Official Sanyo PLV-Z3000 120Hz 1080p thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 669 Old 10-28-2008, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

True enough, though "videophiles" (whether you fancy yourself one or not) also don't expect perfection for $2400 nor would they usually be caught dead in the under $3K forum.

Here's where you need to be:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

I disagree the $20,000+ forums is where I need to be.

In electronics I don't look at as perfection is at all possible. IMO, every piece of gear has it's faults, you just have to find the components that has the faults YOU can live with.

This new generation of projectors (AE3000, 6500UB/7500UB, HW10, RS350/RS750, ETC.) have truly raised the bar for front projectors to the point you have to ask yourself is it worth it to even pay $10,000 for a projector that is even slightly better for a hell of a lot more $$$$$. This new crop of projectors have raised the bar so high that you would have to A/B them with a $15-20,000 to truly see the difference. A few members have sold there JVC RS1's to get the AE3000 because it gets that close in performance. If you can afford a projector in the $20,000 forum more power to you, but IMO it's way beyond the point of diminishing returns.
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post #32 of 669 Old 11-01-2008, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Not much news about this PJ, huh? I wonder when reviewer's will be getting them? It's being released in Japan in less than a month, I'm surprised there isn't more talk.
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post #33 of 669 Old 11-01-2008, 01:32 PM
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Art from projectorreviews.com said he will be getting his in around two weeks. But that was almost one week ago. Who knows. Still, if he gets it on time, its going to be likely another week before we hear any first impression from him. He does good reviews but he takes his time to do them.

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post #34 of 669 Old 11-08-2008, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Not much news about this PJ, huh? I wonder when reviewer's will be getting them? It's being released in Japan in less than a month, I'm surprised there isn't more talk.

I was wondering about that. My first thought was to get the Panasonic AE3000, but being able to get a much bigger image from the wide angle side of the zoom is a very attractive feature to me, and makes CIH via zooming more practical. I just hope Sanyo doesn't price it out of my reach, because except for that one feature, it doesn't offer much over the AE3000, in fact less.
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post #35 of 669 Old 11-08-2008, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

I was wondering about that. My first thought was to get the Panasonic AE3000, but being able to get a much bigger image from the wide angle side of the zoom is a very attractive feature to me, and makes CIH via zooming more practical. I just hope Sanyo doesn't price it out of my reach, because except for that one feature, it doesn't offer much over the AE3000, in fact less.

Well, the Sanyo does 5:5 pulldown. It also should be quieter, and possibly will have better black levels than the AE3000 thanks to the additional optical compensating plate in the Sanyo.

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post #36 of 669 Old 11-09-2008, 03:49 PM
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The Panasonic AE3000 also has this feature (an additional polarizing plate), as do the more expensive new models from Mitsubishi and Epson. In fact last years Epson 1080UB was the first model with this feature, and this is what has allowed the 3LCD camp to jump from ~1200:1 CRs to ~3000:1-~5000:1 CRs. Epson makes the 3LCD panels that all these projectors use and generally invents the core technologies available to the manufacturers.

Panasonic sometimes goes its own way on some things like smoothscreen (although Epson also uses a 'less smooth' version of this technology), etc. but the Mitsubishi, Epson and Sanyo models will likely be in the same ballpark as far as contrast goes.
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post #37 of 669 Old 11-09-2008, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info, Seth. I knew that all the new 120Hz PJs this fall/Winter were using the same Epson Panels, but I wasn't aware about the additional optical compensating plates.


I'm looking to get the Sanyo because it will most likely be the best for gaming thanks to the Pixelworks DNX processing, and should also be razor sharp which is great for PC use.

The Panasonic AE3000's smoothdscreen is not ideal for PC use, and the Epson 6500UB's Reon processing is not ideal for gaming.
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post #38 of 669 Old 11-09-2008, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

That was a pre-production model, and the Projector Central review had a totally different opinion.

Yes, I made that test and the unit used was a pre-production sample.

Maybe in the final version the Smothscreen have had a improvement, to be a little bit sharper, but AE3000 continues to be a little bit softer than others projectors:

From PJreviews, about AE3000:

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Sharpness

Our first image is a closely cropped image of the DTS test disc opening menu. What you see in the thumbnail is only about 20% of the area of the full image. The larger versions when you click on them are even further cropped. As you can see, the Panasonic is not exceptional in this area.

...

The PT-AE3000U is not overly sharp, in part due to their SmoothScreen technology which makes for essentially an invisible pixel structure (comparable to LCoS projectors and better than DLP, and better still compared to other 3LCD projectors. The thing is, few of us see pixel visibility to be an issue with 1080p projectors. Consider the differences in sharpness between 1080p projectors to be pretty minor. They all look sharp, and it really takes a side by side viewing to become aware of the differences. Sure, sharper is better, especially for digital source material, but with typical movies (with all their film noise - grain), the subtle differences in sharpness are harder to detect. (But I can detect)

My own JVC RS1 is at the most, the tiniest bit sharper, while a number of others are better still than my RS1. I've had my projector for a year and a half, and have never felt that the sharpness was any sort of problem. (In other words, the slight softness is something you won't notice. While there are differences in sharpness between competing projectors, it's not overly significant, and probably not enough to affect a purchase decision. Still if a razor sharp image is your thing, you might consider the competition from Sanyo, Mitsubishi, InFocus and BenQ.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...ance.php#sharp

In spite of Smothscreen I'm going to buy the AE3000, because I want to use a 2.35:1 screen and I loved "Memory Lens", as I told in my quick review.

Unfortunately Z3000 does not have this feature (Memory Lens).
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post #39 of 669 Old 11-09-2008, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilomms View Post

Yes, I made that test and the unit used was a pre-production sample.

Maybe in the final version the Smothscreen have had a improvement, to be a little bit sharper, but AE3000 continues to be a little bit softer than others projectors:

From PJreviews, about AE3000:



In spite of Smothscreen I'm going to buy the AE3000, because I want to use a 2.35:1 screen and I loved "Memory Lens", as I told in my quick review.

Unfortunately Z3000 does not have this feature (Memory Lens).


Hey, if you're going for a 2.35:1 screen, the Panny is a mighty appealing projector.

I'm 16:9 all the way. I need the happy medium for everything, I can't buy a screen for an aspect that's a minority.


...but hey, I'll take that 2.35:1 screen off your hands if you change your mind.
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post #40 of 669 Old 11-10-2008, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

I can't buy a screen for an aspect that's a minority.

For me 2.35:1 is a majority
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post #41 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 02:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a Japanese site selling the Z3000.
http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/jo...06-31-600.html

Japan MSRP for the Z3000: 483,000円
This site has the Z3000 listed at 348,000円
The same site sells the Panasonic AE3000 for 416,700円


Yodobashi Camera is selling the Sanyo Z3000 for 398,000円 , and the Panasonic AE3000 for 448,000円.
http://www.yodobashi.com/ec/product/...277/index.html


I wonder what the average street price in Japan is for these Projectors?
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post #42 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

I wonder what the average street price in Japan is for these Projectors?

Kakaku.com is kind of the defacto website for finding the various prices for a lot of things, including projectors. The sites aren't necessarily all the best places to buy big ticket items, but kakaku still gives a great idea of the web prices:

Bic Camera and Yodobashi Camera

TW4000: ¥369,800
Z3000: ¥398,000
AE3000: ¥448,000

Kakaku cheapest 5 (approx):

TW4000: ¥322,700
Z3000: ¥328,000
AE3000: ¥350,000

Clearly Panasonic has a ridiculous markup on their retail price, and Sanyo's not much better.

I'd rather buy from a store like Bic or Yodobashi, where I can return it in person, bring it home with me that day, and I know the store will continue to be around and provide good service. Also, Bic and Yodobashi both have optional extended 5 year warranties programs, which in the case of a projector is a no brainer in my mind. That's why I'll almostly certainly be purchasing an Epson projector from Yodobashi later this month.

(Note that Yodobashi and Bic Camera have point programs, which mean that if you spend $1000, you get $100 in store credit for your next purchase. 10% is the norm for most things, and I'm using part of my points from the projector to get the 5 year warranty and the rest to get a new Xbox 360 arcade, which'll run cooler, quieter and use less energy. The 10% points on the Epson mean I'm barely spending more than I would for the cheapest online store after points, so )

Mods, if this kind of pricing talk isn't allowed, please let me know. I'm assuming that since it's about Japan, it's not a problem.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #43 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 03:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Slightly off topic, but is Yodobashi Camera still looping their viral theme music in the stores?

I have a love/hate thing going on with it. Sometimes I would find myself singing along with it, other times I just wanted it out of my brain!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL9z2fppPx8
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post #44 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Slightly off topic, but is Yodobashi Camera still looping their viral theme music in the stores?

Yes.

But Yodobashi is nothing compared to Don Quixote...
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jIHlLamcg

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Shopping at a Don Quixote really does drive me nuts. If it wasn't for the giddly feeling I get at seeing designer handbags, $5000 watches, childrens toys and sex toys in a 2 square meter area, I probably wouldn't go back.

Seriously, every time someone from the states visits me, I have to take them to one...just so they can see I'm not joking.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #45 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post

Yes.

But Yodobashi is nothing compared to Don Quixote...
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=J2jIHlLamcg

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Shopping at a Don Quixote really does drive me nuts. If it wasn't for the giddly feeling I get at seeing designer handbags, $5000 watches, childrens toys and sex toys in a 2 square meter area, I probably wouldn't go back.

Seriously, every time someone from the states visits me, I have to take them to one...just so they can see I'm not joking.

Hahaha, yes, I'm very familiar with "Don don don...Don Quixote~~~". I bought myself a Futon and a cheap blender there once. Also picked up some gag *adult* Octopus underwear there for a buddy's birthday gift. You know, similar those elephant boxers with a trunk for your...

Well, we all had a good laugh at the bar when I gave them to him.
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post #46 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 07:21 AM
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Curious, what video processor does Panasonic use in their AE3000 that requires them to have a game mode? Do they have a proprietary processors like Sony's Bravia Engine2?

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post #47 of 669 Old 11-14-2008, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by William Mapstone View Post

Curious, what video processor does Panasonic use in their AE3000 that requires them to have a game mode? Do they have a proprietary processors like Sony's Bravia Engine2?

I believe it uses a proprietary processor called the "Digital Clarity Processor 2".
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post #48 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 03:42 AM
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Hay Res,

Projector People have the Sanyo Z3000 up for pre-order. Not a bad price either, it's cheaper then the AE3000 with a mid December release date.






http://www.projectorpeople.com/proje...projectors.asp
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post #49 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 03:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

Hay Res,

Projector People have the Sanyo Z3000 up for pre-order. Not a bad price either, it's cheaper then the AE3000 with a mid December release date.






http://www.projectorpeople.com/proje...projectors.asp

Holy smokes!!! That is much better pricing than I was expecting. You can expect me to be giving first impresions on this one!
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post #50 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 04:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Holy smokes!!! That is much better pricing than I was expecting. You can expect me to be giving first impresions on this one!

Looks great.PC should have their review unit next week.Look forward to their impressions.
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post #51 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Holy smokes!!! That is much better pricing than I was expecting.

Man, do I envy you guys living in the states.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #52 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 08:38 AM
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Looking forward to reviews on this one. Tested a Z2000 in my home last year and really liked the overall image quality but the contrast was not a step up from my DC2 DLP machine so I passed. Curious how much improvement in this years model.

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post #53 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Holy smokes!!! That is much better pricing than I was expecting. You can expect me to be giving first impressions on this one!

Looking forward to your review.

After seeing that smoking price I'm considering getting the Sanyo and a DVDO Edge. Although every time I think about another projector I keep going back to the Epson 6500UB, it's a bit more but I really like the Epson.
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post #54 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 02:05 PM
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Is Sanyo's z3000 processor still pixelworks? I pray everyday that the Reon in the 6500ub can be 'shut down' so to speak.
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post #55 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 02:42 PM
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That is a very good price, but I figured as much, and almost a given considering what the Panny's are going for. If one is patient, I imagine these Z3000's will be dirt cheap once Sanyo starts with their usual lot of rebates and free bulbs. Great time to purchase a 1080P pj.

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post #56 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
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Is Sanyo's z3000 processor still pixelworks? I pray everyday that the Reon in the 6500ub can be 'shut down' so to speak.

I think as long as you leave the advance processing "off" in the 6500UB, processing delay will be minor. Unless you turn on all the precessing in the 6500UB I don't think the Reon will be an issue.
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post #57 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAC View Post

That is a very good price, but I figured as much, and almost a given considering what the Panny's are going for. If one is patient, I imagine these Z3000's will be dirt cheap once Sanyo starts with their usual lot of rebates and free bulbs. Great time to purchase a 1080P pj.

Hmm, with Pana buying Sanyo, how many of these will actually be produced I wonder.
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post #58 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, with Pana buying Sanyo, how many of these will actually be produced I wonder.

Most likely not enough. Sanyo already stated that they would only be manufacturing 1500 a month, and that was before the Panny buyout was an issue.
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post #59 of 669 Old 11-19-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Most likely not enough. Sanyo already stated that they would only be manufacturing 1500 a month, and that was before the Panny buyout was an issue.

I hope any merger that does occur means that any future Epson and Sanyo projectors both have user accessable ports for handling dust blobs.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #60 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I hope any merger that does occur means that any future Epson and Sanyo projectors both have user accessable ports for handling dust blobs.

Well, it's clear that Panasonic bought Sanyo for it's battery and Solar Power departments. I highly doubt Panasonic cares about Sanyo PJ features, or they would have incorporated them already.
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