Screens at CEDIA 2019 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 17Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 44 Old 09-11-2019, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Screens at CEDIA 2019

CEDIA Expo 2019 begins on Thursday, 9/12. I'll post pictures and comments regarding projection screens at the show in this thread.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
Garfield9988 likes this.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 44 Old 09-12-2019, 05:12 AM
Member
 
evanft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Are we expecting any big innovations or new tech? I imagine we'll see some stuff with "8k" attached to it for marketing, but not a lot else.

JVC RS-520, Elite Screens 100" AcousticPro UHD electric
Klipsch RP-8000F, RP-450C, 2xRP-240S, 2xRP-402S, 2xSVS PB-1000
Onkyo TX-NR585/HDFury Linker/MiniDSP 2x4 HD
Panasonic UB820/PC/PS3/PS4 Pro/Switch/WiiU/Xbox One X
Logitech Harmony Hub
evanft is offline  
post #3 of 44 Old 09-12-2019, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
Are we expecting any big innovations or new tech? I imagine we'll see some stuff with "8k" attached to it for marketing, but not a lot else.
the world of screens seems to be about incremental improvements, cost reductions for certain features, and things like masking systems and wireless motorized stuff these days.

But, the UST category is growing so maybe something there...

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
A quick stop by the Stewart booth...

Luxus toller is a new mounting system... Field servicable,, servicable. Can be reverse rolled... Default motor is Alexa compatible etc.

Even high ALR screen is micro-perf!

New G4 Studiotek 130 has reduced sparkle, shown on Balon.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #5 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Seymour-Screen Excellence has plenty of presence at CEDIA 2019 including presence in the Klispch, PCM, Trinnov and Wisdom Audio demo rooms.

I chatted with Chris Seymour about the company's largest masking system yet. I have a press release I'll get to that soon...

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #6 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Screen Innovations showed a variety of motorized screen both powered and cordless.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #7 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Not really a screen per se, but LED video walls are big and bright and beautiful. Samsung's The Wall is not the only offering out there....



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #8 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Sony says at this show it's working on how to make CLED into a consumer product. 220", looks incredible.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #9 of 44 Old 09-13-2019, 02:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Still no EPV Darkstar9 Motorized? ;[
bdht is online now  
post #10 of 44 Old 09-14-2019, 05:59 AM
Newbie
 
Tango001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Screen Innovations showed a variety of motorized screen both powered and cordless.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
If you have a chance please ask how big they are going to be offering their UST on the solo pro/solo pro2 and when they will be available. Thanks!
Tango001 is offline  
post #11 of 44 Old 09-14-2019, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango001 View Post
If you have a chance please ask how big they are going to be offering their UST on the solo pro/solo pro2 and when they will be available. Thanks!
Based on conversations at the show, looks like UST on Solo 2 Pro maxes out at 100" for now.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #12 of 44 Old 09-16-2019, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Mark Henninger
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 433 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9083 Post(s)
Liked: 16029
Full press release from Stewart:


Stewart Filmscreen Debuts New Balón Edge Projection Screen With a Sleek, Modern-Looking Ultra-Thin Frame

Balón Edge Wall-Mount Screen Boasts Best-in-Class Fabric and Sizing Options, Elegant Framing, and Low Profile for Residential and Pro AV Installations

TORRANCE, Calif. — Stewart Filmscreen, the only two-time Academy Award®-winning manufacturer of professional projection screens and reference-standard projection screen materials for the audiovisual industry, today introduced the all-new Balón Edge. This new addition to the Balón series combines the best projection screen surface available with an ultra-thin frame, providing a minimalistic black border finish.

“The new Balón Edge is the perfect wall-mount screen for those who want a thinly framed projection screen,” said Mary Stewart, CEO and owner of Stewart Filmscreen. “Each Balón Edge projection screen is handmade to match your specific viewing needs and made to order for your particular venue. You know you are getting the best when you choose Stewart Filmscreen, and you’ll know this as soon as you open the box. No other company builds to the exacting quality of Stewart, and no other screen company has the breadth of screen fabrics that we do.”

Both a residential and a pro AV projection screen, the Balón Edge is ideal anywhere two-piece projection is needed. Like the original Balón Borderless, this new screen can be custom-fabricated in any size, up to 16 feet in image width — all seamless — and in any aspect ratio. The Balón Edge features a 0.4-inch border that either can be wrapped in luxurious, Velux light-deadening material that is perfect for overscan light absorption or kept minimalist as a bare-metal painted frame. Both the Balón Borderless and Balón Edge have a one-inch frame depth, keeping the screen snug to the wall.

The Balón series video projection screens feature impeccable fit and finish and offer the same unlimited fabric options customers have come to expect from Stewart Filmscreen. All of Stewart Filmscreen’s 16K+ flexible front projection screen fabrics are available for Balón Edge along with MicroPerf X2 THX Ultra and CinemaPerf screen perforation for sound transparency. LED lighting is available as an option.

The base price (MSRP) for Balón Edge is $2,913. The screen is delivered carefully rolled up in a box and packaged with the EZ Mount mounting brackets, hardware and all the instructions needed to assemble the screen. Like all Stewart Filmscreen projection screens, Balón Edge is easy to assemble and built to last.

More information is available at www.stewartfilmscreen.com.





Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum
imagic is offline  
post #13 of 44 Old 09-16-2019, 09:52 AM
Member
 
evanft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 34
This high end screen companies don't really do anything for me. I mean, if you don't have some special use case (high-gain ALR, UST, etc.), then any differences in material are either going to be imperceptible or can be compensated for with calibration.

JVC RS-520, Elite Screens 100" AcousticPro UHD electric
Klipsch RP-8000F, RP-450C, 2xRP-240S, 2xRP-402S, 2xSVS PB-1000
Onkyo TX-NR585/HDFury Linker/MiniDSP 2x4 HD
Panasonic UB820/PC/PS3/PS4 Pro/Switch/WiiU/Xbox One X
Logitech Harmony Hub

Last edited by evanft; 09-16-2019 at 10:27 AM.
evanft is offline  
post #14 of 44 Old 09-16-2019, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
avsBuddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Same here. Don’t see value in buying $1.5k+ screen. Resale value is close to nil. Wish there was something mid range, around $500-$600 mark for a 120”. Something slightly better than Silver Ticket in white or gray 4K material.
avsBuddy is offline  
post #15 of 44 Old 09-16-2019, 02:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
This high end screen companies don't really do anything for me. I mean, if you don't have some special use case (high-gain ALR, UST, etc.), then any differences in material are either going to be imperceptible or can be compensated for with calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsBuddy View Post
Same here. Don’t see value in buying $1.5k+ screen. Resale value is close to nil. Wish there was something mid range, around $500-$600 mark for a 120”. Something slightly better than Silver Ticket in white or gray 4K material.
I don't know guys, have you seen artifact free screens before? Get some samples of Seymour AVs Glacial White, Stewarts Neve and Snomatte, Da Lite's HD Progressive / Parallax. The difference between these materials and the standard pvc material(elite cinewhite, silver ticket white, etc) is drastic. The screen disappears, detail is perfect, the image is perfectly uniform. I have an Elunevision 100EL(elite cinewhite etc) and an XY Black Crystal. The 100EL has a sheen from the gain and the Black Crystal has sparkle. Both screen materials are visible under any moderate to high apl scenes, especially panning or solid colors. Both screens hotspot. The sparkle slightly obscures film grain or almost imparts a grainyness on noise free content. Now for the price, yes, these lower cost screens are very good, but artifact free materials are getting more affordable as well and becoming more and more important with more detailed content.

Elunevisions fixed frame should be close to artifact free, though I don't have samples, just going off photos from users here on AVS. That cost for a 120" is probably around $800. Or Seymours Glacial White is about $1,200 for a material you can get free samples of. I've been told to look into Severtson Screens as well but haven't had the chance to do so yet.
Craig Peer and rjmcinnis like this.
bdht is online now  
post #16 of 44 Old 09-16-2019, 10:07 PM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 99
@imagic Did you happen to see the EPV Darkstar UST Max? Curious if it was mostly artifact free like the darkstar 9. Very curious now that they have this if theyll have a darkstar 9 motorized.

https://epvscreens.com/product/dark-star-max-ust-fr/

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/epv-screens-makes-alr-awesome
bdht is online now  
post #17 of 44 Old 09-17-2019, 06:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,233
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3733 Post(s)
Liked: 2965
Projection screens conform to the price/performance curve just like other manufactured products. The best premium screens that cost the most eliminate the smallest flaws that are visible in even the best economy screens. The closer to best possible performance the steeper the rise in price. Most people look for their own personal sweet spot on the curve where they get satisfactory performance at a price they're comfortable with paying, i.e. best value.

Craig Peer likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #18 of 44 Old 09-17-2019, 10:19 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,156
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6866 Post(s)
Liked: 8102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
I don't know guys, have you seen artifact free screens before? Get some samples of Seymour AVs Glacial White, Stewarts Neve and Snomatte, Da Lite's HD Progressive / Parallax. The difference between these materials and the standard pvc material(elite cinewhite, silver ticket white, etc) is drastic. The screen disappears, detail is perfect, the image is perfectly uniform. I have an Elunevision 100EL(elite cinewhite etc) and an XY Black Crystal. The 100EL has a sheen from the gain and the Black Crystal has sparkle. Both screen materials are visible under any moderate to high apl scenes, especially panning or solid colors. Both screens hotspot. The sparkle slightly obscures film grain or almost imparts a grainyness on noise free content. Now for the price, yes, these lower cost screens are very good, but artifact free materials are getting more affordable as well and becoming more and more important with more detailed content.

Elunevisions fixed frame should be close to artifact free, though I don't have samples, just going off photos from users here on AVS. That cost for a 120" is probably around $800. Or Seymours Glacial White is about $1,200 for a material you can get free samples of. I've been told to look into Severtson Screens as well but haven't had the chance to do so yet.
It took me years of trying cheaper screens to finally wind up with Stewart screens that I feel provide a great picture with minimal screen artifacts. 4K projection requires a very good screen to look it's best.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC RS4500 DCR Lens Lumagen Alita 2.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	381.9 KB
ID:	2617034   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC RS4500 DCR Lens Lumagen Alita 12.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	539.3 KB
ID:	2617036   Click image for larger version

Name:	JVC RS4500 DCR Lens Lumagen Alita 32.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	452.7 KB
ID:	2617038  
Craig Peer is offline  
post #19 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 12:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Alita pictures
I have to remind myself when people mention Alita or gits not to start rambling about Gantz:O or Red Line, about wanting an Alita budget for a live action horror of Devilman, Berserk, Claymore, or Blame. Can you imagine? and with a death/black metal soundtrack! oooo At least Ive got The Thing and From Beyond xD Getting these big budget manga movies is a real blast though. Aaand I rambled, and its off topic sorry 😕
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20170913_171721_1568791774723.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	1.46 MB
ID:	2617056   Click image for larger version

Name:	589ecc0be06d3da106b5408924ac3236_1568791780617.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	294.4 KB
ID:	2617058   Click image for larger version

Name:	image_1568791798715.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	361.3 KB
ID:	2617060   Click image for larger version

Name:	17_1568791879212.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	152.5 KB
ID:	2617062  
bdht is online now  
post #20 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 09:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,793
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Liked: 1063
To show the other extreme of the spectrum to @Craig Peer I haven’t embraced 4k yet ($500 DLP) and always have made my own screen surface with some form of DIY. Here is my last mostly artifact free screen made from 4 sheets of drywall screwed to a stud wall and skim coated with drywall compound and sanded flat as a pancake, then roller painted with $20 of over the counter latex paint. The images are OTA TV from an antenna in the attic.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8698.JPG
Views:	34
Size:	676.5 KB
ID:	2617192   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8676.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	849.8 KB
ID:	2617194  
rossandwendy and rjmcinnis like this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #21 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 10:37 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,156
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6866 Post(s)
Liked: 8102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
To show the other extreme of the spectrum to @Craig Peer I haven’t embraced 4k yet ($500 DLP) and always have made my own screen surface with some form of DIY. Here is my last mostly artifact free screen made from 4 sheets of drywall screwed to a stud wall and skim coated with drywall compound and sanded flat as a pancake, then roller painted with $20 of over the counter latex paint. The images are OTA TV from an antenna in the attic.
Nice, but in all my years of commercial construction - and we did a lot of smoothwall drywall in restaurants - it's pretty hard to get drywall as smooth as a screen like a Stewart. You might not see imperfection in still shots, but I bet you will when the video pans sideways. Also, I need to use electric screens, so there's that. 4K will show even more screen flaws. A fixed Stewart Cima Neve screen isn't that expensive from a good dealer ( street price ). Certainly not compared to a good 4K projector !
rjmcinnis likes this.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #22 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 10:50 AM
Newbie
 
wahoospiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
@imagic Did you happen to see the EPV Darkstar UST Max? Curious if it was mostly artifact free like the darkstar 9. Very curious now that they have this if theyll have a darkstar 9 motorized.

https://epvscreens.com/product/dark-star-max-ust-fr/

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...es-alr-awesome
I think the EPV UST mechanism is identical (judged based solely on the pics posted) to the vididstorm which has not gotten raves. Not sure about the screen material though. Emailed EPV for clarity but have not received a response. Compare

https://epvscreens.com/product/dark-star-max-ust-fr/

to

https://www.amazon.com/VIVIDSTORM-Mo...07VHYN72P?th=1

Please set me straight if I'm wrong.
wahoospiff is offline  
post #23 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 10:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoospiff View Post
Please set me straight if I'm wrong.
If you look closely the housing and tensioning look different. Theres also a $4-5,000 difference in price.
bdht is online now  
post #24 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 11:09 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,793
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Liked: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Nice, but in all my years of commercial construction - and we did a lot of smoothwall drywall in restaurants - it's pretty hard to get drywall as smooth as a screen like a Stewart. You might not see imperfection in still shots, but I bet you will when the video pans sideways. Also, I need to use electric screens, so there's that. 4K will show even more screen flaws. A fixed Stewart Cima Neve screen isn't that expensive from a good dealer ( street price ). Certainly not compared to a good 4K projector !
My point was more that in the discussion you quoted it talked about so many of these modern screens that show artifacts. While these screens are the latest technologies they are trying to solve problems associated with less than perfect rooms in most cases and even people buy them and stick them in perfect rooms the artifacts remain. The latest being peoples expectations for HDR performance and needing the brighter abilities. Screens like most of the Stewart line and for that matter my DIY try and stay pretty close to that Lambertine light reflectance ideal and assuming a very good room in terms of light reflectance and admittance.

I have always written about the influence of screen image motion and lack of identifying artifacts when the image moves. Even how a screen with the slightest “warm spotting” that will never be noticed in a still image will remove the realism of 3D in a fast pan. Once that realism is gone the brain identifies the screen as a flat surface with a 2D image on it. Our brain picks up on so much in terms of shadows and shading in determining reality.

It is really a case of simplicity being the best IMO. Stewart does this as good as anyone out there combining a near perfect surface with the least amount of enhancements.

The result being when done right the screen isn’t a surface, but rather an open window you look thru.

Unfortunately so much of the screen world now is trying to make more out of less and improve screens to allow them to compete (not so well) in TV environments.

Companies like Stewart solved most all the problems for 1080, 4k, and even 8k and more a long time ago, given proper presentation. So when people go to a trade show and look they say oh there is Stewart dragging out the same stuff again. It is because it is pretty much perfect.
Mike Garrett and rjmcinnis like this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #25 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 11:31 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 16,156
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6866 Post(s)
Liked: 8102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
My point was more that in the discussion you quoted it talked about so many of these modern screens that show artifacts. While these screens are the latest technologies they are trying to solve problems associated with less than perfect rooms in most cases and even people buy them and stick them in perfect rooms the artifacts remain. The latest being peoples expectations for HDR performance and needing the brighter abilities. Screens like most of the Stewart line and for that matter my DIY try and stay pretty close to that Lambertine light reflectance ideal and assuming a very good room in terms of light reflectance and admittance.

I have always written about the influence of screen image motion and lack of identifying artifacts when the image moves. Even how a screen with the slightest “warm spotting” that will never be noticed in a still image will remove the realism of 3D in a fast pan. Once that realism is gone the brain identifies the screen as a flat surface with a 2D image on it. Our brain picks up on so much in terms of shadows and shading in determining reality.

It is really a case of simplicity being the best IMO. Stewart does this as good as anyone out there combining a near perfect surface with the least amount of enhancements.

The result being when done right the screen isn’t a surface, but rather an open window you look thru.

Unfortunately so much of the screen world now is trying to make more out of less and improve screens to allow them to compete (not so well) in TV environments.

Companies like Stewart solved most all the problems for 1080, 4k, and even 8k and more a long time ago, given proper presentation. So when people go to a trade show and look they say oh there is Stewart dragging out the same stuff again. It is because it is pretty much perfect.
We are going to have to agree to agree on all points. There is no magic screen that makes watching projection in a bright room perfect. Make the room perfect - best thing I ever did !
bud16415 likes this.
Craig Peer is offline  
post #26 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 08:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,251
Mentioned: 238 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12333 Post(s)
Liked: 9959
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanft View Post
This high end screen companies don't really do anything for me. I mean, if you don't have some special use case (high-gain ALR, UST, etc.), then any differences in material are either going to be imperceptible or can be compensated for with calibration.
From this comment, I can tell that you have never compared the image of an ST100 with these cheaper screens. There is certainly a difference and calibration can't compensate for the differences. Most of the cheaper screens have a lot of color shift. So when you calibrate, you place the meter in the middle of the screen and calibrate color for that spot, but calibration color will be off for the rest of the screen. Next is smoothness. I have yet to see a cheaper screen that is as smooth and texture free as ST100. You can argue that the difference is not worth it to you, but there certainly are differences.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #27 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 08:30 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Mike Garrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26,251
Mentioned: 238 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12333 Post(s)
Liked: 9959
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Garrett
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Nice, but in all my years of commercial construction - and we did a lot of smoothwall drywall in restaurants - it's pretty hard to get drywall as smooth as a screen like a Stewart. You might not see imperfection in still shots, but I bet you will when the video pans sideways. Also, I need to use electric screens, so there's that. 4K will show even more screen flaws. A fixed Stewart Cima Neve screen isn't that expensive from a good dealer ( street price ). Certainly not compared to a good 4K projector !
Yep, I was a commercial GC for 20 years. Nearly impossible to get drywall perfectly flat.
Craig Peer likes this.
Mike Garrett is offline  
post #28 of 44 Old 09-18-2019, 09:11 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ericglo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Just below the US in South Florida
Posts: 11,696
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3532 Post(s)
Liked: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Nice, but in all my years of commercial construction - and we did a lot of smoothwall drywall in restaurants - it's pretty hard to get drywall as smooth as a screen like a Stewart. You might not see imperfection in still shots, but I bet you will when the video pans sideways. Also, I need to use electric screens, so there's that. 4K will show even more screen flaws. A fixed Stewart Cima Neve screen isn't that expensive from a good dealer ( street price ). Certainly not compared to a good 4K projector !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Yep, I was a commercial GC for 20 years. Nearly impossible to get drywall perfectly flat.
I was never in commercial construction, but I did stay at Holiday Inn Express and I still couldn't get drywall flat and smooth.

I did make some decent DIY screens in the past, but I do like my Stewart screen. It is a fixed screen that ended up not costing a lot. I have thought about replacing the material at some point, but it is fine for right now.

The only screen I haven't liked from Stewart is their AT lineup. Never liked perf. V6 and Enlightor are superior IMO.
Craig Peer likes this.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
Ericglo is offline  
post #29 of 44 Old 09-19-2019, 06:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,233
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3733 Post(s)
Liked: 2965
Does anyone really believe the fine differences between good and excellent screens are going to show up in tiny compressed jpeg images of big screen movies viewed on a computer monitor or smart phone? Anyone who isn't familiar with some of the subtle differences that differentiate screen performance can educate themselves by reading AccuCal AV's detailed projection screen material report. With all due respect to the dedicated AV enthusiasts on this forum, Jeff Meier is a veteran AV pro and ISF calibrator trusted by Hollywood studios to have an eye for fine detail.

accucalav.com/wp-content/uploads/accucal_front_projection_screen_report.pdf
rjmcinnis likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #30 of 44 Old 09-19-2019, 07:14 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,793
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2110 Post(s)
Liked: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Does anyone really believe the fine differences between good and excellent screens are going to show up in tiny compressed jpeg images of big screen movies viewed on a computer monitor or smart phone? Anyone who isn't familiar with some of the subtle differences that differentiate screen performance can educate themselves by reading AccuCal AV's detailed projection screen material report. With all due respect to the dedicated AV enthusiasts on this forum, Jeff Meier is a veteran AV pro and ISF calibrator trusted by Hollywood studios to have an eye for fine detail.

accucalav.com/wp-content/uploads/accucal_front_projection_screen_report.pdf
I certainly agree with that and have many times posted that screen shots are nothing more than a conversation piece. They do a much better job of showing off the image in a poor room / screen / projector than they would do comparing a great image say on a DIY screen to an excellent image on a high end commercial screen. That’s the reason I didn’t waste any time in taking my screen shots and just used my iPhone and took the picture of OTA content.

There is also the issue of visual acuity with projectors and screens and all the digital calibration we can go thru with tweaking that last drop of perfection out of a theater.

Over the last year I have read so many threads where someone with a lot of funds will buy a super expensive reference theater quality HT projector and place it in a less than perfect room and then search thru dozens of screens intended to correct for the rooms short comings. They know deep down that they have been told some fantastic 1,000,000:1 CR is out there to be had.

It’s no different than the guy that gets his muscle car tuned and measured on a dyno and told he went from 650 hp to 662 hp like he will ever know the difference in real life with his street tires on the car.

In the end we all go by our eyes and how good our vision is. Not just focus but how we perceive light and color. Our reference is how we see the real world and how that compares to the image. If a person is convinced they could be looking at reality that should be good enough.

As a side note yesterday I had an hour to kill and I wondered around best buy mostly looking at the amazing flat panel displays all playing the highest quality inputs of the most splendid content. Pure eye candy to say the least. As amazing as they were and as much as I enjoyed looking at them, none of them convinced me I was looking thru an open window at reality on the other side. They all seem like I was looking at a liquid image under a sheet of perfect glass. The detail was amazing but then again it didn’t seem at all film-like.
Dave in Green and Craig Peer like this.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Screens

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off