Using Da-Mat Material vs. HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast for 4K - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 12-12-2018, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Using Da-Mat Material vs. HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast for 4K

I currently have a Da-Lite Tensioned Contour Electrol Scope screen (2.4:1) with the Da-Mat material. Back then I had a Panasonic AE8000U 1080P projector. I recently upgraded to a JVC DLA-X790R projector. I'm looking for a suitable replacement.

Has anyone had any experience with HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast material?

Also, is my existing Da-Mat material not appropriate for 4K+ material? A few sources have stated that it is not.

Thanks
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post #2 of 30 Old 12-14-2018, 01:21 PM
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It has been a while since I have had a Da-Mat fabric so can't comment on that, but I currently have the HD Progressive 0.9 gain screen and it is very nice, no sheen, no grain no sparkles. 4K looks very good on it.

SONY VPL-VW385ES, Da-Lite 92" 0.9 HD progressive 16x9 screen, Apple TV 4K, HDFury Integral 2, Oppo UDP 203, Panasonic DP-UB820, Anthem AVM 60, D-Sonic 4000 (800x3, 400x4) for bed layer, 2 Crown XLS 1002 (225x4) for Atmos; Speakers: Polk LSiM 705s, 703 front, 4 702F/X surround, 4 Polk TL3 (Atmos), Dual Velodyne DD15 Subwoofers.
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post #3 of 30 Old 12-16-2018, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
It has been a while since I have had a Da-Mat fabric so can't comment on that, but I currently have the HD Progressive 0.9 gain screen and it is very nice, no sheen, no grain no sparkles. 4K looks very good on it.
Had you compared the HD Progressive 1.1 and 1.1 Contrast material before settling on 0.9?
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post #4 of 30 Old 12-17-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by stummala View Post
Had you compared the HD Progressive 1.1 and 1.1 Contrast material before settling on 0.9?
I had been quite concerned about sparkles on my previous 1.3 gain CV screen so I think that Da-Lite recommended the 0.9 gain material so that it would be completely sparkle free. It has worked fine for me given my SONY projector and relatively small screen size.

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post #5 of 30 Old 12-30-2018, 07:53 AM
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I tested both the HD Progressive 1.1 and the 0.9 before deciding on the 0.9. I am using a 4k uhd Vivitek hk2288 dlp which is plenty bright and needed the help with the black levels so the 0.9 was the right choice for my setup. My screen is fixed frame 106” 16*9 with a 12.5 foot throw distance. I calibrated using the settings recommended by an ISF pro in these forums. The image is nothing short of spectacular.

I was using a non progressive screen material previously and the difference was startling with the 4k projector. Sparkles disappeared and detail was greatly enhanced. The colors were also better. Dollar for dollar the screen material upgrade was easily worth the money. Even my wife said so...
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post #6 of 30 Old 03-27-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by xsynergist View Post
I tested both the HD Progressive 1.1 and the 0.9 before deciding on the 0.9. I am using a 4k uhd Vivitek hk2288 dlp which is plenty bright and needed the help with the black levels so the 0.9 was the right choice for my setup. My screen is fixed frame 106” 16*9 with a 12.5 foot throw distance. I calibrated using the settings recommended by an ISF pro in these forums. The image is nothing short of spectacular.

I was using a non progressive screen material previously and the difference was startling with the 4k projector. Sparkles disappeared and detail was greatly enhanced. The colors were also better. Dollar for dollar the screen material upgrade was easily worth the money. Even my wife said so...
I have the Cinema Contour HD Progressive 1.3 with my JVC X970R projector. The only complaint I have is the sparkles seen but only on very bright areas or scenes. However, while watching hockey I can see the sparkles all the time since the ice is all white.

I don't want to go too dim on the screen material because I'm already marginal for nits for HDR given my throw of 15' and 138" scope screen, but I want to eliminate the sparkles.
On the other hand my projector has great black levels so don't need a super dark screen material either.

Do you think I'd be better off swapping out my 1.3 with the 1.1, 1.1 Contrast or 0.9? Or just keep the 1.3?
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post #7 of 30 Old 03-28-2019, 08:12 AM
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When I was discussing a new screen fabric with Da-Lite, I said that my priority was no sparkles, and they said, 0.9 HD Progressive. I said, but the 1.1 would be brighter and they said, 0.9 is what you want, and that is what I got. I am very happy with the 0.9, no sparkles ever, but of course my screen is much smaller and so brightness is not as big an issue for me. I can watch pretty much everything in low bulb mode, especially now with the tone mapping in the Panny 820. Home theater is the art of the compromise.

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post #8 of 30 Old 08-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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No-one has tried the 1.1 contrast version???


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post #9 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I have the Cinema Contour HD Progressive 1.3 with my JVC X970R projector. The only complaint I have is the sparkles seen but only on very bright areas or scenes. However, while watching hockey I can see the sparkles all the time since the ice is all white.

I don't want to go too dim on the screen material because I'm already marginal for nits for HDR given my throw of 15' and 138" scope screen, but I want to eliminate the sparkles.
On the other hand my projector has great black levels so don't need a super dark screen material either.

Do you think I'd be better off swapping out my 1.3 with the 1.1, 1.1 Contrast or 0.9? Or just keep the 1.3?
Check out the 1.1 Contrast. Da-lite will send you a free sample. We've had no reports of sparkles with that surface
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post #10 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by stummala View Post
I currently have a Da-Lite Tensioned Contour Electrol Scope screen (2.4:1) with the Da-Mat material. Back then I had a Panasonic AE8000U 1080P projector. I recently upgraded to a JVC DLA-X790R projector. I'm looking for a suitable replacement.

Has anyone had any experience with HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast material?

Also, is my existing Da-Mat material not appropriate for 4K+ material? A few sources have stated that it is not.

Thanks
The Da-mat surface has texture, so it will not resolve a square 4k pixel without distorting it's geometry, wheras any of the HD Progressive surfaces will resolve up to 16k.
The HD 1.1 Contrast has been very popular in home theater applications when the viewing angle is appropriate.
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post #11 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
The Da-mat surface has texture, so it will not resolve a square 4k pixel without distorting it's geometry, wheras any of the HD Progressive surfaces will resolve up to 16k.
The HD 1.1 Contrast has been very popular in home theater applications when the viewing angle is appropriate.

Thanks for this - any word on how it is for 3D/polarization retention??




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post #12 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
Check out the 1.1 Contrast. Da-lite will send you a free sample. We've had no reports of sparkles with that surface
How much of a drop in nits would I expect going from the 1.3 to the 1.1? I'd like to ensure that while I reduce the sparkles, I don't drop my available nits for HDR very much. Currently I'm already only at 85 nits when zoomed out for scope images.
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post #13 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post
Thanks for this - any word on how it is for 3D/polarization retention??



Da-lite doesn't make a surface to support that any longer. No idea how this would handle polarization retention. You can always jump on their website and chat with them; I'm sure one of their agents can get you that info quickly
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post #14 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
Da-lite doesn't make a surface to support that any longer. No idea how this would handle polarization retention. You can always jump on their website and chat with them; I'm sure one of their agents can get you that info quickly
I have watched several 3D movies on my HD Progressive 0.9 gain screen and it works great for 3D.

Edit: With IR active glasses, so that may not really answer the question.

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post #15 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I have watched several 3D movies on my HD Progressive 0.9 gain screen and it works great for 3D.

Edit: With IR active glasses, so that may not really answer the question.
You only need a a screen with a high polarization retention if your projector uses passive 3d and/or polarized light. It is no longer common:
https://www.projectorreviews.com/hom...ection-part-2/
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post #16 of 30 Old 08-28-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
You only need a a screen with a high polarization retention if your projector uses passive 3d and/or polarized light. It is no longer common:
https://www.projectorreviews.com/hom...ection-part-2/
That is why I edited my post after thinking about it for a moment. Thanks for the quick clarification.

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post #17 of 30 Old 08-29-2019, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
Da-lite doesn't make a surface to support that any longer. No idea how this would handle polarization retention. You can always jump on their website and chat with them; I'm sure one of their agents can get you that info quickly



Well, in the thread for 3D screens here at AVS, the HD Progressive 1.1 gets a 3 (out of 4) rating, while the 0.6 and 0.9 gets a flat 0. My current Cinema Vision gets a 4.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/191-3...rojection.html








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post #18 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 08:27 AM
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Check out the 1.1 Contrast. Da-lite will send you a free sample. We've had no reports of sparkles with that surface
I obtained 3 samples from DaLite as follows (when I indicate lightest, middle, darkest below I'm referring to how they look when put side by side on a table with daylight in the room.

The lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 (215355 Sample)”.
The middle lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 0.9 (21513 Sample)”.
The darkest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast (11817Sample)”.

I held each up with the projector on to compare to my existing screen.

The HD Progressive 1.1 sample seems to be the same brightness as my current HD Progressive (JKP) 1.3, but doesn't have the sparkle, which is what I’m trying to remove.
The HD Progressive 0.9 sample has no sparkle either, but is just too dark I think given the one above has no sparkle either and is brighter.
The HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast sample seems to match the brightness of my 1.3 existing screen as well when I put it up next to my existing screen (even though it's the darkest one when putting samples side by side on a table). It however has the sparkle, so not good.

I've heard what was posted on this thread about Dalite recommending the 0.9 if you want to remove all sparkles, but given my screen size (138" scope screen), I'm wondering since I don't want to lose too many nits for HDR material, if I'm best to go with the HD Progressive 1.1 (not the contrast one) since it has no visible sparkles and is brighter (by the eye, anyways) than the 0.9.

Also, while my current projector is a JVC X970R, I'll likely be getting a NX9 soon which I believe is brighter.
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post #19 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 09:42 AM
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My advisor at Da-Lite clearly told me that to avoid the sparkles that I was seeing with my CV 1.3 that the 0.9 was the way to go. I specifically asked about the 1.1, but again was told go with the 0.9. Given my 92" diagonal screen size this was a good choice for me. I am glad to hear that the 1.1 is relatively sparkle free and given your screen size, that is probably a better choice for you. As to brightness of the image, an important factor is viewing angle. Look at the diagram posted above for the 1.1 Contrast. One does not have to be too far off axis for the gain to drop below 1, so keep that in mind if you have off-axis seating and see if you can find a similar graph for the 1.1.

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post #20 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
My advisor at Da-Lite clearly told me that to avoid the sparkles that I was seeing with my CV 1.3 that the 0.9 was the way to go. I specifically asked about the 1.1, but again was told go with the 0.9. Given my 92" diagonal screen size this was a good choice for me. I am glad to hear that the 1.1 is relatively sparkle free and given your screen size, that is probably a better choice for you. As to brightness of the image, an important factor is viewing angle. Look at the diagram posted above for the 1.1 Contrast. One does not have to be too far off axis for the gain to drop below 1, so keep that in mind if you have off-axis seating and see if you can find a similar graph for the 1.1.

I received the 0.6, 0.9, 1.1 and 1.3 samples. The 1.3 "sparkles" are a night&day difference compared to my CV 1.3. - so a major inprovement. Now I just need to get the 1.1 contrast sample.
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post #21 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
My advisor at Da-Lite clearly told me that to avoid the sparkles that I was seeing with my CV 1.3 that the 0.9 was the way to go. I specifically asked about the 1.1, but again was told go with the 0.9. Given my 92" diagonal screen size this was a good choice for me. I am glad to hear that the 1.1 is relatively sparkle free and given your screen size, that is probably a better choice for you. As to brightness of the image, an important factor is viewing angle. Look at the diagram posted above for the 1.1 Contrast. One does not have to be too far off axis for the gain to drop below 1, so keep that in mind if you have off-axis seating and see if you can find a similar graph for the 1.1.
I put a sample of Stewart StudioTek 100 & Neve + the Dalite HD Progressive 0.9 and 1.1 samples up on my current HD Progressive 1.3 screen and evaluated with a 100IRE pattern and other material.

The material I like the best is the Studiotek 100 (no sheen whatsoever).
The second best was the HD Progressive 0.9. It had just a slight almost imperceivable sheen, but alas I think for my 138” scope screen size that it would be too dim even if I purchased a brighter projector in the future.
A close third was the HD Progressive 1.1 (I could see a slight sheen, but not as apparent as my existing 1.3).

So, I think balancing all of this, I'm probably smarter to go with the 1.1 rather than ripping my whole screen and frame out and having to replace it just to get to a Studiotek 100.
Financially, I could do it but it seems a bit crazy given I can just replace the material on my existing DaLite Cinema Contour frame.

Thoughts?
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post #22 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post
I received the 0.6, 0.9, 1.1 and 1.3 samples. The 1.3 "sparkles" are a night&day difference compared to my CV 1.3. - so a major inprovement. Now I just need to get the 1.1 contrast sample.
Are you saying your current Cinema Vision 1.3 has way worse sparkles than the HD Progressive 1.3 sample?
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post #23 of 30 Old 08-31-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Are you saying your current Cinema Vision 1.3 has way worse sparkles than the HD Progressive 1.3 sample?

yes, it is easier to see the "glitter" with normal daylight - it is also more "yellowish" in color. I bought the CV 1.3 back in 2004 for my Barco 808... Unliked the HD samples, it does not have a black backing - it is a bit transparent actually.


The HD 1.3 material also feel a lot smoother than the CV 1.3 when run my fingers over it.
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post #24 of 30 Old 09-01-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I put a sample of Stewart StudioTek 100 & Neve + the Dalite HD Progressive 0.9 and 1.1 samples up on my current HD Progressive 1.3 screen and evaluated with a 100IRE pattern and other material.

The material I like the best is the Studiotek 100 (no sheen whatsoever).
The second best was the HD Progressive 0.9. It had just a slight almost imperceivable sheen, but alas I think for my 138” scope screen size that it would be too dim even if I purchased a brighter projector in the future.
A close third was the HD Progressive 1.1 (I could see a slight sheen, but not as apparent as my existing 1.3).

So, I think balancing all of this, I'm probably smarter to go with the 1.1 rather than ripping my whole screen and frame out and having to replace it just to get to a Studiotek 100.
Financially, I could do it but it seems a bit crazy given I can just replace the material on my existing DaLite Cinema Contour frame.

Thoughts?
I have swapped out the fabric and roller on Da-Lite screens several times now and it sure is cheaper and easier than getting a whole new screen with outer casing, etc. Makes sense to me.

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post #25 of 30 Old 09-04-2019, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I put a sample of Stewart StudioTek 100 & Neve + the Dalite HD Progressive 0.9 and 1.1 samples up on my current HD Progressive 1.3 screen and evaluated with a 100IRE pattern and other material.

The material I like the best is the Studiotek 100 (no sheen whatsoever).
The second best was the HD Progressive 0.9. It had just a slight almost imperceivable sheen, but alas I think for my 138” scope screen size that it would be too dim even if I purchased a brighter projector in the future.
A close third was the HD Progressive 1.1 (I could see a slight sheen, but not as apparent as my existing 1.3).

So, I think balancing all of this, I'm probably smarter to go with the 1.1 rather than ripping my whole screen and frame out and having to replace it just to get to a Studiotek 100.
Financially, I could do it but it seems a bit crazy given I can just replace the material on my existing DaLite Cinema Contour frame.

Thoughts?
Getting a whole new screen with Studiotek 100 will run you over $3,200 (based on pricing of 130 in 2.35:1 via their Standard Solutions); getting a new surface for your Da-lite screen should be about 1/3rd of that.

You are fortunate enough to have been able to test them all out and know how the HD Pro compares to it. I would suggest going the replacement surface route and save that $ to put towards your NX9
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post #26 of 30 Old 09-05-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ProjectionHead View Post
Check out the 1.1 Contrast. Da-lite will send you a free sample. We've had no reports of sparkles with that surface

I just received the sample. Material looks like a darker version of the 0.9. Still far from as dark as the 0.6, but notably darker than the 0.9 even though it is still a light grey.



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post #27 of 30 Old 09-22-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I have watched several 3D movies on my HD Progressive 0.9 gain screen and it works great for 3D.

Edit: With IR active glasses, so that may not really answer the question.

Your SONY VPL-VW385ES does not use polarized light, e.g. like the JVCs???



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post #28 of 30 Old 09-22-2019, 07:51 AM
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Are you saying your current Cinema Vision 1.3 has way worse sparkles than the HD Progressive 1.3 sample?

I made photo comparing CinemaVision 1.3 vs HD Progressive 1.3. Cinema Vision on top - huge difference in "glitter". iPhone pic, so sharpness it not correct.




The biggest shock was the different in how sharp the pixel structure is compared to the old Cinema Vision screen - this applies to all HD Progressive screens surfaces..











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post #29 of 30 Old 09-22-2019, 09:27 AM
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I obtained 3 samples from DaLite as follows (when I indicate lightest, middle, darkest below I'm referring to how they look when put side by side on a table with daylight in the room.

The lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 (215355 Sample)”.
The middle lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 0.9 (21513 Sample)”.
The darkest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast (11817Sample)”.

I held each up with the projector on to compare to my existing screen.

The HD Progressive 1.1 sample seems to be the same brightness as my current HD Progressive (JKP) 1.3, but doesn't have the sparkle, which is what I’m trying to remove.
The HD Progressive 0.9 sample has no sparkle either, but is just too dark I think given the one above has no sparkle either and is brighter.
The HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast sample seems to match the brightness of my 1.3 existing screen as well when I put it up next to my existing screen (even though it's the darkest one when putting samples side by side on a table). It however has the sparkle, so not good.

I've heard what was posted on this thread about Dalite recommending the 0.9 if you want to remove all sparkles, but given my screen size (138" scope screen), I'm wondering since I don't want to lose too many nits for HDR material, if I'm best to go with the HD Progressive 1.1 (not the contrast one) since it has no visible sparkles and is brighter (by the eye, anyways) than the 0.9.

Also, while my current projector is a JVC X970R, I'll likely be getting a NX9 soon which I believe is brighter.

In your opinion, does the 1.1 Contrast have more, less or the same "sparkle" as the HD Progressive 1.3 ???







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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I obtained 3 samples from DaLite as follows (when I indicate lightest, middle, darkest below I'm referring to how they look when put side by side on a table with daylight in the room.

The lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 (215355 Sample)”.
The middle lightest one is labelled “HD Progressive 0.9 (21513 Sample)”.
The darkest one is labelled “HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast (11817Sample)”.

I held each up with the projector on to compare to my existing screen.

The HD Progressive 1.1 sample seems to be the same brightness as my current HD Progressive (JKP) 1.3, but doesn't have the sparkle, which is what I’️m trying to remove.
The HD Progressive 0.9 sample has no sparkle either, but is just too dark I think given the one above has no sparkle either and is brighter.
The HD Progressive 1.1 Contrast sample seems to match the brightness of my 1.3 existing screen as well when I put it up next to my existing screen (even though it's the darkest one when putting samples side by side on a table). It however has the sparkle, so not good.

I've heard what was posted on this thread about Dalite recommending the 0.9 if you want to remove all sparkles, but given my screen size (138" scope screen), I'm wondering since I don't want to lose too many nits for HDR material, if I'm best to go with the HD Progressive 1.1 (not the contrast one) since it has no visible sparkles and is brighter (by the eye, anyways) than the 0.9.

Also, while my current projector is a JVC X970R, I'll likely be getting a NX9 soon which I believe is brighter.

In your opinion, does the 1.1 Contrast have more, less or the same "sparkle" as the HD Progressive 1.3 ???






Significantly less. But I can still see a little.
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