Highgain Vaporware: Microlite + CrystalScreens ...other options? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 10 Old 07-03-2018, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Highgain Vaporware: Microlite + CrystalScreens ...other options?

Crystal screens
website seems to be gone.
Last info I can find are youtube videos from CEDIA 2017
Claimed 2.5 and 3.0 gain screens
Last AVS forum tread post 5-9-2018
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...ia-2017-a.html
@Scott Wilkinson was really impressed by what he saw and even interviewed their team on his old "home theater geeks" podcast. Any word on what happened to them?

Microlite
website unchanged in over a year, maybe two
Claimed 2.4 gain screen
Last AVS forum thread post 1-17-2017
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...screen-39.html

@Mike Garrett was supped to be a reseller of Microlite, any word on what happened?

Still no good high gain options and DYI glass beaded screen isn't happening ( @coderguy threw in the towel).
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...attempt-2.html

Maybe Seymour AV will come up with something? I met @chriscmore at AXPONA 2018 in Chicago (I was the "manatee" guy with the walker) and he said they've been experimenting with higher gains but said uniformity and throw ratios are problems. He seemed very nice and was extremely patient with with me, so maybe they will keep at it?

Dark Energy screens newer Pulsar and StarDust materials look interesting ( @LumensLover approved!!) but aren't big enough (want 170"-180") and these higher gain materials need something like 1.8-2.0 throw ratio.

Really leaning toward Elunevision Aurora but it really isn't even a true high gain screen (1.3) but at least they only ask for 1.2x throw.
https://elunevision.com/materials/au...ght-rejection/

Any other decent material options seem to be in this same disappointing 1.2 - 1.4 gain range. I should have bough a 150" dalite high power way back when....

Anything on the horizon or anything I'm missing? The Draper techvision early reviews / impressions were not positive.
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post #2 of 10 Old 07-08-2018, 02:00 PM
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Our next screen material is a lower gain Matinee, to increase uniformity, widen viewing angles and decrease the recommended minimum projector throw distance. It'll be about 0.9 and in much larger sizes. Having wider angles is beneficial in larger screens, as all of the effects from angles become more dramatic the larger the size.

Gain is a mostly a function of the base substrate color (white to black), and the angle of the reflective components. The reflective component is simply a redirection of light, so you can choose how much you want it refocused versus diffused.
Therefore, when you want a higher gain screen with wide angle performance then you'll have to go with a lighter substrate, which reduces its ALR capabilities. There are differing technologies that affect the efficiency, compromises and costs. It sounds like a white screen with some reflective layers would get you the gain you're looking for (2-2.5) and wider angles but no materials like that are coming to mind.

I know it's contrary to what you're targeting, but I still contend that lower gain screens are the future. As projectors naturally get brighter, lower gains bring better ALR, room splash contamination resistance, uniformity and installation flexibility with fewer tradeoffs.

Cheers,
Chris
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post #3 of 10 Old 07-09-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
... I still contend that lower gain screens are the future. As projectors naturally get brighter, lower gains bring better ALR, room splash contamination resistance, uniformity and installation flexibility with fewer tradeoffs. ...
This has seemed a logical progression to me for some time now so it's good to know that projection screen companies are thinking the same way. I just have to mention @bud16415 here to make sure he doesn't miss this.
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post #4 of 10 Old 07-11-2018, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
I know it's contrary to what you're targeting, but I still contend that lower gain screens are the future. As projectors naturally get brighter, lower gains bring better ALR, room splash contamination resistance, uniformity and installation flexibility with fewer tradeoffs.

Cheers,
Chris
Chris, thanks for the informative reply.

You may be right about the future being lower gain, especially for people in the 120-140" screen range. But just due to the fact that there are no good high gain options that come to mind presents an obvious unfilled niche. A niche that anyone who's owned or experienced the dalite high power screen can attest to, as evidenced by countless threads about "dalite high power alternatives" always ending in disappointment.

I would like to get my screen / media room going this winter / spring and I don't mind taking some trips back and forth from Ames IA to get it right. If you want to try a lighter base on your new wider angle reflective layer Matinee screen...let me know. Its basically the only way a "normal guy" like me can get to 170" - 180" 16x9. (Normal guy = can't justify spending more on his projector than his car).

If anyone else knows of any other (upcoming) high gain material suggestions, please let us know.

Thanks!
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post #5 of 10 Old 07-13-2018, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maglito View Post
Chris, thanks for the informative reply.

You may be right about the future being lower gain, especially for people in the 120-140" screen range. But just due to the fact that there are no good high gain options that come to mind presents an obvious unfilled niche. A niche that anyone who's owned or experienced the dalite high power screen can attest to, as evidenced by countless threads about "dalite high power alternatives" always ending in disappointment.

I would like to get my screen / media room going this winter / spring and I don't mind taking some trips back and forth from Ames IA to get it right. If you want to try a lighter base on your new wider angle reflective layer Matinee screen...let me know. Its basically the only way a "normal guy" like me can get to 170" - 180" 16x9. (Normal guy = can't justify spending more on his projector than his car).

If anyone else knows of any other (upcoming) high gain material suggestions, please let us know.

Thanks!
180" diagonal is a big screen. Especially considering HDR. Keep a look out to see what new, hopefully brighter projectors might come out at Cedia. It's only 7 1/2 weeks from now. Maybe we will start seeing brighter and less expensive laser projectors. And visit Chris - he makes great screens !
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post #6 of 10 Old 07-19-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post
......I know it's contrary to what you're targeting, but I still contend that lower gain screens are the future. As projectors naturally get brighter, lower gains bring better ALR, room splash contamination resistance, uniformity and installation flexibility with fewer tradeoffs.

Cheers,
Chris
I won’t dispute your predictions regarding the future of screens, but I will disagree with your reasoning. Your list of benefits of lower gain only apply to angular reflective screens. Among your very valuable goals: ALR, and room splash contamination resistance are many orders of magnitude superior with retro-reflective screens. Uniformity (for any individual viewer) is also perfect (as is also the case with low gain angular reflective). Installation flexibility can be an advantage. Retro-reflectives don’t do well with a projector mounted inches from a ceiling, off center, or with an extremely short throw (less than one image height).

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post #7 of 10 Old 07-20-2018, 05:37 AM
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I have found the best alternative to the Retro and/or sharply angular Reflective Screen materials is the use of specifically made painted coating that can achieve a minimum of 1.4 gain while minimizing both of the aforementioned caveats. And what I refer to is not a "maybe or might be", but solutions that have been well proven out to and beyond 200" diagonal using PJs with Lumen output well under 1000 lm.


With the latest PJs sporting mega contrast and 1800> Lumen, it's extremely easy to accomplish


The White Base material would be a flexible, smooth surface stretched across a self-built frame (or pre-made Aluminum sections)
If your "hands on" skills are up to the small challenge, the results being exactly what you want / need coming in at <1/5 the cost would seem worth the effort.

All of that is so firmly entrenched in DIY you should, if interested at all, go here and make a specific inquiry.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #8 of 10 Old 07-20-2018, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip View Post
ALR, and room splash contamination resistance are many orders of magnitude superior with retro-reflective screens.
Pip
My old Dalite highpower was retro-reflective (and amazing), but I'm not aware of any other popular screens with that type of reflectivity (certainly nothing available now with a high gain).

Are you tying to nudge @chriscmore into investigating retro-reflective screen materials?
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-20-2018, 10:32 AM
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You should look at retro screens instead of angular, since wide viewing angles otherwise cause disadvantages. My experiments with retro tend to leave a dirty textured look to them, like a window that needs cleaning. And I have problems with the color performance of the high power product (originally designed for business use), but I understand that if brightness is the primary goal they can deliver. Typically more uniformly (for limited seating), too, as Pip pointed out.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #10 of 10 Old 07-21-2018, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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My experiments with retro tend to leave a dirty textured look to them, like a window that needs cleaning.
Chris, on white scenes/screens that, indeed, was a problem with the high power (and my biggest gripe too). I could only notice it on large white fields / screens but it was distracting at those times. Some claim the effect was minimized by washing the screen, but I never tried.

Last edited by maglito; 07-22-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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