2008 CEDIA Rumor - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 01:34 AM
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My VW60 needed a 0.4 pixel shift down on red to achieve what appears to be perfect convergence with the in built test patterns.

Watching it work up close whilst making the adjustment made a believer out of me ... prior to getting the projector the theory seemed problematic and I had real doubts that it would be of any use ... then I tried it ...

The resulting picture is plenty sharp on normal material.
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post #212 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 01:59 AM
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Ok, given past postings i have been advised to present myself in this manner under a new guise

There will be 2 new projectors from JVC at the show, one just above RS1 and one above RS2.

Sony will be showing the vw70, vw200 replacement and potentially the qualia replacement but this is still unverified.
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post #213 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 04:07 AM
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Thanks for the heads up. Did you really need to go 007 just to state that though? Not a lot of meat in that really. If you are going undercover you should have given us specs too.
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post #214 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 04:41 AM
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Above in price or performance? ...and would the RS1 replacement beat RS2?
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post #215 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 09:09 AM
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Any one can put up a two color grid line pattern, see global misalignment and appear fix it with global subpixel adjustment. It won't be fixed globally, but it can be appear to be fixed in the center and perhaps over a large portion of te grid. Subzone i needed to ppear to fix any area where there appears still to be misalignment. Any casual viewer can come close to the screen, see misalignment and appear to fix it. Anybody here certainly. But at what cost to PQ?. Many here would see not see the loss of resolution just like they wouldn't see resolution loss in certain deinterlacing situations in video processing. Its so easy to see close up misalignment and fix it but it ain't fixed. At normal viwing distances one using it probably only makes the picture worse. But hey you have a perfect grid with decreased resolution, What one doesn't know can hurt you but what one doesn't see in video ....
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post #216 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 09:31 AM
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I think you have an imperfect picture ether way. Not using the convergence control you your left with miss convergence = loss in resolution along with chroma aberration or color fringing. Using the convergence control = loss in resolution but at least you have corrected for the color fringing. Pick your poison.
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post #217 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Off of center say at edges I would tolerste on a sub $35K machine two or three pixels off.

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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

But at what cost to PQ?

Yep. That is the question. We can compare to a fantasy of zero misconvergence anywhere (no different at the edges than center) and we can also compare to the reality. So, what cost to PQ is also the question with the 2-3 pixels you said you would tolerate with sub $35k machines (as Alan basically said).

I understand the argument that sub-pixel adjustments are worse than perfect alignment, but I don't understand how you can argue against them at the same time as you say you would tolerate 2-3 pixels off at the edges with sub $35k machines. I doubt there is much comparison to which one hurts the PQ more (with the sub-pixel being better than 2-3 pixels off out there). You don't have to use the sub-pixel feature in the center of the screen (if they implement the tools right). The center could be left with full pixel adjustments and then use the sub-pixel adjustments outside that area to nicely transition to get the convergence close across the whole image without having some full pixel jump at points in order to do zones and fix up a 2-3 pixel misconvergence at the edges.

Seriously, which do you think would hurt the PQ more, within half a pixel at the center with 2-3 pixel misconvergence at the edges or within half a pixel at the center and then sub-pixel with zones to get the whole screen to within half a pixel (without a full pixel jump in misconvergence between adjacent pixels anywhere)?

Is your advice to just leave things 2-3 pixels off at the edges if a person doesn't want to spend $50k and gets a machine that is off that far?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #218 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 11:02 AM
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Darin. I think its pick your poison. Whatever givers you what you think is best. The vw200 has a lot of choices and settings, while setting black level and contrast may be cut and dried, right or wrong, many other settings are user preference.
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post #219 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAV2007 View Post

Ok, given past postings i have been advised to present myself in this manner under a new guise

There will be 2 new projectors from JVC at the show, one just above RS1 and one above RS2.

Not replacements by the way, one to go between the 1 & 2 and the 4K unit that has already been out.

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post #220 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

Above in price or performance? ...and would the RS1 replacement beat RS2?

No.

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post #221 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jahummer View Post

Not replacements by the way, one to go between the 1 & 2 and the 4K unit that has already been out.

Doesn't make much sense to me. What do you add to an RS1-1/2 that makes the intermediate step up worthwhile without cannibalizing half of your RS2 sales?
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post #222 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopstretch View Post

Doesn't make much sense to me. What do you add to an RS1-1/2 that makes the intermediate step up worthwhile without cannibalizing half of your RS2 sales?

Maybe they are just adding vertical stretch (hopeful thinking)... Would that make it the RS1X0.5? I don't see how something in between would really add a whole lot, but we shall see!
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post #223 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopstretch View Post

Doesn't make much sense to me. What do you add to an RS1-1/2 that makes the intermediate step up worthwhile without cannibalizing half of your RS2 sales?

my guess is you have the contrast of the RS2 but with manual focus/ zoom and possibly with or without vertical stretch.

Dustin
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post #224 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopstretch View Post

Doesn't make much sense to me. What do you add to an RS1-1/2 that makes the intermediate step up worthwhile without cannibalizing half of your RS2 sales?

I don't know their marketing plan, but a middle model with the RS1 brightness and contrast with the other features (like anamorphic scaling) of the RS2 would not cannibalize RS2 sales. That model would satisfy larger screen anamorphic setups that the RS2 can't accommodate.

Human perception is not a direct consequence of reality, but rather an act of imagination. - Michael Faraday
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post #225 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopstretch View Post

Doesn't make much sense to me. What do you add to an RS1-1/2 that makes the intermediate step up worthwhile without cannibalizing half of your RS2 sales?

Maybe brighter image but lower contrast (than RS2) ?

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post #226 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 03:05 PM
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the rs2 will be discontinued as will the rs1 once stocks have run out, rs2 has ceased prodution with rs1 to follow soon.

I dont know if these model numbers will hold in the US, but for EU they are the HD350 and HD750.
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post #227 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAV2007 View Post

the rs2 will be discontinued as will the rs1 once stocks have run out, rs2 has ceased prodution with rs1 to follow soon.

I dont know if these model numbers will hold in the US, but for EU they are the HD350 and HD750.

Interesting. Here's hoping for an RS2 clearance sale.
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post #228 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

You guys seem to have missed my earlier post:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14444350

Sorry, yes I did miss your post. But, the AV guy seems to have seen the new projectors and promises a review in about a week. Have any of the senior members in this forum got a review ready to release?
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post #229 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BAV2007 View Post

the rs2 will be discontinued as will the rs1 once stocks have run out, rs2 has ceased prodution with rs1 to follow soon.

Well that's a different kettle of fish. If it's still two models, each improved over the predecessor, it makes sense. Four variants within the same performance envelope, somewhat less so.
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post #230 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 05:39 PM
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Well that's a different kettle of fish. If it's still two models, each improved over the predecessor, it makes sense. Four variants within the same performance envelope, somewhat less so.

Who said there were 4 variants?

There will be a model priced lower than the RS1X, the RS1X, the RS2 and the 4K unit, still priced in the same realm as the current model just under six figures.

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post #231 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
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Who said there were 4 variants?

You.

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Not replacements by the way, one to go between the 1 & 2 and the 4K unit that has already been out.

To me, that read RS1, RS1.5, RS2, RS2.5. Thank you for clarifying.
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post #232 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 10:01 PM
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Let's see how true any of this is. Discontinuance and replacement of the 1 and 2 makes sense to me. But I really don't know,
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post #233 of 644 Old 08-19-2008, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jahummer View Post

Not replacements by the way, one to go between the 1 & 2 and the 4K unit that has already been out.

All this is quite exciting; makes me glad I will be attending my first CEDIA this year, and it sounds like I will be spending some time at the JVC booth. I'm curious if any of these will strike me as enough of an upgrade to get me to replace my RS1U (from the original AVS 'pre-buy'). It would also be a great surprise to see a led/dlp projector, but it may be a year too early for these.
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post #234 of 644 Old 08-20-2008, 02:01 AM
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JVC does not exhibit at the official show. So they have no booth.They exhibit at a theater just around the corner from the convention center.
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post #235 of 644 Old 08-20-2008, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopstretch View Post

You.



To me, that read RS1, RS1.5, RS2, RS2.5. Thank you for clarifying.

Sorry, I had a feeling I had not made it clear enough.

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post #236 of 644 Old 08-20-2008, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

All this is quite exciting; makes me glad I will be attending my first CEDIA this year, and it sounds like I will be spending some time at the JVC booth. I'm curious if any of these will strike me as enough of an upgrade to get me to replace my RS1U (from the original AVS 'pre-buy').

My first CEDIA too (However - been going to CES since 1986.)

Same for me - (my RS1 is from original AVS pre-order).
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post #237 of 644 Old 08-20-2008, 07:24 AM
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I think this Cedia will not be very well attended (floor traffic was relatively sparse last year, making getting around very easy,this year it willbe evenless) because custom guys and B&Ms are really really hurting because of the economy. Except for big boy projectors 9say above $60K, I think there won't be a lot of new projectors beyond Sony and JVC. But whoknows.But there will be so much else to see. Denver is a really nice place to visit. Be sure to spend at least one day going to the mountains only a short trip from down town.
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post #238 of 644 Old 08-20-2008, 09:19 PM
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Going back to Sony... Is the VW60 already being discontinued? Should I bite the bullet and buy one now to replace my VW50? I understand the new VW70 will be price of $8,000.
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post #239 of 644 Old 08-21-2008, 05:25 AM
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The 60is not being discontinued. The 40is. The Sony line up thus will be $3.5K, $5K, $8K, and $15K and ....
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post #240 of 644 Old 08-21-2008, 07:16 AM
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There will be an HW15 (replacing the VW40)...VW60, VW70, VW200, and possibly another. This is for the near term future...what happens later in the year is unknown.
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