Screen grains/sparkles - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Screen grains/sparkles

Hi all,

I am newbie, who decided to throw some money into my first HT. So, I bought Sony VPL-VW570ES (695ES in US iirc) and SI Slate 1.2 137 inch screen. Was told it would work well. My room is dedicated, but not absolutely light controlled - it is in the basement, 2 small windows are covered with blackout curtains. Walls and ceiling a painted in dark grey, the screen wall is the darkest, and others are tone or two brighter. However, after completing the installation I was really dissapointed - especially after spending almost 4k euros on the screen - I see grains all over the picture, it is most visible when there are white and bright colours. My throw distance is about 1.5 - ~4.66 meters from the screen to PJ. Unfortunately that is the max distance I could get. Viewing distance is about 3.5-4 meters from the screen. That grain effect looks like, there is a nice picture somewhere behind the, I don’t know, greasy screen maybe? Many many little dots that are like a first layer, and the picture itself is on the second layer. And those dots are everywhere, it doesn’t matter what viewing angle and so on am I watching it.

Is it the screen problem because of small throwing distance? I think I could live with it but not when I paid such price. Expectations were much higher. I am now considering trying either Stewart Cima Neve, which would cost about 3 grands in EU, or getting EliteScreens CineWhite for ~800 Eur. At the same time I am kinda scared that my projector could not lighten up a White screen in my environment. Also, what are the chances getting grains on those 2 screens?
Gotta think how to sell that Slate now, if the problem is the screen, because there aren’t so many enthuasiasts in my country specifically and in EU in general I think.

Thank you in advance for the answers.

Best Regards.
Alex Glazachev is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 09:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,239
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2319 Post(s)
Liked: 1217
As a simple experiment take some white copy paper and hang it in front of your screen. This will approximate a 1.0 gain white screen sample.

Report back if the sparkles are gone on the sample?


With your room colors and only a couple small windows, I would suggest blacking out the windows and see what you think of just a reference white screen. even at worst you could make your next screen 120” and sit a foot closer to it.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #3 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 11:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,509
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1369 Post(s)
Liked: 398
The throw ratio is 1.53x. It's expected the image to artifact at that throw ratio with that fabric.

Send the screen back. Have a chat with the salesman.

With that projector it's very recommended you do proper light control. It's much easier and cheaper to reduce the get some blackout blinds or something to cover the light from the windows.

Additionally paint the other walls in a darker shade of grey.


For the screen, get a Neve or a ST130 G4 which has a 1.3 actual gain. The Neve is ~1.1. Get samples and put them in the center of the where the screen would be. The ST130 has a minimum recommended throw of 1.3x and should not display any sparkles wit the projector at 1.53x.

Another more budget alternative for a quality screen is painting. Can be applied on a smooth white wall or a smooth white PVC screen. The mixes are customizable.
noob00224 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Yeah, it looks totally OK with white paper. Funny to see how the sheet of paper performs better than my screen
Totally my fault, I listened to salesman and didn't do much of my own research before ordering.

Regarding ST130 G4, it is a very nice screen but it is kinda out of my budget I think, if it costs around 4000 USD in USA, I am afraid to search for european prices. As I mentioned, Cima Neve 135 inch is around 3000 eur. If only I could send my Slate back I would just order Neve. Gotta call tomorrow, but I am afraid those are not returnable as it was custom ordered etc. plus I had it laying around waiting for some months. But will try anyway. Thank you very much for replies and help, I really appreciate it.

By the way, if Neve gain is 1.1, and minimal throw ratio 1.0 - no grains guaranteed on 1.53 too? Will 1800 lumens be enough to lighten 1.1 gain screen? Or maybe I should take a look at Tiburon? Thanks!
Alex Glazachev is offline  
post #5 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,509
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1369 Post(s)
Liked: 398
Don't think the Neve will have grains, but check out the thread or ask a user that has it like @m0j0
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...hread-113.html

With that screen I'd want as much brightness as possible.
That Sony has ~1500lm in Full lamp I assume, so with an 137" 16:9 screen would result in ~27fL with new lamp, with ~20fL after 500h.
These values are with a 1.0 screen.

The Tiburon has 0.8 gain.
noob00224 is offline  
post #6 of 10 Old 03-08-2020, 09:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 990
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked: 201
The neve and ST130 dont have grain/sparkle but they do have a slight sheen and are more susceptible to hotspotting than the st100. though much less than the elite cinewhite. For a budget fixed frame screen you may want to look into elunevisions reference 4k 100 as its reported to perform well.

If you still want ALR look at the Dalite Parallax or DNP supernova 0885, the only caveat with these is that your eye level is at least 1/3 screen height. Very matte finish like the st100, no sparkle/grain/sheen, will reject light from above and the darker grey will offset some low ambient light and/or cross reflections.
bdht is online now  
post #7 of 10 Old 03-09-2020, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
As a simple experiment take some white copy paper and hang it in front of your screen. This will approximate a 1.0 gain white screen sample.

Report back if the sparkles are gone on the sample?


With your room colors and only a couple small windows, I would suggest blacking out the windows and see what you think of just a reference white screen. even at worst you could make your next screen 120” and sit a foot closer to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The throw ratio is 1.53x. It's expected the image to artifact at that throw ratio with that fabric.

Send the screen back. Have a chat with the salesman.

With that projector it's very recommended you do proper light control. It's much easier and cheaper to reduce the get some blackout blinds or something to cover the light from the windows.

Additionally paint the other walls in a darker shade of grey.


For the screen, get a Neve or a ST130 G4 which has a 1.3 actual gain. The Neve is ~1.1. Get samples and put them in the center of the where the screen would be. The ST130 has a minimum recommended throw of 1.3x and should not display any sparkles wit the projector at 1.53x.

Another more budget alternative for a quality screen is painting. Can be applied on a smooth white wall or a smooth white PVC screen. The mixes are customizable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
The neve and ST130 dont have grain/sparkle but they do have a slight sheen and are more susceptible to hotspotting than the st100. though much less than the elite cinewhite. For a budget fixed frame screen you may want to look into elunevisions reference 4k 100 as its reported to perform well.

If you still want ALR look at the Dalite Parallax or DNP supernova 0885, the only caveat with these is that your eye level is at least 1/3 screen height. Very matte finish like the st100, no sparkle/grain/sheen, will reject light from above and the darker grey will offset some low ambient light and/or cross reflections.
Thanks. I have contacted my salesman, he told me to wait couple of days until he speaks with SI regarding my situation. He may offer me PureWhite material. I haven't found many reviews about it, but it looks like OK too, at least it would be easier to get in EU comparing to Stewart.

About ST100, I am afraid my projector couldn't lighten it up properly. Should have gone with UHZ65 instead.
Alex Glazachev is offline  
post #8 of 10 Old 03-09-2020, 03:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 2,509
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1369 Post(s)
Liked: 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Glazachev View Post
Thanks. I have contacted my salesman, he told me to wait couple of days until he speaks with SI regarding my situation. He may offer me PureWhite material. I haven't found many reviews about it, but it looks like OK too, at least it would be easier to get in EU comparing to Stewart.

About ST100, I am afraid my projector couldn't lighten it up properly. Should have gone with UHZ65 instead.
The Purewhite is 1.3 gain and 75 degree half angle. It looks fine but I would get a sample just to make sure.

The Sony is a much better projector than the UHZ65.
noob00224 is offline  
post #9 of 10 Old 03-09-2020, 07:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 8,762
Mentioned: 157 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4007 Post(s)
Liked: 3176
The only way to get a screen with >1.0 gain is with directional gain. All directional gain comes with compromises when compared with a matte (lambertian) screen. The best (usually most expensive) directional gain screens typically have the least noticeable compromises that are more acceptable to more people.
Dave in Green is offline  
post #10 of 10 Old 03-09-2020, 12:14 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
talon95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 1,681
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 271
The other thing people don't realize about screens with greater than 1.0 gain is that they likely won't even get the rated gain. Particularly with large screens and short viewing distances. It's quite easy to get less than 1.0, in which case the 1.0 gain material will actually be better.

Alex, you should do a little simple geometry if you haven't already and see what you're true viewing angles are and compare to the gain graph for your screen and any other materials you might choose before deciding on an alternate material. Maybe you already did this but I find it difficult to make the geometry work out to really get significant positive gain.
talon95 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Screens

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off