fixed frame curved version which he has mounted to an aluminium stand on wheels so with marker points on the carpet he can wheel it out of the way and return it to the same point everytime.

Anyway sorry for getting side tracked on my original question but which is best if you have a completely light controlled room, is it still white or will the grey still give you better contrasts.
Luminated67 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 08:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
If your room is well controlled both by having the walls+ceiling dark-colored to tame reflections and by keeping sun/lights from hitting the screen, then a white screen is typically best.

If your lighting is controlled BUT the room is light-colored, then a grey screen can help against the light-colored surfaces' tendency to light-up whenever there's bits of bright content on-screen which can otherwise reflect back onto the screen and wash it out somewhat. A white/light-colored room can benefit from a grey screen even if it's otherwise kept dark/lights-out during viewing..or you might consider redecorating a light-colored room using darker wall/ceiling colors that you like the look of while sticking toward a white screen.

If the room is light-colored and a grey screen or treating the room are both options for you;
Often paint rolling supplies and a few gallons of flat, dark-colored paint cost less than the extra expense of a grey screen VS a white screen, and many grey screens can show various artifacts (some vignetting, grain/texture/sparkling, dimming if you're seated more toward the sides) while a dark-colored room won't hurt the image at all.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If your room is well controlled both by having the walls+ceiling dark-colored to tame reflections and by keeping sun/lights from hitting the screen, then a white screen is typically best.

If your lighting is controlled BUT the room is light-colored, then a grey screen can help against the light-colored surfaces' tendency to light-up whenever there's bits of bright content on-screen which can otherwise reflect back onto the screen and wash it out somewhat. A white/light-colored room can benefit from a grey screen even if it's otherwise kept dark/lights-out during viewing..or you might consider redecorating a light-colored room using darker wall/ceiling colors that you like the look of while sticking toward a white screen.

If the room is light-colored and a grey screen or treating the room are both options for you;
Often paint rolling supplies and a few gallons of flat, dark-colored paint cost less than the extra expense of a grey screen VS a white screen, and many grey screens can show various artifacts (some vignetting, grain/texture/sparkling, dimming if you're seated more toward the sides) while a dark-colored room won't hurt the image at all.
The room has black blinds on the two windows and the entire room is painted a dark matt grey. I didn't think about the off-centre viewing which is the case in my room so maybe better to stick with white.

Thanks
Luminated67 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 09:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,351
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6986 Post(s)
Liked: 8267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
The room has black blinds on the two windows and the entire room is painted a dark matt grey. I didn't think about the off-centre viewing which is the case in my room so maybe better to stick with white.

Thanks
I think white would be much better in your case. I switched from grey screens to white some years ago, and the picture is brighter and better all around !
Luminated67 likes this.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #5 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 01:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
I have always had gray screens in lightproof rooms and very dark walls and ceilings. My current screen is .5 gain simple neutral gray. I have never felt a lack of brightness or any loss in picture quality. I have always maintained a projector brightness level to meet or exceed any attenuation of brightness the screen would cause.

It is imposable to compare simple white and simple gray side by side because the brightness can’t be calibrated for both at once. I can show where the gray looks dull and awful compared to the white looking perfect and I can also show the gray looking perfect and the white over bright and lacking CR completely washed out.

The real test is to show each one at a time properly calibrated in a dark light absorbing room they will both look exactly the same. Then showing them in a non perfect room or a room with lighting added back in. Both wont look as good as the perfect room but the gray will maintain more of the CR than the white.

Gray works it is just a matter if you want to pay the price in extra lumens to get the benefits. The down side to gray is most projectors as they get brighter do a poorer job of producing CR so the improvement gained on the screen may be lost thru the projector.

My screen is only 110” 16:9 or 36 sq ft. a light level on the screen of 15FL requires only 540 lumens and with .5 gain double that 1080 lumens. My projector has little trouble putting out an accurate output around the 1000 lumen figure. So in my case I feel the good outweighs the bad. Only because I sometimes want to up the projector lumens even more and then add quite a bit of task lighting into the room for things like sports viewing with the guys.

I have one more trick in the bag. When I want to make a brighter image I zoom down to 90” screen size and now the same lumens are on only 24 sq ft compared to 36 sq ft and is close to the correct CIH size for TV. The guys are impressed with a bright 90” image with lights on in the room. My FL jump to 23 with the smaller image size and I select the next brightest mode of projection and easily get above 30FL off the gray screen. It looks a lot like a 90” flat panel display in that setting. This same mode of viewing we have found is great when you have little kids watching Moana. No one wants to have a bunch of preschoolers in a pitch black room, at least I don’t. We use an adaptation of this mode every evening watching our favorite TV shows with lights on as well. Now when we watched Dunkirk the screen immersion went full on IMAX and the room went pitch black.

If I had a full time lights out room with treated walls and ceiling I wouldn’t do any of this I would just have a 1.0 gain white screen and keep it simple.

On edit:
One last thought I forgot to mention is 3D. If you are a big fan of 3D you want max immersion and you need close to double brightness. With my setup in my wish list would be a white roll down screen just for 3D. We don’t watch enough 3D to make that worth it to us so we watch it in the bright room mode and screen size with the lights out. Where it should be IMAX like it is more Flat like. It is still immersive enough for our tastes for 3D.

Bud

Last edited by bud16415; 03-22-2018 at 01:47 PM.
bud16415 is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 01:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,354
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3787 Post(s)
Liked: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I think white would be much better in your case. I switched from grey screens to white some years ago, and the picture is brighter and better all around !
Craig, I know you already know this. But just to be sure that your CliffsNotes description doesn't create confusion for those with less experience in front projection, I think it would be good to clarify that a neutral matte white screen only has a brighter and better all around image than a neutral matte grey screen if projector lumens are kept the same for both screens. If projector lumens are increased to compensate for any negative gain in the neutral matte grey screen the image will be just as bright and of the same quality as with the neutral matte white screen.
bud16415 likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:06 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,351
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6986 Post(s)
Liked: 8267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Craig, I know you already know this. But just to be sure that your CliffsNotes description doesn't create confusion for those with less experience in front projection, I think it would be good to clarify that a neutral matte white screen only has a brighter and better all around image than a neutral matte grey screen if projector lumens are kept the same for both screens. If projector lumens are increased to compensate for any negative gain in the neutral matte grey screen the image will be just as bright and of the same quality as with the neutral matte white screen.
Of course the devil is always in the details. When someone says " grey screen " - that can be a Firehawk, Slate, High Contrast Cinema Vision - and then there is the problem of misleading gain specs. My Cima Neve at " 1.1 " gain certainly looks brighter than my old Firehawk G3 screen " 1.25 " gain screen. As far as matte white or matte grey - Da Lite doesn't even consider those to be " High Definition " anymore.

https://www.milestone.com/products/d...on/matte_white

https://www.milestone.com/products/d...st_matte_white

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #8 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,354
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3787 Post(s)
Liked: 3001
@Craig Peer , right, the fact that white is brighter than grey is pretty obvious to anyone. The concept of matte white screens vs. matte grey screens with varying projector lumens is still pretty basic. When you get beyond matte (lambertian) screens and get into directional gain it starts getting more complicated.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Of course the devil is always in the details. When someone says " grey screen " - that can be a Firehawk, Slate, High Contrast Cinema Vision - and then there is the problem of misleading gain specs. My Cima Neve at " 1.1 " gain certainly looks brighter than my old Firehawk G3 screen " 1.25 " gain screen. As far as matte white or matte grey - Da Lite doesn't even consider those to be " High Definition " anymore.

https://www.milestone.com/products/d...on/matte_white

https://www.milestone.com/products/d...st_matte_white
If there is any reason they don’t think they make a HD spec it is because of the texture not the color.

The texture of a matte white or gray screen can be microscopically flat and still possess a Lambertian reflectance.


I do agree gray screens are so many different things and they fall into the class of ALR screens. They of course can be compared to white but then again are we talking about a Lambertian white or a 2.5 gain white.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,354
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3787 Post(s)
Liked: 3001
As long as Stewart Filmscreen considers matte (lambertian) white screens to be high definition it doesn't much matter to me how other companies choose to categorize their matte white screens.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Thanks for everyone’s input it has been most enlighting. A question about gain, correct me if I’m misunderstanding this but I always thought 1.0 gain meant the light that was projected on to it shone the same amount back, 1.5 gain meant half as much again, 0.5 gain give only half what was fired at it?

As it’s a Sony 45es I have now most reviews are suggesting its best results are produced in ECO mode which luckily gives the longest bulb live so maybe with this in mind white with a 1.0gain or little higher would be preferable, especially as Sony bulbs aren’t the cheapest.

Epson EH-TW9400 - QualGear Fixed Frame 100” - Sony x700 BRP & Panasonic 420 BRP - Sony 1080 AVR - IPL Acoustics M1TLs & IPL Acoustics AVC Pro Centre, Four KEF surrounds & 2 Sub boxes (10” Sub + 10” Passive Radiator)
Luminated67 is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
As long as Stewart Filmscreen considers matte (lambertian) white screens to be high definition it doesn't much matter to me how other companies choose to categorize their matte white screens.
Dave I would love nothing more than to own a Stewart Filmscreen but alas I doubt I will ever have that privilege because I’m too much of a tight arse. lol

No I will have to set my sights a lot lower and hopefully pick up something which gives me real bang for my buck. I’m currently struggling with the idea for either going with a fixed frame unit that I lift off the wall or get it mounted to a movable frame or just stick with an electric screen but get one that’s got tab tension, the fixed gives me a huge range of brands to pick from where as the electric tab tension is very limited in my price bracelet.

I’ve it now narrowed to three brands

Elite Saker tab tension, Hivilux tab tension both of which are similarly priced and the Grandview Cyber Series which is really pushing me out of my comfort zone. I think the Elite is well known here but I’ve read very little of the other two.
Luminated67 is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminated67 View Post
Thanks for everyone’s input it has been most enlighting. A question about gain, correct me if I’m misunderstanding this but I always thought 1.0 gain meant the light that was projected on to it shone the same amount back, 1.5 gain meant half as much again, 0.5 gain give only half what was fired at it?

As it’s a Sony 45es I have now most reviews are suggesting its best results are produced in ECO mode which luckily gives the longest bulb live so maybe with this in mind white with a 1.0gain or little higher would be preferable, especially as Sony bulbs aren’t the cheapest.
1.0 gain is a benchmark like 98.6 degrees is the temperature of humans. A 1.0 gain surface is said to reflect equal brightness 180 degrees in all directions. So when you light up a 1.0 gain white surface and stand right in front of it with a light meter or if you stand 45 degrees off to the side or even 89 degrees off to the side the brightness will be uniform. This is often called unity gain also.

Because there is only so much light coming out of a projector it would be imposable to make the image brighter at all angles, so when gain goes up it goes up for the person sitting straight in front at zero degrees. That light is taken from the sides making the guy at 45 degrees see a dimmer image.

When gain goes down on a simple gray screen the screen is a microscopic mix of white and black just like how a printer prints a gray piece of paper it leaves some of the white and puts some black down making gray. White is white because it reflects all light wavelengths the same black is black because it absorbs all wavelengths the same. When you combine the two the screen just reflects part of the light that hits the white and absorbs the part that hits the black. Think of a pool table covered in white and black balls equally spaced. It would look like a checkerboard. Now picture a football field covered in pool balls and you look at it from a airplane. You wont see the balls but the field will look gray.

That’s why a gray screen takes more light to keep the image the same brightness.

So the question becomes what good is it? Say the screen is .5 gray and sucking up half the projector light but that is ok because we doubled it. We then turn on a light to eat a pizza and that light some of it goes to the screen. it will dilute the projector light by blending the white in and the image will wash out. With our gray screen half that bad light wont come back it will go into the black part of the screen.

That’s the short answer.
Luminated67 likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 02:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,354
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3787 Post(s)
Liked: 3001
@Luminated67 , the Stewart Filmscreen comment definitely wasn't directed at you because I know you're on a budget. A less expensive 1.0 gain white screen would be just fine for your use. White screens advertised with 1.1 gain typically measure closer to 1.0. I wouldn't go above 1.1 gain in a white screen unless you were getting a Stewart as less expensive white screens with claimed gain of >1.1 tend to have sheen, sparkles and other artifacts.

I would recommend against trying to use a fixed screen that you would put up and take down for each viewing. They are not designed for that type of use and the continued flexing would likely lead to issues. Hopefully someone with experience with the tab tension screens you mention can give you some advice.
Luminated67 likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,351
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6986 Post(s)
Liked: 8267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
As long as Stewart Filmscreen considers matte (lambertian) white screens to be high definition it doesn't much matter to me how other companies choose to categorize their matte white screens.
I don't consider the StudioTec 100 to be a " matte " screen as is used by other screen companies. I prefer " unity gain ". That's the problem with home theater - lots of terms bandied about - like XPR chips being " 4K ".
Lygren likes this.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #16 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 03:24 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,354
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3787 Post(s)
Liked: 3001
@Craig Peer , individual screen company use of the term matte aside, the technical definition of Lambertian reflectance clearly states its relation to matte as, for example, summarized in the first sentence of the Wikipedia entry on Lambertian reflectance:

Quote:
Lambertian reflectance is the property that defines an ideal "matte" or diffusely reflecting surface.
I supposed you could say that StudioTec 100 is "ideal matte" and that other companies' screens are "non-ideal matte." Most definitions of "unity gain" are related to audio equipment, so that could cause confusion for some even though it's technically correct for describing an ideal matte white screen surface.

We really need for @Don Stewart to join the conversation and tell us where we're all wrong.
Craig Peer likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 03:39 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,351
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6986 Post(s)
Liked: 8267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@Craig Peer , individual screen company use of the term matte aside, the technical definition of Lambertian reflectance clearly states its relation to matte as, for example, summarized in the first sentence of the Wikipedia entry on Lambertian reflectance:



I supposed you could say that StudioTec 100 is "ideal matte" and that other companies' screens are "non-ideal matte." Most definitions of "unity gain" are related to audio equipment, so that could cause confusion for some even though it's technically correct for describing an ideal matte white screen surface.

We really need for @Don Stewart to join the conversation and tell us where we're all wrong.
That's the problem right there ! Marketing terms. Actually we are both right - " Matte-white, unity gain reference screen " . At least regarding ST100 !

http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/scr...k%E2%84%A2-100

Like all things these days, always check the details. Just because they call it " fine wine " and charge $50.00 doesn't mean it's not plonk !
Dave in Green likes this.

[email protected] JVC RS4500, Lumagen Radiance Pro, Panamorph Paladin DCR lens, Stewart Luxus Model A ElectriScreens - 128" diagonal 2.35:1 ST130 & 122" diagonal 16:9 Cima Neve, Denon X8500, Parasound A 52+ amp, Martin Logan Motion series 9.4 speakers, four SVS subs, Panasonic UB820, Oppo 203, PFP M1500 UPS
Craig Peer is online now  
post #18 of 26 Old 03-22-2018, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Luminated67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,070
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
We really need for @Don Stewart to join the conversation and tell us where we're all wrong.
If Don Stewart is Stewart Filmscreens then what I need is for him to view me as a charity case and be overtly generous with his discount.
Luminated67 is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 07-12-2019, 10:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
ckronengold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston Strong / Jersey Strong
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Bumping this old thread b/c I'm looking to make a quick decision. I have a calibrator coming on Thursday, and if I'm going to make a switch on screens, I should do it before he comes.

Currently have a 110" 16:9 grey screen from Silver Ticket. I have been very happy with it, paired with an Epson 5030. But I recently upgraded to the 5050, which has HDR, and I'm struggling with the idea that I'm somehow missing some of the HDR highlights by using the grey screen.

My basement can be 99.9% blacked out, minus some light that sneaks in through the slatted doorway to the utility room (see image "Room2"), but thats only during the day anyway. Otherwise, all windows have been plugged with dark closed-cell foam inserts. Usage is primarily for movies, but gets a decent amount of usage for sports and kids movies/programs.

Projector is mounted 14'6" from the screen, and seating is about 11-11.5' from the screen.

I'm considering switching to the Silver Ticket white screen, 2.35:1 115", which nets me about 10" wider screen.

Due to some shipping errors, I have an additional grey screen for my frame, so I have no concerns about selling it.

I just painted the ceiling (Sherwin Williams Anchors Aweigh), and don't have any plans to paint any additional walls right now.

Here's some images (yeah, I am well aware that cell phone images don't mean shinola) to help give some perspective. Would you / should I pull the trigger and switch to a white screen? Would there be a noticeable difference?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	blueceiling.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	732.7 KB
ID:	2590020   Click image for larger version

Name:	room.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	713.3 KB
ID:	2590022   Click image for larger version

Name:	room2.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	711.6 KB
ID:	2590024   Click image for larger version

Name:	blueceiling2.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	1.55 MB
ID:	2590026   Click image for larger version

Name:	earth.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	1.21 MB
ID:	2590028  

Click image for larger version

Name:	leopard.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	736.5 KB
ID:	2590030   Click image for larger version

Name:	aqua1.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	977.6 KB
ID:	2590032   Click image for larger version

Name:	aqua2.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	744.0 KB
ID:	2590034  

Video: Epson 5050 / nVidia Shield / OPPO-103
Audio: Marantz 7010 / MartinLogan Motion 40 (LR), 50XT (center), M2 (surrounds)
Streaming: nVidia Shield / Roku Ultra / Chromecast Ultra
NAS: Synology 1515+ Server: Ubuntu 18.04, i7-8700 CPU
HTPC: Win10 Pro 64-bit, i5 750 Radeon HD 5850
ckronengold is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 07-12-2019, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post
Bumping this old thread b/c I'm looking to make a quick decision. I have a calibrator coming on Thursday, and if I'm going to make a switch on screens, I should do it before he comes.

Currently have a 110" 16:9 grey screen from Silver Ticket. I have been very happy with it, paired with an Epson 5030. But I recently upgraded to the 5050, which has HDR, and I'm struggling with the idea that I'm somehow missing some of the HDR highlights by using the grey screen.

My basement can be 99.9% blacked out, minus some light that sneaks in through the slatted doorway to the utility room (see image "Room2"), but thats only during the day anyway. Otherwise, all windows have been plugged with dark closed-cell foam inserts. Usage is primarily for movies, but gets a decent amount of usage for sports and kids movies/programs.

Projector is mounted 14'6" from the screen, and seating is about 11-11.5' from the screen.

I'm considering switching to the Silver Ticket white screen, 2.35:1 115", which nets me about 10" wider screen.

Due to some shipping errors, I have an additional grey screen for my frame, so I have no concerns about selling it.

I just painted the ceiling (Sherwin Williams Anchors Aweigh), and don't have any plans to paint any additional walls right now.

Here's some images (yeah, I am well aware that cell phone images don't mean shinola) to help give some perspective. Would you / should I pull the trigger and switch to a white screen? Would there be a noticeable difference?
I’m assuming you have the screen they call high contrast. If I remember correct that screen is around 1.1 gain even though it is gray. I also assume your seating is mostly centrally located so in that case you will get better highlights and overall brightness at 1.1 gray than a 1.0 white. Albeit very slight.

There are lots of reasons that would be good about a scope screen or even an IMAX sized screen with your seating distance you are really hurting scope and really, really hurting IMAX.

With your side walls so far away from the screen edges I don’t think you will see a huge change between white and the high contrast gray. Your ceiling is the big factor and you have that nice and dark.

I would go larger and go scope or better yet go CIH+IMAX. Keep in mind bigger is going to reduce light from what you have now no matter what screen material.
ckronengold likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 07-12-2019, 12:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
ckronengold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston Strong / Jersey Strong
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 111
I don't have the high contrast. Just the regular grey. It's reported to be 1.0, and regular white is cited at 1.1

Unfortunately I can't do much about the seating. Got those poles in the way, so the sofa can't go any farther back. Plus then I'd be sitting under the HVAC soffit.

So sitting tight may be my best option. I was considering the 125" scope screen, which is only 4" shorter than my current screen, but gains 22" on width. Really a was thinking 140" but the wife thought differently about it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Video: Epson 5050 / nVidia Shield / OPPO-103
Audio: Marantz 7010 / MartinLogan Motion 40 (LR), 50XT (center), M2 (surrounds)
Streaming: nVidia Shield / Roku Ultra / Chromecast Ultra
NAS: Synology 1515+ Server: Ubuntu 18.04, i7-8700 CPU
HTPC: Win10 Pro 64-bit, i5 750 Radeon HD 5850
ckronengold is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 07-12-2019, 03:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post
I don't have the high contrast. Just the regular grey. It's reported to be 1.0, and regular white is cited at 1.1

Unfortunately I can't do much about the seating. Got those poles in the way, so the sofa can't go any farther back. Plus then I'd be sitting under the HVAC soffit.

So sitting tight may be my best option. I was considering the 125" scope screen, which is only 4" shorter than my current screen, but gains 22" on width. Really a was thinking 140" but the wife thought differently about it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I think the Epson 5050 has all the bells and whistles to do variable image sizing. I wouldn’t not do some form of CIH or CIA or CIH+IMAX or the method I like I named PIA you can find a thread about it in the CIH forum if interested.

Read up on the IMAX Enhanced movement in home media also.

As to gray or white in your room 1.0/1.1 or 1.1/1.0 gains isn’t going to effect brightness or HDR a heck of a lot IMO.

Everyone is so focused on HDR so much when I feel the new media and resolution people should be thinking visual immersion. That’s just my opinion and I could be wrong.
ckronengold likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 07-12-2019, 04:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
ckronengold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston Strong / Jersey Strong
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 111
I'm with ya. I have been flirting with going much larger, but can't go as big as I'd like for the full immersive experience.

My brain tells me that I'm in good shape right now, but there's that little element of doubt. We have a stupid hobby, always trying to squeeze out every last bit of performance. Never really satisfied and able to sit back and say "I'm good here" without wondering if you could do a bit better if you just changed one thing.

Having the calibrator coming just added a needless bit of "sh8t or get off the pot" decision making around something I've been considering for months.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Video: Epson 5050 / nVidia Shield / OPPO-103
Audio: Marantz 7010 / MartinLogan Motion 40 (LR), 50XT (center), M2 (surrounds)
Streaming: nVidia Shield / Roku Ultra / Chromecast Ultra
NAS: Synology 1515+ Server: Ubuntu 18.04, i7-8700 CPU
HTPC: Win10 Pro 64-bit, i5 750 Radeon HD 5850
ckronengold is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 07-13-2019, 04:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post
I'm with ya. I have been flirting with going much larger, but can't go as big as I'd like for the full immersive experience.

My brain tells me that I'm in good shape right now, but there's that little element of doubt. We have a stupid hobby, always trying to squeeze out every last bit of performance. Never really satisfied and able to sit back and say "I'm good here" without wondering if you could do a bit better if you just changed one thing.

Having the calibrator coming just added a needless bit of "sh8t or get off the pot" decision making around something I've been considering for months.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I have always been respectful of people that wanted to have their systems professionally calibrated even though I have never had mine done and doubt I ever will. I always read reviews and the pro reviewer will talk about out of the box performance or that some projectors come pre calibrated for an extra amount over a similar model that’s not. The last two projectors I have bought for my old eyes looked perfect to me out of the box and of course I tweak brightness and fiddle around a little but really movies throw me off 100 times more than all my tweaking. I would rather add some black paint to the room and improve PQ that way. But it surely can’t hurt having it dialed in by a pro.

In a way I get a lot of satisfaction knowing I’m doing what I’m doing on a shoestring budget. A 500 dollar 1080 projector an AVR that was around before HDMI (workaround audio switching) and 30 year old Carver amp for the subs, still sticking with BD as my best format and still popping in a DVD here and there. Streaming thru the BD player and doing HTPC from a laptop over VGA. DIY speakers and a DIY stealth screen wall. Not to mention doing a CIH+IMAX presentation by moving the ceiling mounted projector on a track. Maybe 2k total into my room.

It’s a hobby like model airplanes or trains. Each of us can take it as far as we like and enjoy what we have at the time to the greatest extent we can.

In terms of immersion once I had the ability to go ridiculously large or small it was great because I then looked at it as the only important part was what felt best at the moment. Not having limits is great as you stop thinking about it.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 07-16-2019, 09:33 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I'm a total newbie here but everything I've gathered from hours of research keeps pointing me back to white is better, unless there's going to be any kind of light on the screen, in which grey becomes an options based on the volume of light saturation. Just my 2 cents.
TJSSRT is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 07-17-2019, 08:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,824
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2128 Post(s)
Liked: 1074
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJSSRT View Post
I'm a total newbie here but everything I've gathered from hours of research keeps pointing me back to white is better, unless there's going to be any kind of light on the screen, in which grey becomes an options based on the volume of light saturation. Just my 2 cents.
IMO white is best with a 1.0-1.3 gain in a perfect room.

Keep in mind there are two ways light can effect CR in the image. The first is light leaking into a room, windows etc. or lights turned on in the room. The second is projector light coming off the screen hitting the walls, ceiling or anything in the room and reflecting back to the screen. You can have a room sealed up so tight with the lights off you can’t see a thing and you turn the projector on and it lights up like daytime. All that projector light has to be dealt with also for a white screen to work it’s best.

If that isn’t the case then gray screens in one form or another are called on to help. There are two types ALR gray and simple neutral density gray. They work in a different way and that is what leads to a lot of confusion.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Screens

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off