Help Picking Screen Size [PICS] - Painted Wall - 150" Scope - 120" 16:9 - 150" 16:9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Help Picking Screen Size [PICS] - Painted Wall - 150" Scope - 120" 16:9 - 150" 16:9

This my first home theater build. I just got my Epson 5050ub and have set it up temporarily on the back bar. It will be ceiling mounted at 20 feet with a Chief 4500. If I go the screen route, I'd really like it to be a Dark Energy Screens model as it seems like it would be great bang for my buck considering my ambient light. But I think their sizing is limited.

Details

Projector: Epson 5050ub
Distance to Wall: ~20 ft (ceiling mount)
Ceiling Height: 99" usable
Wall Width: 170"
Seating Distance: ~ 10 ft

Preferences

My wife and I have been testing out different formats and screen sizes to figure out what we like best. For TV, a 120" 16:9 screen is about perfect for us and I wouldn't want to go too much smaller for TV viewing. For movies, I REALLY like getting a large image somewhere between 140-150" Scope would be great (140" would be perfect). My wife prefers the movies a little smaller, but shes ok going up to the 150" Scope viewing.

Me:
Movies = 150" Diagonal 2.35:1
TV = 120" Diagonal 16:9

My Wife
Movies = 113" Diagonal 2:35:1 on a 120" 16:9
TV = 120" Diagonal 16:9


Option 1: Painted Wall
Pros: No need to choose format. Avoids problems with Imax movies.
Cons: Not as good ALR compared to Dark Energy Screens. My wife thinks it's not as aesthetic.

Option 2: 150" 2.35:1 Screen
Pros: This allows for the largest possible movie format AND our preferred 120" 16:9 TV format.
Cons: Masking needed for best 16:9 experience. Slightly larger than preferred for movies. Not available in this size from DES?

Option 3: 120" 16:9 Screen
Pros: Easiest option. Available premade from DES. Perfect size for TV.
Cons: Feels limiting for scope movies.

Option 4: 150-160" 16:9 Screen
Pros: Maximum use of space.
Cons: Seems too big for TV. Not available from DES?

Option 5: Custom Dimensions
Pros: As wide as I want it for scope but with some additional height for Imax ratio. Will get a bigger 16:9 image out of the area.
Cons: Black bars on all image ratios. Probably not possible with DES. More complicated masking.

DIMENSIONS



IMAGES

120" 16:9 Screen
This size seems perfect to us for TV shows. I don't want to go too much smaller than this for TV



113" 2.35:1 (This would be the size if projected on 120" 16:9 Screen)
This is the preferred size of a scope movie for my wife (although she doesn't care THAT much), which is also the same size the movie would appear if we had a 120" 16:9 screen. So this option would definitely be the most convenient and probably cheapest.



145" 2.35:1 Screen
This is what a 145" scope screen would look like. I think the optimal scope screen for my eyes would be about 140" diagonal, but up to 150" would be good too. And a 150" scope would contain a 120" 16:9 screen. All I'd have to do is work up a masking system to make it look just as good as a native 120" 16:9.



157" 16:9 Screen

This seems way too large for watching TV shows (though I haven't tried football yet), but it would make MAXIMUM use of the real estate on the wall. This size 16:9 screen would allow for a 145" Scope screen.

Last edited by Cypres0099; 11-17-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 11:53 AM
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The solution is simple: paint the room is a dark color, or use dark fabrics, and get a white screen.

A grey screen would help, but not by much, and will be inferior to a mix paint (i.e. Silverfire) or an ALR screen.
Painting the wall is a great option.

As to how big it should be, that is a personal preference.
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post #3 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The solution is simple: paint the room is a dark color, or use dark fabrics, and get a white screen.

A grey screen would help, but not by much, and will be inferior to a mix paint (i.e. Silverfire) or an ALR screen.
Painting the wall is a great option.

As to how big it should be, that is a personal preference.
Painting the room dark isn't going to fly with the wife. The lighting control is fine by me when we're watching with all the lights off. Haven't experimented too much with the lights on yet. Although, on the current painted wall it's probably not giving the most accurate representation of what it would look like with a properly painted wall or basic screen.

I guess what I'm mostly asking about is people's opinions on the different sizes at different ratios. Of course, size and ratio will largely be preference, but I'm sure there are some things in the screen size/ratio argument that I haven't thought of yet.
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypres0099 View Post
Painting the room dark isn't going to fly with the wife. The lighting control is fine by me when we're watching with all the lights off. Haven't experimented too much with the lights on yet. Although, on the current painted wall it's probably not giving the most accurate representation of what it would look like with a properly painted wall or basic screen.

I guess what I'm mostly asking about is people's opinions on the different sizes at different ratios. Of course, size and ratio will largely be preference, but I'm sure there are some things in the screen size/ratio argument that I haven't thought of yet.
Maybe another brand of ALR?
That or buying a cheap screen to paint over.
The matte grey screen is also an option.

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Originally Posted by bdht View Post
I don't think we're talking about the same materials, maybe you're thinking of the dnp 23 / parallax 2.3, and draper react? Then sure, poor horizontal half gain, long minimum throw ratio, and gain artifacts, but they're 2.0+gain screens.

The dnp 08 85 / parallax .8, and evp darkstar9 are artifactless screens with excellent horizontal half gain.

Here's the st100, parallax .8, and elite cinewhite. Notice the parallax has no sparkle, no hotspotting, and perfect uniformity(for a dirty used sample). The cinewhite has very observable sheen and hotspotting.

Check out this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...ed-angles.html
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post #5 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 04:13 PM
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I thought about this enough I started a thread. My thoughts are here.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/117-2...h-ciw-cia.html

For me a DIY painted stealth screen wall can not be beat. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned things like football. There is a huge difference between Game of Thrones and Wheel of Fortune, but they are both TV and not movies. Dunkirk and Aquaman etc are IMAX AR changing movies and they deserve IMAX / Scope sizing. If you look at NFL, NBA, NASCAR etc they are shot like scope and they fill the top and bottom with graphics stats. They are very easy to watch IMAX sized IMO, and when you have a party people will be sitting back in the room and will really like the extra immersion.

With a wall stealth screen you can always zoom smaller. With a fixed screen that is right for some TV like Big Bang you can’t go larger.

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post #6 of 16 Old 11-17-2019, 09:45 PM
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I have seen your posts in the Epson 5050/6050 thread in the projector section. So you must have noticed @biglen painted a screen wall using @MississippiMan s screen paint formula for his 5050 projector and it did come out very well as no masking was necessary. This definitely looks like your best option as you can have screen size anything you want and your Wife can watch the sizes see wants. Paint the whole wall and it will just look like an accent wall with the projector off.
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
I have seen your posts in the Epson 5050/6050 thread in the projector section. So you must have noticed @biglen painted a screen wall using @MississippiMan s screen paint formula for his 5050 projector and it did come out very well as no masking was necessary. This definitely looks like your best option as you can have screen size anything you want and your Wife can watch the sizes see wants. Paint the whole wall and it will just look like an accent wall with the projector off.
This is so true and I don’t know why more people haven’t followed this method of presentation.

Different people like to sit in different rows when they go to a commercial theater and some people will even sit in different rows based on the type of movie it is or the mood they are in or with whom they happen to be going to the movie with that day. My sister just doesn’t like immersion both visual and audio. She will always pick the back of the theater and often complains the sound is too high. So when she comes for movie night just as I would if we went to a movie house together we would sit less immersive. It only takes me 2 seconds to zoom the image down on my stealth wall and another 2 seconds to crank the sound down. I still enjoy the movie and seeing her enjoy it, but many times if I was watching alone it would be more immersive.

Picking your virtual row at home is great.

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post #8 of 16 Old 11-18-2019, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
I have seen your posts in the Epson 5050/6050 thread in the projector section. So you must have noticed @biglen painted a screen wall using @MississippiMan s screen paint formula for his 5050 projector and it did come out very well as no masking was necessary. This definitely looks like your best option as you can have screen size anything you want and your Wife can watch the sizes see wants. Paint the whole wall and it will just look like an accent wall with the projector off.
I do see the advantages to the painted wall for sure. But I'd be surprised if you got the same pop in ambient light as you can get with a nice ALR screen like D.E.S. I'm thinking like a Super Bowl party or something that usually you'll have lights on. Maybe I'm overthinking it though.

Then of course there's the decorative aspect that my wife is concerned with. When the TV isn't in use it just looks like a big ugly grey wall.

But man oh man do I like cranking that thing up to a 150" scope for movies...
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 12:38 AM
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You can get DES screens up to about 59" tall...that's their size-limit, I think. That means you CAN get a 150" 2.35 screen from them, because that's about 59x139.

You can also get the same performance as the DES Abyss from a simple DIY paint mix, but it does take extra work to make the wall/surface really smooth where you'll be viewing. Or finding an affordable screen in the size you want and painting that is also an option.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...-paintmix.html
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Here are a few shots of that FolkArt mix beside the DE Abyss.
Overhead lights on full:


Overhead lights low, on-axis:


Overhead lights low, off-axis:


I think the paint turned out pretty close.

Anyone want to guess which is which, or chime in about things they like/dislike from either screen?
SPOILER
Spoiler!
Both the DES and the paint can perform decently during the day as long as light isn't blasting in from behind the seats/projector. This is only a 98" screen, but the projector is only ~400lumen.


But you should be in good shape through DES as long as you don't need the screen to be taller than 59inches (aka taller than a 120" 16:9 or taller than a 150" scope screen).
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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As for screen-size and masking and asthetic.

I think it sounds like the 150" scope screen should work well for both your movies and TV.
Also, scope screens don't normally require side masking because the projector doesn't project onto the sides when it's zoomed down to the 120" size.

If you decide to go the painted screen route, I think a painted screen or painted rectangle that's darker-colored than the wall looks nicer than painting the whole wall. I'll try to find some examples to show what I mean.

Here are some examples of a few different full-wall screens with some light hitting them. I don't like the way they kind of resemble someone just throwing a projection right onto a plain wall..even with the improvements the paint makes. With lights on, when there's not enough difference between the darkness of the screen and the surrounding wall, I just think it looks..cheap? I don't even know what to call it.
A full-wall BFX1 screen.

A BFX-NC screen that's lighter-grey compared to the darker wall around it.

A mix of 1qt White Pearl (RustOleum) + 1/3qt Glidden Diamond White or Base 3 (non-Tinted) + 1/2qt Poly + 8 to 10oz BF Colorant




Personally, I just think the lighter surround and darker-colored screen look nicer than having the entire wall either the same as the screen or darker-colored than the screen when the room is lit.
The lighter surround makes the dark areas of the screen appear deeper and darker. It's partly your eyes adjusting and partly an optical illusion, but the end result is an image that looks like it has more contrast than it would if the surrounding wall was the same color as the screen.


Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #11 of 16 Old 11-19-2019, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
You can get DES screens up to about 59" tall...that's their size-limit, I think. That means you CAN get a 150" 2.35 screen from them, because that's about 59x139.

You can also get the same performance as the DES Abyss from a simple DIY paint mix, but it does take extra work to make the wall/surface really smooth where you'll be viewing. Or finding an affordable screen in the size you want and painting that is also an option.

But you should be in good shape through DES as long as you don't need the screen to be taller than 59inches (aka taller than a 120" 16:9 or taller than a 150" scope screen).
Wow, thanks for all the awesome image examples Ftoast! Very helpful. The comparison between the DES Abyss and the painted wall is pretty impressive.

Also, I think you're right. A 150" scope screen would give me the max width I want for movies and the max height I want for TV. I can see your point about masking being unnecessary when watching 16:9 or watching a scope movie smaller than 150". However, I wonder if it will seem weird when we're watching sports with the lights on, just having empty screen on the sides... hmmmm
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A lot of personal preference, but I would go with the largest screen your comfortable with. My choice in your environment would be the 145" (150") scope you showed an example of; that said I would definitely want the screen masked off at the very least. A borderless image on a light-colored wall would be distracting to me, but again it's all personal preference. A floating image is really where it's at, but it doesn't sound like your wife would approve of covering the area in velvet to get there lol.
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post #13 of 16 Old 11-20-2019, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypres0099 View Post
I do see the advantages to the painted wall for sure. But I'd be surprised if you got the same pop in ambient light as you can get with a nice ALR screen like D.E.S. I'm thinking like a Super Bowl party or something that usually you'll have lights on. Maybe I'm overthinking it though.



Then of course there's the decorative aspect that my wife is concerned with. When the TV isn't in use it just looks like a big ugly grey wall.



But man oh man do I like cranking that thing up to a 150" scope for movies...
The Black Flame Interstellar paint that I used, is not an ugly color at all. It's actually a nice shade of gray, and looks very nice as an accent wall. I had a professional calibrator come to my house a couple weeks ago to calibrate my 5050, and he was blown away by the PQ the screen was able to produce. He said he notices no difference from my painted screen, and his $20k screen that he has in his setup.

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post #14 of 16 Old 11-20-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypres0099 View Post
Wow, thanks for all the awesome image examples Ftoast! Very helpful. The comparison between the DES Abyss and the painted wall is pretty impressive.

Also, I think you're right. A 150" scope screen would give me the max width I want for movies and the max height I want for TV. I can see your point about masking being unnecessary when watching 16:9 or watching a scope movie smaller than 150". However, I wonder if it will seem weird when we're watching sports with the lights on, just having empty screen on the sides... hmmmm
If you do decide to mask the blank areas of your screen when viewing something that doesn't fill the whole screen (like sports or TV on a wide/scope screen), one of the easier methods for masking that works for both painted or hanging screens is adding curtains near the screen's sides. It can be set up to accent the screen like a window or a stage if you like, opening the curtains for wide-screen content and closing them to mask as much or as little of the sides as needed if you decide you don't like the blank left/right areas during sports/TV.

That's not to say there aren't other ways of masking too. I just think many of the other masking methods tend to stick out noticeably when in use on a screen on an otherwise plain wall..which might be just as weird or more compared to having some blank areas of scren on the left/right of your sports or TV. A "curtain-y" format is one of the more "blends into a room" kind of masking methods.

Alternatively, if you're going with a dark-colored screen for fighting light (like the DES options or similar paints) you might just think the blank areas of screen look as ordinary as your TV looks when watching older 3:4 content with black on the sides or scope/movies with black on the top/bottom. You might be surprised how nice a light-fighting screen can look once you have the room setup with it in mind. A few clever tweaks to your lighting during viewing can really make an already dark-colored screen appear particularly deep and TV-like...except huge.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #15 of 16 Old 11-29-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
You can get DES screens up to about 59" tall...that's their size-limit, I think. That means you CAN get a 150" 2.35 screen from them, because that's about 59x139.

You can also get the same performance as the DES Abyss from a simple DIY paint mix, but it does take extra work to make the wall/surface really smooth where you'll be viewing. Or finding an affordable screen in the size you want and painting that is also an option.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...-paintmix.html


Both the DES and the paint can perform decently during the day as long as light isn't blasting in from behind the seats/projector. This is only a 98" screen, but the projector is only ~400lumen.


But you should be in good shape through DES as long as you don't need the screen to be taller than 59inches (aka taller than a 120" 16:9 or taller than a 150" scope screen).

Oh god I guessed it wrong. If only I could have found some folkart gunmetal in this country. Kudos you are amazing.

Does it affect 3D performance badly or does it stay the same?
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-04-2019, 12:09 PM
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Oh god I guessed it wrong. If only I could have found some folkart gunmetal in this country. Kudos you are amazing.

Does it affect 3D performance badly or does it stay the same?
Your 3D glasses will make the 3D image a lot dimmer than regular 2D content, so planning out enough brightness between your projector and screen-size and the screen's brightness/gain becomes extra important.
Usually a projector of average brightness or a typical screen-size can make dimmer screens a bad choice for 3D, but a smaller screen-size and/or bright projector can make 3D perform well even on a low-gain screen.

Even a high-gain screen that's dark colored and great at fighting ambient light will suffer some dimming when viewed farther and farther off-center while a lighter-colored screen that's weaker against ambient light of similar gain will hold higher brightness by compare when viewed farther and farther off-center...so you'll have to choose which is most important, a screen that keeps higher brightness when viewed off-center or a screen that fights ambient light (and room reflections) better or some compromise between the two.

Your projector's distance from the screen and the screen's size will also be important the darker-colored and/or higher-gain your screen is, because the larger the difference gets between the screen's color/darkness and its peak-gain, the longer it'll want your throw-ratio to be (more aggressive ALR screens will typically want the projector mounted farther and the screen-size smaller..relatively speaking).
If you're stuck with a projector or placement/mounting options that don't allow a long enough throw, then that'll limit your screen options...or it can make an aggressive screen look noticeably unevenly lit if you force it to pair with a shorter throw-ratio than it wants.

Aggressive screens like the DE Abyss or Pulsar (and any paints that give the same performance as either) will need a bit of extra attention for things like your throw-ratio and screen-size and projector-brightness for good 3D. That said, these things are often pretty important no matter which screen you choose if you want it to look as good as possible.


EDIT: I PM'd you some links to a couple different online art/craft paints several days ago. Did those PM's (or links) not get to you, or did the PM's make it but the paints still aren't available (even online) in your region?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 12-05-2019 at 05:23 AM.
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