Official Sanyo PLV-Z3000 120Hz 1080p thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Well, it's clear that Panasonic bought Sanyo for it's battery and Solar Power departments. I highly doubt Panasonic cares about Sanyo PJ features, or they would have incorporated them already.

Unless there's actually a patent that prevents Panasonic, Epson and other LCD projector manufacturers from including that feature. It would explain why Sanyo's still the only one that has that feature despite it working well.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #62 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post

Unless there's actually a patent that prevents Panasonic, Epson and other LCD projector manufacturers from including that feature. It would explain why Sanyo's still the only one that has that feature despite it working well.

You have a very good point, but it still seems odd that Panasonic didn't care to fix the dust blob issue when designing the AE3000. Even the new Epson has a better and larger filter.
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post #63 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 03:05 AM
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Unless there's actually a patent that prevents Panasonic

Since Panasonic bought Sanyo they've also bought their IP. Why do you think companies like Intel and Microsoft buy up other companies?
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post #64 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

Since Panasonic bought Sanyo they've also bought their IP. Why do you think companies like Intel and Microsoft buy up other companies?

Hopefully Panasonic gets the non-smoothscreen rights.
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post #65 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Hopefully Panasonic gets the non-smoothscreen rights.

True dat.


I still don't get the point of smooth screen on a 1080 projector. If you want to smooth out the picture a little just slightly defocus the lens.
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post #66 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 09:03 PM
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This PJ definitely has my interest. It could be the biggest bang for the buck 1080p. Was only set on the 6500UB, but with the apparent street price on the Z3000 so low I'm eyeballing it now. Also I like that it may be a bit quieter and put out less heat for my small room. Don't see that it supports vertical stretch for 2.40 CIH with anamorphic lens but since the the Z700 does I assume it will also. Don't think the 6500UB will but not sure. Looking forward to some reviews on both.
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post #67 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 10:36 PM
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I just wish this thing had more lumens, I wonder if it wil put out close to its rated output. From what I remember the other models were far less than their rated.
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post #68 of 669 Old 11-20-2008, 11:25 PM
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Actually, the Sanyo max lumens numbers seems to have been as, or more, relevant than the LCD competition if you're using the number to estimate Cinema mode or D65 lumens:

AE2000: (1500 → 370 [30%])

1080UB: (1600 → 470 [29%])

Z2000: (1200 → 400 [33%])

Now, granted, those aren't exact D65 calibration figures, and "about 400" and three separate AE2000 figures makes it a very unscientific comparison...but the Z2000 seemed to be pretty bright home theater projector considering it has a max. lumens rating so far below the Panny and Epson.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #69 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Time is creeping in. I wonder if the Z3000 or the Epson 6500 will hold true as the gamer's choice?
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post #70 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

Time is creeping in. I wonder if the Z3000 or the Epson 6500 will hold true as the gamer's choice?

These are the two I'm looking at also. I'm not a gamer though but worth noting is for us 2.40 CIH w/ anamorphic lens folks, the Z3000 will have the vertical stretch processing built in but the Epson 6500UB will require an outboard scaler.
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post #71 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip3kx07 View Post

True dat.


I still don't get the point of smooth screen on a 1080 projector. If you want to smooth out the picture a little just slightly defocus the lens.

As an owner of an AE2000 I find this topic very overblown. Have you viewed one of these PJ's?

It isn't as sharp as DLP, but it's much sharper than my previous Canon LCoS PJ. I have a 9' wide screen, and sit one width away. The picture is not blurry at all, and the pixels are nonexistent.

In saying all that, I will probably get an Epson 6500UB when they are available. It seems Epson always rates a bit higher than it's competition, which makes sense since they manufacture the panels.

Bottom line is all of these new 1080p PJ's are very good.

Art
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post #72 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adpayne View Post

As an owner of an AE2000 I find this topic very overblown. Have you viewed one of these PJ's?

Yes I have, and Yes smooth screen on the AE2000 is a deal breaker for me. I have not seen the AE3000 yet, the smooth screen filter was reduced to give a sharper image. From the screen shots I have seen posted from the AE3000 the image does look sharper So I would probably be able to live with it, but again SDE is not a problem for me. I wish Panasonic did not have smooth screen on there 1080p projectors, it not needed IMO.
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post #73 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 10:30 PM
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By delivering the Z3000 so late, Sanyo is losing Christmas sales to other manufacturers. I don't understand why it would do that.
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post #74 of 669 Old 11-25-2008, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Beta Tester View Post

By delivering the Z3000 so late, Sanyo is losing Christmas sales to other manufacturers. I don't understand why it would do that.

It's interesting that with the D7/C2Fine panels, Panasonic was able to get the AE3000 out as fast as they did. The Z3000 just came out here in Japan, and the TW4000 is coming out Friday. The TW4000 is an obvious redesign (completely different from the TW1000/TW2000) and the AE3000 looks almost identical to the AE2000 (on the outside).

It could be that the new optical compensating plate is a sign that, like the TW4000, the Z3000 has gone through a bigger revision than the AE3000, which is why these two markets are taking longer to get to market? SWAG, but the best guess I've got.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #75 of 669 Old 11-26-2008, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteer01 View Post

It's interesting that with the D7/C2Fine panels, Panasonic was able to get the AE3000 out as fast as they did. The Z3000 just came out here in Japan, and the TW4000 is coming out Friday. The TW4000 is an obvious redesign (completely different from the TW1000/TW2000) and the AE3000 looks almost identical to the AE2000 (on the outside).

It could be that the new optical compensating plate is a sign that, like the TW4000, the Z3000 has gone through a bigger revision than the AE3000, which is why these two markets are taking longer to get to market? SWAG, but the best guess I've got.

Not to repeat my previous post in this thread but Mitsubishi, Epson, Panasonic and Sanyo all have models with the extra polarization plate, and several without (as lower contrast 1080p models).
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post #76 of 669 Old 11-26-2008, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sethk View Post

Not to repeat my previous post in this thread but Mitsubishi, Epson, Panasonic and Sanyo all have models with the extra polarization plate, and several without (as lower contrast 1080p models).

Oops.

If that's the case, I don't really understand why Panasonic was able to get their AE3000 out so much faster than both Sanyo and Epson.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #77 of 669 Old 11-27-2008, 12:41 PM
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Of all the projectors, I'm now interested in the Z3000 the most. Hopefully Sanyo brings this out cheap so us gamers get what we need!

=Tommy v2=
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post #78 of 669 Old 11-27-2008, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

Of all the projectors, I'm now interested in the Z3000 the most. Hopefully Sanyo brings this out cheap so us gamers get what we need!

Well, it's got the AE3000 pricing beat.
http://www.projectorpeople.com/proje...yo%20PLV-Z3000


It's looking like the Sanyo Z3000 is gamer's 120Hz upgrade to the Epson1080UB, Since the Epson 6500UB will probably only bypass the Reon through VGA.


Epson made the right move, IMO, to go with the Reon. I mean, the Reon will give better results for scaling SD movies/TV for people who aren't game enthusiasts. I'm just thankful that there is a new projector with great black levels and 120Hz frame interpolation that has not the most powerful, but fastest video processing that caters to us gamer folk, thanks to Sanyo's Pixelworks DNX Z3000 offering.


For kicks, I'm also very interested to test the lag results with Pixelworks frame interpolation enabled. This would be the first time it has ever been up to the task. How will a fast processor handle frame interpolation?
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post #79 of 669 Old 11-27-2008, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm definitely going to order the Sanyo PLV-Z3000.

Does anyone know if Projector People charges for pre orders at checkout, or do they wait to charge you until the unit ships?
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post #80 of 669 Old 11-27-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

I'm definitely going to order the Sanyo PLV-Z3000.

Does anyone know if Projector People charges for pre orders at checkout, or do they wait to charge you until the unit ships?

They charge you when the stock arrives.

For the AE3000 pre-orders Projector People were charging people when the AE3000 shipment was on its why to them so they could turn them around the same day.
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post #81 of 669 Old 11-28-2008, 07:22 AM
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I fully expect Pixelworks to deliver big time on this projector. I shall wait for a small rebate or free lamp, and then I will grab this! The price is very attractive, especially if the 6500 Epson is $2999 for similar (or worse for gaming) results.

=Tommy v2=
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post #82 of 669 Old 11-28-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

For kicks, I'm also very interested to test the lag results with Pixelworks frame interpolation enabled. This would be the first time it has ever been up to the task. How will a fast processor handle frame interpolation?

You probably saw the pics already of the TW4000 with and without frame interpolation on:
http://flickr.com/photos/peteer01/se...7610292661868/

Honestly, while that's not a big difference, having it on/off was a tangible difference. I wouldn't play anything where reflexes were important with frame interpolation on. For something like Rhythm Games, RPGs or Action/Adventure games, it could really help the game look smooth, and you could adapt to any extra lag...but for FPS, sports and fighting games, I wouldn't use any frame interpolation, regardless of the processor, as it has to wait for two frames before it's able to create the middle frame, no matter how fast the actual frame creation is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

I'm definitely going to order the Sanyo PLV-Z3000.

Congrats, congrats! Sounds like we both ordered the cheaper of the Epson/Sanyo projector choice, we just ended up with different models.

I'm definitely looking forward to your review on this.

Enjoying my second TW4000 and my new screen.
As my wife said, "Wow, it really does look a lot better...and if I think that way, imagine how you must think it looks!"
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post #83 of 669 Old 11-28-2008, 02:10 PM
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Can anyone confirm the PC refresh rate would be 120hz( anyone knows the resolution and refresh list for this projector, for VGA and HDMI)?
(any links on specifications where this could be confirmed)?

I'm really looking forward to Nvidia Stereo 3D technology (saw it on Nvision 08). Great with monitor, but with projector it would be REALLY big.
Today I watched Bolt in 3D and can tell this - in theater 3d effect is a bit limited (depth), but in Nvidia driver you can set 3D depth, and 22'' monitor transforms to window, but with my current setup (7 feet wide screen) it will be a wall to 3D...
So I'm waiting for the projector, hope z3000 could be the one...
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post #84 of 669 Old 11-28-2008, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vaulter View Post

Can anyone confirm the PC refresh rate would be 120hz( anyone knows the resolution and refresh list for this projector, for VGA and HDMI)?
(any links on specifications where this could be confirmed)?

I'm really looking forward to Nvidia Stereo 3D technology (saw it on Nvision 08). Great with monitor, but with projector it would be REALLY big.
Today I watched Bolt in 3D and can tell this - in theater 3d effect is a bit limited (depth), but in Nvidia driver you can set 3D depth, and 22'' monitor transforms to window, but with my current setup (7 feet wide screen) it will be a wall to 3D...
So I'm waiting for the projector, hope z3000 could be the one...

I imagine that, like the vast majority of 120Hz displays, the Z3000 most likely will accept [email protected], not 120Hz.

I suspect that 3D displays would be marketed as such. Look before you leap.
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post #85 of 669 Old 11-28-2008, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResOGlas View Post

I imagine that, like the vast majority of 120Hz displays, the Z3000 most likely will accept [email protected], not 120Hz.

I suspect that 3D displays would be marketed as such. Look before you leap.

That is the advantage of Nvidia 3D stereo, the shutter glasses are good for any 120hz and up devices, unlike Zalman Trimon solution (Directed polarization, needs a special coating on display). Samsung has the similar tech, but it would probably cost more than this projector...

I understand that this market is certain nishe but after the experience with the glasses it could be a great addition (and upgrade point, today I own Z5) to this possibly very balanced projector.

That is why I'm curious about the specs.
Thanks for the comment.
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post #86 of 669 Old 11-29-2008, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Woot! Placed my order at Projector People.

Since Sanyo will only have 1500 of them at launch, who knows how many will be allocated to the US? Probably not too many, since they take a HUGE hit on profit by selling it here when it retails for the equivalent $4165US for Japan's street price!

The Sanyo Z3000 is over 40% cheaper in the United States.
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post #87 of 669 Old 11-29-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaulter View Post

That is the advantage of Nvidia 3D stereo, the shutter glasses are good for any 120hz and up devices, unlike Zalman Trimon solution (Directed polarization, needs a special coating on display). Samsung has the similar tech, but it would probably cost more than this projector...

I understand that this market is certain nishe but after the experience with the glasses it could be a great addition (and upgrade point, today I own Z5) to this possibly very balanced projector.

That is why I'm curious about the specs.
Thanks for the comment.

I don't know much about this 3D technology, so when you say any 120Hz will work, are saying all the pjs that have 120hz will be able to display 3D and those that don't won't? I'd hate to buy a none 120hz pj and have to upgrade in a couple years just to watch 3D when it comes available.
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post #88 of 669 Old 11-29-2008, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by d james View Post

I don't know much about this 3D technology, so when you say any 120Hz will work, are saying all the pjs that have 120hz will be able to display 3D and those that don't won't? I'd hate to buy a none 120hz pj and have to upgrade in a couple years just to watch 3D when it comes available.

I don't think the details are worked out yet, but I think it's more likely 1080p60 will be used for stereo (two x 30Hz). 30Hz is OK for movies since they are only filmed at 24Hz today.
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post #89 of 669 Old 11-29-2008, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I don't think the details are worked out yet, but I think it's more likely 1080p60 will be used for stereo (two x 30Hz). 30Hz is OK for movies since they are only filmed at 24Hz today.

Just to clarify - it's essential that any display method is good for 3D (LCD, DLP, CRT both TV's and PJ). They just have to have PC refresh rate support of 120hz and more, When you are talking about 24hz, it's a very different story to 24 frame/s.
The technology of shutter glasses (the ones in 3D cinema, the example is the latest Disney's Bolt and Nvidia tech for games, the ones that makes Fallout 3 to look sooo good with glasses) are blocking each eye with certain frequency thus forming a 3d picture. (it is better explained on wiki).
Any device that will display PC resolution (both for 3d movies and 3d games you need pc) with 120hz refresh rate will be good (as of today you have number of DLP devices capable of this, several LCD monitors coming soon (jan), and hopefully some projectors (there are some 5k$ DLP, which are not very exciting for me) )
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post #90 of 669 Old 11-29-2008, 05:20 PM
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I'm still not sure why you need 120Hz. If we're going to see 3D movies on Blu-ray in the fairly near future they will probably have to be encoded as 1080p60, so that it can work within the current spec. with only the minimum changes to Blu-ray players. I could be wrong but I don't think the movie industry is too interested in PCs, and 3D movies will have to work with current Blu-ray technology, or with only very minor changes to it.
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