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-   -   Screen Recommendation for JVC X790R (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/3102842-screen-recommendation-jvc-x790r.html)

JonnyVee 11-17-2019 07:30 AM

Screen Recommendation for JVC X790R
 
After upgrading my projector to JVC x790 I’m Looking to upgrade my 120” Silver Ticket white screen. I’m in a light controlled room with flat black paint and dark carpet. Projector throw is 12.5” and viewing distance is 9’.

At this point I’m looking at Stewart Neve 123” (not sure if I can fit the extra couple inches though), Stewart StudioTek 130, and SeymourAV Glacier White. The SeymourAV screen looks to be almost half the cost, which is considerable - especially since I have US to CDN exchange to consider.

Any other suggestions for a moderate gain screen?

Bellaseni 11-17-2019 07:39 AM

Don’t have any recommendations because I only owned one screen and that is a Da lite High power screen 2.4 gain 133 inch.

Getting a RS440U’s soon . But always wondered what other screens look like

markmon1 11-17-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellaseni (Post 58833194)
Don’t have any recommendations because I only owned one screen and that is a Da lite High power screen 2.4 gain 133 inch.

Getting a RS440U’s soon . But always wondered what other screens look like

Sounds like that screen is super hard to find and people love it so I'd take good care of that screen as nothing like it is made any longer.

skylarlove1999 11-17-2019 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58833166)
After upgrading my projector to JVC x790 I’m Looking to upgrade my 120” Silver Ticket white screen. I’m in a light controlled room with flat black paint and dark carpet. Projector throw is 12.5” and viewing distance is 9’.



At this point I’m looking at Stewart Neve 123” (not sure if I can fit the extra couple inches though), Stewart StudioTek 130, and SeymourAV Glacier White. The SeymourAV screen looks to be almost half the cost, which is considerable - especially since I have US to CDN exchange to consider.



Any other suggestions for a moderate gain screen?

I have the Seymour AV Glacier white screen in 120 inches. Black velvet dedicated room. I love my screen. Much better image than my original Elite white screen. I would look into this screen as well.

https://hometheaterreview.com/elunev...reen-reviewed/

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

JonnyVee 11-17-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58833586)
I have the Seymour AV Glacier white screen in 120 inches. Black velvet dedicated room. I love my screen. Much better image than my original Elite white screen. I would look into this screen as well.

https://hometheaterreview.com/elunev...reen-reviewed/

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Thank for suggesting. I’ve considered Elunevision as well. However, their Reference Studio 4K 125” is similar in price to the Seymour AV Precision. I also don’t care for the wall mounting on the Elune screens - Its the same brackets as the ST.

Dominic Chan 11-17-2019 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58833166)
After upgrading my projector to JVC x790 I’m Looking to upgrade my 120” Silver Ticket white screen.

What aspect of the screen are you looking to improve?

rekbones 11-17-2019 09:57 PM

What are the issues with the current screen? In a batcave room like that the screen should be invisible unless there are flaws in it. I would put my extra $ in professionally calibrating the projector to your current screen as I think this would improve PQ more then the cost of a new screen that may only marginal improve PQ.

JonnyVee 11-18-2019 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 58836360)
What aspect of the screen are you looking to improve?

That’s my dilemma. I keep reading that Silver Ticket screens are nice starter screens, but there are noticeable improvements once you jump to a Seymour or Stewart. I’m not entirely convinced to be honest and may just stick with the ST for now. I think the biggest driver is getting a new screen that has a slightly higher gain for HDR. I like a bright image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rekbones (Post 58836374)
What are the issues with the current screen? In a batcave room like that the screen should be invisible unless there are flaws in it. I would put my extra $ in professionally calibrating the projector to your current screen as I think this would improve PQ more then the cost of a new screen that may only marginal improve PQ.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I have my own calibration gear and the JVCs have an Autocal feature that I also use. I’m no pro, but I’m 90-95% there.

Dominic Chan 11-18-2019 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58836966)
That’s my dilemma. I keep reading that Silver Ticket screens are nice starter screens, but there are noticeable improvements once you jump to a Seymour or Stewart. I’m not entirely convinced to be honest and may just stick with the ST for now. I think the biggest driver is getting a new screen that has a slightly higher gain for HDR. I like a bright image.

I also have a Silver Ticket screen and started with their matte white screen. I then switched to their 1.3 gain raw material and found it smoother, 12% brighter and more neutral. The standard 1.1 gain matte white screen has a very slight blue tint (noted by some reviewers but can be calibrated out). The 1.3 gain material is only available raw so you need to form the pockets for the mounting rods.

The best part is the cost - only $60 USD plus shipping, for a 62”x112” piece:

https://www.silverticketproducts.com...tr-62wmaterial

I have done measurements of all their screen materials and you can see the results here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58823388

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58732120

m0j0 11-18-2019 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58833166)
After upgrading my projector to JVC x790 I’m Looking to upgrade my 120” Silver Ticket white screen. I’m in a light controlled room with flat black paint and dark carpet. Projector throw is 12.5” and viewing distance is 9’.

At this point I’m looking at Stewart Neve 123” (not sure if I can fit the extra couple inches though), Stewart StudioTek 130, and SeymourAV Glacier White. The SeymourAV screen looks to be almost half the cost, which is considerable - especially since I have US to CDN exchange to consider.

Any other suggestions for a moderate gain screen?


I went from the Silver Ticket 110" 1.1 gain white screen to a Stewart Cima Neve 115" 2.35:1 screen and the improvement was considerable. The screen is brighter, has better black levels and is considerably sharper, with no visible screen texture. I highly recommend this screen!

Dominic Chan 11-18-2019 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m0j0 (Post 58837924)
I went from the Silver Ticket 110" 1.1 gain white screen to a Stewart Cima Neve 115" 2.35:1 screen and the improvement was considerable. The screen is brighter, has better black levels and is considerably sharper, with no visible screen texture. I highly recommend this screen!

A screen cannot make black levels darker while making the white brighter, unless the black floor is limited by room reflection and the screen is directional (rejects light from the reflections more than direct light from the projector).

m0j0 11-18-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 58837964)
A screen cannot make black levels darker, unless the black floor is limited by room reflection and the screen is directional (rejects light from the reflections more than direct light from the projector).


I don't know what to tell you. My perception of the black levels are that they are improved after the swap out of the screens.

Craig Peer 11-18-2019 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 58837964)
A screen cannot make black levels darker while making the white brighter, unless the black floor is limited by room reflection and the screen is directional (rejects light from the reflections more than direct light from the projector).

The Cima Neve has been measured closer to 1.25 gain. Maybe the Silver Ticket he had is really closer to unity gain. That could mean the Silver Ticket sent light in all directions, lighting up his walls and ceiling, and the Cima Neve sent more light back towards the projector, washing out blacks less. Or, blacks just look darker since it's a brighter screen.

Dominic Chan 11-18-2019 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Peer (Post 58839372)
The Cima Neve has been measured closer to 1.25 gain. Maybe the Silver Ticket he had is really closer to unity gain. That could mean the Silver Ticket sent light in all directions, lighting up his walls and ceiling, and the Cima Neve sent more light back towards the projector, washing out blacks less. Or, blacks just look darker since it's a brighter screen.

That’s exact what I meant by “unless the black floor is limited by room reflection” in my previous post.

Craig Peer 11-18-2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 58839408)
That’s exact what I meant by “unless the black floor is limited by room reflection” in my previous post.

Ultimately if someone likes their screen better, that's what counts !

avsBuddy 11-18-2019 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58833586)
I have the Seymour AV Glacier white screen in 120 inches. Black velvet dedicated room. I love my screen. Much better image than my original Elite white screen. I would look into this screen as well.

https://hometheaterreview.com/elunev...reen-reviewed/

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I like Glacier White PS but it does show some texture on 4k material when compared to SF Cima Neve. Since my light controlled room is not a complete bat-cave, I wonder if going with a white screen will wash out image during bright scenes. Seymour Matinee Wide is also great screen under my consideration. With its ALR properties, Matinee Wide does better with not reflecting light all over my room but it does darken overall image. With HDR being one of the main draws of 4K, I really hate loosing my brightness especially since my JVC is already great at reproducing blacks. Interestingly, with 3D content, Matinee Wide looks just as bright as white screens! However, majority of my watching is bound to be 2D and either Glacier White or Cima are brighter.

Decisions, decisions.

JonnyVee 11-19-2019 06:07 PM

Thank you for all the suggestions. Think I’ll be going with a Seymour GW.

skylarlove1999 11-19-2019 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58845920)
Thank you for all the suggestions. Think I’ll be going with a Seymour GW.

For what it is worth I have not seen texture on any scenes. Glacier White went PS( perfectly smooth) a little over two years ago so maybe people reporting seeing texture have the older screen material. I love my Glacier White PS screen.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Solarium 12-19-2019 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyVee (Post 58845920)
Thank you for all the suggestions. Think I’ll be going with a Seymour GW.

I'm in the same dilemma as you, have the X790R, but I don't have a full light controlled room, with white walls and not treated, it's a normal living room with reflections and not a dedicated theater room. I was wondering what pushed you over to get the Seymour GW? I see that amazon is selling the Precision version much cheaper than the Premier version as well, which version did you end up getting? Is the Premier's thicker blacker frame in my non-fully light controlled room worth the $500 increase?

These are my stats:
JVC X790R
135-138 inch screen
~14 feet from projector w/ 1.98 zoom.
~15 feet viewing distance
~11 feet ceiling with about a 2 feet drop using mount.
Living room with wooden floors, furniture, coffee table that's reflective, white walls/ceiling, blackout curtain to block from the rest of the house (but the light leaks from the top and bottom and sides a bit in the day).

JonnyVee 12-19-2019 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solarium (Post 58978532)
I was wondering what pushed you over to get the Seymour GW?

$$$$ ... The Stewart is really really really expensive up here in Canada as you have to go through a dealer. I'm also holding off until the spring.

filmgeek47 12-26-2019 03:36 AM

Dominic,

I know you have a keen eye for this sort of thing. Have you been able to compare the silver ticket 1.3 to the Seymour GW? That’s a comparison I’d love to see.

Dominic Chan 12-26-2019 08:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 59004144)
Dominic,

I know you have a keen eye for this sort of thing. Have you been able to compare the silver ticket 1.3 to the Seymour GW? That’s a comparison I’d love to see.

I have not seen the Seymour GW, but the ST 1.3 screen is very smooth and neutral. Here’s a close-up picture comparing the ST 1.3 (top) to the ST 1.1 matte white (bottom). To put things in perspective, the ruler scales are in inches (left) and cm (right); the screen size is 115” scope (92” 16:9), so the pixel pitch for 1080p HD would be about 1 mm, and for UHD 0.5 mm. Note that picture was taken with lighting directly above the screen, which accentuates the texture (see the shadows on the ruler cast by the raised gradations). When in use the projected light will be coming from the front, making the texture far less visible even for the 1.1 screen.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...4&d=1577374058

filmgeek47 12-26-2019 08:51 AM

Oh wow, massive difference! Seems like a pretty sweet deal...

Have you looked into painted screens (or screen material with silver fire treated over it?) I’m DIYing either way, but I’m between the ST 1.3 vs painting Carl’s white with silver fire.

If they’re comparable I’d just as soon buy the material and call it a day, but it seems like most people are either firmly in one camp or the other, without a lot of clear comparisons.

EDIT: I assume 1.3 is close enough to 1.1 gain that there shouldn’t be issues with black level being too high? It’s by far my favorite aspect of switching to JVC and I’d hate to compromise that.

Also, do you have to cut the raw 1.3 material at an angle, or have they done that already when the material is shipped? Seymour AV’s screen guide mentions needing to do that with a lot of screen material, and that would obviously limit the screen size you could get out of that.

Dominic Chan 01-14-2020 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 59004762)
EDIT: I assume 1.3 is close enough to 1.1 gain that there shouldn’t be issues with black level being too high? It’s by far my favorite aspect of switching to JVC and I’d hate to compromise that.

It’s the opposite. 1.3 gain allows you to close down the iris, which improves the contrast; i.e., When adjusted for the same white level, the 1.3 gain gives you blacker blacks.


Quote:

Also, do you have to cut the raw 1.3 material at an angle, or have they done that already when the material is shipped? Seymour AV’s screen guide mentions needing to do that with a lot of screen material, and that would obviously limit the screen size you could get out of that.
Cutting at an angle is only done for weave screen material, to minimize moire patterns. Solid screen materials do not have this issue.

filmgeek47 01-15-2020 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 59099620)
It’s the opposite. 1.3 gain allows you to close down the iris, which improves the contrast; i.e., When adjusted for the same white level, the 1.3 gain gives you blacker blacks.




Cutting at an angle is only done for weave screen material, to minimize moire patterns. Solid screen materials do not have this issue.

Thanks. When I get around to my screen project I’m definitely going this route then.

On another note, I know this has been discussed plenty around here, but can you explain to me how screen gain can increase contrast like that? Why is contrast any different when you close down the iris vs leaving it open? Isn’t contrast ultimately a function of the contrast the panel’s are capable of?

Dominic Chan 01-15-2020 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 59101480)
Thanks. When I get around to my screen project I’m definitely going this route then.

On another note, I know this has been discussed plenty around here, but can you explain to me how screen gain can increase contrast like that? Why is contrast any different when you close down the iris vs leaving it open? Isn’t contrast ultimately a function of the contrast the panel’s are capable of?

In additional to the panels, contrast is also affected by the internal reflections in the light path. Closing the iris reduces that.

The JVC’s rated native contrast numbers are all with the iris closed down. Wide open they are quite a bit worse.

filmgeek47 01-15-2020 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic Chan (Post 59102024)
In additional to the panels, contrast is also affected by the internal reflections in the light path. Closing the iris reduces that.

The JVC’s rated native contrast numbers are all with the iris closed down. Wide open they are quite a bit worse.

That makes so much more sense.

Does that remain true with high lamp (I.e is the best contrast setting high lamp closed down?). How far do you close down the iris for optimal contrast? As far as possible for your brightness target?

Dominic Chan 01-15-2020 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmgeek47 (Post 59103126)
That makes so much more sense.

Does that remain true with high lamp (I.e is the best contrast setting high lamp closed down?). How far do you close down the iris for optimal contrast? As far as possible for your brightness target?

For SDR you would close down the iris until you get 50 nits peak white.

For HDR some prefer the maximum peak brightness (typically 100 to 200 nits, depending on screen size and gain, and lamp power), but others prefer to close down a bit, as a trade-off between peak brightness and higher contrast.

filmgeek47 01-15-2020 05:28 PM

Thanks Dominic!

rossandwendy 01-24-2020 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 (Post 58845946)
For what it is worth I have not seen texture on any scenes. Glacier White went PS( perfectly smooth) a little over two years ago so maybe people reporting seeing texture have the older screen material. I love my Glacier White PS screen.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I have a sample of that newest Seymour GW and to my eyes it's on the cold/bluish side of the spectrum compared to other material such as Seymour XD and Stewart ST100 and 130. Did you find the GW to be cool in tone?

Ross


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