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post #1 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Unhappy Best ALR Screen for my environment

Hi all,
After reading a lot of post about alr screens, I haven't a clear idea of which one is the best for me.

first of all, in attachment you can see a couple of shots of my environment.

At the moment I use a JVC RS400 with my white matte screen, a great combination for dark scenes, BUT in bright scenes the dark/black bodies are completely washed out and my deep blacks become grey.

I usually watch movie in complete darkness at night but I have to fight to ceiling/environment reflections. In the third screen you can see the issue with black bars. In that screen I've put 2 xyscreen samples, black crystal (gain 0.8) and black crystal hg (gain 2.0). As you can see none of them resolves my problems.

So I'm looking for something else to preserve my blacks and increase my contrast with bright scenes.

I thought that the best choice was Pulsar 1.4 by Dark Energy Screen, but after almost 3 weeks I didn't receive any response from Stephen. So I'd like to know if the DEA business is up&running. Maybe @Ftoast , @LumensLover or @MississippiMan can know the answer.

So at the moment I'm stuck, can you help me to choose the best screen for my needs?

Thanks a lot
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post #2 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 08:34 AM
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post #3 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabside View Post
Hi all,
After reading a lot of post about alr screens, I haven't a clear idea of which one is the best for me.

first of all, in attachment you can see a couple of shots of my environment.

At the moment I use a JVC RS400 with my white matte screen, a great combination for dark scenes, BUT in bright scenes the dark/black bodies are completely washed out and my deep blacks become grey.

I usually watch movie in complete darkness at night but I have to fight to ceiling/environment reflections. In the third screen you can see the issue with black bars. In that screen I've put 2 xyscreen samples, black crystal (gain 0.8) and black crystal hg (gain 2.0). As you can see none of them resolves my problems.

So I'm looking for something else to preserve my blacks and increase my contrast with bright scenes.

I thought that the best choice was Pulsar 1.4 by Dark Energy Screen, but after almost 3 weeks I didn't receive any response from Stephen. So I'd like to know if the DEA business is up&running. Maybe @Ftoast , @LumensLover or @MississippiMan can know the answer.

So at the moment I'm stuck, can you help me to choose the best screen for my needs?

Thanks a lot

Well....................,


The xyscreen approach is way over stressed and underwhelming. And the SI-BD is a complete non-starter as far as I'm concerned, Yeah...not a Fan, but that's my opinion and my experience personally and from hearing the laments of a lot of owners. Some do seem happy, so ...............

As for the Dark Energy Pulsar 1.4, I can say with no bias (...and no involvement...)that it is pretty darn incredible...and worth every cent. What I can't say is why you haven't had a response from Stephen. Did you attempt to reach out to him more than once? Might just be a simple oversight or a communication snafu. (misdirected email) I do know he doesn't frequent the Forum much (PMs included) because of a few people taking issue with potential promotional conflicts...though he himself was / hasn't been guilty of such...just a lot of effusive Owners going a bit nuts about how much they liked their DE's. He might not want to respond to such inquires on Forum space.



Send me a PM with your contact info and I'll do my own reaching out to him and see if I can shake the tree a bit. I'd like to know if sumpthin's up myself.

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post #4 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 12:24 PM
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For me Dark Energy Pulsar 1.4 can be ideal screen but with shipping outside US and extra cost like VAT, so much expensive. For now i am wait for sample of HIViGrey Cinema 5D who is in EU.
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post #5 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Well....................,


Send me a PM with your contact info and I'll do my own reaching out to him and see if I can shake the tree a bit. I'd like to know if sumpthin's up myself.
Thanks a lot for your support!
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post #6 of 53 Old 11-11-2018, 06:57 PM
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How wide and how tall is your screen?
How far back is your JVC mounted (distance between front-lens and the screen)?

It looks like you've already darkened the first few feet nearest the screen..are you able to darken the rest of the ceiling as well, or is that something you're going to avoid?
Likewise, is a dark-colored area rug for the floor between the seats and screen and dark-colored curtains or paint for the left/right/rear walls an option?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #7 of 53 Old 11-12-2018, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
How wide and how tall is your screen?
How far back is your JVC mounted (distance between front-lens and the screen)?

It looks like you've already darkened the first few feet nearest the screen..are you able to darken the rest of the ceiling as well, or is that something you're going to avoid?
Likewise, is a dark-colored area rug for the floor between the seats and screen and dark-colored curtains or paint for the left/right/rear walls an option?
Hi Ftoast,
in attachment, you can find everything about my setup (ASIS) and a simulation with Abyss and Pulsar screen (TOBE).

Unfortunately I can not paint the whole ceiling black.
Also I have a room to be renovated that I will use as a dedicated HT room in a few years. So I prefer not to modify in an invasive way the current room
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post #8 of 53 Old 11-12-2018, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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+TOBE simulations
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post #9 of 53 Old 11-23-2018, 06:46 PM
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Love my Dark Energy Pulsar! Still have to get the ceiling painted, and relocated the surrounds a tad. Then onto the riser build! But I don't have enough good things to say about my Dark Energy Screen.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...e-order-3.html
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post #10 of 53 Old 11-23-2018, 10:50 PM
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I'm not quite sure what your expectations are...

I also have samples of the black crystal and they work really well. When I turn on the lights (spots above the screen), the image remains pretty much the same. It does not make black blacker, unless the 0.8 gain one, but that will be at the expense of the highest regions.
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post #11 of 53 Old 11-26-2018, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamMann81 View Post
Love my Dark Energy Pulsar! Still have to get the ceiling painted, and relocated the surrounds a tad. Then onto the riser build! But I don't have enough good things to say about my Dark Energy Screen.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...e-order-3.html

Well awwllllryeteey then!


I hope you do "Rise" to the occasion soon!

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post #12 of 53 Old 12-04-2018, 12:45 PM
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Man... today has been a rollercoaster ride reading about peoples' opinions of the DE Screens.

I had an Abyss in flex material, now I have an Abyss in the Infinity Edge SS screen... People are still literally in shock when they realize my 106" screen is projected and not a TV. Have never gotten anything but compliments and sheer amazement from visitors/guests.

All that being said, I am closing escrow on a new house this month, with space for a fully dedicated theater. The thing is I want to be a mixed use gaming/theater, but still a 100% light controlled monster when I want to turn everything off and just lose myself in the full theater experience.

MississippiMan, do you know if DE has an AT ALR Pulsar material?

Also the bigger the better, and also am confident I am going to be going with the 2.35 aspect ratio this time around... but I am hopinh to fine one AT because I want to run inwall speakers behind the screen.
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post #13 of 53 Old 02-16-2020, 11:46 PM
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ive got a very bright projector optoma uhd50x (3400 lumens) and want to no if i should get a low gain screen ( 0.8 gain ) or high gain ALR screen like 1.4 gain. my room can be very dark or very bright as i can control the light with cinema blinds. can you help with any recommendations
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post #14 of 53 Old 02-18-2020, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davorn34 View Post
ive got a very bright projector optoma uhd50x (3400 lumens) and want to no if i should get a low gain screen ( 0.8 gain ) or high gain ALR screen like 1.4 gain. my room can be very dark or very bright as i can control the light with cinema blinds. can you help with any recommendations
Have you decided on the screen size?

How far away is the projector from the screen?

What is the source of the ambient light and intensity?

Have you considered using paints?
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post #15 of 53 Old 02-18-2020, 10:16 PM
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Screen i bought is a 120 inch alr black crystal 0.8 gain

Projector will be about 3.4 meters from screen
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post #16 of 53 Old 02-18-2020, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davorn34 View Post
Screen i bought is a 120 inch alr black crystal 0.8 gain

Projector will be about 3.4 meters from screen
Throw ratio for this setup is 1.27x. Almost certainly will have visual artifacts, most visible in bright/almost white scenes.

A white/grey screen would have been more suitable with light control so it does not hit the screen directly.

To use an ALR screen and have less artifacts, it should be used with projector's longest throw, 1.59x.
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post #17 of 53 Old 02-18-2020, 11:38 PM
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Sorry but what are artifacts. Any way to solve the problem with my setup
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post #18 of 53 Old 02-18-2020, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
A white/grey screen would have been more suitable with light control so it does not hit the screen directly.
But what color are the walls, how bright is the projector really, can the projector be moved further back. And what does 1080p240 DLP look like?!
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post #19 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 01:17 AM
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I cant move the projector back any further. It arrives in a few days and input lag is supposed to be 15.7ms . I hope its good for movies as its the worlds first 240hrz proje5
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post #20 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 01:23 AM
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It has 3400 lumens but im going to use it in eco mode which might help
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post #21 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davorn34 View Post
I cant move the projector back any further. It arrives in a few days and input lag is supposed to be 15.7ms . I hope its good for movies as its the worlds first 240hrz proje5
This is not a movie projector, it's a gaming projector. And an expensive one at that.

Lag does not matter in movies, only in gaming.

Lumens values should not be taken from the value next to the projector's name. This unit probably has ~1500 lumens in a regular preset in Full lamp, with ~1000 lumens in Eco.

Visual artifacts of when an alr screen is used too close to the projector are hotspots (where the center is brighter than the edges), sparkles and speckle.

I don't think there is any alr that will not have visual artifacts at the throw ratio of 1.27x.

So what is needed is a white/light grey screen, light controlled so it does not hit the screen directly, and perhaps painting the walls in a darker color/shade to reduce reflections.
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post #22 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 08:49 AM
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It has 3400 lumens but im going to use it in eco mode which might help
The closest 4K shifting Optoma I could find a professional review for with a similar brightness output and 240watt p-vip lamp is the UHD60.
The following quotes are about this UHD60, but they're VERY common for many projectors.


"The Optoma UHD is rated at 3000 lumens. However, its Bright mode, which puts out close to 3000 lumens on our test sample, is overtly green in tint and for the most part useless for video presentation unless you don't mind a greenish picture. The remaining preset modes are not as bright but they give you much better color fidelity."
The rest of its presets (the ones that aren't overtly green-tinted) measured closer to 1500lm or less.

"In Reference mode, color brightness is 100% of white. On the other hand, in the modes where Brilliant Color defaults to its maximum of 10, color brightness is 55% of white"
The Reference mode with full color-brightness measured around 500lm while the brightest non-green settings fell to 800lm or less at full color-brightness on FullLamp.

EcoLamp cut brightness by more than 1/3, dropping the projectors full-color brightness in non-green settings to around 300lm-500lm.
By increasing the peak-white brightness you can often push these numbers up by 1.3X-1.5X (around 400lm-700lm) while keeping a lot of less colorfull/vivid content looking pretty normal, but colors will never reach past 300-500lm in EcoLamp (or full lamp after enough use has caused the lamp to naturally dim over time).


In short, don't expect 3400lm in any preset you'd actually want to watch...this is the number that manufacturers publish to attract attention, but in practice it's more for projecting Black&White spreadsheets in a lit office or school. In a hometheater or gaming setup where you'd like white to look white and colors to look bright/vivid expect to keep closer to 500-800lm on the screen..first starting in EcoLamp and eventually switching to FullLamp when Eco becomes too dim with age.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #23 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 12:15 PM
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If the sparkle and artifacts are as bad as you say ill get a white screen in the future. What gain should i be getting.
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post #24 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davorn34 View Post
If the sparkle and artifacts are as bad as you say ill get a white screen in the future. What gain should i be getting.
How big is the room, color of the walls, floor color/type, ceiling color/height, furniture, screen distance to ceiling/walls/floor. These are the things that determine is you should select a white, gray, or alr screen.
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post #25 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 03:24 PM
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Room walls are all white
Projector to screen will be about 3.4 meters
Ive already bought a ALR screen 0.8 gain which should be arriving next week. Hope it all works well. I have a full light controlled room
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post #26 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davorn34 View Post
Room walls are all white
Projector to screen will be about 3.4 meters
Ive already bought a ALR screen 0.8 gain which should be arriving next week. Hope it all works well. I have a full light controlled room
That's a good screen for a white room. Just for reference, in terms of projection, light control means controlling reflected light off the screen, into the room, and back to the screen, by making the room non-reflective, i.e. dark fabrics
Here's an example of the effect of a white room on a projectors contrast:


You're dark grey negative screen will offset the white room and maintain the projectors contrast better.
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post #27 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 05:52 PM
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@bdht the alr screen mentioned above is 120" from 340cm, which would result in a 1.27x throw ratio. I don't imagine the UHD50x has great uniformity and some of these non rgbrgb color wheel require Brilliant Color to be enabled to look ok which increases the lumens value.

I suggested light control, redirection of lights and painting + a white screen.
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post #28 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
@bdht the alr screen mentioned above is 120" from 340cm, which would result in a 1.27x throw ratio. I don't imagine the UHD50x has great uniformity and some of these non rgbrgb color wheel require Brilliant Color to be enabled to look ok which increases the lumens value.

I suggested light control, redirection of lights and painting + a white screen.
Absolutely black out the room. If you can't though and you gotta live with the artifacts that come with that material I find it to be an ok trade off for the improved black level and contrast.

I do wonder what the color brightness and lumen output of the rgbwrgbw wheel. As well as the color refresh at 240hz ;] That wheel might be loud
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post #29 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Absolutely black out the room. If you can't though and you gotta live with the artifacts that come with that material I find it to be an ok trade off for the improved black level and contrast.

I do wonder what the color brightness and lumen output of the rgbwrgbw wheel. As well as the color refresh at 240hz ;] That wheel might be loud

A matte grey screen then.

I don't know about the artifacts, 1.27x with that projector might be too severe.
On the cinegrey 3d at 1.15x it wasn't good: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58568560
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post #30 of 53 Old 02-19-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
A matte grey screen then.

I don't know about the artifacts, 1.27x with that projector might be too severe.
On the cinegrey 3d at 1.15x it wasn't good: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58568560
He already bought the screen so gonna have to see. But if its the bc0.8 it has an 80⁰ half gain whereas the cine3d is 40⁰ so the image should be more uniform. The bc0.8 is a much darker material as well and improves black level. darker than a 0.5 gain gray. It needs lights off ut does fight cross reflections well.
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