Need help with picking the right Living Room screen - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 01-02-2020, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Need help with picking the right Living Room screen

hi,

I've just setup my first real HT, including a new Epson Home Cinema 3800 projector in my living room which has some ambient light.

Originally, I thought I would just keep my TV mounted on the wall and have the screen come over it using L brackets. However, after using the projector on the wall for a few weeks, I don't think there's any going back to using a TV now. My TV is "only" 70 inches, but my living room is big and the couch is 17 feet from the opposing wall. The 120 inch screen is much more enjoyable.

I have gone back and forth between motorized drop-down screens and fixed frames. I figure I will need an ALR screen because the living room has light beige walls and white ceilings and has some other ambient light in the room when it's not night time. Elite Screens seems to be the only brand that is within my budget (I'd like to stay under 1k if possible).

This basically leaves me with having to use a fixed frame. I'm wondering, does anyone have a fixed frame in their main living area and likes or regrets it? I could drop 1700$ on a motorized drop-down with ALR/tab tension (Starling from Elite Screens) but that would blow me out of my budget. It seems my other 2 choices are the ES AEON Cinegrey 3D, or the ES EZFrame Cinegrey5D. It seems that there's a significant difference in picture quality between the 3D and 5D with ambient light, BUT, the AEON sleek design is very tempting because this is my main living/hang out area in my smallish 2 bedroom apartment. Not sure how much I'll love having one giant open wall with a big ass fixed frame screen hanging on it in the first place so it's possible the AEON is the safer bet, but the 3D performance doesn't seem as high as the 5D.



Anyone been through this already or otherwise can offer some advice? Thank you in advance!
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post #2 of 21 Old 01-02-2020, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
hi,

I've just setup my first real HT, including a new Epson Home Cinema 3800 projector in my living room which has some ambient light.

Originally, I thought I would just keep my TV mounted on the wall and have the screen come over it using L brackets. However, after using the projector on the wall for a few weeks, I don't think there's any going back to using a TV now. My TV is "only" 70 inches, but my living room is big and the couch is 17 feet from the opposing wall. The 120 inch screen is much more enjoyable.

I have gone back and forth between motorized drop-down screens and fixed frames. I figure I will need an ALR screen because the living room has light beige walls and white ceilings and has some other ambient light in the room when it's not night time. Elite Screens seems to be the only brand that is within my budget (I'd like to stay under 1k if possible).

This basically leaves me with having to use a fixed frame. I'm wondering, does anyone have a fixed frame in their main living area and likes or regrets it? I could drop 1700$ on a motorized drop-down with ALR/tab tension (Starling from Elite Screens) but that would blow me out of my budget. It seems my other 2 choices are the ES AEON Cinegrey 3D, or the ES EZFrame Cinegrey5D. It seems that there's a significant difference in picture quality between the 3D and 5D with ambient light, BUT, the AEON sleek design is very tempting because this is my main living/hang out area in my smallish 2 bedroom apartment. Not sure how much I'll love having one giant open wall with a big ass fixed frame screen hanging on it in the first place so it's possible the AEON is the safer bet, but the 3D performance doesn't seem as high as the 5D.



Anyone been through this already or otherwise can offer some advice? Thank you in advance!
A screen must not be chosen until the projector has been used for some time on the wall.
Have you tested the PJ and decided on an 120" screen?

While these screens have a minimum throw of 1.5x, something like 1.8x or 2.0x is more appropriate to avoid hotspots and sparkle. They will be most visible on a white/very bright image.

I would not get a borderless screen since it may be very difficult to get it right and a black border would help.


Personally it does not bother me having a fixed screen, especially if it costs that much more.
For even more a budget solution ALR fabrics can be had for a very little cost, just need to build a wooden frame.


For the difference between the 3D and 5D, depends how much light is in the room. More info?


Painting is another great budget solution, paints with ALR properties exist. It's not complicated and will also improve black levels.


All of this could be avoided if the room can be treated, with dark paint. Light control would be required from windows of other light sources.
A white screen could be used here, or the paint mix mentioned above for improved blacks.
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-02-2020, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response.
There's 17 feet between the wall the screen will be on and the wall the projector is mounted to. I have a simple wall mounted shelf with the projected sitting on it. The lense is a little more than 15 feet away from the wall. That puts me just about at 1.5x.

I've had the projector set up for a few weeks watching it on a wall. I played with different siZes and feel either 125 or 120 would be great. Preference is 120 to account for my tower speakers.

As far as how much light - it's a north facing room with blinds on all the windows (windows only on one side). There's light colored paint on the walls.

Good point about the frame. Perhaps the ES EZFrame is better than the Aeon? The EZ frame is also a little cheaper for the Cinegrey3d and a lot cheaper for 5d.
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-02-2020, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Also wanted to add that even though there's not a ton of ambient light in the room, I prefer to turn on a little light after dark just to not watch TV or movies in pitch black. Nothing crazy but prefer just some light on.
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-02-2020, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks for the response.
There's 17 feet between the wall the screen will be on and the wall the projector is mounted to. I have a simple wall mounted shelf with the projected sitting on it. The lense is a little more than 15 feet away from the wall. That puts me just about at 1.5x.

I've had the projector set up for a few weeks watching it on a wall. I played with different siZes and feel either 125 or 120 would be great. Preference is 120 to account for my tower speakers.

As far as how much light - it's a north facing room with blinds on all the windows (windows only on one side). There's light colored paint on the walls.

Good point about the frame. Perhaps the ES EZFrame is better than the Aeon? The EZ frame is also a little cheaper for the Cinegrey3d and a lot cheaper for 5d.
Depth of the projector is about 1', plus 4" for the cables, plus wall to screen 2". 17'-1'6"=15'6"
15'6"=186"
The width of a 120" 16:9 screen is 104.6".
186 / 104.6 = 1.77

It's unclear if there will be any hotspot at this throw ratio.

It doesn't sound like the 5D would be needed over the 3D.

This is what the 3D looks like with four different lightning scenarios:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58809924

In the link above there is also a more recent post with a projector at 1.35x, with a more reduced hotspot. There was a refresh of the fabric before I got it, so I'm not sure if this is the issue, or the pictures don't capture the hotspot.


Another alternative would be Silver Ticket High Contrast Grey. It's got 0.67 gain, but is not just a grey screen. It's got ALR properties. Unlikely to produce a hotspot, but the ambient light rejecting properties will be much less than the 3D.

If some lights on will be used it's recommended they don't hit the screen directly, so recessed.
They should also be in the viewing area and not the screen area.

With ALR screens, the only place that light must not come from is the same direction as the projector.

What about painting the walls? This would benefit the SC HC Grey more than the 3D, and more with lights on than lights off.
It would be beneficial to reduce the amount of light reflecting around the room.
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response, it helps a lot!
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all your help.
I was reading through some of your posts, and it seems there's mixed reviews on the Cinegrey?
Do you feel happy with your purchase?
Do you still recommend I get the screen knowing there could be hot spot issues?
Based on my photos below, do you still think 3D is enough for me? I'm still not sure and the price difference is negligible (500ish vs 850ish for EZFrame)
Do you like the Aeon thin bezel is enough to help frame the picture? I love the sleek look of the Aeon.

BTW, here's two photos of my room with ambient light. It's 11AM and its an overcast day. When the sun is bright, it gets brighter, but not too much. This is because the room is northern facing.
I also have doors open from the bathroom and bedrooms, which have light coming in. Sorry for the mess
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Thanks again for all your help.
I was reading through some of your posts, and it seems there's mixed reviews on the Cinegrey?
Do you feel happy with your purchase?
Do you still recommend I get the screen knowing there could be hot spot issues?
Based on my photos below, do you still think 3D is enough for me? I'm still not sure and the price difference is negligible (500ish vs 850ish for EZFrame)
Do you like the Aeon thin bezel is enough to help frame the picture? I love the sleek look of the Aeon.

BTW, here's two photos of my room with ambient light. It's 11AM and its an overcast day. When the sun is bright, it gets brighter, but not too much. This is because the room is northern facing.
I also have doors open from the bathroom and bedrooms, which have light coming in. Sorry for the mess

It's not a problem with the screen (3D), it's how ALR's work. They are like a mirror, if the projector is too close the light that reaches the edges will be reflected somewhere on the walls. If it's placed further away then that light is reflected more towards the viewer.

That is a lot of light.
The window next to the projector would need to be covered.

The 5D is more agressive and will increase the likelihood of a hotspot.
The problem is that even with the 5D, there is too much light in the room and the image will be washed out anyway. The only thing you could watch is something that the quality does not matter, like day time TV, or sports. Images that are brighter will do better, dark ones will be seriously washed out.

I'm not happy with the screen because of the hotspot and elevated blacks, but I don't use it in high ambient light.

You should cover up the windows and get a ST HC grey. If not, an ALR, but there might be artifacts, and the image will be washed out.
This type of setup is what TV's are for, not projectors.
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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It's not a problem with the screen (3D), it's how ALR's work. They are like a mirror, if the projector is too close the light that reaches the edges will be reflected somewhere on the walls. If it's placed further away then that light is reflected more towards the viewer.

That is a lot of light.
The window next to the projector would need to be covered.

The 5D is more agressive and will increase the likelihood of a hotspot.
The problem is that even with the 5D, there is too much light in the room and the image will be washed out anyway. The only thing you could watch is something that the quality does not matter, like day time TV, or sports. Images that are brighter will do better, dark ones will be seriously washed out.

I'm not happy with the screen because of the hotspot and elevated blacks, but I don't use it in high ambient light.

You should cover up the windows and get a ST HC grey. If not, an ALR, but there might be artifacts, and the image will be washed out.
This type of setup is what TV's are for, not projectors.
Thanks for the reply.
It should be easy enough to add a blind to that window on the back door.
That being said, truthfully I don't watch much TV during the day, so not super worried about it.
I'm more concerned about nighttime viewing, and how much light reflects off these light colored semigloss walls.
This is why I'm considering the ALR screen.

why Do you like the ST HC Grey over the Cinegrey 3D?
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe this will help give more context.
I just shut all the doors and blinds.
Still need one more blind for that other window.
Same day, almost the same time. Overcast day 12 noon.
The Epson Home Cinema 3800 on 'high' mode and 'Cinema' putting out a lot of light via the UHD Blu Ray (HDR).
Seems like even without an ALR screen, daytime viewing is pretty good with this very bright (3000 stated lumens) projector.

My original idea was to keep my flat screen mounted on the wall and have a motorized drop down screen for the PJ, but after using a 125in screen for awhile, I don't wanna go back to a little 70in TV, even during the day..
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Maybe this will help give more context.
I just shut all the doors and blinds.
Still need one more blind for that other window.
Same day, almost the same time. Overcast day 12 noon.
The Epson Home Cinema 3800 on 'high' mode and 'Cinema' putting out a lot of light via the UHD Blu Ray (HDR).
Seems like even without an ALR screen, daytime viewing is pretty good with this very bright (3000 stated lumens) projector.

My original idea was to keep my flat screen mounted on the wall and have a motorized drop down screen for the PJ, but after using a 125in screen for awhile, I don't wanna go back to a little 70in TV, even during the day..
You have to decide if you want a screen that will do better in daytime conditions with raised blacks and a possible hotspot/sparkle, or a screen that will provide better blacks, none of the issues of the 3D/5D, but less ambient light rejection properties.

Who would you watch a movie like BR in that ambient light environment? 50% of movies have APL under 5%. This is ~7%:
https://i.imgur.com/sZXiu4h.jpg

You're trying to create a TV out of the projector setup, and it does not work. Projector setups are for lights off viewing, TV's are for lights on/ambient light.


Alternatively, get some thick curtains to block out the light.

Why not samples for both and see what looks better?
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 01:53 PM
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Maybe this will help give more context.
I just shut all the doors and blinds.
Still need one more blind for that other window.
Same day, almost the same time. Overcast day 12 noon.
The Epson Home Cinema 3800 on 'high' mode and 'Cinema' putting out a lot of light via the UHD Blu Ray (HDR).
Seems like even without an ALR screen, daytime viewing is pretty good with this very bright (3000 stated lumens) projector.

My original idea was to keep my flat screen mounted on the wall and have a motorized drop down screen for the PJ, but after using a 125in screen for awhile, I don't wanna go back to a little 70in TV, even during the day..
I know this will be hard to believe but as you know projectors don’t make black or project black. If some area needs to be dark color or black the projector will try and send no light out. For that reason the darkest real black you can ever get is what the screen looks like with whatever light is in the room.

If you have a color picker tool you can use it on your blade runner photo and see the spots that you perceive as black are really what the wall is with no projector on it or even a little brighter. Perception takes place where our eyes get affected by the other brightness in the image and make us see something darker than it would be. This works in images that are overall bright like sports and such and it shows the truth when an image is mostly dark. Lots of movies have these dark images most TV is kept brighter generally speaking.

CR is how many times brighter white is than black in the image. Your projector may be capable of 5000:1 and the image you are getting now might be 50:1.

It matters a lot how deeply you want to rely on perception. If what you watch is ok that’s all that matters. My screen is a painted wall it has been what I use for the last 20 years. I like a neutral gray screen wall but that helps with the black level but requires more lumens to keep the white level where I want it.

Bud
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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You have to decide if you want a screen that will do better in daytime conditions with raised blacks and a possible hotspot/sparkle, or a screen that will provide better blacks, none of the issues of the 3D/5D, but less ambient light rejection properties.

Who would you watch a movie like BR in that ambient light environment? 50% of movies have APL under 5%. This is ~7%:
https://i.imgur.com/sZXiu4h.jpg

You're trying to create a TV out of the projector setup, and it does not work. Projector setups are for lights off viewing, TV's are for lights on/ambient light.


Alternatively, get some thick curtains to block out the light.

Why not samples for both and see what looks better?
not sure I follow, what is "APL"? what do you mean there?
Most of my viewing will be after dark, so I want ALR to help with reflections off the wall mostly.
But also for occasional viewing during the day. I wont be upset if the daytime viewing is imperfect as I don't watch a ton of TV during the day generally anyway.
It does seem like the Cinegrey 3D may be the best middle ground but still not 100%
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this will be hard to believe but as you know projectors don’t make black or project black. If some area needs to be dark color or black the projector will try and send no light out. For that reason the darkest real black you can ever get is what the screen looks like with whatever light is in the room.

If you have a color picker tool you can use it on your blade runner photo and see the spots that you perceive as black are really what the wall is with no projector on it or even a little brighter. Perception takes place where our eyes get affected by the other brightness in the image and make us see something darker than it would be. This works in images that are overall bright like sports and such and it shows the truth when an image is mostly dark. Lots of movies have these dark images most TV is kept brighter generally speaking.

CR is how many times brighter white is than black in the image. Your projector may be capable of 5000:1 and the image you are getting now might be 50:1.

It matters a lot how deeply you want to rely on perception. If what you watch is ok that’s all that matters. My screen is a painted wall it has been what I use for the last 20 years. I like a neutral gray screen wall but that helps with the black level but requires more lumens to keep the white level where I want it.
Thanks. This makes perfect sense to me as projectors can only add light, not take it away, so it could never be darker than the darkest color, similar to how tattoos work on skin.
The CR is 100k:1 in my Epson.
I can tell that the darks are not actually black, but just the same color as the unlit wall. It's especially obvious in the pic I shared.
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 02:15 PM
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not sure I follow, what is "APL"? what do you mean there?
Most of my viewing will be after dark, so I want ALR to help with reflections off the wall mostly.
But also for occasional viewing during the day. I wont be upset if the daytime viewing is imperfect as I don't watch a ton of TV during the day generally anyway.
It does seem like the Cinegrey 3D may be the best middle ground but still not 100%
I would get the ST HG grey because of the better blacks. It's also got some ALR properties.
Wouldn't risk hotspot or elevated black level for some daytime viewing. Daytime viewing will be affected anyway, the improvement from the 3D isn't worth it IMO.

The way to resolve this is to get samples from both.
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens.../dp/B01E9LMJCC
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 04:24 PM
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Thanks. This makes perfect sense to me as projectors can only add light, not take it away, so it could never be darker than the darkest color, similar to how tattoos work on skin.
The CR is 100k:1 in my Epson.
I can tell that the darks are not actually black, but just the same color as the unlit wall. It's especially obvious in the pic I shared.
This article should shed a little light on your question (pun intended).

http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-...-measurements/

The way our eyes iris dilates is related to the brightness of the whole image. When an image is brighter the iris is smaller and blacks are perceived blacker. Just like an iris on a projector but in reverse. Our eyes are amazing but they are awful light meters. The human eye can only discern about 500:1 CR at any instance but over time can take in 1,000,000:1 CR with the change in the eye opening. That’s why the stars are up there during the day but we can only see them at night when our eyes open fully as the light level is so low.


So they have studied all this and say a projector like yours is 100k:1 all you have to do is light one candle and it might drop to 1000:1 so when the image is really dark even though your room is white its not reflecting much light back to the screen. when the image is very bright its lighting the room up but we also have perception kicking in. It is a multi level tradeoff of factors. That’s why in a perfect black room with a 1.0 gain white screen we only need around 10 FL to view a beautifully bright image. Now when we start competing with outside light and we keep upping the FL hoping to compensate we get some help but also more side effects.

Office projectors assume awful conditions so they have lots of lumens and lower CR knowing that in that setting lumens trump CR. High end projectors assume perfect room for just the opposite reasons.

Bud
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post #17 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
not sure I follow, what is "APL"? what do you mean there?
Most of my viewing will be after dark, so I want ALR to help with reflections off the wall mostly.
But also for occasional viewing during the day. I wont be upset if the daytime viewing is imperfect as I don't watch a ton of TV during the day generally anyway.
It does seem like the Cinegrey 3D may be the best middle ground but still not 100%
I would get the ST HG grey because of the better blacks. It's also got some ALR properties.
Wouldn't risk hotspot or elevated black level for some daytime viewing. Daytime viewing will be affected anyway, the improvement from the 3D isn't worth it IMO.

The way to resolve this is to get samples from both.
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens.../dp/B01E9LMJCC
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
Great suggestion on getting the sample materials. I did think of that but am feeling inpatient. I have the whole surround sound and projector setup for a few weeks now and can't wait to get a screen going!

Have you seen this comparison video? It shows the Cinegreys side by side to the ST HC and both of the Cinegreys seem superior. For whatever that is worth.
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post #18 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
not sure I follow, what is "APL"? what do you mean there?
Most of my viewing will be after dark, so I want ALR to help with reflections off the wall mostly.
But also for occasional viewing during the day. I wont be upset if the daytime viewing is imperfect as I don't watch a ton of TV during the day generally anyway.
It does seem like the Cinegrey 3D may be the best middle ground but still not 100%
I would get the ST HG grey because of the better blacks. It's also got some ALR properties.
Wouldn't risk hotspot or elevated black level for some daytime viewing. Daytime viewing will be affected anyway, the improvement from the 3D isn't worth it IMO.

The way to resolve this is to get samples from both.
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens.../dp/B01E9LMJCC
https://www.silverticketproducts.com...terial-samples
Great suggestion on getting the sample materials. I did think of that but am feeling inpatient. I have the whole surround sound and projector setup for a few weeks now and can't wait to get a screen going!

Have you seen this comparison video? It shows the Cinegreys side by side to the ST HC and both of the Cinegreys seem superior. For whatever that is worth.
Forgot the link: https://youtu.be/KWVkmDLcu5Y
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post #19 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Great suggestion on getting the sample materials. I did think of that but am feeling inpatient. I have the whole surround sound and projector setup for a few weeks now and can't wait to get a screen going!

Have you seen this comparison video? It shows the Cinegreys side by side to the ST HC and both of the Cinegreys seem superior. For whatever that is worth.
1) As the reviewer said, those are his subjective opinions.
2) Internet pictures are not the same as IRL experience.
3) A sample experience can differ from the real screen.
4) This is not an accurate way of doing comparisons. For each fabric the settings of the projector's settings need to be adjusted.
Discussion on this topic, see what the posters have to say:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l-s-place.html
5) The 3D and 5D are better how, because they are brighter? Of course they are, they are brighter screens.
I mentioned this in a previous post, the 3D/5D will offer a better ambient light solution with some potential negative aspects, whereas the ST HC grey will offer better blacks with no visual artifacts, while still retaining a smaller amount of ALR functionality.

If the main purpose and time spent will be in the dark, then the ST would be the better choice.
During the day the image will be washed out on both the Elite and Silver Ticket, as it's shown in the video. Do you want to sacrifice the benefits of the ST for a small difference in favor of the 3D/5D for daytime use?

This is exactly the research I did, and I mistakenly got the 3D believing that it would be better for an untreated room. My case was in the dark only, I wasn't even planning on using it with more ambient light than what still comes through the black out shades.
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post #20 of 21 Old 01-03-2020, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
Great suggestion on getting the sample materials. I did think of that but am feeling inpatient. I have the whole surround sound and projector setup for a few weeks now and can't wait to get a screen going!

Have you seen this comparison video? It shows the Cinegreys side by side to the ST HC and both of the Cinegreys seem superior. For whatever that is worth.
1) As the reviewer said, those are his subjective opinions.
2) Internet pictures are not the same as IRL experience.
3) A sample experience can differ from the real screen.
4) This is not an accurate way of doing comparisons. For each fabric the settings of the projector's settings need to be adjusted.
Discussion on this topic, see what the posters have to say:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...l-s-place.html
5) The 3D and 5D are better how, because they are brighter? Of course they are, they are brighter screens.
I mentioned this in a previous post, the 3D/5D will offer a better ambient light solution with some potential negative aspects, whereas the ST HC grey will offer better blacks with no visual artifacts, while still retaining a smaller amount of ALR functionality.

If the main purpose and time spent will be in the dark, then the ST would be the better choice.
During the day the image will be washed out on both the Elite and Silver Ticket, as it's shown in the video. Do you want to sacrifice the benefits of the ST for a small difference in favor of the 3D/5D for daytime use?

This is exactly the research I did, and I mistakenly got the 3D believing that it would be better for an untreated room. My case was in the dark only, I wasn't even planning on using it with more ambient light than what still comes through the black out shades.
I really appreciate all your help.

I will keep digging and doing my research and read more of the links you shared.

Not to make you repeat yourself, but just so I can understand more clearly. If my room is completely dark, night time viewing with no lights on in the house, but light colored walls. Which is better for reducing the washout from the reflection of light off the walls? I originally thought ALR such as Cinegrey would be best for this since it reflects the light back towards the source (and not to the walls surround the screen). Are you saying I am not correct here? That a High Contrast screen like the ST would be better than a Cinegrey to avoid the washout from the light colored walls?
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post #21 of 21 Old 01-04-2020, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Dough View Post
I really appreciate all your help.

I will keep digging and doing my research and read more of the links you shared.

Not to make you repeat yourself, but just so I can understand more clearly. If my room is completely dark, night time viewing with no lights on in the house, but light colored walls. Which is better for reducing the washout from the reflection of light off the walls? I originally thought ALR such as Cinegrey would be best for this since it reflects the light back towards the source (and not to the walls surround the screen). Are you saying I am not correct here? That a High Contrast screen like the ST would be better than a Cinegrey to avoid the washout from the light colored walls?
The ST HC grey has 0.67 gain. It does have ALR properties. The shade of grey looks around 0.6, which means for until 0.67 there is the ALR film.
The 3D claims a 1.2 gain. It's probably closer to 1.0. The shade of grey looks around 0.5, which means to achieve 1.0 it needs 0.5 gain in ALR film.
The ALR film is at least three times more reflective on the 3D than on the ST HG. Approximate values.
It's this film that will probably raise the black level. If a hotspot is present, it will raise the black level even more.

The ALR film is what gives the 3D it's light rejecting capabilities. The grey base lowers the brightness of the image.
The 3D claims 65% ambient light rejection.

Every time ambient light hits the ST HC, it will only reflect back 67%.

If you had two samples of fabric, one white and one grey, to reach the same brightness on the grey the brightness on the projector would need to be increased by the amount of negative gain the grey screen has.
With a grey screen the brightness level can be kept lower because:
But our eyes don't always pick up the white levels looking all that darker, though we may notice the lower black floor now.

The 3D might be better at fighting ambient light, but the same reflective film that helps it do that is also what will give raised blacks over the ST HG. The ST HG also have a small amount of ALR fighting capabilities.
There is no way to 100% eliminate hotspot, it's always there, even if it's not obvious.

At least this is what I think is happening.
Best to test it live with samples.

Thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...op-whites.html
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