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post #1 of 22 Old 04-10-2019, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Screen Size and Aspect Ratio - Dedicated Room

Hey Guys!

I've been slowly finishing my basement and building out my dedicated HT room and it's finally coming to an end. I originally had my eyes set on either a 77" OLED or a 86" 4k TV, but my interest has sparked on projectors. I pre-wired the room for both options luckily! As far as light control, it's in the basement, cement walls on 3 sides, and can be completely light controlled. The trick is, I've had some interesting eye surgeries to improve my vision, and they've left me with some tricky issues where my vision degrades (alot, especially in my right eye) when there is a heavy bright/dark contrast, so I usually watch movies with some lighting on to keep my eyesight from going crazy. Anywho, I've attached pics of the room as it currently stands. The lights in the drop down are on a dimmer and are controlled separately from the main ceiling lights. I'm hoping that keeping them on and somewhat dim will keep the picture from washing out and my eyes in check!

Room details... 11x17, 8ft ceilings. 2 rows of seats. Projector would be approx 15' from the screen. 7.2.4 setup (JBL 590's, 520c, PSA XV15's up front) with the front setup being L, Sub1, C, Sub2, R, so L&R will be directly under the drop down ceiling. You guys probably can't read the writing on the green tape, but the bottom 2 are the TV stand height, and then the center channel height. That leaves me with 100" between the drop downs and 61" from ceiling to the top of my center channel. My question is... do I just get the widest screen available to fit that space? The room will be 99% for movies, so a cinema-scope ratio screen would be the best and most likely most used, but my head says to just get the biggest screen (ie 16x9) to fit that space and just have extra white at the top and bottom if watching movies, and then I'd have the option for a larger 16x9 if I was to play a game or something. Orrrrr is that annoying (having visible white space the majority of the time) and in turn better to run a cinema-scope screen and sacrifice some screen size when viewing in 16x9?

I've found a few 110" 16x9 screens that will fit the space, and I believe like a 103-104" cinema-scope screen, all depending on frame thickness, etc. Main Listening Position on the front row of seats is approx 10ft. I'm also having a hard time seeing what makes some of the more $$$ screens worth their extra cost, so please change my mind if necessary. I'm not fixed to a tight budget, but I do like to be budget conscious. $500 seems like a good price for a higher end screen, but that definitely isn't the case. I only want to buy this once!

Projector wise, I'm still somewhat stuck on Epson or JVC (or possibly BenQ), but I'm learning! As I said before, I've always been a TV person, as they do great with the lights on, but the sheer size difference is intriguing, haha. I just hope I don't miss the clarity a TV can provide. Also, as a side not, I haven't been around a home projection setup for years, so I'm sure they have came leaps and bounds from what is (negative) stuck in my head. Thanks!
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-10-2019, 08:27 PM
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If you read the thread below about deciding on a 2:39 or 16:9 screen you will see the CIH camp are very adamant that a scope screen is the only way to go and 16:9 camp say its the only way to go. It all comes down to what you like and everyone else's opinions are useless. Get the projector first and tack some blackout cloth to the wall and watch for several weeks and see what floats your boat before even considering a screen. The big issue is if you do want a scope screen a projector with power lens memory is a must so this eliminates the BenQ's. If you do decide on a BenQ then 16:9 it is but you still need to decide on screen size. The biggest mistakes first time projector users make is too small a screen and lighting control. I see you have already wired for all the AV equipment down front and this makes sense for a TV but for projection the screen and LCR speakers should be the only thing on the front wall with AV equipment hidden elsewhere. It's most likely to late for you to change it just make sure you have some doors to shut out the panel lights from the equipment as they are distracting. You do appear to have your lighting under control although I would have painted the ceiling the same as the walls.

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post #3 of 22 Old 04-10-2019, 09:25 PM
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I would only go with Scope, if you are height limited. Some movies like Mission impossible and Aquaman have switching aspect ratios, which would be more jarring on a 2.35:1

At 11" wide, you are width limited. So I would suggest
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...dp/B00Y7XA3UI/

I bought a "Used like new in damaged packaging" and it was brand new. But obviously its the luck of the draw.
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-10-2019, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
If you read the thread below about deciding on a 2:39 or 16:9 screen you will see the CIH camp are very adamant that a scope screen is the only way to go and 16:9 camp say its the only way to go. It all comes down to what you like and everyone else's opinions are useless. Get the projector first and tack some blackout cloth to the wall and watch for several weeks and see what floats your boat before even considering a screen. The big issue is if you do want a scope screen a projector with power lens memory is a must so this eliminates the BenQ's. If you do decide on a BenQ then 16:9 it is but you still need to decide on screen size. The biggest mistakes first time projector users make is too small a screen and lighting control. I see you have already wired for all the AV equipment down front and this makes sense for a TV but for projection the screen and LCR speakers should be the only thing on the front wall with AV equipment hidden elsewhere. It's most likely to late for you to change it just make sure you have some doors to shut out the panel lights from the equipment as they are distracting. You do appear to have your lighting under control although I would have painted the ceiling the same as the walls.
Yeah that's what I've noticed from the threads I've been reading... The hard part is I'm not sure what I like since I really don't have any experience in projector land and have only watched on 16x9 TVs. I am hoping to make it into a store with a few setups I can check out.... I guess that's one disadvantage of living in the boonies. I hadn't thought of going the temporary way before, that's an interesting idea.

I wish I was able to put my AV equipment elsewhere, along with my subs a in different locations, but as you said, it's pretty much in a fixed state where it currently lies. Paint was apart of the WAF for the room to exist, so it is what it is for now!

You're right on the screen size tho, I'm pretty set on going with the largest screen or the largest TV that I can fit in the space.

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Originally Posted by tqlla View Post
I would only go with Scope, if you are height limited. Some movies like Mission impossible and Aquaman have switching aspect ratios, which would be more jarring on a 2.35:1

At 11" wide, you are width limited. So I would suggest
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...dp/B00Y7XA3UI/

I bought a "Used like new in damaged packaging" and it was brand new. But obviously its the luck of the draw.
I read something along these same lines earlier...where if I was width limited (which I am) then just go 16x9. That's so odd to me that certain films switch ratios...that would drive me insane.

So if I go with a 16x9 screen since. Width limited, do most just watch in 16x9 and call it a day or do they kick it to 2.35:1 and just deal with the bars?

Thanks for your help! I really need to see an 86" tv next to a 110" screen now haha. I'm sure my 2nd row would appreciate the larger screen!

I'll have to check out the used section as well, I've had good luck with stuff like that in the past as well. I was actually looking at Elite Screens. They had an Aeon thin border of each aspect ratio that would fit as well.
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post #5 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I hadn't thought of going the temporary way before, that's an interesting idea.

I read something along these same lines earlier...where if I was width limited (which I am) then just go 16x9. That's so odd to me that certain films switch ratios...that would drive me insane.

So if I go with a 16x9 screen since. Width limited, do most just watch in 16x9 and call it a day or do they kick it to 2.35:1 and just deal with the bars?

Thanks for your help! I really need to see an 86" tv next to a 110" screen now haha. I'm sure my 2nd row would appreciate the larger screen!
Doing the temporary...image on the wall... is a great way to start to get a feel for size or screen type (16:9 or 2.35:1)

On the aspect ratio changes, watch enough TV and you will see shows or even commercials doing it. If you watch enough, you probably don't even notice anymore.

Here my 70" with a very entry level projector. Easy to see that it is size for the win. It is what sold us on projectors vs going with a larger TV.
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3700/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 13/14 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I read something along these same lines earlier...where if I was width limited (which I am) then just go 16x9. That's so odd to me that certain films switch ratios...that would drive me insane.

So if I go with a 16x9 screen since. Width limited, do most just watch in 16x9 and call it a day or do they kick it to 2.35:1 and just deal with the bars?

Thanks for your help! I really need to see an 86" tv next to a 110" screen now haha. I'm sure my 2nd row would appreciate the larger screen!
Films switching ratio is not bad on 16:9. But its really jarring on a 2.35:1, since the 16x9 will switch to smaller when its supposed to be bigger, or it will project onto your ceiling.

I thought about masking, but I just deal with the bars(JVC is the best for this because of the blacks). Even if you have a 2.35:1 screen you will have bars, they just project outside of your screen so they hopefully arent that noticeable. Plus with switching aspect ratios, it becomes a pain.

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I hadn't thought of going the temporary way before, that's an interesting idea.

I read something along these same lines earlier...where if I was width limited (which I am) then just go 16x9. That's so odd to me that certain films switch ratios...that would drive me insane.

So if I go with a 16x9 screen since. Width limited, do most just watch in 16x9 and call it a day or do they kick it to 2.35:1 and just deal with the bars?

Thanks for your help! I really need to see an 86" tv next to a 110" screen now haha. I'm sure my 2nd row would appreciate the larger screen!
Doing the temporary...image on the wall... is a great way to start to get a feel for size or screen type (16:9 or 2.35:1)

On the aspect ratio changes, watch enough TV and you will see shows or even commercials doing it. If you watch enough, you probably don't even notice anymore.

Here my 70" with a very entry level projector. Easy to see that it is size for the win. It is what sold us on projectors vs going with a larger TV. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Dang haha that's quite the difference. Makes your 70" look like a baby! What size projector screen?

Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I read something along these same lines earlier...where if I was width limited (which I am) then just go 16x9. That's so odd to me that certain films switch ratios...that would drive me insane.

So if I go with a 16x9 screen since. Width limited, do most just watch in 16x9 and call it a day or do they kick it to 2.35:1 and just deal with the bars?

Thanks for your help! I really need to see an 86" tv next to a 110" screen now haha. I'm sure my 2nd row would appreciate the larger screen!
Films switching ratio is not bad on 16:9. But its really jarring on a 2.35:1, since the 16x9 will switch to smaller when its supposed to be bigger, or it will project onto your ceiling.

Just deal with the bars. Even if you have a 2.35:1 screen you will have bars, they just project outside of your screen so they hopefully arent that noticeable.
So it sounds like 16x9 is easier to deal with, and more than likely going to be the best option with my limited width.
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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No one is discussing IMAX enhanced is case it turns about to be a thing?
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post #9 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
Dang haha that's quite the difference. Makes your 70" look like a baby! What size projector screen?
Because it is just a wall and the thumbs are taken at different times with different projectors, the size varies but the first two Star Trek thumbs are right at 108" in width that translates to 118" 2.35:1 image.
http://displaywars.com/70-inch-16x9-vs-118-inch-235x1

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3700/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 13/14 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 09:00 AM
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So it sounds like 16x9 is easier to deal with, and more than likely going to be the best option with my limited width.
It is easier...it works just like a TV.... but it might not be best given the width/height, content watched, personal tastes, rows, equipment you have to work with. Great room by the way.


The best thing to do is try the projector. I did years ago (still had black construction paper up) using two projectors (Avengers) and experimented with 16:9 TV vs blu-ray 2.35:1. I found 95% of my content would be less with a scope box, so it wasn't a contest...given my 132" of width, at worst it was a wash on scope and so much more on everything else....but your room is different, so see what you like best just using the wall.
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https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...eap-build.html
Epson HC3700/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 13/14 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 5 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.

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post #11 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 12:33 PM
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No one is discussing IMAX enhanced is case it turns about to be a thing?
I’m talking about it but for the most part there are two schools of thought here. One is CIW and show your IMAX the same size as you show TV or flat movies and make scope movies smaller. The other group embraces CIH and feel there are currently too few movies in the big picture of things to worry about it and that all IMAX movies that were shown in scope theaters with a cropped version are considered scope safe those folks are ether masking off the top and bottom or programming it away with some kind of software.

There are just a very few doing CIH+IMAX or CIA or some other derivative of presentation like I am. Maybe if IMAX Enhanced really takes off we will see a change.

When you really give that extra immersion of IMAX over scope a chance I think most people will agree it is worth it.

Other than that it will make the people with large flat panel TVs happy.
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post #12 of 22 Old 04-11-2019, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
Because it is just a wall and the thumbs are taken at different times with different projectors, the size varies but the first two Star Trek thumbs are right at 108" in width that translates to 118" 2.35:1 image.
http://displaywars.com/70-inch-16x9-vs-118-inch-235x1
I noticed the one with light being on the wall, but the dark ones I couldn't tell. Looks great for being just on the wall!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
It is easier...it works just like a TV.... but it might not be best given the width/height, content watched, personal tastes, rows, equipment you have to work with. Great room by the way.


The best thing to do is try the projector. I did years ago (still had black construction paper up) using two projectors (Avengers) and experimented with 16:9 TV vs blu-ray 2.35:1. I found 95% of my content would be less with a scope box, so it wasn't a contest...given my 132" of width, at worst it was a wash on scope and so much more on everything else....but your room is different, so see what you like best just using the wall.
Thanks, it's been fun to design and see come to life given the dimensions we had to work with =)

So I got to thinking... I might actually be able to utilize the space under the drop downs for a scope screen since they aren't that tall, and in that case I have approx 135" of space to use up. But then my JBL 590's are about a foot or so wide each, so that puts me in the approx 110" wide range, assuming it fits height wise between my center channel and drop downs. I'll have to check when I go home tonight!

So it sounds like you chose 16x9 way back when, but then your newest photos on the wall are 2.35, are you considering going that route?

More than likely, we won't be watching much TV in this room, only movies. I don't want to rule out TV or games tho as it would be nice to have choices. Are the black bars really that noticeable? I see a lot of people talking about masking as well. I'm not about to get into the motorized stuff, although it looks awesome haha.
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post #13 of 22 Old 04-13-2019, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
I noticed the one with light being on the wall, but the dark ones I couldn't tell. Looks great for being just on the wall!



Thanks, it's been fun to design and see come to life given the dimensions we had to work with =)

So I got to thinking... I might actually be able to utilize the space under the drop downs for a scope screen since they aren't that tall, and in that case I have approx 135" of space to use up. But then my JBL 590's are about a foot or so wide each, so that puts me in the approx 110" wide range, assuming it fits height wise between my center channel and drop downs. I'll have to check when I go home tonight!

So it sounds like you chose 16x9 way back when, but then your newest photos on the wall are 2.35, are you considering going that route?

More than likely, we won't be watching much TV in this room, only movies. I don't want to rule out TV or games tho as it would be nice to have choices. Are the black bars really that noticeable? I see a lot of people talking about masking as well. I'm not about to get into the motorized stuff, although it looks awesome haha.
I was also wondering why you hadn't considered a wider scope screen. The 16x9 screen you are looking at is 8 feet wide, a CIH scope would be less than 11 feet at the same height. If you go with an acoustically transparent screen (spandex, or better) you could place your speakers behind and have a scope screen with no trade offs for your intended 16x9 size. You should definitely try that size on the wall before selecting a screen. With those towers you'd want a full false wall, but that is not very difficult if you have been doing the other work.
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post #14 of 22 Old 04-14-2019, 09:24 AM
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I’m talking about it but for the most part there are two schools of thought here. One is CIW and show your IMAX the same size as you show TV or flat movies and make scope movies smaller. The other group embraces CIH and feel there are currently too few movies in the big picture of things to worry about it and that all IMAX movies that were shown in scope theaters with a cropped version are considered scope safe those folks are ether masking off the top and bottom or programming it away with some kind of software.

There are just a very few doing CIH+IMAX or CIA or some other derivative of presentation like I am. Maybe if IMAX Enhanced really takes off we will see a change.

When you really give that extra immersion of IMAX over scope a chance I think most people will agree it is worth it.

Other than that it will make the people with large flat panel TVs happy.
I'm thinking about this now (mainly due to your comments). I'm entertaining the idea of a 4 way masking system with 2:1 ratio and 420cm screen width. This will allow larger 16:9 than my CIH would have, to accommodate the 'Netflix phenomenon', and things like Game of Thrones. It'll also allow full width scope in my room, as well as IMAX.

The other huge benefit is being able to choose a size based on material, ambient light, audience, quality, etc.

I'm going as big as I can and my logic is I will be able to accommodate any other screen size I would have picked, including making the screen smaller.
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-14-2019, 10:18 AM
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I'm thinking about this now (mainly due to your comments). I'm entertaining the idea of a 4 way masking system with 2:1 ratio and 420cm screen width. This will allow larger 16:9 than my CIH would have, to accommodate the 'Netflix phenomenon', and things like Game of Thrones. It'll also allow full width scope in my room, as well as IMAX.

The other huge benefit is being able to choose a size based on material, ambient light, audience, quality, etc.

I'm going as big as I can and my logic is I will be able to accommodate any other screen size I would have picked, including making the screen smaller.
I wont argue with that logic.

2.0:1 screen is a very nice compromise if that’s as tall as your room will allow. If the thing holding you back from a 1.77 IMAX is riser height for the second row and heads in the way of the bottom of the screen, I would still allow for a front row IMAX experience with screen height. Keep in mind also once you start thinking 4way masking that image height is now adjustable with offset. When you are watching scope and just are seated in the front row you can adjust the center speaker lower and drop the image if you want or do the same thing for IMAX.

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post #16 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Does masking make a huge difference even if the projector has very deep blacks (the the bars)?
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post #17 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
Does masking make a huge difference even if the projector has very deep blacks (the the bars)?
You will get different answers to that question depending on who you talk to.

First off the bars are distracting if you are a person that is distracted by them. Some people feel anything but the darkest black around the image draws the contrast out of how you see the image. Masking is nice and it is also something if done manually gets to be a pain to reset all the time.

In my case I don’t have a white screen mine is a dark 50% gray. Combine that with a good projector at doing blacks and a non reflective room with all the lights out and I can just barely perceive a gray bar.

Movies that change AR are impossible to mask and no one seems to be overly distracted by the gray bars.

Bud
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post #18 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
Does masking make a huge difference even if the projector has very deep blacks (the the bars)?

Yes, I would say it does. No matter how good your blacks are from the projector, they're not going to be as good as black velvet.
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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This conversation comes up regularly (Forum Search is your friend). Most rooms are "width challenged". If you watch a lot of modern Blu-rays and can accommodate a 2.35:1 Scope screen, the it is the way to go, INMO.
When ever I come across this discussion, I include our solution ("Thanks" to Craig Peer). We use two screens. Both are electric drop. One is 16x9 for HD Sports and the other is 2.35:1 for movies. Combined with a projector with "one toggle" lens memory, this allows you to view the image in it's native format with NO BLACK BARS. Relative to the cost of a HT set up, screens are relatively cheap. If your budget allows for it, then go for it
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehknics View Post
Does masking make a huge difference even if the projector has very deep blacks (the the bars)?
I've found for myself that black bars above and below the image are more distracting than black bars on the sides, perhaps because of the fact that our peripheral vision has less acuity? Even so, provided the content itself is large enough black bars on any portion of the screen are not significantly distracting to me. Occasionally I have to zoom out a scope movie to read subtitles that are in the black bar area on the bottom and after a few minutes I tend to forget about the bars.

ETA: I have a dark room (black/gray paint) and a projector with good blacks (JVC RS2000)

Last edited by mattztt; 04-15-2019 at 01:35 PM. Reason: typo
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post #21 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
This conversation comes up regularly (Forum Search is your friend). Most rooms are "width challenged". If you watch a lot of modern Blu-rays and can accommodate a 2.35:1 Scope screen, the it is the way to go, INMO.
When ever I come across this discussion, I include our solution ("Thanks" to Craig Peer). We use two screens. Both are electric drop. One is 16x9 for HD Sports and the other is 2.35:1 for movies. Combined with a projector with "one toggle" lens memory, this allows you to view the image in it's native format with NO BLACK BARS. Relative to the cost of a HT set up, screens are relatively cheap. If your budget allows for it, then go for it

Still one of the best things I've done in my theater ( building a closet for the projector is the other one ).
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post #22 of 22 Old 04-15-2019, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Still one of the best things I've done in my theater ( building a closet for the projector is the other one ).
Craig, we could not thank you enough
It's amazing to me that more of our AVS brothers have not adopted this simple solution. Especially with the prevalence of JVC and Sony projectors (lens memory). We had only a 16x9 screen for years, and had no idea what we were missing. Adding the "Scope" screen literally opened up the vistas of the visual experience.
Back in the day, 2.35:1 electric drop screens from Stewart or DaLite cost a pretty penny. Those days are no longer. Elite and others make quality products for a "reasonable" (read cheap) amount.
In fact, we have a 125" 2.35:1 Elite Cinetension (the largest that would fit). I have thought about getting a 16x9 at about 120" (largest that would fit) to replace our current 110" 16x9. However, our 110" 16x9 is a DaLite Cosmopolitan Electrol in HP 2.6. They are almost impossible to replace, so I've resisted.
INMO, a principal advantage of two screens is that you can have the largest possible image that will fit your room. HT is all about immersion. Size matters. Plus NO BLACK BARS
Thanks again Craig!
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