Field of View Poll! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: What's your prime seating's field of view?
Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV less than 36deg = prime row more than 3.68xH 1 1.25%
Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 36-43deg = prime row between 3.68xH and 3.00xH 4 5.00%
Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 44-53deg = prime row between 2.99xH and 2.39xH 14 17.50%
Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 54-62deg = prime row between 2.38xH and 2.00xH 6 7.50%
Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV greater than 62deg = prime row less than 2.00xH 2 2.50%
Native HDTV/CIW Screen (16:9) - FOV less than 36deg = prime row more than 1.54xW 8 10.00%
Native HDTV/CIW Screen (16:9) - FOV 36-43deg = prime row between 1.54xW and 1.26xW 14 17.50%
Native HDTV/CIW Screen (16:9) - FOV 44-53deg = prime row between 1.25xW and 1.00xW 24 30.00%
Native HDTV/CIW Screen (16:9) - FOV 54-62deg = prime row between 0.99xW and 0.84xW 3 3.75%
Native HDTV/CIW Screen (16:9) - FOV greater than 62deg = prime row less than 0.84xW 4 5.00%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 113 Old 01-19-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
My bad was useing old measure tape with missing front section
Quick trip to hardware store and new measure tape says 421 cms?
Got soda remeasured and tape says 422 cms from projector screen to projector lens ?
Once my kids get here i will have them measure with new tape
That was fast -- just 36 minutes from the time I posted to you checking the old tape measure, going to the hardware store for a new tape measure, re-measuring twice and posting new data.

Now, back to the other measurements. You said the bottom of the screen is 25.75" from the floor so let's round that to 26". Sitting in a typical chair the top of a typical person's head is >40" off the floor. So your head would be overlapping the screen by at least 14". Your projector lens is 422 cm (166" or 13' 10") from the screen and your heads are 3' from the screen and overlapping by at least 14". It's not clear from those measurements how your head would not be in the light path. But a simple photo will help explain that.
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post #62 of 113 Old 01-19-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
That was fast -- just 36 minutes from the time I posted to you checking the old tape measure, going to the hardware store for a new tape measure, re-measuring twice and posting new data.

Now, back to the other measurements. You said the bottom of the screen is 25.75" from the floor so let's round that to 26". Sitting in a typical chair the top of a typical person's head is >40" off the floor. So your head would be overlapping the screen by at least 14". Your projector lens is 422 cm (166" or 13' 10") from the screen and your heads are 3' from the screen and overlapping by at least 14". It's not clear from those measurements how your head would not be in the light path. But a simple photo will help explain that.

pictures.
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Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
I can hear my wallet screaming already
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post #63 of 113 Old 01-19-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
16 9 135 inch diagonalMy body height 5 feet six inches
Sitting distance is feet touching wall under projector screen
So theater chair is 3 feet? Four feet? From projector screen ?


Viewing angle 117 degrees says calculator .


I like sitting at this distance and do not care what recommended distance says.
Do you run native 4K? At that distance, 1080p won't look that great. At least you will get full benefit from native 4K.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #64 of 113 Old 01-19-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Do you run native 4K? At that distance, 1080p won't look that great. At least you will get full benefit from native 4K.
My projector is only capable of 1080p but looks good but just waiting till spring to get a 4k projector

Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
I can hear my wallet screaming already
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post #65 of 113 Old 01-19-2019, 05:59 PM
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I'm inside the SMPTE minimum with a 4K 2.35 screen. I sit 11' 4" back from a 16' wide screen. This is about the middle row in a quality IMAX like Navy Pier in Chicago.

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Car...xstmm.jpg.html

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Car...ohmmr.jpg.html

Art

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post #66 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Burrows View Post
My projector is only capable of 1080p but looks good but just waiting till spring to get a 4k projector


Russell I’m still not following where the PJ is. Behind the screen? There’s no way that works with a normal PJ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #67 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 08:44 AM
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Russell I’m still not following where the PJ is. Behind the screen? There’s no way that works with a normal PJ.


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His head and feet are just at the bottom of the screen sitting reclined is my guess. His vision really upwards. About like sitting in the front row of IMAX.

Most of us want to maintain a distance where we don’t see pixels. In 480p days that meant even extending your seating distance for some. Some people do not mind seeing pixels. Lots of movies even use it as a background effect.

I agree Russell is sitting in the top one percent of people in immersion. I cant think of many movies I would like that close but I have seen some flight simulators where I could see doing it.
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post #68 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
His head and feet are just at the bottom of the screen sitting reclined is my guess. His vision really upwards. About like sitting in the front row of IMAX.



Most of us want to maintain a distance where we don’t see pixels. In 480p days that meant even extending your seating distance for some. Some people do not mind seeing pixels. Lots of movies even use it as a background effect.



I agree Russell is sitting in the top one percent of people in immersion. I cant think of many movies I would like that close but I have seen some flight simulators where I could see doing it.


I’m still struggling with how your not blocking the pj light almost all the time.


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post #69 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
I'm inside the SMPTE minimum with a 4K 2.35 screen. I sit 11' 4" back from a 16' wide screen. This is about the middle row in a quality IMAX like Navy Pier in Chicago.

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Car...xstmm.jpg.html

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Car...ohmmr.jpg.html

Art
Truly awesome theater! Is that your front row? What distances are the other two rows?

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post #70 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 10:13 AM
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@Russell Burrows , thanks for taking the time to post the images. Unfortunately they don't show the whole "picture" of your family sitting with their eyes just 3' from the 135" screen with an image on the screen. If you can manage that at your convenience it will answer everyone's questions about how this might work. Even a picture of the seating and screen together with no one sitting in the chairs would be helpful. Another even easier piece of info that would be helpful would be to take your new tape measure and measure the actual distance of your eyes to the screen when seated to confirm your original estimate of 3'. It's not that viewing a 135" screen from 3' is impossible to believe, it's just so unusual that you've sparked a lot of curiosity about what the seating arrangement might look like to avoid blocking the projector's light path.
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post #71 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
Truly awesome theater! Is that your front row? What distances are the other two rows?


Thanks ! Each row is about 6'6" back from the row in front of it.

Art
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post #72 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@Russell Burrows , thanks for taking the time to post the images. Unfortunately they don't show the whole "picture" of your family sitting with their eyes just 3' from the 135" screen with an image on the screen. If you can manage that at your convenience it will answer everyone's questions about how this might work. Even a picture of the seating and screen together with no one sitting in the chairs would be helpful. Another even easier piece of info that would be helpful would be to take your new tape measure and measure the actual distance of your eyes to the screen when seated to confirm your original estimate of 3'. It's not that viewing a 135" screen from 3' is impossible to believe, it's just so unusual that you've sparked a lot of curiosity about what the seating arrangement might look like to avoid blocking the projector's light path.

Some people like super immersion and don't mind shadows on the screen.
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post #73 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Thanks ! Each row is about 6'6" back from the row in front of it.

Art
Art, your FOV choices *for all three rows* are brilliant feathers in your meticulous attention to detail cap!

front row = 70deg (IMAX mid-point and arguable sweet spot)

middle row = 48deg (popular scope sweet spot)

back row = 36deg (THX minimum, still a sweet spot for many old schoolers!)


Also noted is the curved seating to help ensure the absolute best views for all seats in the house! Most impressive and inspiring! You are Emperor of the Sweet Spots! #EmperorSweetSpot
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post #74 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
Truly awesome theater! Is that your front row? What distances are the other two rows?
As @Art Sonneborn has one of the finest CIH theaters on the forum and one many of us would aspire to have I ran thru his numbers with the information he has provided as an example of what multi row seating at home would compare to commercial theater seating in terms of immersion. Art has just about as large of a screen as any at home measuring 17.3’ diagonal or 109 sq ft. Where my scope image size 104” diagonal is 27 sq ft or roughly one quarter the screen area. We share somewhat similar levels of immersion though between my one row and his front row with different seating distances.

Art’s screen would be 82x192 scope (208”) and 82x151 flat (172”) with his rows viewing distances 136, 214, 292.

Using the method of immersion I like as a ratio of screen height to seating distance you get 1.66SH, 2.61SH, 3.56SH.

Converting to angles based around scope width of Art’s theater. 70.5, 48.5, 36.4 degrees.

Art’s front row as he stated is similar to mid row in IMAX or the front 1/3 in a conventional theater, quite immersive. His middle row would be like the back 1/3 at IMAX and the middle of a conventional theater. His back row would likely be not IMAX immersion at all and the back 1/3 of a conventional theater.

IMO and no news to Art his theater seating is beautifully spaced and about as good as could be done, and perfect for showing 15 people a movie.

Now if I were to work thru the same method for my screen size or even a little larger say 120” for not 3 rows but only 2 rows the results would be much different given the same comfortable 6’ between rows in terms of immersion. One solution I used in my first theater that worked was to make the front row the money seats and the second row more upright conventional theater seats allowing the distance between rows to be compressed to about 3’. The second row was thought of as overflow seating actually. I had 4 seats in the first row and that covered 95% of the need. With say 5 seats in the second row upright and not as wide would more than cover the other 5% need.

With the new house I had even less floor space and knew we would never exceed 5 people in a showing running the theater long wise we could have done first row 3 and second row 3 and would have to limit the screen size way down or go AT and that would have cut into the length of the room. Then there is the problem when you have 2 couples who gets left out of the party and sits a row back. With a desire for something like “true” IMAX as the new up coming max screen size format and not feeling like building a tall riser in a small room one row seemed more logical. With the potential now for IMAX immersion it seemed to make some content for some people overly immersive. That is solved with varying image size with zoom.

The point is the larger the screen the more options you have. Many people see these fairly large home theaters and desire the same only scaling it down. It works depending on how important immersion is to you. 99% of the homes have TVs now 50-60” and seating distance is 10-12’ and they are happy enough, so immersion isn’t everything.
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Last edited by bud16415; 01-20-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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post #75 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
Art, your FOV choices *for all three rows* are brilliant feathers in your meticulous attention to detail cap!

front row = 70deg (IMAX mid-point and arguable sweet spot)

middle row = 48deg (popular scope sweet spot)

back row = 36deg (THX minimum, still a sweet spot for many old schoolers!)


Also noted is the curved seating to help ensure the absolute best views for all seats in the house! Most impressive and inspiring! You are Emperor of the Sweet Spots! #EmperorSweetSpot
You did your math a little faster than me.

What you highlighted 70deg, 48deg, 36deg having 3 rows to pick from is about the same options I use only with a single row. With zoom you can create virtual rows. What I loose is the capacity for seating 15 people. What I gain with ¼ the screen area is 4 times the brightness.
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post #76 of 113 Old 01-20-2019, 11:50 PM
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smooth floor no risers, no pits no hidden lifts just screen pj and seats and these are normal seats purchased from walmart for normal sized adults.


k pictures.
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Yamaha avr, diy l c r surround Behringer nx3000 dsp Fi car audio ib318 v2 310 cubic foot concrete ib lg pf 1500 projector.steren projector mount.
Pending create diy riser Bass shakers , buy fourty 6 inch drivers for some new mains get new 4k projector
I can hear my wallet screaming already
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post #77 of 113 Old 01-21-2019, 08:51 AM
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@Russell Burrows , many thanks for taking the time to post all those images. Image 12 of 17 really tells the story. It looks as if your angle of recline would just keep your head from getting in the projector's light path. It also looks as if your eyes may be closer to 4' from the screen than 3'. But 4' from a 135" screen is still about as close as anyone on this forum has ever mentioned. I could never enjoy sitting that close to a 1080p image of that size because I would be totally distracted by seeing pixels. And if I forced my wife to sit that close to a 135" screen she would report me to the police for abuse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
@Russell Burrows , many thanks for taking the time to post all those images. Image 12 of 17 really tells the story. It looks as if your angle of recline would just keep your head from getting in the projector's light path. It also looks as if your eyes may be closer to 4' from the screen than 3'. But 4' from a 135" screen is still about as close as anyone on this forum has ever mentioned. I could never enjoy sitting that close to a 1080p image of that size because I would be totally distracted by seeing pixels. And if I forced my wife to sit that close to a 135" screen she would report me to the police for abuse.
He’s only 3-4’ from the bottom of the screen, he’s a much more comfortable 7-8’ from the top.

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post #79 of 113 Old 01-21-2019, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting poll observation: I would've guessed Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 54-62deg = prime row between 2.38xH and 2.00xH to be more popular. An example in this range would be a 57deg scope FOV which includes a built-in 44deg HDTV FOV. A sweet 2-for-1 FOV!

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post #80 of 113 Old 01-21-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post
Interesting poll observation: I would've guessed Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 54-62deg = prime row between 2.38xH and 2.00xH to be more popular. An example in this range would be a 57deg scope FOV which includes a built-in 44deg HDTV FOV. A sweet 2-for-1 FOV!
Your poll doesn’t really have a category range for 16:9 screen to be used as IMAX. When I voted I used the 16:9 selections because that is what my projector is and what my largest most immersive size would be in IMAX not flat.

Your assumption I think is correct that the very popular immersion levels for CIH would be between 2.00xH and 2.5xH. Even people that say they don’t care for in your face immersion are ok with 2.5xH. Once you go below 2.0xH you start getting into IMAX1.89 like immersions. Keep in mind directors slow things down for all in IMAX1.43 to be played in real IMAX1.43 theaters. Slower more deliberate pans.

Art’s theater we looked at yesterday, he was talking in a different thread how he likes his front row best most of the time but when it comes to movies with lots of hand held camera work and fast action and rapid pans, he then watches from his second row and likes the immersion better.

I find the same thing true and adjust accordingly. A good director that wants a IMAX or even IMAX1.89 presentation will be aware of that and film it thinking about how it will be viewed.

Bud
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post #81 of 113 Old 01-21-2019, 10:49 PM
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In my last iteration, I had 143 inch 16:9, approx. 9 foot seating distance.


I also have a cheap manually adjustable PJ.



I just zoomed in and out between 143 and approx. 100 inches as needed, there is no watching a 143 inch image with heavy blair witch type pans without a few people feeling sick or youtube vids with a head mounted cam...….



The 143 was max size for my throw distance...…..in my next planned iteration I want to push it as big as a PJ will support.....I know about 150 inch was pushing my 1080 ht2050 to the limits and 9 feet from a 1080 image that size did not give the best picture quality...….I can step in my adjoining room and get a 16 to 17 foot viewing distance and the picture looked much better from that distance.


I will be curious how far I can push a 4k PJ in relation to screen size viewing distance etc...… I will go as large as possible, probably a throw distance limited / wall size thing and just do cheap manual masking around the screen...…...I have played with it in my current room and a couple minutes to set up a movie between zooming and screen masking was no big deal for me.



I think what will make the ideal set up for me is doing a screen as large as possible, then just manually masking, then I have all options and sizes possible...…………….



Right now I have mine shrunk down on the 121 inch screen to right under 100 inches soo it gets brighter and I can have the lights on.....later if I do a movie, I might blow it up to the 121 again...…...which is the max size I can go due to throw distance.....I think I measured the smallest at about 80 inches, which is nice for when all the lights are on and non critical viewing.
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post #82 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 08:06 AM
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Right now I have mine shrunk down on the 121 inch screen to right under 100 inches soo it gets brighter and I can have the lights on.....later if I do a movie, I might blow it up to the 121 again...…...which is the max size I can go due to throw distance.....I think I measured the smallest at about 80 inches, which is nice for when all the lights are on and non critical viewing.
I stared doing my zoom with moving the projector rather than zoom and the big benefit is leaving the projector at widest zoom for max light output and then when zooming by moving the projector I get a double hit in brightness. The other plus with a manual projector is no messing with zoom and focus control. I can go from 65” to 110” in 10 seconds. What I found for me is manual masking wore me out.

I love the brightness boost for TV with some lights on. Maybe 50-60 FL hitting the screen
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post #83 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 11:36 AM
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So...I come in at 44.3 deg. according to the site http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html which only works for 16:9 and 4:3 screens. Since I do a simple 151.5" 16:9 image at 13.5 feet, the site works. Unlike many of you we never really cared about guidelines and simply picked the seating distance that worked for the family. By moving the seats back and forth we finally drilled into the distance that works for everyone in the family just like we always did with TVs and commercial theaters. Much closer and eye strain/stomach queasiness becomes a factor...too far back and it is "meh". While I/we have been known to pull a almost "Russell Burrows" extreme for IMAX, 3D and "ride/motion videos", we can only take it for a very short time...say around two hours max and since a day's viewing may run 6 to 16 plus hours, that extreme doesn't work for daily viewing.
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post #84 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 12:03 PM
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So...I come in at 44.3 deg. according to the site http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html which only works for 16:9 and 4:3 screens. Since I do a simple 151.5" 16:9 image at 13.5 feet, the site works. Unlike many of you we never really cared about guidelines and simply picked the seating distance that worked for the family. By moving the seats back and forth we finally drilled into the distance that works for everyone in the family just like we always did with TVs and commercial theaters. Much closer and eye strain/stomach queasiness becomes a factor...too far back and it is "meh". While I/we have been known to pull a almost "Russell Burrows" extreme for IMAX, 3D and "ride/motion videos", we can only take it for a very short time...say around two hours max and since a day's viewing may run 6 to 16 plus hours, that extreme doesn't work for daily viewing.
Steve the AR on that site also threw me at first but because this whole angle thing is about screen width the program is fine for scope also as long as the width is correct.

The standards that talk about angle are assuming the theater is a CIH theater that shows both I think. That is my opposition to angle as I have mentioned to the OP @DigitalAV a couple of times. The increased immersion side to side isn’t what causes the fatigue and queasy stomach. It is the increase in height immersion that is the culprit IMO. Our normal vision in day-to-day life is 180deg. This is what made scope possible in the first place. Making the old image wider but not taller was fantastic so much more content without any of the drawbacks. IMAX is very careful about how they add height in. Even though IMAX1.89 and flat1.85 are very similar watching a flat movie IMAX height will be stressful.

When you push your couch up for a Russell Burrows hour of roller coaster fun knowing 16 hours of it would mess you up, you are doing what I do when I pull back on the stick and zoom up for the experience. Just two ways to do the same thing increase immersion. If I’m watching a IMAX movie and the next thing we watch is an episode of The Connors I’m pushing the stick back down.

Bud
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post #85 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 12:41 PM
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I get it now Bud...width is the factor not angles.

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Steve the AR on that site also threw me at first but because this whole angle thing is about screen width the program is fine for scope also as long as the width is correct.

The standards that talk about angle are assuming the theater is a CIH theater that shows both I think. That is my opposition to angle as I have mentioned to the OP @DigitalAV a couple of times. The increased immersion side to side isn’t what causes the fatigue and queasy stomach. It is the increase in height immersion that is the culprit IMO. Our normal vision in day-to-day life is 180deg. This is what made scope possible in the first place. Making the old image wider but not taller was fantastic so much more content without any of the drawbacks. IMAX is very careful about how they add height in. Even though IMAX1.89 and flat1.85 are very similar watching a flat movie IMAX height will be stressful.

When you push your couch up for a Russell Burrows hour of roller coaster fun knowing 16 hours of it would mess you up, you are doing what I do when I pull back on the stick and zoom up for the experience. Just two ways to do the same thing increase immersion. If I’m watching a IMAX movie and the next thing we watch is an episode of The Connors I’m pushing the stick back down.
Are you sure??? The 44.3 deg. number comes back when I use the width 132" and 143.5" of scope has to be different than 151.5" of 16:9 at 13.5 feet...right???

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post #86 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 12:47 PM
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Are you sure??? The 44.3 deg. number comes back when I use the width 132" and 143.5" of scope has to be different than 151.5" of 16:9 at 13.5 feet...right???
Well you are doing CIW so I would say yes the angle side to side will be the same. Vertical angle will change but no one talks about that.
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post #87 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 12:54 PM
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Are you sure??? The 44.3 deg. number comes back when I use the width 132" and 143.5" of scope has to be different than 151.5" of 16:9 at 13.5 feet...right???
My screen is much smaller only 96 wide but view distance is 8’ I get greater immersion at 53.1 degrees.
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post #88 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 05:48 PM
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Preferred Field of View

I like an immersive experience watching movies. So, I sit close at the cinema and have designed my home theater with a 160" diagonal/140" wide 16:9 screen with the first row of seating about 8 ft. away from the screen. That gives me a field of view of about 72 degrees in the first row. But, there are 3 rows for those who like to sit further away. Approx. 14 ft away for 2nd row, and 20 ft away for 3rd row.

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post #89 of 113 Old 01-22-2019, 07:54 PM
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Native Scope/CIH Screen (2.3x:1) - FOV 44-53deg = prime row between 2.99xH and 2.39xH

My screen is 2.35 130" and we sit against the wall 10-12 ft away.

I would actually prefer a bit bigger, or to sit a little closer (I like the FOX FOV at the theater), but that's the limits of my projector's throw, and the limits of where my wife wants the couch
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post #90 of 113 Old 01-23-2019, 10:45 AM
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For IMAX, it's the very last row.

For the 80' wide screen (standard theatre) about 2/3rds of the way back.

For any screen size at a theatre; I feel it's best to sit as close as you can and still be able to see from edge to edge without having to move my head. Anything closer is when I feel like I'm not taking in the whole experience.
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