What acoustically transparent screen? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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What acoustically transparent screen?

I am in the process of building a theater with controlled lighting, JVC NX7, 150” acoustically transparent screen, room size 16x25, seating position 14’ back. What AT screen would you recommend and what dealers should I check out? Budget for screen is $3-4K. Can it be done? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cluckey View Post
I am in the process of building a theater with controlled lighting, JVC NX7, 150” acoustically transparent screen, room size 16x25, seating position 14’ back. What AT screen would you recommend and what dealers should I check out? Budget for screen is $3-4K. Can it be done? Thanks in advance.
Are you interested in DIY at all?

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post #3 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 07:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cluckey View Post
I am in the process of building a theater with controlled lighting, JVC NX7, 150” acoustically transparent screen, room size 16x25, seating position 14’ back. What AT screen would you recommend and what dealers should I check out? Budget for screen is $3-4K. Can it be done? Thanks in advance.
Stewart has a new AT screen coming out in the next month or two. No idea on pricing, gain or throw distance. Might be worth waiting on the announcement if you can. My friends at Stewart tell me it will live up to their other reference screens.

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post #4 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you interested in DIY at all?

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Possibly. Just now starting to research.
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post #5 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 07:58 AM
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Possibly. Just now starting to research.
If you have a light controlled room you could try spandex. Look up the diy screen section.

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That size screen, with the seating distance to support it, I'd be looking at Stewart ST130G4 microperf if you also have the space behind the screen for the speakers to sit 8-12" from the screen.

Spandex is ~ 0.7 gain. I have a 120" wide scope screen (138" equivalent diagonal 16:9) with 0.84 gain (Dreamscreen v6, I measured gain compared to Stewart ST100) and with the RS3000 / NX9 I still needed the DCR lens to get acceptable brightness. If you're going with a scope screen, all the savings from spandex would be eaten from adding the lens and it still wouldn't be as bright. For the price you can try it and discard it though.
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post #7 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 08:22 AM
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That size screen, with the seating distance to support it, I'd be looking at Stewart ST130G4 microperf if you also have the space behind the screen for the speakers to sit 8-12" from the screen.



Spandex is ~ 0.7 gain. I have a 120" wide scope screen (138" equivalent diagonal 16:9) with 0.84 gain (Dreamscreen v6, I measured gain compared to Stewart ST100) and with the RS3000 / NX9 I still needed the DCR lens to get acceptable brightness. If you're going with a scope screen, all the savings from spandex would be eaten from adding the lens and it still wouldn't be as bright. For the price you can try it and discard it though.
I am extremely happy with spandex. See the absolute clarity of pics below on spandex. Reach out to @MississippiMan for expert opinion.


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I am extremely happy with spandex. See the absolute clarity of pics below on spandex. Reach out to @MississippiMan for expert opinion.


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Man you love pushing Spandex screens and trying to drag Mississippi man into the conversation. We heard you the first time. Most people wouldn't consider spandex with an $9K projector. I have not come across anyone in the JVC 4K owners thread using a spandex screen. You also have a much smaller screen than 150 inches. Looks like 100 inches. Looks like the image from an Optoma projector.

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post #9 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 09:08 AM
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Man you love pushing Spandex screens and trying to drag Mississippi man into the conversation. We heard you the first time. Most people wouldn't consider spandex with an $9K projector. I have not come across anyone in the JVC 4K owners thread using a spandex screen.

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If you want to throw away a lot of money I am not going to stop you. But I have every right to express my opinion based on my experience as you have the right to push a more expensive one. I add @MississippiMan because I value his opinion (and so do countless others) and have had success doing the same. I will leave it to the OP to figure out what he wants. The post was not for you but for the OP who asked for an opinion.

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post #10 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 09:14 AM
 
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If you want to throw away a lot of money I am not going to stop you. But I have every right to express my opinion based on my experience as you have the right to push a more expensive one. I add @MississippiMan because I value his opinion (and so do countless others) and have had success doing the same. I will leave it to the OP to figure out what he wants. The post was not for you but for the OP who asked for an opinion.

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LOL. People who can support their own opinion don't try to prop up their opinion by tagging another person.

You know he doesn't appreciate all the pointless arguments you try dragging him into.

I will stick with my 140 inch 2:39 Stewart Filmscreen Studiotek 130 G4 screen.

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post #11 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 09:15 AM
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LOL. People who can support their own opinion don't try to prop up their opinion by tagging another person.

You know he doesn't appreciate all the pointless arguments you try dragging him into.

I will stick with my 140 inch 2:39 Stewart Filmscreen Studiotek 130 G4 screen.

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I supported my opinion with the pictures I posted. You seem to have a rather myopic view which I don't think is productive for me to engage in. As I said if you want to throw away money please do. I did not ask your for your opinion or what screen you used. If you want to lead the OP in a different direction feel free to do so; just don't try to undermine my experience and the perspective I bring to the table.

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I supported my opinion with the pictures I posted. You seem to have a rather myopic view which I don't think is productive for me to engage in. As I said if you want to throw away money please do. I did not ask your for your opinion or what screen you used. If you want to lead the OP in a different direction feel free to do so; just don't try to undermine my experience and the perspective I bring to the table.

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You did a great job with the budget you had for your theater but pairing a $9K projector with spandex screen makes zero sense to everyone but you.

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post #13 of 30 Old 06-19-2020, 09:24 AM
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You did a great job with the budget you had for your theater but pairing a $9K projector with spandex screen makes zero sense to everyone but you.

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Again we will let the OP decide what he wants. He will need to compare the pros and cons. You posted an image and I posted mine. And both of them look good. It's up to the OP to figure out what's the greatest bang for his buck. The downside with spandex is it is cheap. If he decides he is not happy, then replacing it with a more expensive material is a non brainer but he is happy he may have ended up saving quite a bit of money.

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post #14 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
LOL. People who can support their own opinion don't try to prop up their opinion by tagging another person.

You know he doesn't appreciate all the pointless arguments you try dragging him into.

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You did a great job with the budget you had for your theater but pairing a $9K projector with spandex screen makes zero sense to everyone but you.

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Well after soothing the scrapes garnered from all the draggin' goin' on, I'll say these two things:
  • If the Screen Size can accommodate Spandex's lower 0.7 gain, it's visual qualities easily can augment the performance of a NX7....as it's performance visually and aurally can easily be compared to the DS-V6 the latter being adjudged as superior "Visually" and "Aurally" to the Stewart. However in this case it does not.
  • I personally have pared Painted DIY Screens with no fewer than 4- NX9s....a Projector that is quite a bit more expensive than the NX7. And...it was the surface of choice, not a make-do as all those applications involved Theaters whose big-ticket Owners could easily have afforded extortionately more expensive Mfg Screens.
What really is the case is that such mention of a truly DIY-oriented Material on this Forum dedicated to Mfg Screen materials should be brief at most, and then carried over onto DIY Screens and/or PMs so as not to antagonize those who feel cost is the primary consideration as to quality.

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Again we will let the OP decide what he wants. He will need to compare the pros and cons. You posted an image and I posted mine. And both of them look good. It's up to the OP to figure out what's the greatest bang for his buck. The downside (No, the UPSIDE...the Downside is it's lower gain) with spandex is it is cheap. If he decides he is not happy, then replacing it with a more expensive material is a non brainer but he is happy he may have ended up saving quite a bit of money.
@genaccmiller

I appreciate your confidence and your own appreciation as to my involvement in your Project. Using me to nail down a point of order is OK with me....as long as that point is well taken.

Your advocacy to Spandex applications is commendable and well earned / deserved....and with you lack of understanding/experience concerning the separation of Forum-related "Church & State" as far as Mfg & DIY Screen applications, it is also understandable and commendable that you want to express your own satisfaction by referring others. But there is a valid reason for the separation of DIY fromMfg......the responses you received here kinda shows why. Best to contact a member via PM if he responds to a simple suggestion, not elaborate on a Forum where most will look askance on such advice....or even take some offense.

All of the above said....a 1900 lumen NX7 setting at 15'-8" and hitting a 0.7 gain Spandex screen would only provide 18 foot lambert, and that is just not enough to allow for consistently great HDR performance. That figure must be at / above 28-30 fl these days (...w/better HDR content...) While a DIY painted screen app can easily provide that much or more FLs, Spandex will not as the Lumen required with most Projectors is more in the range of 2500 minimum....and more would be even better.

But...and I gotta add to that...if the PJ was a NX9 (w /2200 lumen and a top-notch Lens) then the premise would be valid. For some the pleasure of both saving money and getting exceptional performance constitutes a double dose of satisfaction. That is and will always remain a personal decision for the end use to make so your last statement does in fact hold much truth.
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post #15 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 07:58 AM
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I am in the process of building a theater with controlled lighting, JVC NX7, 150” acoustically transparent screen, room size 16x25, seating position 14’ back. What AT screen would you recommend and what dealers should I check out? Budget for screen is $3-4K. Can it be done? Thanks in advance.
At that screen size, as mentioned, you will have challenges getting enough light output to display anything other than SDR content. If you can't get 100nits on a projector after calibration, it makes getting satisfying HDR performance tough, in my experience.

So you will want to strongly consider perf screens instead of woven screens, since the former can have positive gain (which will help you) and the latter are inevitably negative gain (which will hurt you). And I say this as someone with the woven screen that I love, but I'm at 8 feet from the equivalent of a 110" diag 16x9 screen.

It will mean you need more room behind the screen due to the nature of how perf works, so you definitely want to take that into account early on because that would probably mean that if you want your first row at 14', then your back row is against the back wall (3 feet-> > false screen wall -> 14 feet to first row -> seating width of 3 or more feet -> and at least six feet for row two).


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post #16 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Well after soothing the scrapes garnered from all the draggin' goin' on, I'll say these two things:
  • If the Screen Size can accommodate Spandex's lower 0.7 gain, it's visual qualities easily can augment the performance of a NX7....as it's performance visually and aurally can easily be compared to the DS-V6 the latter being adjudged as superior "Visually" and "Aurally" to the Stewart. However in this case it does not.
  • I personally have pared Painted DIY Screens with no fewer than 4- NX9s....a Projector that is quite a bit more expensive than the NX7. And...it was the surface of choice, not a make-do as all those applications involved Theaters whose big-ticket Owners could easily have afforded extortionately more expensive Mfg Screens.
What really is the case is that such mention of a truly DIY-oriented Material on this Forum dedicated to Mfg Screen materials should be brief at most, and then carried over onto DIY Screens and/or PMs so as not to antagonize those who feel cost is the primary consideration as to quality.



@genaccmiller

I appreciate your confidence and your own appreciation as to my involvement in your Project. Using me to nail down a point of order is OK with me....as long as that point is well taken.

Your advocacy to Spandex applications is commendable and well earned / deserved....and with you lack of understanding/experience concerning the separation of Forum-related "Church & State" as far as Mfg & DIY Screen applications, it is also understandable and commendable that you want to express your own satisfaction by referring others. But there is a valid reason for the separation of DIY fromMfg......the responses you received here kinda shows why. Best to contact a member via PM if he responds to a simple suggestion, not elaborate on a Forum where most will look askance on such advice....or even take some offense.

All of the above said....a 1900 lumen NX7 setting at 15'-8" and hitting a 0.7 gain Spandex screen would only provide 18 foot lambert, and that is just not enough to allow for consistently great HDR performance. That figure must be at / above 28-30 fl these days (...w/better HDR content...) While a DIY painted screen app can easily provide that much or more FLs, Spandex will not as the Lumen required with most Projectors is more in the range of 2500 minimum....and more would be even better.

But...and I gotta add to that...if the PJ was a NX9 (w /2200 lumen and a top-notch Lens) then the premise would be valid. For some the pleasure of both saving money and getting exceptional performance constitutes a double dose of satisfaction. That is and will always remain a personal decision for the end use to make so your last statement does in fact hold much truth.
It looks like I ignored the lumen setting on the projector and compared it to my Epson 3800 lumens of 3000. You are right in that with a lower lumens the gain on spandex will not help. Although I am a bit surprised why a higher priced projector has lower lumens but that's a topic for another day. However my suggestion on spandex was one of the DIY options. Since the OP indicated his willingness to consider it, it may have been better to carry on the discussion in the DIY section to see if the painted screen option would be a better bang for the buck. I think this is important for me to consider as well because when I recommend spandex I kind of assume that a higher priced projector has a higher lumens than mine but as I found out it is not apparently so.

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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Well after soothing the scrapes garnered from all the draggin' goin' on, I'll say these two things:
  • If the Screen Size can accommodate Spandex's lower 0.7 gain, it's visual qualities easily can augment the performance of a NX7....as it's performance visually and aurally can easily be compared to the DS-V6 the latter being adjudged as superior "Visually" and "Aurally" to the Stewart. However in this case it does not.
  • I personally have pared Painted DIY Screens with no fewer than 4- NX9s....a Projector that is quite a bit more expensive than the NX7. And...it was the surface of choice, not a make-do as all those applications involved Theaters whose big-ticket Owners could easily have afforded extortionately more expensive Mfg Screens.
What really is the case is that such mention of a truly DIY-oriented Material on this Forum dedicated to Mfg Screen materials should be brief at most, and then carried over onto DIY Screens and/or PMs so as not to antagonize those who feel cost is the primary consideration as to quality.



@genaccmiller

I appreciate your confidence and your own appreciation as to my involvement in your Project. Using me to nail down a point of order is OK with me....as long as that point is well taken.

Your advocacy to Spandex applications is commendable and well earned / deserved....and with you lack of understanding/experience concerning the separation of Forum-related "Church & State" as far as Mfg & DIY Screen applications, it is also understandable and commendable that you want to express your own satisfaction by referring others. But there is a valid reason for the separation of DIY fromMfg......the responses you received here kinda shows why. Best to contact a member via PM if he responds to a simple suggestion, not elaborate on a Forum where most will look askance on such advice....or even take some offense.

All of the above said....a 1900 lumen NX7 setting at 15'-8" and hitting a 0.7 gain Spandex screen would only provide 18 foot lambert, and that is just not enough to allow for consistently great HDR performance. That figure must be at / above 28-30 fl these days (...w/better HDR content...) While a DIY painted screen app can easily provide that much or more FLs, Spandex will not as the Lumen required with most Projectors is more in the range of 2500 minimum....and more would be even better.

But...and I gotta add to that...if the PJ was a NX9 (w /2200 lumen and a top-notch Lens) then the premise would be valid. For some the pleasure of both saving money and getting exceptional performance constitutes a double dose of satisfaction. That is and will always remain a personal decision for the end use to make so your last statement does in fact hold much truth.
As you know better than anyone your DIY paint mixtures are a totally different product than a Spandex screen. Having seen your screen wall products in person I can personally attest to their being mentioned in the same breath as a reference screen. They produce stunning images.

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It looks like I ignored the lumen setting on the projector and compared it to my Epson 3800 lumens of 3000. You are right in that with a lower lumens the gain on spandex will not help. Although I am a bit surprised why a higher priced projector has lower lumens but that's a topic for another day. However my suggestion on spandex was one of the DIY options. Since the OP indicated his willingness to consider it, it may have been better to carry on the discussion in the DIY section to see if the painted screen option would be a better bang for the buck. I think this is important for me to consider as well because when I recommend spandex I kind of assume that a higher priced projector has a higher lumens than mine but as I found out it is not apparently so.

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I recall someone posting these same exact comments here previously about higher lumens to pair adequately with such a large spandex screen. LOL. Perhaps it was me

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post #19 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 08:09 AM
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I recall someone posting these same exact comments here previously about higher lumens to pair adequately with such a large screen. LOL. Perhaps it was me

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Read my post again. I assumed a higher priced projector would have higher lumens.

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Read my post again. I assumed a higher priced projector would have higher lumens.

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I know you assumed. I tried to gently explain that previously. It is all good. We all make assumptions from time to time. You love spandex. You get great images from your Epson 3800 and Spandex. Why wouldn't you love it.

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post #21 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
I know you assumed. I tried to gently explain that previously. It is all good. We all make assumptions from time to time. You love spandex. You get great images from your Epson 3800 and Spandex. Why wouldn't you love it.

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Again to be VERY clear spandex is one DIY option. Painted screen is another option as well. Spandex as we know if not ok for higher lumens which is the case here.

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post #22 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 08:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
Again to be VERY clear spandex is one DIY option. Painted screen is another option as well. Spandex as we know if not ok for higher lumens which is the case here.

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Not okay for lower lumens. For higher lumens it can be a great option as you know with your theater.

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post #23 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by skylarlove1999 View Post
Not okay for lower lumens. For higher lumens it can be a great option as you know with your theater.

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I think you missed this part in MMs post. This leads me to believe a painted screen is one of the options you could consider.

While a DIY painted screen app can easily provide that much or more FLs...

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post #24 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 09:33 AM
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I'll step in here and ask that the discussion about DIY options be taken to the DIY forum. If the OP wants to start a thread on the topic, he's more than welcome to do so. Otherwise, let's keep this thread concerning Manufactured options.

@genaccmiller

Please keep in mind that this hobbyist forum is about eeeking out the highest percentage of performance. Sometimes that means spending x amount of money to get that final percentage. We also recognize, this hobby has ppl of all levels of experience and resources, so there is a place for everyone.

I personally don't spend time in the 20K plus forum. I received an invite from a designer from that forum to visit an HT he was upgrading in my metro area. The upgrade included a projector, new audio processor and atmos ceiling speakers. The owner also had a calibrator flown in from Atl to do both audio and video. During the demo, I was wowed by the audio performance. How does my HT compare....it simply doesn't. Do I enjoy my HT, yes I love it. Would I spend a six figures on my HT, not unless I won the lottery. I'm not going to debate with the 20k forum members that they can get the same performance for less.

That being said, pushing an on-going DIY discussion in this sub-forum (when we have a DIY forum) is not appropriate.

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post #25 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 09:50 AM
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OP

I've owned a Stewart screen and the performance combined with ease of putting it together and mounting, they are hard to beat. After we moved, I had to start over.

Now, I will say a highly respected HT designer advice was to put more money into speakers on the audio side and the screen on the video side. Those two components will see less tech advancement from year to year. I made the decision to do this for speakers, but I did take the less expensive option on the screen side. I saw a difference in the diff. manufacture vs the Stewart screen in assembly, light absorption from the frame material, sturdiness of the frame. Since I didn't compare the actual screen material, I don't know what the two compare (obviously the most important component ). I'm really happy with the image and would not spend the extra money (this time) for the Stewart. If I had the additional cash, I probably would have spent the extra for the Stewart.
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post #26 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post
I'll step in here and ask that the discussion about DIY options be taken to the DIY forum. If the OP wants to start a thread on the topic, he's more than welcome to do so. Otherwise, let's keep this thread concerning Manufactured options.


@genaccmiller



Please keep in mind that this hobbyist forum is about eeeking out the highest percentage of performance. Sometimes that means spending x amount of money to get that final percentage. We also recognize, this hobby has ppl of all levels of experience and resources, so there is a place for everyone.



I personally don't spend time in the 20K plus forum. I received an invite from a designer from that forum to visit an HT he was upgrading in my metro area. The upgrade included a projector, new audio processor and atmos ceiling speakers. The owner also had a calibrator flown in from Atl to do both audio and video. During the demo, I was wowed by the audio performance. How does my HT compare....it simply doesn't. Do I enjoy my HT, yes I love it. Would I spend a six figures on my HT, not unless I won the lottery. I'm not going to debate with the 20k forum members that they can get the same performance for less.



That being said, pushing an on-going DIY discussion in this sub-forum (when we have a DIY forum) is not appropriate.
I agree with you.

Since OP said he was open to DIY options I presented the DIY options. Maybe we should ask OPs who are open to DIY options to open up a thread in that discussion board. This is of course assuming that they are not asked to take it down since there will be two different threads on the same topic, one in DIY and one in manufactured.

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post #27 of 30 Old 06-20-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genaccmiller View Post
I agree with you.

Since OP said he was open to DIY options I presented the DIY options. Maybe we should ask OPs who are open to DIY options to open up a thread in that discussion board. This is of course assuming that they are not asked to take it down since there will be two different threads on the same topic, one in DIY and one in manufactured.

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There is no problem having a DIY screen thread and the screen thread in the manufactured screen forum, they are two different products. ....that's why we have two separate forums.

I don't want to belabor the point. So this thread is a discussion for professionally produced screens.

Thanks

Ron

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post #28 of 30 Old 06-23-2020, 08:18 PM
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I am in the process of building a theater with controlled lighting, JVC NX7, 150” acoustically transparent screen, room size 16x25, seating position 14’️ back. What AT screen would you recommend and what dealers should I check out? Budget for screen is $3-4K. Can it be done? Thanks in advance.
At that screen size, as mentioned, you will have challenges getting enough light output to display anything other than SDR content. If you can't get 100nits on a projector after calibration, it makes getting satisfying HDR performance tough, in my experience.

So you will want to strongly consider perf screens instead of woven screens, since the former can have positive gain (which will help you) and the latter are inevitably negative gain (which will hurt you). And I say this as someone with the woven screen that I love, but I'm at 8 feet from the equivalent of a 110" diag 16x9 screen.

It will mean you need more room behind the screen due to the nature of how perf works, so you definitely want to take that into account early on because that would probably mean that if you want your first row at 14', then your back row is against the back wall (3 feet-> > false screen wall -> 14 feet to first row -> seating width of 3 or more feet -> and at least six feet for row two).
First off let me say I’m new to HT stuff. Just put together our first one. So I have nothing to compare it to, but I have a 127” 2.35 Severtson cinema white micro-perf screen 1.3 gain and it is fantastic. Plus it is very reasonable price wise. Took this with my phone the other night, pics don’t do it justice. I have it paired with a jvc rs600.
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post #29 of 30 Old 06-24-2020, 09:26 AM
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First off let me say I’m new to HT stuff. Just put together our first one. So I have nothing to compare it to, but I have a 127” 2.35 Severtson cinema white micro-perf screen 1.3 gain and it is fantastic. Plus it is very reasonable price wise. Took this with my phone the other night, pics don’t do it justice. I have it paired with a jvc rs600.
1.3 seems great for such a screen. Any other reviews of severtson? I am trying to pick a scope screen for my theater under construction.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-01-2020, 12:57 PM
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Would a Dreamscreen V7 with (. 93) gain be enough for a NX7 at 16' from a 150" diagonal 2.40 scope screen without DCR? I am looking at similar options as the OP and originally looked at spandex but came to the conclusion it would be too dim for that screen size.
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